As a new foiler I’m now very happy I went with Armstrong from the get go. There’s an initial steep learning curve that no one is going to bypass and there are very few products that are going to make a dramatic difference in smoothing out that curve. The more stable foils, which will make it slightly more comfortable early on will be outgrown quickly as you’re going to want to turn and bank within weeks or days of learning. At which point you’ll be lamenting your ‘beginner’ foil. I would say if you’re struggling try a shorter mast length. As well as a smaller wing. If you find yourself lifting too quickly or breaching very quickly the wing may be too large for your intended purposes. Of course positioning comes into play (shift weight forward or more front foot pressure if you’re breaching), but a smaller wing allows you to adapt more gradually to the lift as your speed increases. FYI, the initial acceleration is going to have a lot to do with how quickly the foil lifts. When I kite foil I can slow down that acceleration with the kite. If I’m prone foil surfing, the steeper and more powerful the wave, the faster the acceleration and the quicker the lift. In surfing, you’re mostly at the mercy of the wave. As in the wave will dictate when you lift rather than it being your decision. Just yesterday I was surfing a steeper wave and kept breaching on takeoff. Switched out the 1550 for the 1250 and problem solved. Sometimes you can get around this a bit by changing your take off position-as in shoulder hopping, always ideal, sometimes you just don’t have that option. In my limited experience, I’ve found that longer period swells- 13 seconds and up- will accelerate quickly relative to a short period wind wave of the same size. So check your wave period before you go. It’s a good idea to have at least 2 wings to change out as conditions are always changing. I use a 1550&1250 to surf, and a 1250 & 1050 for kiting. Always travel with both-Murphy’s law- if you bring one wing-it’ll be the wrong wing. Of course you can always adjust your mast placement in a pinch if you haven’t another wing to swap out. Do yourself a favor and start with a high quality carbon foil. I’ve seen at least a half dozen aluminum masts that were bent from hitting the bottom or in shorepound. I don’t have the luxury of a deep water foiling spot for prone foiling and I’ve slammed my armstrong masts and wings into the bottom more times than I can count. No hyperbole. I’d hit the bottom several times a session early on and still do on occasion. It’s just something that’s inevitable when you’re learning if shallow depths are an issue. The foil has held up amazingly well. I have a few scrapes on the paint. Pretty impressive considering several high speed collisions. I’m certain I’d have wrecked an aluminum mast at this point, or two. Armstrong and Lift are both quality carbon foils. -Not an Armstrong rep
Thanks for the info; I'm newer than you; about to start wingfoiling after 15 years of periodic kiting. One question: why did you buy HS wings rather than CF wings? (I read that the CFs are easier, and thus better during the learning stage...)
@@Bill-in-SF To be honest I just talked to a guy I knew at Real Watersports and he steered my towards the HS series. I’ve kited and surfed with him before. So I guess he concluded that would fit my style? I didn’t question it much so it’s the only reason I can think of as to why he steered me towards those. I also told him my end goal was to foil and kite surf as close to traditional board surfing as was possible on a foil. I did struggle to learn. But I also learned in the ocean which is definitely a challenge as every wave acts on the foils pitch. So I can’t say how I would’ve fared on the CF. But I would guess I would’ve been up and riding and turning more quickly those initial few weeks had I had the CF. I am certain that I wouldn’t be riding and turning as well as I am now if I hadn’t learned on the HS. But now that I’ve tried a CF, I’m definitely happy with my wings. The HS without question are a little bit ‘twitchy’ relative to the CF, nor are the CFs as fast in my experience. Sometimes I wonder if it’s the slower speeds of the CF that makes it more forgiving. I think you just have to look at what your end goal is and eventually you’ll adapt your style to the wing. As it’s very foreign to anything I’ve done, and I’ve done every board and watersport I can think of, I suspect the wings tend to shape the rider to a fair extent if you know what I mean. That is the wings sort of lead you. If you want to foil fast and pump and glide for long distances there are certainly better foils than the CF out there. I just think that leaves a lot left on the table as my goal is more to test the limits of maneuverability. To each their own. I’d say look at what you want out of it and just commit. You may flatten the learning curve out by starting with more stable foils and progressing to looser wings. But over the long haul I’ve saved time by just learning on the less stable wings. HS wings are absolutely better for what I want to do. That may not be the case with you. So what’s ‘better’ is relative of course. And yes, I had my share of frustration initially-and I probably would’ve had less frustration had I started on stable wings and then progressed to less stable wings. But in the end I’m certain I’m farther ahead by doing it this way. It’s also spared me a fair amount of expense. Although I would say that I can see how a CF wing would be better on those days where the sea is angry and the chop and waves are endless. It takes a lot of concentration and effort to manage the constant changes in grades with each wave and the changes in lift and acceleration as you’re dealing with an almost endless chop. On those days I’d definitely pick a CF wing had I the option. I can ride for maybe 30-45 minutes tops on the HS in those conditions before my foot intrinsics and calf muscles are screaming at me. So every wing has its niche-and I’d never say a wing is worthless. It’s just how much expense do you want to bear so as to be perfectly tuned for each eventuality? I still think starting at your end goal and working backwards is the way to go. If your easily frustrated it might not be for you. And you have to be ok with some early humiliation. Are you an instant gratification guy, or a delayed one?
Now thats some feedback... nice one. It does sound like you have a lot of watersport expertise before foiling and thats why the HS foils are working well almost straight off for you. I will say after teaching and talking to a fair few foilers the CF is still the range to get less experienced people into the sport. Especially if they are trying to learn to switch their feet around after their gybe. But if you are staying in one stance the whole time this is less of a problem. Like you said its all about what you want to do with it. Thanks again for the feedback, Reuben
Hey Bill, see my other comment back to Flying Beaver... The CF is I feel still the best step into foiling for most people unless and maybe like you, have a pretty good understanding of many other watersports. Thanks Reuben
By the way you dont need a mallet to remove Armie front wings :) There is a good technique that you can use that they mention it in their instruction book ! Undo the screws then apply pressure at the back of the front wing with your thumb. At the same time with your other hand gently wiggle a wing tip up and down while pushing on the thumb…the wing will ease its way off the fuselage
Excellent overview of the Armstrong line. Probably the most complete on RU-vid. I liked that you spoke about the difference between CF an HS foils and how this relates to the type of riding in waves. I think this is the way to go if you are serious about this sport. I was looking at the Armstrong board and trying figure which would work best for my weight (98kg), with the intention to sup foil and wing. Seems for this line 6.6 is the only option. Maybe this fine for me but was thinking 125L would be better. For boards, I am also looking hard at Fanatic
Hi Matthew, thanks for your comments and super stoked you think the video is good. I understand and agree what you're saying about the board volume. The only thing I will say about these boards is they do feel incredibly light and very easy to throw around for their size. So I think the biggest 6'6 might have a little bit too much float for you but it would still feel a fairly compact board compared to equivalent boards in the market that are smaller in value. Will from SUPboarder actually had a fanatic board earlier this year. But he sold it because he was getting annoyed with the front foot straps not being in the right place. The board shape was really good but definitely if you after foot straps then having an offset centre strap like on the Armstrong boards is pretty amazing in the surf. Thanks Reuben
By far the simplest breakdown of these wings and boards. I still stand by the statement, Armstrong is the best and nobody comes close to their quality. My GoFoil rusted, and my friend's Lift is tricker to assemble and disassemble. The Armstrong t-nut is the easiest to use and offers more holes and mounting to let the mast sit farther forward or back than with ANY other brand. For people looking to learn foiling, it's ok to go through gear. Start with a "longboard" like a 5'+. Then transition down to short board like a 4' board. You can start off on a small board, but it's just tough. You can typically run much less volume as the foil helps paddle. My 30L Freedom foil board paddles and catches like my 40L Aipa fun board. A THICC foil wing is best to learn. They are forgiving, lift early, and less finnicky to inout changes. They are very stable. A slimmer wing is suuuuuper fast and difficult to control if you have no experience foiling. Take all this with a grain of salt, you CAN start on a 4' board and a high performance wing. Butttt I would recommend going through stages of gear. You can always sell and nearly get your money back. Orrrr keep it spares to teach your friends so you have people to go out with.
Thanks for a great review. I have the A-Wings (3.5 & 4.5) and the foil (1850HS). Armstrong is a premium brand with great quality and customer service. I had an issue with my 4.5 wing, and they replaced it within the week so I did not miss any water time. The Foil is great but some of the bits do fit tight. Recently there are spy photos of a 6.5 A-wing and a new line of HA foils and Wing specific boards. Can’t wait for you guys to review these.
Very nice presentation on Armstrong line. Strongly agree that it would be great to have a board right in between the 5'5 and 5'11. Would be real nice if it was a wingfoil focused board with a handle on the bottom; handle is really helpful in the shore break when you are dealing with the board and the hand wing.
Thanks for your feedback and glad you found the video useful. Regs the handles in the bottom of the boards, you are right this would be a good idea. And something that maybe I should of brought out in the video. Thanks Reuben
Thank you, you have given me the technical name and understanding of the foiling. I wanted to pump and wake surf on the river. I believe that I need the shortest board. However, when in the sea, this requirement might change. Still a bit confused but thats based on me not fully knowing my use case.
Hey Anthony, Glad the video has helped and yes for river and pump foiling you need short and light with a good size HA foils too. BTH this is something we haven't really got into yet! And really not sure how and what is compatible with the efoils. I don't think much is really! Thanks Reuben
@@SUPboardermag Never the less, you have added to my technical knowledge of the equipment. I will be trying my first foiling session in two weeks time. I will have a full grasp of the sports and equipment by the end of it. I will also let you know my findings.
You're spot on man! I have been prone foiling for a while. I learned on a 6' Pyzel and i was struggling to exit on waves and pump. I got a 5'4" Pyzel and I could pump much better and turn much harder. Now i have a 4'1" Freedom Foil Board and it pumps and rips so well. But obviously that length gets you into waves earlier. For you on a wake, you could go with like a 3'6" and be fine. It seems you can get away with a longer board by using a longer mast and flying it higher.
Hi just back from Hawaii had my first foiling experience. Im a surfer “shortboard” normally, but looked so fun with the foiling so had to have a go. I only tasted the efoil, so obviously it’s different. But completely addicted, my question I like a setup for prone to wing surfing. Any help in the jungle of foil be greatly appreciated. If there is a better forum please forgive me. Oh and Im currently in Southern California, but also looking to use in Southern Swedish waters when visiting. This was a great video thanks a lot! Very humbly, Daniel
Hi Dan T, The question I would ask you would be, what weight are you? If you are about 70-85kg a foil set up like the CF 1200 would work well for Prone and wing. Unless you are planning to take on the big waves first off. You can always comment on out post here : www.supboardermag.com/2021/02/23/an-armstrong-foil-range-overview-sups-foils-and-wings/ . Sometimes YT can get hard for us to follow comment threads. Thanks Reuben 🤙
I think the bigger setup would be best 1550 V1 FOIL KIT would be a good move. Remember there are cheaper foils out there, but Im now right into Armstrong at the mo. Really great stuff that is going to last. Thanks Reuben
Yeah I just started and I'm a little bigger than you and I got the CF 2400 and it's great, super easy to ride and It definitely made my performance instantly get better. Quality products and I'm super happy with mine and I'm in Southern California too. And there are foil forums out there like foil feed and a couple others and all of the top guys are on there to answer questions for you it's really pretty cool.
Hi Michael, Yes it does require a small bit of shaping on the carbon kick pad to get the screws in, or take the carbon kick pad out altogether. I guess it's not the most common request but it is possible. I think removing the pad and applying a little bit of wax on the deck would be the easiest option to give it a go. Thanks Reuben
I'm curious about the tail on the boards. Is the large cut away required for SUP foiling? Some of the dedicated wing foiling boards (like F-One) have a more squared off tail which they presumably think is better for a pure wing foiling board. Is there a trade off in these two very different design approaches (F-One vs Armstrong)? Is one better for pure wing foiling?
It's a very good question Michael. I believe at the moment biggest difference is having the ability to pump and get up onto the foil early with the sloped boards like the Armstrongs. When using a board like this in the waves I believe this is an absolute must and really makes a difference to getting on and up in the waves early. But when winging having a deeper cutaway tail doesn't make so much of a difference unless you are trying to pump and get up in very light winds. Having a bit more of a tail behind you does make the board a little bit more stable when you touch down on and off the foil maybe if you were transitioning through gybes for example. We are also about to put out a video where we compare a Starboard foil board against a Starboard wingfoil board. So look out for that one, it might be interesting too. Any help ? Thanks Reuben
@@SUPboardermag The Starboard wing foil board looks like an interesting hybrid approach with a squared off section in the middle and two cut-aways on either side. I look forward to the video. Thanks for all the work you guys do.
Hell yeah 😂. its a top price point and agree it would be nice if straps were included! But the boards are epic... we should see the new ones soon too. Thanks Reuben
Hi Roger, The way Armstrong have put their foot-strap inserts on the board. Wont allow it because the straps end up crossing over near the middle hole. Possibly if you made a custom strap type arrangement you could make it work. Best having a look on the Armstrong website to see the layout of the foot strap plugs. I hope that helps a little bit thanks Reuben.
Just brought the arm strong foils wasn’t happy with Quality control the mast wasn’t excepting the fuselage in order to line up holes you had to not tap it with a rubber hammer but beat it on then once on you had to really beat the shit out of it to get it apart so after spending two grand I had to sand the in side of the mast to the point that it worked on your videos just a tap on and a tap off shame on arm strong Quality control and the dealer I bought it from wasn’t so thrilled about my complaint poor service
Hey Robert. Thanks for your feedback. This is first time we have heard anything bad about Armstrong. But I guess it can and obviously did happen. We were so impressed we put our hands in our pockets and actually bought some foils. Did you get them replaced and sorted? Thanks Reuben
@@SUPboardermag no I shaved 1000 mm of carbon inside or fuselage so it would work disassemble and assemble like the videos showed told real kite boarding about the problem and what I did rep really didn’t give a shit he said OK what do you want from us now a real business person would’ve said I’m so sorry for your product would you like me to send a new one right away not this rep worst business practice I’ve seen in a long time especially when you give them 3000 bucks this is the attitude they give you
Hmm sorry Robert. That sounds rubbish. I would send an email to Armstrong they will want to know about any problems with their equipment and potential retailers no doubt.. It sounds like it should've been a straight replacement fix. Reuben
