Analog Summing - Fuseroom Studio Masterclass 

This is one of the clearest explanations of Summing. Well done. For those who are curious, the Dangerous box opens up the stereo range, and everything sounds a bit creamier and open. Indeed the bass line weight gets heavier. Awesome.

My personal experience using analogue summing is that with very little effort my mix sounds finished way quicker. Each individual instrument appears to have it's own space in the frequency spectrum and you can pick out the individual instruments in the mix easier and the effects running through the summer seems to sound better. Now of course you can achieve this in the box, but it takes longer using more plugins and experience counts. I should note that i sum 16 channels of which 4 is mono the rest stereo pairs. The summing mixer is a Vintage Maker Filtek with Haufe transformers, then the stereo out goes to a silver bullet stereo tone amp for makeup gain this has neve and api transformers, filters and eq's. there's a ssl stereo buss comp patched in and out of the silver bullet and the stereo out of the silver bullet goes back to a orion 32. The effect of this chain gives your mix what feels like more stereo width and depth. You'll end up spending a lot of money for something you could get close to in the box. For some it ain't worth the expense and for the others who are a bit obsessive about their sound it's worth it. At the end of the day it's the song writing and the music production that makes a hit record, not which particular Mic, comp, eq or converter was used.

Great video. I really appreciate how long you allowed us to hear going through the many different sum types. Thank you!

great stuff... i learnt alot!! thank you alberto. loved how the drums sit in the analogue pass through and love the sound of the NLS as an in the box alt

Great comparison and explanation. Thank you for taking the time out to do this. I've been trying to ascertain if it is worth stepping into the analog summing world. You did a great A/B/C/D comparison. Thank you for taking the time to not only show a hardware unit in action but 2 plug-ins, that are for this purpose, as well. It really does put things in perspective for anyone interested in this subject. You have a sub! I look forward to seeing more videos from you. :)

Fantastic video, your explanations are some of the best I've seen for this kind of fairly technical audio stuff. Really enjoyed it, and wow, that room....that desk.....that...that workstation.......damn, that is an awesome setup, brother. Right on.

Thanks a mill, for taking the time to present this. It is really well done and clearly explained. Also you used a track 5hat made it easier to hear what’s going on. For those that don’t hear any difference, you need to listen on good headphones or in a well balanced or treated room. Also it’s not the coloration that’s important when using a summing box or plugin, because as we all know, there are a 101 different ways to add colour to a mix. The one thing a summing box gives you, or adds that you can’t get in any way is that separation, where the mix just opens up more, each instrument just seems to have its own space and the mix might sound wider. Both the D Box and NLS has that, but NLS doesn’t have the same weight. VCC has more colour and weight but is slightly narrower and less open. This is why many find NLS as thinner, but if you mix through it, you automatically compensate for that. I’ve used both and now use NLS, because it’s very difficult to add separation to the end of mix, but you can easily add weight or more colour. If you listen again with good monitoring, it’s easy to hear.

BEST YT video on this subject...thanks alot!

The first part is gonna fuckus. Haha, love it!

Dude, what an excellent explanation. Love it.

Finally, I saw someone that knows what he is talking about, I bought a lot of eq's and compressors as a hardware and plugins and I can notice the difference between them I feel summing boxes should be the last peace of gear you buy, it's the ice on the cake great tutorial the best I've seen for summing until today

very very WARMING , AWESOME SOUNDING

Great explanation and examples! Thanks.

The analog summing version is noticeably warmer, more open/wide and has more depth. All the digital and no summing examples sounded more congested and harsh.

Brilliant presentation. Thank you, sir!

The dangerous music was so much platter in the low end and upper mids plus gave it a nice smooth top end 👍

This is Super Userful Maestro Alberto, THE BEST Analog summing Lesson I've learnt......SUBBED

Reaaally like the waves. To be honest, I don't feel the dangerous makes that huge of a difference compared to the plugins, and the snare on the dangerous feels like it gets more on the background instead on the front like in the plugins. I guess it's a personal preference, but there is a fairly big difference. Mixing through these plugins might be the best idea, very good call.

Super helpful and informative! Thank you

"Your bits are your headroom" !!! Perfect.

Grandissimo.... very very interesting. Great presentation!!! I will start tuo be your fan from today. Bravo

The Dangerous box was def the warmest and glued the sounds together more cohesively in my opinion. I use a Dangerous D-box and I would never work without it. I love Dangerous and their products. 1st Class company and products !

Best explanation! thank you for the masterclass! Look like Waves & Slate give more saturated/color, and the Dangerous Box more warm and solid in the low end.

Very helpful video. Good job, and thank you 👍🏻

I like the dangerous music, then the slate, then the waves

Thanks. Great lesson and explanation of analog summing !

Even listening to this via the speakers of a TV I can notice that the analog summing sounds better.

I'm listening on Audeze Lcd2 through a DAC/Amp, and while there is a difference between the examples, it's negligible. Since most people won't have this solid of a setup, it seems to me that analog is a huge investment for an indiscernible improvement. Maybe this is because you do such a good job mixing that the digital sounds stellar as it sits . Great video. Subbed!

Thanks for this great shootout. Very useful. Dangerous hardware surely have that magic sounding, and slate digital also works well in similar approch. Feels like waves are in quiet different style, much thinner and crisp sounding.

I heard the best Sum using dangerous sum...good and warm analog sum feel

STELLAR class (even 5 years later)! Subscribing now!

I can definitely hear the constraints on the audio mixed digitally verses the character that's added from the 2 Bus LT. I like the illusion of space that it creates. I personally think the mix sounds a little more natural with it, which is kinda what my mixes are missing.

Excellent Video

actually quite surprised at how well those two plugins handled the situation. sounded pretty damn close, and good as well.

Great video thanks!

I can hear a difference because of the snare. All sound good to me. The LT summing makes the sound a tad warmer. The no summing sound was very clinical. The 2 plug-ins brings the snare up front a bit and seems to make the overall sound bigger compared to no summing. I like em all :)

Great description of signal flow

Differences are subtle but are there, imo. I agree that hardware processors make more of an impact, for me, than the summing. I use a 2bus+ and I can totally hear the difference. I do agree this is one of the best video's I've seen anyone do. Great a/b and selection of gear. Subscribing!! Wayne

The dangerous summer makes its difference in the high frequencies. I'm listening to it on a smartphone and I can hear the difference. Turned my phone upside down so I couldn't see what was playing, and as soon as you switch from "dangerous" to "no summing" I could hear the sharp transients like razor blades cutting through. If you don't run through an external console it's going to cause the transients to be a bit more sharp and painful to the ear on the leading edge of the transient. What will be impossible to differentiate is if you compare a dangerous summer with an Allen & Heath GL2400. When you push the gain on the GL 2400 you will probably be able to round off the Leading Edge of the transients and make an indistinguishable sound between the GL 2400 and the dangerous.

Wow, the Analog 2 Buss sounds like it puts a covering over the entire envelope. In my opinion, neither digital Sum sounded like the analog, and between the 2 digital the slate was just a hair less brittle, possible something that can be rebalanced in the individual busses am guessing. Hey all in all, I found your Chanel today, and as a brother in Christ I just want to tell you how much I love you for sharing this gift, your clipping vs limiters was God sent today, Thank you so much and stay blessed.

Thank you.

Very helpful

First I must say the song sound great! Second of all the mixes sounds good! The out board analog summing has some nice mojo more so than the others. After a while to me it’s a great song regardless of which mix. Toward the end the wave had to much of some thing but I wasn’t really mad at it lol. Thanks for this!

Love that Morpheus style armchair in the back. And HUGE thanks for the explanation! Suprisingly, Slate sounded the best to me. Very punchy

To me the difference is clear if you listen to the drums. The snare feels more compressed and punchy with dangerous, more clear with waves, more present with slate. The overall sound feels very richer in all the three summings

First, thanks for the good explanation of summing ITB and OTB. Now it's the year 2021 and things have changed a lot since the dangerous 2 bus summing box invented the product category for external analog summing mixers in 2001. 20 years ago! At these days I worked in the audio industry in one of the 3 top DAW brands. 20 years ago the DAW companies demonstrated that mixing in the box is possible and that it will be a serious alternative to produce in the analog domain. Of course these ever improving DAWs have been a competitor for analog gear producers. A lot of these big studios with huge invests in their equipment still existed. Their return on investment had not been payed off and therefore they had to justify that analog is much better than the "digital toys". And at that time they were right. Digital productions could not hold up to the analog standards. That is the reason why the product category "analog summing mixers" entered the pro audio market. They wanted to provide the signal quality of analog to the growing group of digital producers but without the need to invest in a 500.000 $ large format analog console. I can remember a lot of discussions (and verbal fights!) at that time about the superiority of analog vs. digital. The big challenge for the DAWs was the question: Why do analog mixes often sound wider, deeper and sometimes "crispier" than digital mixes? Today we know why: 1. Due to the phase inaccuracies of analog components when summing a lot of channels. 2. Due to the manipulation of the sound by analog components. 3. Due to the distortion analog components produce the hotter they are driven. 4. Due to the amount of outboard equipment that could manipulate/color the sound in a creative way. That diversity of analog gear didn't exist in the digital domain. 5. Due to the digital converters that have not been up to the quality of today's converters. 6. Due to the lacking of technology to emulate analog gear in the digital domain (e. g. convolution technology). People were used to the "sound" of analog. Let's jump to 2021. Today nearly all popular music productions are produced "in the box." due to economical and convenient reasons. (Andew Schepps, just to name one of the older guys:-) The price for a studio-day dopped significantly. The budget record companies pay for production is a fracion of the budget in the 80ies or 90ies. Most big and famous analog recording studios have been disappeared or have been bought by private owners (vintage lovers). And the sound (quality)? Music (no matter of personal taste) never sounded so good today. I only mean the technical quality of the masters. Quality: This is not at all an issue! ADCs of 384 kHz, 32 bit integer, high end clocking technology when syncing with external devices (Possible with an interface under 2000 $!). Although this bit depth and sampling frequency is not necessary for highest quality. It does not sound better. Higher sample rates can even sound worse! (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--jCwIsT0X8M.html) Sound: This is also not an issue. There are so many plugins that can emulate every nuance of the analog sound and even go far beyond it. Everything is possible. But you have to search for these tools and willing to try them out if they work for you. That means: investing a lot of your valuable time. It is a matter of fact that you can rebuild the sound of the most expensive analog gear with a plugin. Providing you really want it and you invest some time. Tactile experience: This is the big advantage that analog gear has over software. Until today there have been many attempts to create controllers for software. Only a few really work well but they are much more expensive than all your software and your converters together. And the investment in it is a big risk. If a the protocol or the support for it has stopped after some years, your investment has not payed off and you can not use it anymore. Using small controlles can not substitute the need of the mouse. Investment Still a big advantage of hig end analog quality gear. Software, Controllers, DSPs, Converters have much more value loss then quality analog gear. You can still have fun with quality analog devices in 20 years from now. Conclusion If you are mixing in the box and want to improve sound quality or gain attitude with an analog summing box you can do it if you are willing to pay more than 3000 $. But you can do this in the box too - no problem. With even more possibilities. Hui, that's a lot of text I wrote. I hope there is something in it for you.

Night and day the DM box sounds better than no summing or the plugins. Out of the plugins I preferred NLS. I own both these plugins and only ever tried the MixBuss module on the stereo out but I'm going to try using it on the groups like you did. Great video thanks.

Thanks so much

The analog summed mix in your example sounds more compressed especially in the kick/bass correlation, has definitely the most saturated sound - probably caused by summing several D/A converters - and the most overall glued together character. But I guess it strongly depends on the summing plugins settings and especially the processing of the sum itself to come closer to the analog impression. I'd give it some extra saturation and a little linear phase multiband compression of the low end as an approach for a better simulation.

Massive difference.. No summing sounds mushy in the low end. In addition the clarity is much higher on the high frequency's with summing! I need it!

Best summing video ;-)

I hear that the analog summing gives more warmth and depth to the sound. The digital summing plugin makes the sound brighter to my ear and no summing sounds a bit dull.

Oh and great looking studio by the way, very clean, elegant and relaxing vibe. Also I see you have the Softube Console 1. I use that with NLS to simulate a software mixing desk. Can’t afford an outboard summing setup right now, but maybe one day.

This is the best video about this topic and you are no-bullshit guy. I like that :D

I hear the most subtle difference in the low mids. It just fattens things up and gives a bit more presence to things between ~100 Htz and ~600 Htz. However, I notice almost no difference between the digital options and the analog box ( a bit more snappy and forward drums). I believe that it will not make or break a mix and offers very little for how much it costs

The difference after youtube compression is not that big, but it's audible, the analogue summing box gives it a nicer bottom and makes a bit more 3D, the plug ins were pretty close.

Best looking place I saw

after listening multipple time, this is the differences 1st the bassline in the dangerous sound more defined 2nd the top end on the dangerous sound more smouth while in the nls and ss sound a little bit harsh or a like there is a little boost at this erea 3rd the the dangerous overall sound sound like floating while the others is very static i can be wrong but this is what it sound to me but to be honest for me it's not a very big obvious difference you have to listen very carefully to be able to catch these things so it's not a big deal i'm listening using senhizer hd650 so maybe in speakers i can hear more differences who know. thanks for the video

Awesome the Salte plugin sounds terrific, But when I listen trough the Dangerous Audio is like just The Sound ...I mean the sound that you expect to listen in a high end production, difficult to tell beacause is not my native lenguage , but trough de analog summing get the impression that you listen this song before, Greetings from Ecuador. Great Video

the plugins sounded very aggresive to the dangerous 2-bus unit. there wasn't much difference between the no summing and the dangerous summing but it just placed everything a little smoother and i could tell it every time it went in and out with my eyes closed. great comparison, this really shows that hardware is still relavant today, even though plugins has gotten very very good.

Thank you, it helped but i had a little bit of problems. Good Tutorial

You can hear the width increase on the DM 2Bus. It's slight, but it's there. And I think for my style and workflow, it's enough to warrant having one.

listen to the "S"s' and you will the difference. You can hear the saturation on smoothing those out. Sounds richer

NLS imparts a satisfying punch to the music that none of the others has. VCC has a little honkiness in the mids. Neither of the plugins sound smooth like Dangerous but the Dangerous might be a little too far. There is a vividness to the unsummed that is reduced too much by the Dangerous. The sound stage also seems to have shrunk. All this depends on settings though. Drive them harder/less, the results might be different.

Differences are very subtle, but the Dangerous definitely sounded the best, even on these simple Bose headphones (I don’t consider Bose “audiophile”). I was surprised by how nice the Slate plugin sounded, though. No idea what the cost difference is (this is not my field), but the Slate was actually pretty impressive for software.

Check out the: A Designs Mix Factory Summing Box. From samples I heard it sounds better than any other summing box in regards to getting that "Class A console" open & airy 3D sound. Now if someone could only make that into a plugin!!

For the money the Waves NLS is kicking ass as far as I can hear.

Yes definitely a difrence especially on the reverb on the snare you can actually pinpoint where it's in that space of the mix depth wise all elements feel naturally there . Low end feels a bit more solid aswel not a huge difference but definitely there but only trained ears would pick up at the end of day I would pick analog summing over digital but would not make or break a professional mix As for the plugins well .....

The dangerous 2bus was definitely the warmest. Surprisingly to me, the Slate digital sound is right behind the 2bus. Not as round, but still ok. The Waves sound was thinner. Great video. Nice song choice for the example as well.

Man this is a great video. I use the SPL MixDream with other analog hardware for my projects.. also, I really like that damn song .. The vocalist sounds really good.

I find the results absolutely interchangeable, the D box ect are useful if you need DA converters or an exspensive speaker controller, but with the way things are going the plugins sound amazing nowadays plus if you want to sum things to get analog feel there are so many way cooler options for tweaking the sound then just ins and outs like the d box. Also things with tubes and nice transformers for nice meaty analog if desired. thanks for the video though

I heard a noticeable difference with the snare, when the Slate stuff was engaged. Little more definition in the bass when the Dangerous bus was engaged....but other than that, they all sounded great to me!

MUY BUENO yo creo que la suma analoga abre el estereo ,le da mas pegada .la aclara bastante a la mezcla,se nota bastante,yo tengo una humilde mackiee y algunos compresores de gama media,y se nota la diferencia,paso todas mis mezclas por esos aparatos y gana mucho en calidad,gracias,saludos desde argentina

2-Bus sounds deeper and wider very clean but software has aliasing artefacts and the no summing is dull lifeless . nice master class Thank you.

The Difference isn't much, But the 2-Bus has a more focused Center that's very pleasing. I actually like the Waves Summing as well, I can hear the difference even using apple ear plugs. I was looking into getting a Neve 8816 or the new SSL Fusion & I cant decide !!!

Would like the center from the 2BUS-LT and sides from the SSL haha. Buy yeah, not so much difference besides that one with no summing. RU-vid is not the best place for sound comparison, and in subtle things like this a 0.2 db difference in volume could be the choice maker. Good video tho, big ups!

Alberto may I ask you for your judgement here? is the Lynx Aurora N 16 also fine for the AD conversion after summing or should I additionally go for a dedicated 2ch mastering converter? your advice would be much appreciated:)

The difference is very minimal for a lot more expense that the consumer would never notice

Waves and Slate in my opinion sounds just artificially bold and "cheesy". Maybe at first listen it's hears like "better" and pleasant, but a bit tired later. Dangerous sounds not so colored or low-ended, but just "right" and alive, also dangerous option one is more catchy to the ears.

Yeah i heard it. The Dangerous is better it feels more real. I am also using mytek 8x converters so they really show alot.

Should you (typically) have your summing stuff only on groups or on the master as well?

no summing wins for the low end, this analog loses punch, and waves vs slate are two different tastes, all summing win for the add of "life" to the track. this is my feel for today :p

I think these days the reason why people use summing units is so that they can wire up their analog gear, synths, etc.. So in that respect they are very useful without having to buy into a console. The 2Bus doesn't have traffos (far as I'm aware), but summers like those Neumann v475's and Neve 8816's do.. so if your looking to get that big console sound (and warm up your digital).. that's the way to go !!

Hi, very much enjoyed your Masterclass. I do have some questions in reference to the quality of the equipment needed to attain favorable results. I have an Antelope discrete 8 Interface. It seems to be setup for 8 channels of summing If I wish but I was wondering if a "prosumer" piece like this used in an analog summing environment would compete with simply something like a Slate Summing emulation plugin? What level of conversion does one need to have to make analog summing beneficial?

LETS SUM IT UP

listen from about 15;26 and follow the snare..... to my ears the waves nls ssl or " spike " preset sounds the best ..it creates more punch and edge to the snare sound ...the dangerous summ. made it more flat and nothing special maybe bit of wideness ....solidstate i cant describe between the 2 compounds i just judged... i could be wrong ...could be a loudness thing .. you decide. by the way nice vids .....keep up the good work and tnx

I can hear more openess in the vocals in the 2 bus LT summing compared to ITB. VCC does improve the sound pretty well. But compared to analog summing, it lacks openess by a certain factor. Seperation and depth is what really matters rather than harmonics. Does getting a 16 summing mixer really worth it, if depth and width is a matter of concern? Thank you.

I had the Dangerous and it didn't do anything to the sound, just make it brighter and harsher. Try the Rupert Neve Designs or API.

Excellent! Subtle, but seems to affect bass and presence. 2-bus slightly softer and less fatiguing.

Slate did a pretty good job, but Dangerous is just smoothing and everything goes deeper, because that micro-roughness is soften. And the bottom. At least now I know what 2BUS is)) Thanks!

2bus LT wins the race...more depth...thanks for this video...keep it up....

For once am happy i understand German😄..nice info,had to watch it 2x 👌🏽

I hear more snare reverb in the two plug in summed versions, less than the analog, that stuck out to me the most,

Thanks for the Nice video and the way you explain about Analog Summing. I am considering to buy the D-Box+ but i am not convinced as really subtle differences in all demo's. I can hear what its doing and Dangerous was best then Slate and lastly Waves. Not sure if its worth 2500 Euro. I will get two Klark teknik's EQP and The Art Pro Vla II first, trying to get that analog sound i am looking for. Maybe later re-consider about summing. Cheers.

I struggled to hear a difference, the Slate plugin seemed to make the most difference by making things bigger and warmer but that’s all I could hear. It’s a great song though, so groovy!

That´s a great lesson, thanks for sharing your wisdom Engineer I have a doubt about how you return your summed mix in a A/D convertor, you use two different kinds of Convertors for digital to analog and vice versa? Which is the name of the convertor you talked is a great convertor?

Finally Mins later cos out with the soft

Well I have no future as a mixer... I heard absolutely no difference lol :)

The dangerous sounds richer and waves especially ss make it so cheaper on midrange

I feel the summing mixer is pushing the voice and compressing a tiny bit. Actually the slate plugins sounded best to my ears, or even the unsummed mix :)