John abroosi in Prison break, the mob boss in constatine he was the devil! lol. And the doctor in until dawn. I LOVE THIS ACTOR. If he is in a movie i automatically watch it. Tv shows included.
I like how Czernobog relates to Moon Shadow. He doesn’t try to usurp the narrative of black people of America, but instead lays the hard lesson that discrimination is everywhere in many different form and is everywhere.
In Slavic mythology, Černobog means Black god or God of black (God of death) and Bielobog (his brother) means White God or God of white (God of life). This is why he is so passionate about "being black". There is also a saying that Bielobog and Černobog are one being.
@Heru Behudety *I'm NOT. My family's NOT. Their family is NOT. NO ONE in thier villages WERE. Don't make assumptions about people you don't know. We sure as hell DON'T.*
@@titoaldunate i figured you were going to say that but i didnt want to presuppose it. so you mean the situation that started when the president, who was Hutu, was killed? didnt the hutu and tutsi distinction come from french europeans dividing them up by features though? hotel rwanda comes to mind
Great metaphor for hatred. For those who still dont get it, the actual meaning of this is "People will always find a way of hating each other". In Chernobogs metaphor he says how where they are from "everyone is the same color" so they "must fight over shades", meaning ethnicity. This is amazingly true, I'm a Serb so I know FULL WELL just how true this is. Here in the Balkans "everyone is the same color" so we must fight over ethnicity. People focus to much on race hatred, when ethnic hatred is the true evil of this world, Serbs and Croats are almost exactly the same, yet we still hate one another because we are of ever so slightly different shades. But in the end we are both gray. "So much for fighting over color."
This is one statement that chills my spine. People always look for differences, which turn into competitions, which turn into divisions, which turn into light vs dark, black vs white.
I’m from India and I can tell you it’s pretty much the same over the entire subcontinent. Colour, religion, caste, all excuses to justify humanity’s worst impulses and find a reason to hate. We have an entire colour category called wheatish which is what people say when they don’t want to admit they are dark skinned.
Shadow is slowly learning how to understand the way gods think and communicate. They’re nigh-eternal and highly metaphysically conscious beings; and he’s starting to figure out not to take all of their words and interpret literal meaning out of them. They’re not very literal people; almost everything they say has layers upon layers of meaning.
This is why I really love American Gods. In a lot of other shows that depict mythological figures, they're really not all that much different from humans. They have powers and that's the only thing that separates them. In American Gods, even though the gods look human, you can tell from how they speak, how they present themselves, and how they view certain things that there's something.... off about them.
He's telling Shadow 'racism is stupid' but in a very condescending, trolly way. If Shadow wasn't so easily goaded, he'd see Czerno was just riling him up. If you look at Wednsday, he's giving shadow the raised eyebrows of reasonableness. :p
No, its a story about slavic people. We have been fighting each other and ourselves for centuries. When He says shades, he is referring to orthodox slavs, muslim slavs, catholic, etc etc etc.... But we always ignore the fact that we are 1 people...
Francisco Rodriguez on face value. There’s also morality is pointless. He is known as the god of darkness and evil and his brother is the god of light and good but they are actually both gray. Everyone is capable of good and evil. Even saints are sinners too
@@sirprize275 We do gotta look at the whole status of Czernobog though. He is a prallel to Shadow, especially during their game of checkers. Czernobog is unable to adapt. He always plays the same moves over and over expecting it to work every time. Shadow on the other hand throughout the book and the series shows how adaptable he is, he takes most things in stride, and learns from previous encounters. Like someone else mentioned, by this point Shadow is learning to read the Gods and not take what they are saying at face value because every word they say is full of metaphors and various layers, they aren't human. I'd wager that it's a further parallel between the old ways and the new ways. The newer generations adapt easier, learn from not only their own mistakes but also the mistakes of our forebearers, and we adapt to the world around us better and don't take things at face value anymore. "Because that's the way it is" is not a reason anymore. In comparison you have a lot of the older generations who are stuck in their youth and are refusing to adapt to the rapidly changing world, and therefore are viewing it as something negative, when it's simply just natural and innevitable change. The entire story at the core is about old vs. new after all and that neither is good or bad, and at the same time both can be good and bad. Even the Old Gods are antagonists to a pretty large degree. That's not to say that the new gods are good, but we have that metaphor in the form of Technical Boy, who is probably the strongest metaphor for the youngest generations. He is a metaphor to how newer generations often lack purpose and just follow whoever leads them and often feel lost, as opposed to the older generations who for better or worse, found a sense of purpose in simpler things even if it meant simply accepting whatever their parents or authority told them, without daring to question it. As for morality: indeed in a way it is pointless. Yet we are plagued by it. It's the price we pay for our minds as humans. Animals will eat their offspring's carcass for survival without much thought. A human would be disgusted at the idea of it even. Animals kill each other for survival on the regular, yet us humans feel bad about eating animals. Morality is a construct, but one that is inherently wired into our brains I'd say and there's not much we can, or even should do about it in most cases. It regulates us. As it should. But personally, I will not feel bad about eating animals. Mother nature is far more brutal between wild animals than what humans do to them after all
People are good at finding all the small differences between one another. Strangely, that feature is also something we all have in common. We are all the same.
doesn't do the book justice at all. a shadow of itself if you excuse me the pun. the show is so heavily steeped in this racial bullshit, and pushing daisies artsy crap that it totally lost the plot of the book. a shame it wasn't cancelled.
once you'll read it, you'll hate the show. good actors and cinematographers will most of the time do an amazing job, regardless of what a hack the showrunner is, and how much he butchers the source material.
Honestly, it kind of deserves it. The show has all these amazing insights and ideas about religion, but it squanders all its time on crass sexual humor and a bullshit uninteresting plot that never develops, not even to speak of that intolerable cunt of a character that is Shadow's girlfriend. I don't think I'd mind if it were cancelled. I've never read it, but I'm sure the book is better, because I don't think Neil Gaiman (one of the most talented fantasy authors of a generation) would write a story the way these Starz producers are writing it.
I would highly recommend the book and the TV Series. Yes it's different, I wasn't expecting it to be exactly the same. Personally I think they nailed the atmosphere Gaiman creates in his books, more than any adaptation before it. Frankly, it's ridiculous to think that Neil wouldn't approve of it as he was a creative consultant (and still is) on the production and every change or addition the writers wanted to make had to get his okay. And if it's got his okay, its got my okay. As for the social/political content in the series: 1. It's just building on the social/political content that was already in the bloody book, 2. You only need to follow Neil for a week on social media to know that he's an incredible and passionate advocate for equality and social justice, and 3. All of the additional material, so far, in this series, although not present in the book 'American Gods', is definitely done in this style of Neil's writing. I felt like the brilliant sequence on the slave ship could have lifted straight out of his Sandman series. So, for all it's deviations (which I don't really care about anyway, and neither does Neil), I think this series has done more to capture the spirit of Neil's work than any previous adaptation
I know the subtext here is pretty much text, but after finishing the novel you'll get to admire "I shall play black" a little extra. Czernobog is the Black god, and Shadow Moon is Baldur, the god of light. this isn't about their skin or hair color, it's about who they are, which is the only thing that matters.
The issue is writing: you can have the best actors, cinematographers, crew, soundtrack and everything else, writing can still break you. By contrast, good writing can get through a shoe string budget with unknown actors and a skeleton crew
Peter Stormare went from being a jerk who gets bit to death by Compies, then plays the devil, then a psychiatrist, then a vampire, and now Czernebog... goddamn he climbed from the bottom and now plays a god... so much respect to this guy's extensive career
Peter Stormare...👏 now that's an actor to appreciate Armageddon Constantine Badboys Wick Even the doctor in until dawn.. This man captivates the audience
This scene is literally what made American Gods the fucking goat. Then the trash that follows after Anansi was removed from the show. I always come back to this scene
My black ass loved this God 😆 he's upfront and says what he says lol i also like his point of view of being the black God (yes i understood he meant dark spirit) "I'll shall play black 😂😂" his laugh gets to me
Subliminally it tells you that America protray black as unfortunate and white is the opposite when actuality it's all just a state of mind. We all are humans that goes through life for the better and for worst, not to mention we all have our own path to fulfill individual purposes. Include the fact of uniquely we all are the same in a unique way.
Separation in how people are viewed, between those that are lighter and darker goes far beyond America. India and China also have a history with this. It still manifests in their media. People will always find more ways to be different, than we will find ways that make us the same.
@@branphillips9546 Indeed. In China, their disdain for darker people comes from a long time ago, in where poorer people that worked the desert fields were made darker from being in the sun all day, while those of higher status were lighter, as a result of almost never being in it. They exemplified this behaviour, by wearing white makeup, to further declare their social difference between themselves and those who did not have. Koreans, like Chinese have been doing this since well before dealing with The West....it shows in their media today. The funny thing about it is that it's not racism when they do it, it's classicism because even up till today, that's all they ever knew a difference in skin tone to mean.
Not only that...Not everything is black or white. It can be gray no matter how much you want to label it as such base on your view point. Černobog means Black god or God of black (God of death) and Bielobog (his brother) means White God or God of white (God of life) but both can be viewed as one in the same...Gray. Just like how humans view gods given the "Good" ones can be very black and the "Bad" ones can be more fair gray than the "Good" could ever be. It all falls on who is viewing them.
The thing is this is Chernobog, the Slavic god of darkness. It dosen't change that what he said is true, but when the living represintation of evil sais it it's changes things
Never saw that show befor and almost didn't hear about it. But it is right.... There is always a good reason for fighting. put two mens next to each other, one is white, the other is black, they'll fight over that. make both of em the same color, they'll fight over their heights or hair colors. make em identical they'll fight over possessions. make em equal in all ways, they'll fight for beliefs for that is our nature.... But not you right? you're not like them do you? you that read that message and believe in world peace, in equality, in universal love.... if you are one of those, then just remember your last fight... hasn't to be a fist fight, just an argument, just a simple mean small talk behind someone's back... what was it about? your boss being a basterd for not paying you what you "deserve"? your employee fucking up while you are so good to him? your school mate that didn't give you somthing? father? mother? a man in the road? How many comments like mine have you answered, telling those that got different believes that they are wrong.... or maybe you didn't even talk but let others do it for you and silently aggree. Pick a side, whicherver you like. it does not matter, war will come, war always come back, as small as it might be.
It's actually metaphorical. Czerno is the black god. His brother is the white god. And they are actually two different aspects of the same god. He's implying people always thought of him as the god of evil, which is silly, because both he and his brother are complementary. They are "grey". Hence the checkerboard. He's not talking about races. He's talking about how silly is to brand something as "evil", because evil is relative, not absolute.
So uh, don’t know if that is from something or not, but if not could I please paraphrase that for some fiction writing. It wouldn’t feel right to simply do so without consent.
Sound words, don't let my minimal used of words downplay your understanding of natural human logic, is good, we'll always fight for something, but it doesn't have to end in bloodshed.
yep thats how the world works, we just need something to seperate on group from the other. For example in medieval times red hair was enough to identefy you as a witch... I am not even certain that this is actually xenophobie or something like that. could just be that we do this to create a feeling of community by making a bunch of people the outsiders/enemies. Could also explain why some rulers start wars
Although I am not of Slavic ancestry, the scenes with Slavic pantheon sparked my interest in finding out about Czernebog and the three Zoryas and the rest of the pre christian slavic deities.
I have Northern Slav/Balt heritage, and from what little research I have done into my people from the Pre-Christian is that, like most polytheistic beliefs, their “Gods” were based in nature/natural phenomenon. Furthermore, not surprisingly, there are not a whole lot of pagan references left, as most were destroyed by the early Christians. There is a small, but growing movement in Eastern Europe to “rekindle” the lost cultural tradition; however, I fear that it will be little more than a passing craze because so much has been lost and have so little to go on. The new “gods” are here to stay.
At the end of the book, Shadow goes back to Czernobog to hold up his end of the checkers deal. When he kneels down, Czernobog lightly taps him on the head with the hammer and says "I missed." When Shadow questions him, he asks him "You are Czernobog, right?" To which Czernobog tells him "Yes, but tomorrow I will be Bielobog." After the war Wednesday and World orchestrated was brought to an end, the old gods started looking towards the future again, even old Czernobog.
There are examples of great casting and Peter Stormare as Chernobog was nothing short of perfect. The man can be a chameleon in how he can disappear into the character.
"You're Black...Right?" They had to have stolen that line from me? Nobody can right anything like that unless they got it from me. ha. They hack my phone for all the good ones.
Kipruto Bett Not to be condescending or nit-picky, but technically you’re wrong... Czernobog/Chernobog refers to the same God: The Black God. Where as the brother he refers to is instead Belobog: The White God. Whether or not they’re actually same person is debatable. It’s simply a difference in spelling between all the different Slavic languages. Czern means black, and so does Chern.
There's strong evidence to suggest that the Bantu peoples of central Africa may have carried out a genocide on the native peoples of now south africa. So I guess it doesn't matter how minor the differences are, death will always find a way
People have a intrinsic need for hierarchies and order. It's how we make sense of the world. Doesn't necessarily mean our assumptions are correct though.
He isn't talking about prejudice. He's talking about assuming evil is an absolute concept. He's the "black god", while his brother is the "white god", but they are actually one and the same.
Bryan Fuller and Michael Green were the Showrunners for the first season. Due to the high cost they were requesting for the show, they were fired and Jesse Alexander was brought on as Showrunner for season 2. Now Jesse has been replaced by Charles Eglee for the third season. Charles is the one that doesn't want to bring back Anansi due to the character's very aggressive racial stances/messages. Bryan, Michael, and Jesse clearly had no problem adapting the more controversial and nuanced aspects of all the gods. This is the reason Anansi got fired.
Yeeeeeah you triggered homie. You're comparing apples to elephants 😂😂 His name translates to Black God and all he's doing is relating how even in a land where there are no dark skinned people, his countrymen still found a way to discriminate against one another by the color of their hair and eyes all while letting Moon know he's aware of what dark skinned people go thru. Plus he's riling him up for the game that comes up next, but yeah you and everyone else who's making this comparison is way off. Dude's the god of winter when everything dies from crops to people and he's Black as in bleak, that's the "negative" connotation. His blonde brother is spring; new life, and his name translates to White God based on today's modern programming but it was Shining God, aka the 🌞......they also aren't brothers in the stories but actually one god, depending on the season dictates which one he is on some duality shit, but you have to be familiar with pantheon's outside Yoruba and Jesus to understand that
May seem weird, but in Russia Caucasians (non-nordic almost 100% Muslim tribes from Caucasus mountains) are called "blacks" and this is as rude and disrespectful as n-word in the US.
In a country where there’s not much history of racism it’s interesting to hear that they still discriminate.. it’s human nature to attack or feel threatened by ppl that are different.. he’s basically saying the concept of racism is stupid which I agree but in America there’s a deep dark history that we’ve never truly dealt with.. we will continue to fight over color until we all burn.. no ones wants to deal with sins of our past nowadays it’s “ohh that was 50-60 years ago I wasn’t even alive get over it” that kind of thinking repeats the cycle...
Then just don’t think about it. Make your own new luck, your own new fate, your own new destiny. All of which are untied from the sins of the past. Forget about bringing back the dark deeds of the past, because people will either be defensive about it or demand for blood and vengeance. In the end, you’ll just have people today fighting over the same battles that were fought hundreds of years ago. You said no one wants to deal with the sins of the past. That is true not only in America, but also in every country that has their own racist problem (whether big or small). Except here’s the problem in your argument: “getting over it” is the best solution. Arguing more about past sins only reopen the wounds of the past and incur more heartaches, emotion, anger, and eventually, collateral damage. Rather, it is through the elevation of one’s race in the socio-economic and cultural ladder, rather than arguing about privileges and the sins of the fathers, guarantees the end of the racism problems and makes sure that they are being held in more equal respect. Take, for example, how different were Asians treated in 1800s America, 1900s America, and 2000s America. The last 2 centuries showed clear disdain towards Chinese, Japanese, and other Asian people. There are even policies that discriminates openly against Asians. Why so? Because in the opinion of the people of this land (that is, the white Americans, who are the majority in population and in government), Asians are poor, uncultured people. Given the time period that shows China being conquered by opium and European opium vendors, Japan was merely a feudal society that started to embrace the modern world, and that most of Asia was a European colony, such view was not wrong. The 1900s saw Japan rising as a new political rival in the Pacific and later enemy, while the end of European influence in Asia saw many new countries in Asia caught in the fight between the West and communism. The 1900s saw some bad treatment of Asian populations in America like the detaining of Japanese-Americans during WW2, but there were some progress made towards a better understanding and treatment as more Asian families already planted their roots in America and worked through their American Dream. The 2000s and even the latter half of the 20th century shows that Asians are able to compete with their Western counterparts, both in America and in their respective countries. Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, China, India, Vietnam, and other Asian countries are showing to be the new leaders of the global economy and industry. As a result, many are either respectful to their Asian counterparts or seething with jealousy. The latter would occasionally come up with racist rhetorics to hurt the Asians, yet it never swayed the public opinion very much. Even in times of crisis like the threat China brings to the US or the COVID-19 pandemic that originated in Asia, while it has led to occasional racist treatments against Asians in certain localities, such events hasn’t been able to completely change the public’s opinion against Asians or even specific Asian people groups. Speaking of those racist treatments in certain localities, I have never heard of a small racist infraction against Asians that turned into a massive, nationwide demonstration complete with stores on fire. COVID-19 hasn’t led to that, nor does evictions of Asian people from certain buildings or facilities. The biggest uproar I’ve heard about an act of racism against an Asian in the US so far was when United Airlines kicked out that Asian doctor, yet after some angry comments in social media, it blew off and never heard anymore. Maybe it’s worth trying to not put too much attention at correcting past mistakes or demanding justice, but rather choose to demand for internal conversations about reforms and improvements within each race. Rather than blaming your current woes to external factors (no matter how true it is), would it be better to try fixing it internally as much as possible before addressing the need for external reforms?
remove culture nationalism racial identity ideology make them all learn the same alter history remove the past teach one language see if that solves some problems over a dozen generations.
