As we have been asked quite a few times about buying one of these in comments and emails - we checked with AMD PR this morning, and the sales launch is 2pm 31st January GMT. Hopefully if people are interested you will see them popping up shortly.
Hello, sir i saw some other tests of this APU and they seemed to have better results and they reached 130W power usage in witcher3. Maybe with significantly more efficient cooling and Ryzen master optimisations/boost it could work faster?
@@Maxverstappenracing-dz3pt AHH ok ,,, new twist from the AMD fan-shills. I will never forget the shills starting on the 5700g saying it would be about as fast as a rtx 2080 :)
3:15 I gave up the ITX dream when I finally upgraded in the post-covid era, when prices started to going down at the end of 2022. Pricing of everything ITX is outrageous, the cases, the PSUs, the mobos. So what I did? I went the Micro-ATX route. Everything is cheaper and easier to find, not to mention there are a lot more options. All of that if you can endure a case 50% bigger. I did it and it has been a blessing. Not only thermals are much improved, maintenance is way easier, also you don't need to perform miracles in cable management.
@@theonlyredspecial Cheap stuff I could buy at the time, a Ryzen 5 5600 in a cheap A520 mobo, and a RX 6600. It was a great upgrade from the i7 3770k I was already planing to retire, when covid made prices skyrocket... Those were 2 long years holding myself back to not pay for overpriced hardware. The case is a "cube" layout from a generic manufacturer. The mobo stays horizontal (no GPU sagging), PSU stays out of the way bellow it. The front is mesh, just two 120mm frontal fans provide great thermals. And the whole thing is about 30cm/1 foot on all sides.
I wonder if the GPU can be clocked up seeing that the base am5 socket supports 170watt. APUs are the future of gaming. In fact I would say they already are used by most casual gamers.
@@Menalix to clear up things.. all heat generation is power consumption. 40watt is both 40watt of power consumed and 40watt of heat exhausted. Why would an APU idle at 40watt? Are you referring to AMD GPUs in general? I believe they solved the high idle issue on rdna 3. In general AMD CPUs idle as efficient as Intels have recently. (Except Intels tiny background cores they recently used in meteor lake which did not come to desktop)
@@christophermullins7163 Idk why a system with a 8700G idles at 41-watt, it's youtuber "hardware unboxed"'s numbers. I hope some more will test it. Because ye I thought as well RDNA 3 had fixed it, 7940HS mini pc's idles at 4-watt. So I had expected 8700G to be a bit more, but not 10x more. My old i7-8700+1080ti build idles at 38w, so quite dissapointed if a 8700G system truly idles at 41-watt
@@christophermullins7163 no, he is referring to the CPU idle power. Even on 7000 and 5000 series the Ryzens idle at a much wattage value then intel making intel more power efficient for casual users (
Thats quite impressive based on the opening sequence to be fair. would be ideal for a younger gamer who was happy with decent IQ but not best at 1080p. I think 1080p is still the most popular gaming res on desktop
Average joe: "I'm not good at this game" Leo: "It would seem my brain recalibrated and I adjusted my gameplay slightly to suit the APU ...." Just pulling your leg Leo, great review cheers.
I think if anyone is playing Dark Souls for many years, they will always notice gamers like Leo struggling on camera. I never play Dark Souls with my friend nearby,. he can basically beat them all without dying. its quite competitive.
Good review thanks. It's not for me, still going with my trusty 5700 XT and R5 3600 - no doubt APUs are in for a big couple of years ahead in the handheld market though, some benchmarks versus the Steam Deck or ROG Ally would have been really interesting
in GPU limited games the 8700G should be near identical to the Ally and LeGo since the 780M in the 8700G is the same GPU as the one in the Z1 Extreme, only differences would be from RAM or Thermals.
Looks like brill setup for a quiet pc for music production. If DAW software you use is updated to support these new CPUs. Thanks for the review. I'm still impressed by the improvements from 5000G series. What these new CPUs can now do at 1080p.
@@roythunderplump Ah, well I wasn't saying you're wrong, I was just curious as to your thinking. I'm looking at building a PC for music right now, hence my curiosity. I like the chip I mentioned because it's got high performance, low energy consumption (so lower noise compared with the cheaper and faster Intel alternatives). The on-chip graphics are just okay for browsers and Daws though, not for games. If or when GPUs can be used for plugins, my plan is to add a separate card. If you want to do music _and_ play games, this looks like a good solution, albeit a bit less beastly in the CPU department if you intend on running lots of Divas and convolution reverbs etc. Anyway, I'm still just mulling it over.
@@mattsmith1440 Right, the more faster cores. You can do more without crashing audio crackle. At the added cost of extra power draw, more expensive silent case and fans to reduce noise and keep cool.
It truly is a fantastic chip - I'm not knocking it's abilities at all.... But at that price - sorry AMD, I can think of a few different combo's that would cost less and perform a good amount better.
@@Grim_Prospects In asia we have an Internet Cafe business with gaming I think this amd cpu is the best for business. Its power efficient and easy to maintain.
This APU will shine in cheap SFF build under 7 litres that would be nice to look at, will do your desktop applications effectively, and will do light gaming (think living room pc). Every other application you better off with cpu + gpu.
Nobody is going to make a 14600K build with a 6500XT or equivalent. You want to put there at least a 4060, even a 4070 in FHD and for 2K/4K you can practically put any GPU in there up to a 4090. So. This isn't stretching a 800$ build to 1000$ build. This is either getting a 800$ build today, that can kinda game, and than after a few months, after you got the money for the GPU of your choice, which you're going to keep for a couple of years at least, you drop in the GPU which is right for you. Or having to spend 1200$ up to 3000$. Also. The cost of this iGPU is literally the difference in cost between a 13400f/7700 and 8700G. Which is 50$. What other GPU can you buy from a shop for 50$? A GT710. And in the long run, those extra 50$ spent, are also insurance. Insurance in case something happens to ur GPU, you have something to fall back on, even if you turn down Settings. Also. You tested medium and Ultra Settings. That's where the iGPUs have problems. You should try testing in 720p Low. Or 1080p Low with Upscaling from 720p. The gap becomes considerably smaller when not running into bandwidth limitations.
@@pranze3484 i went 7600 because somebody is going to argue "the upgrade path" and "platform longevity," but yes, am4, intel 12th gen would be better options
@@pranze3484 twice the FPS, you reckon? isnt it using a lot more power and making a lot more noise too? I mean im not adovating an APU, just saying, maybe there is a market for these.
@@powermaster5004 it may use more noise & power but you get higher quality settings and fps. Even consoles use more noise/power but they do 4k and raytracing. And is a 3600 and rx6600 at about 175 watts that bad? There may be a market for these APUs, but as far as gaming, I figure it's a very small use case.
that apu/cpu are without some point for an average person which wants solid gaming because you will need again descrete gpu so for 330$/euro/pounds its better to buy something like r5 5600+ rx 6600 or arc 750 or used 6700xt
When i was 17 and driving my 88 prelude thats been modded to be esspecially performant in the corners people would say "why wouldnt you want a V8?" Because of course muscle cars are fast.. but can you keep up with only half the engine? This is a similar idea to my approach to APUs. There is something so satisfying about getting decent performance with NO dgpu. Youre handicapped from the get go so if it provides a quality experience then it is even more impressive. I usually pull for the underdog which may be part of why i have amd gpu n cpu now. (5600x/6950xt) My question is.. how well does the igpu silicon overclock? Some games will alreadu be bandwidth limited but some games could see a decent uplift. 88wattz is low for a modern cpu especially with a gaming igpu in it so there should be plenty of thermal and power headroom.
The Gpu does overclock like 10-20%, but dont expect any noticable gains at 1080p. If you are still happy with 720p low , you might have something to look forward to. i built a FM2 DDR3 based system for the living room (one 120mm at 400-600 rpm) a while ago and its essentially the same with this. When APUs dont have some extra cache on chip for the GPU, i wont buy one as my main PC .
@@flummi6966 this is what I've been saying.. if they release something like a 10700g zen 5 with 16cu of rdna 4 with ddr5 7600cl38 or something it would def be fast but if they put 64mb of cache specifically for the GPU then man.. it might actually provide a full on med high 1080p 60 for AAA and 1080p144 ultra for games like cs2 or apex. It would be expensive of course so the larger market for a $450 CPU like that would be for laptops. I can image a 45 watt laptop chip that would provide great performance with igpu. Obviously this is the future. Most people already play on APUs as the consoles although that is 8 channels memory and not 2channel ddr5
Turning on AFMF (frame generation) in a game that requires precise timing for rolling, attacking, parrying, etc is going to put you off because of the added latency. This really shouldn't be any surprise at all.
Comparing to setups with actual graphics cards might feel a bit silly. Might be more interesting to see how it performs with 1 of those with a dGPU, maybe one for AMD, one for Intel. And leave the rest for iGPU's. Throw in a 5600G, 5700G, anything Intel, a 7000-series AMD. Any such.
I think he wanted to test against an Intel lower powered CPU but his samples hadnt arrived. the comparison against the intel chip with a power restriction was interesting. Surprised how well the AMD APU handled it all. I think I might buy one of these for a second system for fun
Surely the point is that people pay a certain of amount of money to achieve a certain end. If a $150 GPU plus $150 CPU beats a $300 APU that is the important point. Leo
It will only make sense for 250$ with a 130$ itx mb. So in a loooong time, by which there might be better options, intel or better ultra small gpus for 4L cases.
So I did some research online. The integrated graphics are a little bit faster than a GTX 1650. The Xbox Series S gpu is reportedly in between a GTX 1060-1660. So theoretically, when prices go down a bit and if you're a savvy shopper, you could potentially build a $500 ITX PC with no GPU required that would offer similar performance to the (admittedly cheaper) Xbox Series S, with all the benefits a PC provides. But that's just a theory.
Did you mean that the Series "S" is around a 1060 - 1660 GTX? Certainly you don't mean that the Series "X" is at that level of performance. You typed Series "S" later on, so maybe it was a typo. I would just hate for anyone to read that and get the wrong idea for a build. For anyone reading, the Xbox Series X's GPU is around the performance of a 2070 or 6700XT.
@kitgurutech Informative video. Considering buying one of these for an mitx build. I can't find anywhere, Called AMD who weren't 100% on the answer. My question is around dual 4k monitors hdr @ 60fps. Not running games at this configuration but for productivity. Can the 780m igpu run 2 monitors 4k hdr at 60hz in your testing? Don't want to commit to an expensive cpu if not...
You know you can power that with a 400W power supply, even a 300W would do but that would cut it a bit close. (I am talking about a budget version without the RX 6500XT, as this APU was intended to be used)
I'm fixing to build another Mini-ITX system using the 8700G. I'm going with the GIGABYTE A620I AX, which is $129.99 on Amazon (USA). It isn't a well-built board, and the USB 3.0 header is rather flimsy, although other than that, I haven't had any issues with the other mini-itx build I recently did using it.
Its a strong as a RX480, or GF970. Not surprising if your willing to play at 720p or 1080p on low. What would be surprising if they actually took the time to design a real apu with its own separate socket with access to quadchannel memory and room for a bigger die. There is a damn market for console tier APU's and noones filling it.
This APU is perfect for a mobile mini system you take around and game on with friends at their houses and stuff. Put it in a tiny case that is easy to move around.
Well , the 780M should support Frame Generation , with AMFM and FSR3 + AFMF = you could get higher FPS , if you have 60 FPS already with the IGPU = ~ 110 FPS with AFMF , with slower paced Games or when Latency ist not an issue that should be fine .
For someone who needs a general purpose computer, office, emails, Spotify, streamed video, casual image editing etc.... This is perfect, Indeed the lesser models would be better value. For a gamer, if you play old games from a big old library, it'll work. For newish and forthcoming games, it's just not powerful enough, either as an APU or as a CPU. Twas ever thus with AMD's APUs.
Smooth 40fps on 120 Hz television is viable option today with higher graphics or resolution. Or 720p with x3 Integer scaling on a 4K television. Pixel perfect. (ChimeraOS)
yeah its a great option to save money if you dont need the highest IQ. 1080p still looks decent to me unless you are playing on a massive tv or something.
Cracking APU. Thanks for telling us about it. Given your comments about space and ITX the review would have been even better had you looked at and compared it with AMD's NUC and mini-PC boxes like the Beelink GTR7 Pro which also have the 780M GPU but cost vastly more. Does the additional power and cooling available in a PC case make a difference? Perhaps something for a follow-up. I know you concentrated on games, but how does the 8700G fare when accelerating business applications?
🙌🏽 Brilliant and very well explained review and comparison! wow! I was thinking about buying this APU and probably will, just to build an “expensive but compact ITX System) but may wait a little more! ~$330 plus taxes mmmm, if I have the extra money Ill get it and to do some reviews and help other people decide if its for them or not!
I mean are we not at the point a MB, CPU and GPU (maybe even RAM) should all be one package? Kind of like nvidia Jetson or a laptop MB. The Mother Board market and their price games are getting out of hand, plus remember Intel Extreme MB? They were pretty good. I would much rather buy one complete package even if the chips were soldered onto the PCB. I install the CPU and I can't remember how long it has been since I removed a CPU after install lol. Maybe reapply paste but that's it. Thanks Kit as always
Problem is Nvidia cant really do the CPU side of things, and Intel cant really do the GPU side of things. So yes id say AMD would love that concept, but its a great idea in theory. Just not sure a huge audience would like the non modularity of it all, unless ive mistaken what you meant.
Its an interesting idea, and one that I think Nvidia would love in principle if they could create a working x86 CPU side for their GPU's. But there isnt really money in it for them I dont think. they want people upgrading their GPU's all the time and they let Intel and AMD fight over the other part.
That would drastically increase cost in the long term if you are into upgrading, and SIGNIFIGANTLY increase the amount of Ewaste produced. SOCs are for hypercompact systems, like phones , Thin&Lights, and handhelds, keep them away from my desktops thank you very much.
I use the Ryzen 3 4300G. for my use case it's perfect. the only reason why I want a GPU is to fill the space in my case.. but at the same time I won't buy a silly GPU for that sake. So I'm okay with waiting a year or 2 while I save for a good GPU. and that's the nice thing about these APUs. you can game and have fun while you wait to buy a GPU. You won't win a ranked competitive Warzone match but you can get kills, have fun. game for hours. it's amazing really.
massively impressed me. great article Leo. I love how you had 2 screens attached. I wasnt expecting that one - thought you were going to pull out a sandwich for lunch ! Im buying one for a little small system beside my tv to play games at 1080p
Other than SFF builds it doesn't make much sense, same as always. I guess AMD doesn't want to cut into the console and handheld PC market to compete against their own products. I just think the profit margin could be better on something like this than a cheap GPU/CPU combo but the performance isn't really there.
I dont understand why we advise people to dead platforms instead of a nice entry to a new platform i rather pay the 330 for a cpu gpu combo that gives enough preforms to come around and gives me a really wide upgrade path for atleast 2 years the the 12 gen intel cpu’s is the last thing i’d spend my money on
Very good value for money this chip. Integrated graphics are usually so rubbish but they've done a pretty decent job. Now if only they could sort out their naming conventions.
🙂 neat idea, needs to come to other cheaper motherboards on AM4 and would be nice if intel brings something likes this for lga 1700 motherboards, also all laptops would benefit from this, also mini pcs
The big problem I see here is the price. For slightly less money, you can buy an i3- 12100 and RX 6600 combo that will give much better performance in most games.
I see this CPU working more in situations where you dont have a massive amount on room, like you wanna build a hyper portable system, or are saving up for a GPU, and buy this so you can still play while saving up, since the 8700G is still a far more powerful CPU than the 121000.
@@Coliflower185 I suggest you go look at the 8700G review by Hardware Unboxed. In nearly every gaming situation, a 12100 and rx 6600 wipe the floor with the 8700G while spending the same $330 you're pissing away on the APU. It makes no economical sense. Maybe if the 8700G was under $250, it might make sense, but not at $330.
I am interested in this for our youngest gamer. The problem I have is he is currently using a B450 with a 6700xt and 32gb of DDR4. My issue is, should I even bother as it would require a boatload of money to upgrade to DDR5 with a DDR5 board (£200+) and getting this which will be £300+. I would get a decent trade in for his current set up but honestly would the cost be justified for what would seem to be a downgrade but be a huge savings in power consumption. I am talking myself out of the thought, it feels like paying an extra £10 grand for a vehicle to save a few pence in fuel that wont live long enough to pay you back.
In no world whatsoever would I even be thinking about that. The gamer in question will be able to grow into the current system, and should get quite a few years use out of it. The 8700g will be a huge step down from the 6700xt, and it just kinda seems pointless, as you already have the system. Improved power consumption is great, but not if you have to pay over the odds for the AM5 parts in the first place.
Cheers, I am off the ledge. Wanting to skip the AM5 chipset and DDR5 is the main goal, stepping into it face first would have been counter productive.@@thedandyp
tbh I have an ATX system, and I've never used the other PCI-E slots other than while using 2 gpus when mining was a thing, but that didn't last long since the second pcie was too close and my main gpu couldn't breathe. Even then I have a 2.5 slot gpu (3080ti gigabyte eagle) but would definitely go for a smaller build, even then my case (R6) has lacking airflow imo so I'd bet with a smaller case and similar fans it'd be better as there is less distance for the air to travel.
APU's just don't make above $150 USD since they have half the PCIe connectivity of their NON-APU counterparts. MPU's for consumers are a useless specification and when the manufacturers ad them along with their price premiums; they upcharge consumer for literally no reason. Additionally, then the CPU portion is the bottleneck for what is frankly weak built in graphics; there is no reason that these products should demanding such high price premiums. Above $150 they are a waste of money and will ultimately be replaced by average consumers with non-apu parts when they realize the APU sucks. Intel has this right in the sense that with or without built in graphics, the CPU portion is the same and their is no compromise on PCIe connectivity options as well as the ability to actually disable the built in graphics. So in my view, the G in Ryzen G is short for GARBAGE
I dont know I think this APU is great for a father for his kid, or a second system,. its low power. doesnt make much noise and at 1080p you can get decent 1080p performance with most games. I think there is market for APU for some people. Its clearly not for you however, I agree.
@@p_sn00ter Yeah you can, but I think part of the point of this is for the lowest possible noise and power drain, I know a friend who does some music editing uses an APU for specific tasks etc.
@@p_sn00ter which takes up more space and more power than this. For most use cases just getting a cheaper CPU and a GPU will make more sense, but this thing has use cases.
This is a terrible value proposition for gamers tbh. For the same price you can get a cheaper cpu and couple it with a 6500XT and get alot more performance
i built a few m-atx gaming pcs in small cases for parents who have kids who only play games like minecraft and roblox type games for kids. It saves money bc no GPU and can buy less watts on the PSU. I get fastest ram tho so it keeps up better.
Interesting. Taking everything with grain of salt. That in mind what about person that wants minimum PC now, with an older monitor. That has an upgrade path after 3 years ( both CPU and GPU, and monitor). Is it good investment (around 350€ with 25%tax included )? Or should a person buy 7600 for 250€ + 200€ for used gpu ? ❤
This proves how pointless the 6500XT is as a dGPU. Can't get 60fps and the 780M hold a good 30 fps and is part of the APU. Mini ITX tax ruins these APU's though
Laptop CPU in a PC package? Hmmm, when what I'd expect, and expect to perform better, is X-Box gubbins in a PC package. I think AMD have ballooned this one over the goal and into the crowd in the penalty box with only a substitute goalie to beat. What am I missing?
Once again AMD does not do the right thing. If that 8700G is connected to a Freesync monitor it should have used an As Rock board. They support 120hz on the HDMI and DP outputs. That is probably why the CPU is not doing much while Gaming.
What is the implication of ''Only 8 lanes'' ? You are saying I cannot bring over my existing RTX 3060 to pair with the 8700G APU because of 8 support lanes on the motherboard?
@@stevenknight95 still he says that it has enough pcie lanes for a full fat graphics card, but that is simply not true, it has only 8 lanes available for a dedicated graphics card instead of 16 lanes
@@BravoSixGoingDark it will work, but will have less lanes available, so less bandwidth, but 8 lanes will not bottleneck a RTX 3060, but it will bottleneck higher end GPU's
Specifically, eight lanes of Gen 4 which is plenty for any current GPU and realistically double or more the bandwidth of any GPU anyone is likely to ally with this APU. Leo
It would take 5 mins to find an ITX board for £157 on HUKD. So Conclusions around the £250 price are false and lazy to be honest. There are even cheaper sub £100 chinese ITX boards if you're feeling brave. Then there are the upcoming Deskmini and similar products for very compact builds to consider.
Ok, fair enough, let me add the words 'that I would want to use in a PC'. Assuming you are referring to the ASRock A620i Lightning WiFi, I strongly recommend you avoid a motherboard with HDMI but no DisplayPort output as scaling with DP is spot-on while it can be shaky with HDMI. Personally I am not a huge fan of the A620 chipset, but that is a slightly different point. Leo
@@KitGuruTech Yep, that's the one and thanks for getting back to me. Do you mean resoloution scaling on the desktop? I haven't come accross a difference in HDMI vs DP. I'd be after one of these for a small footprint living room build, where HDMI (2.1) is likely your only option. A620 vs 650 in this case just comes down to overclocking and PBO options. I don't think you'd be missing much, if anything.
@@justincase2312 Specifically it is overscan. HDMI is happy to send an image to a TV that is a few percent larger than the screen so you lose a small amount of the image (but that doesn't matter as the border of TV pictures is irrelevant) and you never get a black line on the screen. When you send a Windows display over HDMI if the image overscans you lose your taskbar and parts of your icons, and that is no good. You need to be able to resize the image to fit the display corectly and this is often problematic. With DisplayPort the issue doesn't arise, hence a motherboard with a single HDMI output becomes a major consideration when you plan on using the IGP for everything. Leo
@@KitGuruTech Ok yeah, that is a good point about about the one option for output being a limitation. Fine for TV gaming, but maybe very limiting for a general purpose mini PC. I have't had any problems gaming and desktop use on a TV in regards to overscan. And there are options in the driver suite to address problems and possibly controls on the TV settings. But yeah, something to consider. And a lot of monitors will only display their max refresh rate and have Adaptive sync options enabled when connecting via DP.
This is the most confusing chip I have ever seen. It wants to be the most powerful APU ever but the graphics chip on the 8700g is not very good, as you alluded the GPU was pegged at 99% usage while the CPU was sitting at 1-3% load. On the other hand it is a very solid CPU, 16 threads is very nice to have on its own but it is the worst pairing of a CPU/GPU for its price. I cant think of a single person this chip makes sense for. There are CPU and GPU combos that deliver twice the gaming performance for $300. Only thing is those are comprised of much less powerful CPUs. This APU is so confusing. I dont get it.
@@Coliflower185 Right, but its not powerful. At all. The CPU on its own is solid but the Intergrated graphics even though they are the best we have seen, are really low end. AMD (which I hold no bias towards either them or intel) just went out to make a product in a market segment that is so small just to toot their own horn. Realistically nobody who is educated is going to buy this "Most powerful APU ever" because it makes no sense for gaming. You can buy a CPU and a discrete graphics card that will mop the floor against the 8700g for the same price as the 8700g. This chip is literally for the uneducated budget gamer. Its the most powerful APU ever because intel doesnt want to compete in this segment of the market because its soooooo damn niche, there is no money to be made on a large scale. This chip is very over priced. Damn I cant believe I typed this much, feels like a waste of time. Cheers
You can't get that with an APU, whether it's a laptop or desktop APU. The most powerful laptops have an APU+dGPU setup, and in most cases today you'll need to disable the iGPU for it to not get in the way of the dGPU. People also pretend AMD APUs on gaming laptops increase battery life, but that statement is just wrong depending on what you do, and the reason is that a laptop that powerful needs to power a powerful CPU. And if you let your laptop on idle, there are no differences between dGPU and iGPU, especially when using a MUX switch. So even gaming laptops are practically leaving iGPUs on the side of the road. The only purpose for an APU with a powerful iGPU is for a "budget" desktop gaming build, with quotes because any "gaming" dGPU (like a GDDR6 GTX 1650) will perform the same or better than that APU while not having to rely as much on RAM as the APU does. The "low" cost of the APU will be offset with having to buy a better RAM kit (and possibly better motherboard).
this is another ghost cpu from amd that doesnt exist in reality! you will see reviewrs talk about it liek they actually have one but it is nowhere to be seen anywhere! today is jan 31 the suposed launch date for this product but there is COMPLETE silence!
We just checked with AMD this morning as people have asked a fair few times, and its launching today at 2pm GMT (31st Jan) on etailers. Straight from AMD PR....
