AMD FSR3 Hands-On: Promising Image Quality, But There Are Problems - DF First Look 

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​@@Tasteless_Uncleyou're a hero

@@Tasteless_Uncle 👑

@@Tasteless_Uncle thanks

Rich is a treasure for the gaming press

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Love your podcast! 🤟

hahahah that was great, loved his laugh.

Sounded like he said Sporefoken to me. New Spore game confirmed!

haha he knew he said that too, he chuckled mid sentence^

probably not worth since scRGB is rare in PC games i think

Only game I've seen that has scrgb is CP2077

@@chettmanly7451 Mass Effect: Andromeda supports it and it looks stunning. Limited to 1080p and 4K resolutions but the HDR is incredible.

@@geoffreybassett6741 yay, 2 games in 10 years lifespan. Great.

We at least got a "we will look into it" from nvidia in the dlss 3.5 panel Alex hosted a couple weeks ago.

Hardware Unboxed is also right up there. And they are much more scathing of FSR 3. Was the same when DLSS came out I found. And they were fully vindicated when DLSS eventually got its act together. But I love both channels and even listen to both podcasts.

Odd, I thought Daniel owens and hub did a pretty good job. I didn't learn anything new here but I am glad to still get another opinion.

WE WUZ KNIGHT CAPTAIN N SHIT!

@@formulaic78 I found their coverage to be a bit sensational, perhaps it's the thumbnail.

Glad it's Richard that did it and not Alex, otherwise he would be talking more about DLSS than FSR lol.

It's definitely undercooked but the fact it's undercooked and matching a hardware solution in most areas is Incredible in my opinion! If they work out the Vrr and Vsync bugs, it will be perfect!

@@LTNetjak yeah but its not great because of the low base fps.

Do you think you'll be using fsr upscaling + frame gen over a more agressive dlss?

maybe not on most cases but still it's neat to have it, and if it improves with time it could be great.

Yes, that is what we all want, since Nvidia won't do the same.

I'm surprised AMD hasn't got the modified FSR2 code from Hello Games to incorporate into the main GPUOpen code. NMS on switch has practically no upscale shimmering at all at an incredibly low 504P resolution.

Honestly, I'm surprised how well the frame gen is working for a preview, it's likely only going to get better with time. As for the upscaling of FSR 3, it doesn't look like there are any improvements over FSR 2, which is a shame, but I suspect for most gamers, it won't matter. The real game changer here is that the tech works and it works well on current gen, last gen and going on reports online, it looks like it works well on third gen cards, if that continues over many games, that bolds well for it working on the current consoles, that's the game changer in that we could have one tech that runs well on a wide range of PC hardware and works on consoles. It basically means that developers could give any 60fps game on consoles a 120fps option, assuming there's no big overheads on console hardware over how it's done on the PC. Also as Dark said, it would be great if AMD has access to what the developers did with No Man's Sky, it's clearly delivering much better results than the standard FSR does at low resolutions, and it's likely the standard FSR could do the same and I do wonder what custom job they've done to get such good results at such a low resolution.

Well. They can't. Because they have no expertise in machine learning and their hardware lacks the necessary components. More or less.

@@Dark-qx8rk Technically I doubt Hello Games changed the code of FSR upscaling. I think they more carefully considered where in their render pipeline they upscale which layers of the final image. In the very long interview with nVidia they talked about that for DLSS integration as well. They said that integration is the make or break, not the core technology itself. Switching around the entry point of upscale can dramatically improve the visual quality. But that is a "per game" solution and needs testing, fiddling, depends on the engine used etc. so a lot of human experimentation, that takes a lot of time, which most games don't have.

@@W4ldgeist And that's why DLSS works so well. The AI function takes care of a lot of that tuning.

He also chuckled some seconds later.

Probably $0.45

If you actually watched the video no it won't. It still has the responsiveness of whatever frame rate the game natively runs at on your system. So if your system can only run the game at 20fps and it runs at 60 with fsr 3 it's still going to respond the same as a game at 20fps it will just look smoother. The controls will feel janky is basically the long and short of it. Still a cool technology though.

@@SirJonHarringtonBlumpkinThe8th Well in this case the segmentation is pretty clear, no Anti Lag+ and well the 7900 XTX is just faster.

@@TylerMBuller12 No, a game that runs at 20fps could be at 40fps maximum anyway. That maximum framegen can do is doubling it, both AMD and NVIDIA. So in the end you want an absolute minimum of probably like 30-40fps anyway, ich nicht bei _playable_ with FG.

AI upscaling will really change the landscape. Even for retro gaming. Soon we'll have very robust upscaling for old 2D titles. And the beauty of it is that many already ran on 60fps, good candidates for frame generation (minus the motion vectors).

@@NotAnAlchemist_Ed I am really excited about that after learning about that technology.

​@@NotAnAlchemist_Edis there any 2D game AI upscaled greatly?

@@MrVoland44 not yet that I know of

Wouldn't say this generation is a proving ground for those technologies, but that they are now mature enough to see broad usage. - We are already at the third generation of NVIDIA GPUs with ray tracing support. Hardware performance has _massively_ increased and software techniques like denoising algorithms got much more advanced, allowing the jump from hybrid rendering to full ray tracing / path tracing even in a complex open world game like Cyberpunk. - Frame generation might be new for games, but it has been there for at least 15 years, when WinDVD and PowerDVD already implemented real-time FG into their player software, and virtually every TV sold over the last 10 years has it implemented in hardware. Means there were already well known and decently optimized algorithms for optical flow detection and interpolation available that NVIDIA and AMD "just" had to make run well with games. - Upscaling kinda was always there, even some 1280p LCD monitor from 2002 had to somehow upscale 600p input to fill the screen, which it usually did using awful bilinear filtering. Remember the PS3 era when almost no games were rendered at actual 1080p and looked awfully blurry. The next big step was TAA (first used in Ryse: Son Of Rome by Crytek on the Xbox One in 2013), which by its very principle also allows much better upscaling by combining the data of several frames, which is a bit like doing super sampling, but distributed over time. I'd call this the second generation of upscaling and put FSR into it, which basically is just a relatively good implementation of TAA. DLSS however is already 3rd gen, as it basically works like TAA, but does the how-to-combine-data-from-several-frames-into-a-new-one step using a neural network that is trained on the difference between low-res and high-res pictures, instead of using a hand-crafted algorithm, which provides far better results with almost perfect temporal stability. You see, there already has been huge progress and we're far from the proof-of-concept stadium.

God damnit it's all I can focus on every time it's there

I saw your comment before watching and it still got me once even though it was like 8x the size of my cursor.

You need at least 50 to 60 fps to see good results, same thing as nvidia frame gen but they have better latency reduction with reflex.

Could be a game changer for consoles and games that target 60fps, bumping it up to 120fps. From what people are saying online, it looks like it runs well on 5700xt class of gpu's, if so, it likely can run on the current gen consoles.

​@user-mw4wq3ci3d people clearly don't understand that this technique is for high end cards, it makes no sense to use on low end cards.

@@brzimtrco6142 Facts I see alot of confused people even though digital foundry explained it perfectly. If you are getting 20fps in a game it's still going to feel like shit with frame gen.

@TylerMBuller12 exactly, this tech, especially fsr3 since it uses vsync and locks you fps, is meant to be used on a high refresh rate panel. If you have one, you most likely have a high-end gpu. Imagine using fsr 3, and playing with fake frames with you fps locked at 60fps, that isn't nice, let alone going from 20fps.

the monitor also influence the VRR quality, I got a LG 27GR93u and it does VRR miles away better than my other lg 27gl850

4k 120*, that's why they're running it at half speed since youtube only supports 4k 60.

No, definitely not. LFC just means that the graphics driver will make sure to always stay inside the VRR window by doubling frames if necessary. So if you are at 40 fps and that's below the VRR window, your screen will actually receive 80 fps (with every other frame being identical to the one before), which the game mode overlay of my LG TV indeed does report. As mentioned in the video, VRR currently doesn't work _at all_ as soon as FSR FG is enabled. The GPU just sends out whatever the screen's maximum refresh rate is, and distributes the actually available frames in a terribly bad way that becomes worse the lower the frame rate gets. Say you have a 120 Hz screen and the game runs with 110 Hz, then 10 frames per second will be displayed for two refreshes, which introduces stuttering, but is barely noticeable due to the small differences. When only reaching 60 fps though, FSR FG will not distribute them evenly by sending out each frame for two refreshes, but some frames for only one and others for three refreshes. In other words: Even when the actual frame rate would fit perfectly into the display's refresh cycles, the frame pacing is completely broken and looks super stuttery, which becomes worse the lower the frame rate gets.

DLSS 3 is not possible on older cards. Their solution is hardware based. It's a weirdly persistent conspiracy, suggesting that they withheld 3.0 from pre-4000 series cards on purpose.

I want them to as well but I have my doubts, like unless fsr FG is hands down the better FG tech then I feel like Nvidia will hold off, because atleast to me it would make sense that if people on their hardware are using an essentially inferior version of DLSS FG.Then it’s still a small reason for them to want to upgrade.

DLSS FG will never be released on older cards. The shitstorm would be huge

@@kylerclarke2689I don’t really know much about the technical side of how it works but I can’t say it’s unfounded, for the longest time they also held off RTX Voice on older cards and claimed it was necessary. maybe it would have a larger performance impact on older cards, but I just know that i was able to glitch it out to work on my 10 series at the time and the benefits of it working far outweighed any negatives that might have come at the cost of performance, especially if i was playing a game that wasn’t gpu demanding.

pass

Im guessing it's still miles away from DLSS, but consoles need a W here.

@@phant0mdummyyes FSR sucks so far still

So I've been running tests, try this. Turn the in game Vsync Off and turn on the driver Vsync on the Nvidia or AMD panel depending on the card you're using. Then go in to the game turn on FSR+FG check your frame rate and lock what you see on average on RTSS. So if you're getting say 90 fps with FG, lock it at 80 to compensate for fps drops so that the 1% lows remain consistent. The reason for that is locking your Framerate on RTSS will bring the 1% lows up to par with your real time fps. For example if you you're getting 100 fps your 1% lows will be around 55 with FG on, locking that fps in RTSS will bring the lows up to 90+ close to your real time fps. It will feel and look infinitely smoother and get rid of the judders till AMD fixes it. If your frames with FG on are higher than the refresh rate of your monitor then just lock them to the refresh of your monitor in RTSS so in your case, 60. But always no matter what have the driver level Vsync On and in game Vsync Off, the in game one introduces judders for some reason.

Frame gen on a 60hz monitor is pointless

​@@constantinesoldatosGood tips! Capping your frame rate to a comfortable figure *under* your average FPS is an underrated way of achieving smooth frame times, so it's interesting to hear the same method working well in a frame-gen scenario.

​@@justlamb While I do get your point (after all, 60hz is the pleb refresh rate), I’d argue using frame gen to get a stable 60fps would result in a vastly superior gaming experience compared to say….an unstable 45fps. But seriously @ whoever is reading this: if you’re still using 60hz by choice, you’re doing yourself a disservice. Even simple things like moving the mouse around on your desktop is impressive on a 100hz+ display. It does make a difference. My eyes legitimately begin feeling strained if I have to use a 60hz display for an extended period of time. Doesn’t happen on my 120hz display. Next upgrade is going to be minimum 240hz, possibly 360hz, depending on what the Ultrawide market looks like.

@@I_enjoy_some_things well I get your point. My Legion5 has a 165Hz display, while my workstation is linked to 2 24" monitors @60Hz. I won't replace them just for the mouse to move "smoother", that's just not going to happen. I'm ALWAYS locking my game FPS to 60, because I just don't need more - also it helps to keep a high image quality, since I can use downsampling to the upscalers to get the best visuals for that 24" 60Hz

DF showed those frames for DLSS 3 bcz they were paid really well by nvidea but here no money 😊

I would like to know this as well. I'm wondering if I could record my monitor in slow motion while using fsr 3 to catch the fake frame

He said that would be what Alex does

@@puppy.shorts Surely if they were paid off they would not expose the most unflattering and unrepresentative way of viewing the frames? Please try

That's actually a really good idea! While it would make a bit of a wrong impression (as was said in the video, frame generation artifacts are much less noticeable due to every other frame being a "real" one), it would allow to judge the actual interpolation quality much better.

Good to know!

Sorry cyberpunk is nvidia playground, fsr3 must wait 😉

They can't do that Cyberpunk is Nvidias game, but no one cared or threw a hissy over that like starfield and AMDs mole hill

@@marcinkarpiuk7797 cyberpunk was one of "sponsoring" games for FSR 3 during AMD conference, lol...come on 😂

@@Gravy1255 lol, you haven't see AMD FSR3 conference then...CP was one of the games announced to support FSR3...When a game is sponsored by NVIDIA all other techs are welcome (CP supports also XeSS)...AMD on the other side, well...

@Prisoner_ksc2-303 my point still stands throughout GPU history Nvidia has notoriously locked things up and made other GPUs second class citizens. Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 come to mind.

because its the same?

what would "Nvidia build" even entail?, it's just the GPU unless you actually have parts that are incompatible with a Amd GPU.

@@carpelunam Shit, I'm not sure. I'm relatively new to owning a gaming PC. Before this one, I was doing all of my "PC gaming" through Nvidia's GeForce Now. I've just heard PC Gamers refer to their PCs as a Nvidia PC or an AMD PC whenever answering questions about "their build." They always start off with the GPU, so I figured that was the crux of their build. 🤷🏾‍♂️

@@BrotherKnowledge. It usually is how people say it, idk what the other guy is talking about. Especially since you’re talking about AMD/Nvidia tech, saying Nvidia build is totally fine. The other parts of your computer don’t matter in your comment anyways.

@@-Burb Appreciate that, man. Thank you.

Why dont you upscale.? Dlss 2 can look better than native and run quieter and cooler

Agreed. DF take is much better than HUB in this instance, which surprised me. Tim seems out of sync (no pun intended) on this one.

@@AMD718 Tim said the same thing as Rich here. I dont understand what was said different? He was basically disappointed with all the caveats of using FSR3. The vsync stutter and all that. As the first look, I think the stuttering would obviously standout. I am sure Alex will talk more about it when he looks in depth. As impressive as it is, its not as refined as people hoped.

HUB did a way better job at showing the substantial differences in artifacts on large moving objects (weapon swap) and thin lines (wires), but also in UI where decoupling gave AMD a big advantage instead. From this review, it instead sounded like image quality was somehow equivalent.

@@Lishtenbird The HUB video was a deep dive, the DF video is first look that paints FSR3 in the most positive light possible. The deep dive of DF are going to talk about the same thing as HUB video did. I am not seeing any difference in the take aways of the video honestly.

:O

But AL+ is shown to cut latency by almost half without FG?

​@@trivolous28that's generous. It's significant sometimes and marginal elsewhere.

It's a joke, he hasn't forgotten it... He has said it multiple times over on DF direct. Same as tloup1

all that anime bounce :)

For that to actually do anything meaningful, they need to unlock the 60FPS first and allow us to play at 120FPS MINIMUM. Still stupid to lock it to 60 when Mods have unlocked it to 120 almost immediately after launch.

If it had anything higher than 60fps available it might make some sense

​@@FruchtiThe real kicker is how the devs added a 120fps option, but only for mobile.

@@DarkNia64 specifically iPhones with A16 and iPads with M1 chips and newer, i'm using the fps unlock mod like forever the game is badly optimized hardly used 50% of my gpu

Good luck with that on laptops with Optimus... You have to add both resolutions to both active GPUs, but then still the driver reverts to the default refresh rate when switching from integrated to dedicated graphics. If they didn't completely disable VRR you could have just locked fps and get desired refresh rate automatically...

"You will be happy with the result." I don't think I'm gonna be happy with a base frame rate of 35-40fps.

Ha! That's actually a really good idea! I didn't think of that even though I already used to play Cyberpunk with locked 50 before I had a VRR display.

@@NeovanGoth Same here :).

@@DeadLead Well, good for them, but for a lot of PC gamers 60fps is the minimum and it has been for many years.

And this is just their first-impressions.

Didn't nvidia state that dlss 3.5 will reach across all rtx cards?

@@2Guys1ControllerShow it's just for ray tracing though

@@ShadowOfNexxus that's not what I remember, I'll see if I can find a source.

It's good to see but they do have some incentive to do it because of the consoles. If they can get it working well for sub 60fps performance it will be great for this generation and only help AMD secure future deals for console APUs. And it will be great for my trusty Steam Deck😄

@@2Guys1ControllerShow Nvidia posted a chart saying only ray reconstruction and upscaling were available to cards below the 40 series.

Improving the upscaling part of FSR would be great too. I don't know if it's possible to get FSR 3 working with DLSS, due to its closed nature. Xess perhaps.

Yes. FSR way oversharpens the image in Immortals of Aveum. I know some people like this but I personally don't like oversharpened images, it makes things look grainy. Some games give you a slider to adjust sharpness but not here as far as Im aware.

​@@TerraWareThere is a sharpness slider, but even at 0 FSR 2 looks to be using lots of sharpening. 🤔

AMD has one of the best sharpeners around. If you want to try it, AMD CAS sharpening can be added to any game using reshade.

@@Dark-qx8rk Even the best sharpening doesn't look good when it oversharpens. Neither does ANY other post processing option when applied to extremity.

Asked on Twitter as well and was reminded about CAS and that the 3.x versions of DLSS don't have any sharpening anymore. Thanks for the replies everyone. Personally I was kind of surprised at how it looked here, at least on RU-vid it doesn't present the same ringing artifacts you associate with over sharpened images.

This still could be achieved in addition to FG. Just google "Late-Latching" (calculating the final view matrix from camera movement (mouse/stick) directly on the GPU when executing the first draw call of a frame)

It really doesn't feel like it's running double the framerate though. For me personally, the lag is even more noticeable when I run DLSS 3.5 versus not running it. It's probably about the same latency for both, but since my eyes are seeing more frames but my input registration is lagging, it actually feels worse. I'm not sold on the tech yet outside of very-limited interaction scenarios or as a crutch for streaming smoother looking content.

just download forspoken demo and try for yourself. I also have 3070 and I really disappointed, it felt so laggy/jaggy I don't know how to describe in words. I prefer stabile low fps with good frametime instead of this thing. I never tried dlss by the way. note: tried everything, vsync on/off, cap frametime with rtss to max I can get with fsr3-g nothing works

​@@WhiteshadeForkspoken actually has a bad FSR3 implementation at least compared to IOA. Not very surprising really, game's a shit show

FSR 3 does not improve the image only the FPS, genius. Just like DLSS, they were technologies with room for improvement, so give them time to mature.

at one point DLSS was also considered "rubbish" and FSR2 also looked like shit originally all of these things take time, so calling progressive tech useless is really silly

@@awaken6711 Read my comment. I'm not talking about FSR3 frame generation I'm talking about FSR3 AA (which is supposed to compete with DLAA)

Damn, 2gb GPU? Is it a 2gb gtx 1050?

@@siyzerix - Lonovo IdeaPad 3 256GB SSD laptop with a AMD Ryzen 5 5500U unified graphics SOC. 1080p gaming and often 900p or 720p if it's the horribly optimized game Way Of The Hunter.

@@vanceg4901 I ain't too sure if FSR 3 will help the 5500u that much. Because FSR 3 requires a good base frame rate to be of any real use.

Won't run better sorry, you need solid frames to begin with

@@Broodjemetbeleg - Only older games like Battlefield 4 and Aliens Colonial Marines have solid 60 fps. Games like Sniper Elite 5 around 40 fps. Quake II Remastered is a new game and runs solid 60 fps, but guess that doesn't count.

Why would them though. XESS I could understand as it is vendor agnostic, but making it work with DLSS would mean making an effort specifically to support something that would only benefit users of your competing vendor. It could also be interpreted as a lack of confidence on their own scaler. I understand they are going for a friendly approach to garner reputation, but doing something that exclusively benefits Nvidia users seems like too much.

Why doesn't Nvidia just open up DLSS to not Nvidia cards??? Quit asking stupid questions

If u hv nvidia card ask ur master to enable FG for ur older cards. Amd has no obligation to satisfy ngreedia fans. Stop being foolish

Yeah, that's exactly what they talk about at 1:28

Clearly you haven't played it...FG with pathtracing/ray reconstruction actually reduces latency. I'm 60 hrs into a Phantom Liberty run entirely in overdrive mode and it's perfect...sits around 80 fps in most spots and feels buttery smooth