there's one additional thing, Hugo calls the Mahabre carving "The wall of enlightenment", adding more of less the final link between the god and the book also the Amon sigil is on the Book of Enlightenment's second page as the third symbol at the top of the page
@@hugoguzman4985 there's not much more to this particular datamine than what's shown in the video. I've posted it in one of the comments below but the only other stuff not in the video is that the beetle sigil between Vinushka and Gro-goroth is called Turkil and the sigil that's next to the God of the Depths as Sarko. Turkil may be a reference to the character Turkilo from the Pocketcat book in Termina and there's a fan theory that Sarko is a star god (I might make a video on that in the future).
Something interesting to point out about the Sun's relation to Order is the fact that the Order soul only takes place on specifically Summer Solstice, aka the day with the most amount of sunlight in the year. In comparison, the Chaotic soul only takes place on Winter Solstice, aka the day with the least amount of sunlight in the year, or in other words the most amount of moonlight in the entire year. And Chaos fits Rher pretty well.
@@MautheDoog I truly mean no offense, unless you want to, of course. We can decide the fate of the Sun god (gro-goroth vs true king) in a caged match using frying pans as weapons and the loser has to do a face reveal stream in a bathtub ~jk
There is a decent theory that Turkil is actually the animal god. And that is because of the Termina version of the 'Tales of the Pocketcat' books strangely enough. A specific character in those books called 'Turkilo' a beetle man. The sigil of turkil looks like a beetle as well, and there is a Finnish beetle called 'Turkkilo' which is significant cuz the creator is finnish. If you read the books, the message becomes pretty clear about the idea of 'survival of the fittest' which fits animals. Keep in mind that the God of Nature doesn't seem to have animals under its domain, instead focusing on the flora/plants or the natural landscape like the wind, volcanos etc.
@@flyingstonemon3564 depths seems to overlap with other gods as well. For example, the god who holds dominion over the ocean is likely Vinushka as the skin bible describes him as though he also holds the natural landscape itself like volcanos or the wind. And depths certainly holds the deep ocean (its design is based on the USS Saratoga), deep sea creatures like the Maneba enemy or the upcoming lamprey enemy and leechmonger ring. So depths will just overlap a little with Turkil with the animals that are forgotten/in darkness like insects.
@@ryohei7897 I see, he's the Decayer of the other elements and the vermin. So he's a bit everywhere as a result, makes sense alright. Can't help but think about Egyptian Beetles having an important role in their oldest pantheon and soul work...
Oh, also note with the color of gold being associated with the sun in many mythologies, the new gods are known for making use of the color gold, from Nash'rah's followers of the yellow mages, to the yellow king of madness, to Francóis and the golden throne. the cover of fear and hunger 2 also shows Rher obscuring a golden glow behind him, perhaps Rher's envy is meant to prevent an imposter sun god, or the return of the True King?
@@hauntedholiday4250 gold and sun are two very related concepts in alchemy. The Sun is like the celestial counterpart of the earthly gold and they are both represent the idea of perfection. In Fear & Hunger though, I think gold is used as a metaphor for domination.
@@shadowtheaxolotl I agree, I think you're exactly right, gold is associated with; and a symbol of domination, and what's more dominant than a true king? I suspect Le'Garde and Francois in particular sought to become the new true king of Mahabre, and so assumed mockeries of him. Although that latter part's just my headcanon for now.
@@shadowtheaxolotl I'd see it both as a duality of transcendence and domination, as this is the object of everything we see that is yellow in the games. So far all who have actively sought freedom from domination have used it to dominate others since power means nothing without violence - one cannot be lifted up without pushing all others beneath.
@@hauntedholiday4250 Also, there is weirdly fact about legarde being the men in the prophecy....who made this prophecy and why? intersting enought his company was the knight of the midnight sun. Maybe...legard saw mahabre in his dreams?
I think funger 3 will be about the return of magic during the modern day. The king returns, and when he does, humanities artificial world is confronted with the deterioration of the border between reality and fantasy, as reality was just a cage we built around fantasy in this universe
I like that. I personally think F&H3 will be about the end/extreme of the new era brought by the machine god created at the end of the game (just like F&H2 is about the end of the era created by the god born at the end of the first game, and that game is the end of the previous era); being a modern/futuristic setting and dealing with the relationship between humanity and technology. The return of magic and the mystical could contrast very well with that.
@@Mantosastothis is the same thing I believed as well, we’ll see the return of magic, of the old ways coming back to a world that had almost entirely forgotten it in its entirety. Maybe taking place on a orbital station or on the moon/rahr, namely cause abella’s I think S ending out right stares she went on to work on a budding space program.
finally, a theory on the sun god that actually makes sense! congratulations good sir! Perhaps if Rher is trying to prevent mankind's ascension to godhood, the sun god could be trying to allow mankind to climb higher too? perhaps even to bring about his return?
I agree about the Sun God but I can't agree that the sun god is Gro-Goroth. That just gives Gro-Goroth too many stuffs. Gods are primordial entities, each possesses a "definition" that construct the world. Gro-Goroth can't be both "destruction" and "the sun". Also, Sylvian is Gro-Goroth's antithesis and if Gro-Goroth was the sun, the what was Sylvian supposed to be so that she can be the sun's antithesis? The sun, meanwhile, is not just a thing on the sky but also related to many things in alchemy and magic. It's a symbol of order and enlightenment. My theory is Sylvian and Gro-Goroth are the first deities and others are their children (they are the biggest symbol on the clock)
Why can't grogoroth be destruction and the sun? Apollo was the god of music, medicine and plagues. Gods can have extremely disparate domains under the same umbrella. Poseidon was the god of horses, earthquakes and the sea.
@@lolwtfbbq111 2 reasons. One, Because old gods are primordial concept. Apollo is a god who was made by human. All those things you mentioned, "music, medicine and plagues" are but human concept. Those things only exist because human exist. Same with Poseidon and most of the mythological gods. The old gods are primordial concepts that do not change with human's mind so you cannot draw comparison from mythological gods to them. In fact I'd say most mythological gods are new gods in Fear and Hunger universe with very few exception (Tiamat is the only exception as she inspired Sylvian). Two, Old gods in Fear and Hunger are primordial deities that exist long before anything else exist in the universe. They are, at core just one concept that made up the universe. That's why Gro-Goroth cannot be both "the Sun" and "Destruction", simply because those are two completely different concepts. The Sun is a fire that burn itself. It is like a combination of destruction and creation like Vinushka unlike Gro-Goroth of pure destruction. Destruction is the anti-thesis of Creation. Gro-Goroth and Sylvian. The sun (related to the facade of Order or the consciousness of mankind and Enlightenment) is also the anti-thesis of the moon (related to the true and ugly face under the facade or the sub-consciousness and the Wall that stop anyone from reaching enlightenment). Amon and Rher. We can see clearly that those are different concepts with different anti-thesis. If you argued Gro-Goroth was the sun god, then Sylvian would be Rher cuz she has to be the sun's antithesis too. And we know she was not the moon.
My brain was mind blown by this, so I would like to share some of my thoughts. What if Amon chose to become dormant because he knew that mankind would one day overthrow the Gods all on their own. Not only that, he allowed the lizardmen , and later down the line, humans as well, because he isn't obsessive of his position as a God King nor jealous of mankind's potential of being more than what they are unlike his counterpoint, the Moon God
Wtf, earlier this year I'd watch and rewatch F&H lore videos like it was a part time job and I'd never heard of this white room with the masks or how you'd access it. Once again I'm shocked by how much detail goes in to Termina, damn
Love the video!!! one tip man, work on articulation, your voice can sometimes be hard to listen to because you sometimes aren't clear, keep it up champ!
Great seeing another video of yours after so long, and with some delicious lore discussion to boot! Loved the visuals and VAs you put to use (that Zeta fella does a great Enki, I say), and that whole Pocketcat sequence was superb. Plus I can't enough of seeing that silly avatar of yours dancing about!
I have played so much Funger 2 but I have never played Funger 1, everything I know about it is from wiki articles and youtube videos...I have never heard of that dragon XD 20:30
Lets not forget the rise of the humanity and the breaking of the chains that tethered us to the old gods is and was the birth of All-Mer. Any discussion of the sun god ends with the birth of All Mer.
The part with Pocket Cat alone makes this entire video gold! I also really love how this video isn’t just the Sun God = Gro-Goroth because while I believe that that’s technically’s true, I’m definitely one of those fans who believes that Amon is a combo of a Pure Vessel (All-Mer)+Traces of an Old God (Gro-Goroth.) Just wanted to point out that it is heavily implied that Osa’a is from the Funger equivalent of Northern Africa (his name is Middle Eastern) where…Egypt is located! This video gives a lot of credence to the idea that Amon gifted humankind souls, but also added a lot more Robert Chambers lore lol (apologies to our fishy Lovecraftkin.) Amon and the Sulfur God really are two sides of the same coin although I think that that’s one of the reasons why Rher hates humanity (enLIGHTenment is Rher’s thing dang it.) The Yellow King after all is associated with madness, a play, a masquerade, a person with a creepy-face-but-also-is-a-metaphor-for-the-darkness-within-us…
You say that Amon was the one to gift humankind souls, but there is arguably a better candidate for that, being the Star God. We know that there is a Star God as the White Mold Apartments has a Pegasus constellation, the man raving about the stars and there being the giant horse head statue. And we also know that horsemask cultists exist due to the museum showing 4 animal masks for different old gods (wolf for Gro-Goroth, bunny for Sylvian). And there is a 5-pointed god sigil that would fit the Star god as well. Now the interesting thing about soul types is that they actually work and influence you to a large degree, and Henryk explicitly calls them zodiac signs, with souls also being called birth signs in both games. Zodiac signs (the actual symbol representing the soul type) come from the star constellation that the Sun is blocking out in 12 30-degree sectors, and the soul chart shows 24 15-degree sectors, double the amount (+ 4 special souls on exclusively Solstice and Equinox days). So the symbols that the soul types have will be star constellations. As such, if any god gave humanity the gift of souls then the Star God would most likely be the one to do so. This also connects the Star God to fate, given souls do determine your fate. O'saa also says a line about looking at how the stars align, determining your fate when you fight him. And Fortune and Divination magic does exist given the Fortune Teller's magic is very accurate.
@@ryohei7897 Honestly, I think the whole thing about humanity gaining souls was actually an unforeseen side effect, as All-Mer had to “purify” himself and such in order to ascend. The fact that Amon, the Sulfur God, and the Star God exist is because human souls exist and vice-versa is what I’m saying I guess? Amon is kind of a representation of Gro-Goroth and Sylvian put together, which is how All-Mer “ascended” since his body was created by Sylvian via Vitruvia and he was imbued with the traces of Gro-Goroth. Of course the Sulfur God is what All-Mer had to throw away (or more like what was left behind) in order for him to become a pure vessel in order to ascend. And then, because of the whole souls thing due to All-Mer basically undergoing alchemical transmutation (the green lion eating the sun,) cleansed in green acid to reveal the gold (sulphur = heavenly soul in alchemy) hidden in his formerly base body, he was finally able to harbor a soul leaving the Sulfur God behind in the pits…and then The Star God was born as a result. I’m deeply sorry for this paragraph I am a nerd 🙃
@@alexandragabitto2573 the purify concept is intersting because it remind me of gro goroth rant about them being pure but not mortal who are to greedy and unpure and grogorh offering to see the true face of mankind and the chararter just shut down and dies.
As someone else already mentioned please don't edit your voice when reading this passages! because I'm not a native English speaker and with your accent plus the edits I really don't know what you're saying. I like to listen to these videos rather than watch them like a podcast so I can't read the passages that you present. other than that great video I hope you keep doing them and yeah you earned a new subscriber
Dont know if anyone has mentioned this already, but the characters in the book of enlightenment look very much like ancient chinese seal script. Wonder if it actually is?
i remember someone a while ago compared the symbols in the Book of Enlightenment with Bone Oracle Script or something, could be interesting to look into
Personal theory is that Le'Garde actually _is_ the prophesied King of Mahabre. His lack of a soul means he is a homunuculus designed to become Alll-Mer (thus born of a virgin mother) but that this was usurped by the god that became Alll-Mer/Sulfur - notice that Alll-mer's hands have no fingers and look like they were specifically designed to be nailed upon a cross, whereas the literature depicts a person that looks like Le'Garde. So it is that the prevailing myth is the prophecy that should have been fulfilled by Le'Garde, but Enki is correct in what actually happened. By the time of Funger 1 he is either unnaturally old, created at the same time as the usurper or possibly at the time when such a prophecy should have come to pass and has partial knowledge of his destiny which was stolen (note that Funger 1 takes place in the 16th century, often considered to be the early Enlightenment - don't think this has much weight in the lore really but an interesting parallel to our own history), by Funger 2 he is determined to regain his seat but has changed at the end of his (very bloody) journey and only wishes for humanity to have its own destiny.
I have a theory: that Amon create the mechanicsm to reach true mahabre and become a new god while Rher dosent wanted because it dislike the lack of purity of human because it know their shadows. gro gogorth said they lack purity and he is disgusted by them. I wonder if being a new gods was a mechanicsm of amon to people to asend or a trap. Maybe the other reason Rher didnt want this to happen is because it knew it was matter of time to truly asent to old god status.
@@YwY-ct5yq The reason for the disappearance of the True King (the Sun god) is never disclosed. I took some liberty to speculate about it at the final segment. I might go back into and share some reasons for why that was my conclusion it in a future video about Alll-mer.
The New God names are based on their respective soul type (e.g. Enlightened One for the enlightened soul, Tormented One, Dominating One etc.) However, in the Soul Chart that Miro the creator posted on Twitter, the heartless soul type is not there. Miro clarifies by saying that this is going to be a retcon. She's probably just going to be renamed to the 'Gladiatorial One' or something instead but yeah.
@@TateFischer-q1s The Hall of the Gods state about the Old gods: "They have not been present in the memories of any of us." So we can conclude that humans took over Ma'habre only after the disappearance of the True King (Sun god)
@@Synchro-tq1mo 21:17 you can see me entering Hugo's house. Irc Marina confirms it's his house in a party talk. There is a bunch of scattered notes in the ground and I just reorganized them for the video.
Turkil (beetle looking sigil between Gro-Goroth and Vinushka sigils) and Sarko (Star looking sigil, next to Depths sigil) respectively. They are suspected to be the Animal God and Star God respectively in the theory and lore channel for the official fear and hunger discord server. Turkil is more up for debate but the Star God is pretty strong for a theory now as Sarko.
The code refers to the sigil that's located between Vinushka and Gro-goroth as Turkil in the code and the sigil that's next to the God of the Depths as Sarko. Turkil may be a reference to the character Turkilo from the Pocketcat book in Termina and there's a fan theory that Sarko is a star god (I might make a video on that in the future).
This is an amazing video, with great points and an interesting presentation, which leaves me waiting for more content from your channel. But, this video is obviously wrong, the sun god, is gro-goroth. Yeah. Really.
