AMD vs Intel - The Past, The Present and Near Future 

Fun Fact: Intel has more ca$h. AMD has more cache.

Intel's lack of focus is pretty clear on their roadmap fantasies.

I think it's crazy to me that only a few years ago no one would ever consider an AMD cpu in their builds. Now? I don't hear anyone ever talk about intel, even just at my job with people you wouldn't consider fanboys or big enthusiasts. I almost think bulldozer was a slight blessing for them because it forced them to innovate to survive.

Every time Adored drops an AMD video, I buy 10 more shares.

"AMD tends to do better with the much smaller market of self builders and power users". Because we Know...

I like the fact that AMD lost its green colour for ATI's red.

Global Foundries really should have had their 7nm process up, that would have worked perfectly for the consoles.

Strange things are, Intel's vulnerabilities help drive Intel's sales in data center. Because it reduce performance with every mitigation, forcing server guys to add more CPU to make performance back to where it was. Much easier for server guys to add more CPU than to replace everything by migrating to EPYC.

"They may take our mindshare.... But! ... They may never take..... OUR CORES!!!!!!!!"

I would like to reiterate the importance of security in the data center the problem currently is with all of the mitigation’s enabled for the Intel server platform performance decreases significantly meaning that servers specced out in the data center that used to have plenty of headroom now do not have enough headroom and so there is a huge problem where are you need to sacrifice security for performance otherwise you do not have enough compute power to perform your server tasks the other problem is companies plan on specific life cycles for their hardware and now everything is up in the air because current data center servers with Intel CPUs cannot meet demand and now other options are being considered I think we will see the data center start to be more and more dominated by EPYC CPUs soon. Another limitation in the data center as you often have limited Rackspace so the only option more and more is becoming AMD because of the density they can achieve over intel. When you apply Intel security mitigations and test performance versus AMD it is a no brainer you have no other choice.

"Clearly a large package" (˵ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°˵)

"XEON WAS GREAT. SO WAS COAL." 10/10

Don't be shy. If you want to talk about 2021, just add the minutes. We're here for you.

I was just going to watch JoJo,but I can’t resist....

That 15:07 transition was so smooth, I had to double take.

I think AMDs biggest mistake in the past was tying themselves to Global Foundries with that waifer agreement. Bulldozer would still have been a disaster, but being constantly dragged down by GF's underperforming nodes just made things worse not to mention the penalties for not meeting their purchase agreements.

@AdoredTV, before 2nd gen AMD's single threaded performance wasn't great due to how memory access was in different core complexes, I know for a friend who works with investment algorithms, a very lucrative industry where they're willing to pay top dollar easily, they were unable to replace their Intel with Epyc equivalents. Now they're locked in for another 3/4 years, plus they write C/C++ code directly for the micro architecture, trying to run two different server processors would make their work way more difficult so that's not going to happen any time soon unless the performance advantage is insane. He still hasn't gotten his hands on new Epycs yet though, they will be testing it out, really curious as to what he has to say. Only this gen is it starting to look good, but it will take a few years to start swapping over, desktop for consumer will move over a lot faster as you don't really do such optimizations for consumer software and therefore you'll see easy gains as a developer while the consumer sees better perf/dollar. For laptops, AMD still sucks, so don't think it will really get a lot of market share yet, but this is able to move over quickly compared to e.g. the server market. This is also so for OEM desktop market, it takes time for changing your entire production line. Btw, I'm expecting AMD profits to shoot up considering they no longer have to pay off GF, but it's good that they're reinvesting all their money into R&D. I'm still curious as to how much 5nm will impact AMD, mostly because of the increased supply if the higher than 7nm of TSMC is to be believed. Milan will be very interesting if rumors work out, I'm currently working on some transaction based stuff, it's currently limited by time slice, but adding more threads via e.g. epyc doesn't work as it would be maxing the L3 allocated and fetching from RAM would be too long a delay, building up a queue. If Milan works out, it means I don't have to worry about limiting the memory on every CCX, rather I can just worry about the total queue assignment, so less holes. I'll probably leave an easy swap in my code for it if Milan is supposed to show up by end of next year, I'll take a free ~15% speed increase before even taking other increases into account while being simpler code.

34:40 Not sure how making such a statement as 90% market share is no longer the goal from a CEO doesn’t tank their share price.

Watching Tom's cloud engineer interview cleared up why Intel saw growth in sales for data Center. Centers had to buy more cpu's to make up for the lost mitigation performance. They couldn't outright switch in response. In the short term.

3950X PBO2, Infinity Fabric clocked to 1900mhz and fast RAM that can be clocked to 3800mhz and manually tuned to lowest timings. That is actually the fastest gaming CPU (if Threadrippers are not counted). It will win agains 9900KS with super fast RAM. Though the differences are withing couple of %.

The sweet sound of Scottish analysis...everyone knows what time it is. 🙏

15:00 Awesome transition! :D

Enjoyed this one, thanks Jim. Yes, I think what's holding AMD back big time right now are the supply issues. They really need to get that sorted out from day 1. They definitely have the product, now they need to meet the demand and they're nowhere near doing that right now.

Good and informative video. Love your content. However I would slightly disagree on the upcoming laptop market in 2020. I foresee AMD taking a decent chunk of that market. (Not like they are going to own it though). My reasoning for this is pretty thin though and I admit that. This is mostly based upon the current AMD laptops are kinda built around an Intel based laptop, and then accommodated to fit zen cores . (Particularly the first series) and I foresee that with zen2 (which I have heard that those laptops should be announced at CES) would have laptops that are designed from the ground up, to accommodate the zen2 architecture. When we look back at the computex where zen2 was announced, they had a representative from Acer, who mostly spoke about laptops and he seemed very giddy for upcoming products. There was this, kinda secret underlying tone of "yeah yeah, we have theese ryzen 3000 laptops coming out, which is up to par but pretty basic, however ryzen 4000 on laptops is going to be amazing" Now I know this is thin, and I'm in no way as connected to sources in the industry. Let's just say, I wouldn't be surprised if ryzen 4000 on laptops is going to shake things up a little.

Nice analysis, and you only have to wait 8 short months for the followup! Can't wait for the 2021+ video :)

Even when they lost the race, they still make ways to claim supeority like "real world applications" or "the ryzen 7 is equal in performance with the i3" Blue team is very pathetic, i dont know why people hype this brand in GPU market... Btw Jim what is your opinion on RX 5500 XT?

It's amazing looking back at this. ZEN3 on regular 7nm is exactly what they did. Hope we see a zen 3 refresh on 7n+ before jumping to AM5.

Do you know what I don't like about AdoredTV videos? Watching the progress bar creep towards the end. 😎

Recently I rarely hear about GlobalFoundries. Are they still making chip for AMD?

I do wonder if this time around they will make some good profit on those consoles and not just go for the bulk and low profits.

If more people know how bad Intel is they should avoid buying Intel cpu and let AMD get ahead. Its better for everyone

can you do a video on intel's manufacturing problems and why they can't meet demand? thanks.

Still, early days on Ryzen 2 - the datacentre procurement is slow and I don't know what refresh cycles are like. Azure and AWS has tentatively adopted it, but there are a lot of established intel servers and motherboards sitting in those datacentres.

AdoredTV any new year videos bigman. Happy New Year!

i do think a working 20nm-class node could maybe have 'saved' bulldozer. It would allow AMD to widen the cores, going back to at least 3 int pipelines (like phenom II) instead of just 2 per core. Add in some extra cache and a bit more focus on IPC vs clockspeed, and it could have been at least somewhat decent. The module design itself worked pretty well ( with 80% the performance of a dual core at the same design), it's just that they had to narrow the cores too much to make it fit on 32nm.

Its simple. Intel simply pays off CEO's and tech companies to use their product, performance and cost be damned. AMD leads in server and desktop performance but that no longer matters....at all.

hey, my mindfactory charts :)

If you include the workstation market for hedt it's actually something like a $10bil total addressable market. And this is where threadripper is going to be targeted at from now on. That's still not massive in the grand scheme of things, but that's a hefty chunk of change that could be going in amd's pocket. Provided they don't underestimate demand again, which is the biggest factor for their current supply issues. They're selling every single wafer of ccd's they produce.

That transition at 15:05 really couldn't have gone any better. How long did it take you to line that up so well?? :P

Lovely way to have my morning coffee.

From what I understand, much of Intel's server sales increase is due to the performance loss many datacenters saw due to several security mitigations. IT managers were forced to add capacity in a rush to make up for the huge hit in performance they've seen.

Wow, my future seems brighter than Intel's roadmap.

AMD has to enter laptops and get inside best selling laptops, hopefully with 7+nm

N7? Sounds like galactic special forces from Mass Effect! -:) Thanks for the great video Jim - happy holidays!

Hello random guy scrolling through the comments who had never seen an AdoredTV videos...have a nice day. 😅

This is a great analysis!

Remember that APUs (including Ryzen Mobile) is a gen behind, so the current 3xxx APUs are Zen+ with Vega. So, AMD could port Zen2 to N7 enhanced (which is called N6), while switching the desktop and server over to N7. This would allow the very best chips of Zen2 to laptop with better power/watt, while pushing Zen3 to server and desktop with N7 EUV. Plus, 5nm is approaching 80% yield already for risk production (see www.anandtech.com/show/15219/early-tsmc-5nm-test-chip-yields-80-hvm-coming-in-h1-2020 ), so mobile customers are going to move onto 5 nm, leaving open quite a lot of capacity for AMD to tap into. Also, I put the space after ) to make sure the link does not break.

Well.. I worked for 'In-Hell' and seems they forgot the one thing that made them great, their people... Worked five years and they kept dumping more and more on a person to somehow improve.. but some positions cannot be improved.. I did manufacturing in the FAB, We were reduced to so few people before I left... safety would have been a concern, but I guess not for them.

subscribe squad btw what do you think about the 5500xt small die, cant wait for an apu that has rx580 performance

Ha,

Jim ik im just a hitchhiker but id love to see you start posting your vids in 4k, when i watch 1080 content on my lg c9 the blurriness makes my head hurt lol totally understand why not though thanks for the vids once i get enough money ill def be joining ur pat bro

Another great and well detailed video, keep it coming. AMD really need to market their winning products especially in the server space. Intel have been dominant for so long that the non-enthusiast seem to assume intel are the best choice without question. I'm a fan of AMD but their leadership in performance won't last forever with intels funding.

26:40 not sure if die shot or a factorio megabase xD

Great informative video with my morning coffee

Amazing vid man. Well done.

You could say in a nut shell, go to sleep and wake up in 2022 when TSMC has moved CPU production over to 5nm which is a properly new node where they are investing massively into capacity for it, we will have Zen 4 being fed by faster DDR5 and Intel *might* be back in the game with 7nm Granite Rapids. I personal don't think DDR5 will cut it if they are already struggling to feed Zen 2 cores with data. DDR5 won't be that much faster than DDR4, ie not like get a new rule book faster. For me the only way forward is either on die memory, la 3D stacked or simply use HBM as system RAM. This is the route I think the upcoming consoles should have gone. We have all seen how well GPU and CPU performance scales with faster memory. I know HBM is more expensive but given the tight power envelope consoles have to work in I think the sizeable performance increase directly from using HBM plus the power savings which leads to even more performance improvements from allowing higher core clocks would have been well worth it. Stick another $50-100 buck on the console if you really need to.

Great insight into the future Jim.

14:30 Hey, the Pentium guys don't appear to be dancing anymore... 😁

How to fight against Intel pre-build dominance and security flaws, advertise to friends,family,colleagues that you are willing to build them the best computer based on what they want to do with it and how much they want to pay for it. There is always something to be gained without taking any extra money from the building process, like ordering components to yourself in the process, getting perhaps better deals and at least you get the parts free from delivery costs.

This makes so much sense on why they bringing a 64 core threadripper next year. They will just do a Zen 2 Speed refresh next year that about match Intel in gaming and crushes in productivity.

Thank you once again for a great deal of information. 👍👍

Intel's Core architecture actually loses in some old, single to dual-core games: imgur.com/gallery/vr2nyKR It is weird how some modern games love Intel though, but some old games love AMD.

Intel needs to rename the 300w part firelake.

I'm starting to believe there's foul play at hand. Why is AMD not pushing quantity? Is this another cartel situation? Just like the RAM price fixing?

Where did you get the "20% IPC increase" figure for zen3? I have heard "double digits" in the past (and personally guess 15% for constancy).

15:07 That was one smooooth transition :D

Around 18:10 ... just guessing, but typo on slide? A 19 core module doesnt make in mem and io access .. 48c does make sense, to boost yields vs 56c (both 2 die mcm)

I'm glad to see that AMD is gaining market share. Let that momentum build.

This is how I figured it would go all along. When Zen1 came out companies starting thinking about AMD in the data center. When Zen2 came out companies started planning for AMD in the datacenter and some started small adoptions. When Zen3 comes out AMD will start to dominate the server space.

I wonder if Zen 3 desktop parts will be pushed into 2021 and a new socket/ ddr5? If they're memory limited in performance DDR5 should help. It also keeps their AM4 until 2020 promise. I was hoping some news on RDNA2 products would be in this video, but I guess I already know when the new consoles using it are coming out, so end of 2020 sounds likely.

15:05 now that's a cool transition!

Waiting on Zen 3 for my next upgrade and to retire my i7-4790k. Totally agree that disabling the hyperthreading upsets me as I bought an i7, not an i5.

I coulda swore cooper lake was supposed to be running twin 24 cascade lake dies in one socket, aka literally 2 cpu's in a socket. Kinda like gen 1 threadripper except a much worse interconnect. The extra pcie lanes and memory channels would also indicate this. It would also probably be cheaper to make the 48 core on 14nm and where powerdraw matters more than corecount or cost, we will see Ice lake

i gues this 7NP+ (2nd gen 7np) may be what they expect to use in consoles. if its already rolling out, and gives upto 10% better energi consumption, would make good sence for the PS5 and Xbox SeriesX machines to have Zen2 on this 7NP gen2 stuff. To min-max the preformance->wattage numbers.

27:20 damn that looks amazing, and interestingly enough it looks mostly organic :O Those big blue areas are "unused" area, power delivery perhaps?

15:06 Very nice transition.

For big data, the extra PCI-E lanes of Epyc are a clear advantage.

On the gaming point: Gamers Nexus recommend the 3600 over 9600K as according to them, while the average fps might be a little lower on some games, there is less stuttering.

AMD actually forced Intel in making their hardware into console versions.

One thing you did not mention but should is driver and compatibility issues. Intel just works. I can purchase 500 workstations based on Xeon-w and I know they will work for all my employees. I do not have that confidence with Threadripper both the 19XX and the 29XX Threadrippers are notorious for having all sorts of issues. I need to be 100% sure that they will work with all my software just as well as Intel before I can even think about purchasing one regardless of performance or price. From what I have seen out of Ryzen 3 AMD looks like they are more or less there now but that only really happened this year. I will probably be looking at a trial group of AMD CPUs for 2020.

I just read that VIA teamed up with some Chinese company and they are about to release a powerful x86 CPU to compete against Intel and AMD. Also Hercules which VIA owns is also about to release another X86 server CPU?? anyone know more about this>?

Didn't know about plundervolt before this video. Ah well, another day, another Intel vulnerability.

What video shows the EUV animation? Could you link it please?

Holding out for a Zen2 Laptop thin and mobile laptop.. been so close just to pull the trigger on a 10th Gen Intel. Maybe Tax time there'll be Zen2 Laptops that also have Thunderbolt 3.

Furthermore, smt4 will be really good for epyc, as multi threading on that scale is something that market can actually use

Kinda sad that a 40 minute video on detailed x86 market stuff only has 500 off comments on it after a few... Days? Or is it Weeks yet?

Zen 3 is: 1. New Architecture 2. 5nm 3. DDR5 4. AM5 (or "AM4+") 5. PCIE5 6 ~20% IPC gain. 7. New chipset (still probably named X670 or similar) Makes a lot of sense. Every 4 to 5 years there is a real need for a shift on all levels to modernize a platform. All of these standards will be new and none of them will be greatly surpassed for a few years. This is 2021, just after where AMD promised AM4 support and when Intel will start to see the first real fruits of whatever they will compete with in the long term. I will be buying a 12 core 5nm Zen3 chip if this is true. I have the R7 1700 right now. combine about 40% IPC, 30% clocks, 40% faster memory and 50% more cores and it should be a great performance jump. Probably about $600 upgrade though.

So one possibility that might be interesting for the consoles is moving one or both over to Samsung's 7nm to free up more TSMC wafers for server/desktop/laptop.

Imagine if AMD suddenly touched on ARM

Could TSMC buy GF to increase capacity quickly? The demand seems to be there to justify such a purchase.

Jim I'm interested to know why you didn't bring up global foundries 12 nm + process which shows 40% better efficiency (according to anandtech I believe) as a potential outlet for amd to produce its lower end chip loads for the purpose of supplying a major low end market share grab. Is this not realistic?

CES is looking like it's going to be quite interesting. RDNA 2.0, strong chance of Renoir APU's, and I would not be surprised if Milan is demoed. This would help AMD start contracts for Milan; to help start transitioning Epyc production from 7nm to 7nm+. Freeing up much needed room for not only Renoir (and mobile by association), but consoles as well. And with consoles being guaranteed to sell by the millions AMD needs to be able to deliver.

When capitalism really works, any company, regardless of its size, will be able to compete with any one else as long as they have a good product. Unfortunately capitalism has been substituted by corporativism and the bigger the corporation the more power and influence it has. I believe we reached a point when nothing short of a major cataclysm will be able to dethrone this giant corporations. So basically we live in a world dictatorship controlled by a few corporations and banks. Might as well enjoy it because we can't change it.

The reason AMD isnt selling as much as you would think in servers is purely down to inertia. It takes time to evaluate and sign off against business software. E.g. the solutions I design at work are currently only aroudn 20% amd epyc vs Xeon, purely because I'm forced to. A lot of software vendors haven't signed off on epyc yet, which means we cant install them for customers and still expect support on that software. For example, SAP.

On supply issues. It's probably Glofo holding things up with the IO die or it might be that Apple etc are dominating TSMC's fabs.

how about a followup on this video after AMD indeed did choose to skip 7+ on Ryzen Zen 3?

Too long?....... No, no, no, keep going bud! Great little deep dive, and well spotted with the "pattern" as to the lack of i7's and i9's. 👍

18:30 ‘it’s clearly a large package’

I think AMD needs to make their own OEM laptop brand to expand more. The laptop market is huge and if they created 1 or 2 highly customizable models with each of the display sizes they could keep manufacturing overhead low while offering something for everyone. Focus on making a laptop with a great design and offer it with several CPU, RAM and SSD/HDD combinations. Not only will it give them access to a huge market where they are under represented it will also give them larger margins if there is no OEM taking a large part of the profit.

Thank you AMD. If it wasn't for you we would be in a loop of disappoinment. Oh and Lisa Su thank you for you vision for the future.