The late Aminah Assilmi & journalist Deborah Scroggins in a friendly discussion and debate at the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, on November 7, 1992.
Our mother Aminah, may Allah SWT be pleased with you & grant you the highest degrees of the Paradise with our leader Prophet Mohammed PBUH. For the first time I see you & when coming to comment I knew that you passed away. I can't help hide my sadness.
I just found out about her death( rahimaki Allah ya okhtana) and while looking up her age at time of death1945-2010 (65 yrs old) it is exactly the age of Khadijah (wife of our prophet Mohammad pbuh) when she passed away. I just found it a curious coincidence or maybe not!! May Allah be pleased with both of them!!! Salam!
This is a good debate. Both parties to the debate presented themselves in the most respectable way, unlike the case with most similar debates. This is commendable. Well done Aminah. Well done Deborah. Well done the moderator ad the audience.
Tao-- thanks for your comment. I have read Acts 21 in context and nowhere does it indicate that the disciples' lives were in danger. Yes, Paul's life was in danger because the Jews thought (quite rightly) that he was teaching against the keeping of the Jewish Law. The disciples did not teach against the Jewish Law and hence there was no controversy with them. The disciples then tell Paul to go and do the sacrifice, specifically in order to negate the "rumour" that Paul does not follow the Law.
I just watch this vid on 2019.. and i pray to Allah SWT that placed my sister Aminah Assilmi in jannatul firdaus with all of ulama and prophets.. aamiin
(part 3) And remember, the main problem remains unresolved. In Acts 15, the disciples still agree that the Gentile believers must abstain from meat sacrificed to idols. Nowhere in his letters to Gentile Christians does Paul ever remind them of this, or even make any mention of it. To the contrary, in 1 Corinthians 8, he teaches them the opposite-- eating meat sacrificed to idols is no big deal (to him); it's all about how you feel inside and what your conscience says. This contradicts Acts 15.
Continuing from my latest response, it is clear from Acts 15 1-24 that the disciples did not want the new believers in Jesus to be burdened with temple sacrifices. As I stated in my previous post it is quite evident that the disciples did not want new believers saddled with Jewish law which in their view Jesus has fulfilled. Looking forward to your response on this. Thanks
الله يرحمك يا امينه السلمي ويتجاوز عنك ويجعل قبرك روظه من رياض الجنه ويدخلك الجنه مع الأنبياء والصديقين من غير سابق حساب ولا سابق عذاب وجميع المسلمين والمسلمات انه على ذلك قدير وصلى الله على سيدنا محمد وعلى آله وصحبه وسلم والحمد لله رب العالمين
Tobygeral, thanks for your response. You have some good points about the temple sacrifice regarding the disciples. However, I caution that you should have quoted your verses in context. It is clear from Acts 21 that if the disciples did not participate in temple sacrifices their very lives were in danger. Specifically with Paul he had to do it based on the advice of his companions in order to avoid trouble, see Acts 21:23. Disciples and Paul did not teach about temple sacrifices.
mashaallah beautiful lecture and Allah subhaanau wataalaa raabil aalaamin creator of all things unseen give the late sister jannathul firdous....ameeen. and one who do the debate...Allah subhaanau wataalaa guide her to the knowledge of truth lightness and powerful in islaam inshallah
subhan allah , the west was attacking islam even bfr even 11/9 , now i can feel how much our brothers and sister are suffering out there , in USA and elswhere
I acknowledge the good things in the West as well.... maybe not in this thread/discussion, but I do acknowledge the good in societies and people everywhere.
(part 3) In fact, to the contrary, in 1 Corinthians 8, Paul actually contradicts the Jerusalem Edict and tells his Corinthian followers that they *can* eat meat sacrificed to idols if they want, because it's all relative to your conscience and how you feel. This is in direct contradiction to what we see in Acts 21 where the disciples have agreed that Gentiles should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols (no "ifs", "buts" or exceptions).
In Hebrew, there is also "ELOH". This is the word that Jesus uses when he says "ELO-i, ELO-i, Lama sabachtani?" (My Eloh, My Eloh, why have you forsaken me?). The plural form of ELOH is used in Genesis 1:1-- "ELOH-im".
(part 2) So in short, Paul sacrifices at the Temple in order to prove that he is not teaching against the Law. This appears to be disingenuous because, as you said (and I agree with you), Paul actually taught *against* Temple sacrifices and the Law. So it seems to be a charade. Also notice that the disciples had all agreed that the Gentile converts should not eat meat sacrificed to idols. In none of his letters does Paul mention this "Jerusalem Edict" for the Gentiles.
Yeah, at least the uploader (me) approves your comments *unless there's vulgarity in it*. That's better than what can be said for most anti-Islam videos where my comments never get through.
Qur'an 4:19-- "O ye who believe! You are forbidden from accepting women WITHOUT THEIR WILL, or to treat them with harshness." The Qur'an answered you 1400 years ago. I guess you're still stuck in the 7th century.
In other words, you're happy and comfortable with your head in the sand. Good for you. You don't need Muslims to convince you that the Bible has been changed and corrupted. Go to a Christian group called the Catholics. They are the largest Church in the world, and the largest Bible-believers in the world. But guess what, their Bible is different from your Bible. Seems like someone corrupted the Bible to me. As for the Bible being older... well, the Bhagavid-Gita is older than the Bible!
Yes, I do believe that Paul started certain aspects of Christianity, such as the abandonment of the OT Laws (all the original Jewish followers of Jesus continued to observe Temple sacrifice, the Sabbath, the prohibition on pork, etc.), the idea that women are responsible for original sin (Jesus never taught this), that there is no remission of sins without blood (the OT prophets and Jesus did not teach this), that meat sacrificed to idols can be eaten,etc.Thank you also for the polite discussion
Yes, Genesis says that Eve ate the fruit and gave some to her husband; it does NOT say that all of mankind is "born in sin" as a result. This is why the Jews, who have been reading the Torah for much longer than you and me, do not believe in the concept of (inherited) Original Sin. As for the disciples, they were still sacrificing in the Temple in Acts 21, and Paul even joins in in Acts 21:26. Never mind who the sacrifice is for; why should Paul join in on Temple sacrifice?
Hi Toby I have been moving so I have not had a chance to check my gmail lately. Thanks however for your latest response. Yes it is true that the disciples did not teach against Jewish Law, but think about it , they were in Jerusalem the heart of Judaism, for them to introduce anything new would have been disastrous that is why they even urged Paul to do the sacrifice, but look at the instructions they gave to the new believers outside Jerusalem, please see Acts 15 1-24.
If your friend is telling you that he/she has lived in Saudi and is personally attesting to the "fact" that Saudi women have no legal rights, then you've been hoodwinked, pure and simple. Your friend has lied to you.
(part 2) Think about it. Had the Jewish Christians started eating pork or breaking the Sabbath, it would have caused a huge controversy and there is no way that the NT documents would not mention any such controversy. I say, they observed the Law because it never occured to them, as pious Jews, to ever break God's Law. You say that they continued to observe the Law just in order to be seen of Jews and in order to deceive them and avoid trouble/controversy.
As I said to you, it's all very nice in theory. I do wish it worked like that in reality, but it doesn't. About America, I do agree with you that it's screwed up in many ways. How on earth do they allow anybody to buy guns as in a supermarket? Even a great part of the film industry is quite mad. I don't think America is the pinnacle of moral values, but there are good people as well. If you live there you'll know that's true.
The direct interpretation of the Quran verses relating to the creation of the universe and the creation of man fully agrees with the contemporary scientific understanding, including the concepts of evolution and the big bang/ initial singularity. A comprehensive research is published in Arabic Language with some limited articles in English Language, could be viewed at www.islamandsciencetoday.com
And I've come to the conclusion that America is not the solution to the world's problems. To you your way, and to me mine. I have no problem with that. But the minute America tries to force America on the Muslim world, under the false pretext that Islam is too aggressive for America's liking, there is a problem.
Toby, from your post i am concluding that you think Paul started christianity. Paul did not start christianity. Jesus Christ started christianity see Matt 16:18. And talking about light, Jesus said He is the light of the world. See John 8:12. Jesus did not just made claims, He backed them up with astounding miracles that even his opposition could not deny please read John 9. God calls people to be prophets not angels. By the way thanks for engaging in a polite discussion with me.
You see only that part of Western society, but you ignore the good side with all the advances that it has achieved. Everything goes together: the freedom of people has played a big part in its achievements.
Quran is what make reality beautiful and correct you and give you correct view of life and make you better person. Quran is from god you will not find any mistake and you find it complete and perfect. Quran has best system for your life. read it and you will find the truth and what really you want. read it just for curiosity.
Understand this-- most Muslim women who wear the hijab are happy to do so. If you say that this is not *truly* their choice because their society conditions them and limits their choices, fine. But if this is what you define as force, then western women are also "forced" to dress down-- for their boyfriends, for their bosses, for job interviews, etc.
Toby the aspects of christianity that you believe Paul started were all fulfilled in Jesus Christ. After the death and resurrection of Jesus, I do not find any where in the NT where the apostles went to the temple to sacrifice animals for their own sins. They went to the temple for sure but not to bring their own lambs for sin offering. About original sin, Genesis says Eve ate the fruit and gave some to her husband. It was not Paul. Lastly Jesus shed his blood to atone for our sins. Thanks.
Yes, all cults start the same way religions start-- by saying that an angel of God appeared to someone. You think Christianity is an exception? Almost all of Jesus' teachings to obey the Commandments are overturned by the claim of ONE MAN who says he saw a LIGHT-- see Acts 26:13. Yes, you're right-- demons can turn themselves into angels of light. Paul claimed to see LIGHT. His new religion became:"There is no god but Jesus, and Paul is His Messenger." A different religion from that of Jesus.
A very slick attempt on your part to try to instigate a Sunni-Shia debate. I don't blame you; the Qur'an says that there are mischief-makers who claim to be peace-makers, and God knows and understands their plans well. Sorry I didn't take the bait.
I'm not against hijabs and dressing modestly at all. That is the least of my complaints about Islam. I don't feel forced to dress down, though it's true that many girls are influenced by the media and dress inappropriately, in my opinion. I'm not a die-hard defender of the western culture, I only think that on the whole it works better despite the shortcomings. Sometimes I feel the whole world sucks, but at least here I can express my opinion. I couldn't do that in Muslim countries.
Yes, that's right. I'm not defending westerners and their practices; Western culture is secular. But it puzzles me that men coming from the cradle of Islam, where piety is all around, indulge in that sort of behavior whenever they can. I've been to Bahrain and heard what the locals say about them when they come across the bridge on weekends. It seems that religious values haven't really sank in.
I am a free american woman and I don't need any hijab. I just had a breast augmentation a butt augmentation, I had laser treatment on my legs so I don't have to shave everyday. I tattooed my makeup on so when I wake or go to bed my husband can not see me without make up. I had my hair extensions and i bleach my hair every 2 weeks to do away with my dark roots. Now I need to go puke my lunch I had eaten so I can stay thin. i need surgery on my feet because of the high heels i wear....
The problem with your view is that it ascribes deceit and deception to the disciples. It means they were saying one thing but they really meant another. I did read Acts 15 and there is no contradiction. The disciples agreed that the *non-Jews* (Gentiles) did not have to keep all the Jewish laws except a few (no fornication, no meat sacrificed to idols, etc.), but it was taken for granted that *Jewish* Christians would continue to obey the Law, as they did.
As for women being responsible for the honour of the whole family (at least we have intact families and marriage is not an endangered institution for us), that is not the sole responsibility of the woman. It is culture that sometimes places this as a sole responsibility on the woman. The best cure to honour killings is Islam, because the murderer should be given capital punishment according to the Shari`ah (not 5 years in jail with Internet access).
I'm not American and I don't particularly like it, though it has good things too. I don't like its foreign policy and many of European countries. They should not interfere unless there's a real danger. You should sort out your own mess and that won't be an easy task. But killing innocent people who are watching a marathon is disgusting too. I do hope you don't defend such actions. Honestly, many times I get sick of this world. I wish you well, may god bless you and give you peace.
The logic cannot get any worse. Clearly, alcohol-consumption in the Muslim world occurs more frequently than honour-killings. So by your logic, Islam is not really against alcohol-consumption, otherwise it would not be prevalent in many Muslim countries. This is simply bad argumentation.
As much as I dislike lots of things in Western culture, I think it's fair to say that,right now, people are better off with its system than in Muslim countries. Many Muslims in the West can live up to the idealized vision of Islam (I do wish it was the general view), and enjoy the freedoms of these countries. I do hope that this trend eventually transforms Islam for the better.
The logic is, in the West people are striving to improve things and respond to new challenges. The governments may be crap, but people have the freedom of movement to work towards that goal. You are just looking at the faults of the West to justify your own. The horrible things that happen in the West are punishable by the law. As long as you treat women as property, awful things will happen. Women are responsible for the honor of the whole family, that's very dangerous.
I believe that the Qu'ran states everything that Sister Aminah says-- however this is very different from how Islamic cultures and countries in very many parts of the world actually treat women. In African countries, girls are married off at ten years of age to older men without her consent.As witnessed by my friend, a woman in Saudi Arabia has absolutely no rights at all. She can't leave her home without her husband's permission.She can't drive, move in public alone,or have legal rights.
I think it's a bit more subjective than that. To people who have gone to extremes in their own immodesty and loss of sexual ethics, Islam may indeed seem a bit extreme. Let's put it this way, human laws against jay-walking may seem extreme to squirrels and rats.... human laws against defecating on a public sidewalk may seem extreme to cats.... human laws (even in the West) against public indecency or nudity may seem extreme to monkeys in the jungle. It's quite relative.
