Lol c’mon lads, Campy expensive, sure. But how ridiculous is kit price getting? Rapha’s prices have always been up there but it’s astronomical now. $285AUD for an aero jersey, $305 for a crit jersey, $500! for Powerweave bibs. These prices are worse than campy super record.
@@ChrisMillerCycling don’t get me wrong I like good kit but kit prices be creepin! To kit yourself out decently your looking at $1000’s for some brands. How long they last or stay in vogue? Compare that to gym rats or *runners* and no wonder this sport is seen as an elitist wank fest lol Love it if you guys chatted about it or tallied up your own kit spends and had an open discussion. A few years ago I spent close to $3.5k on kit for the year but I do include helmets, shoes and lycra. ✌🏼
I think the thing with kit is that you can at least get a lot of it on discount. Pretty much year round I can at least get some last-season bibs for 50% off. To me the full price is more a symbolic thing. Groupsets are barely ever properly discounted.
@@Adanteh yeah agree however the point Chris and Jesse were talking about is people are buying these items at full whack as soon as they come to market. Like they were saying it’s almost like the more expensive the better flex. So this gives brands a feedback loop that everyone will feel. Those bibs that go up $40-$60 will always make it to sales but now that sales price is also higher. Rapha’s Aerosuit was sort of always a good value piece of kit when it was $360AUD, picked up in the sale at $180. Now it’s $450 and rarely goes on sale between $280-$330. Prices are CREEPING and it affects all.
I love Campy. I have Chorus on one bike, super record on the other. I love it because it looks great, has history, makes me feel something and is different. Why make a group set like all the others. They aren’t going to beat Shimano or SRAM for price so make it look amazing and be different.
Campy is supposed to be the jewelry of the bike world. This is really unattractive jewelry. Nothing stylish or graceful. The chainset is passible, but everything else looks... not like what I expect Campy to look like. My 10speed Record groopset is beautiful. This doesn't compare. Everything about it is underwhelming, aside from the price.
In the tech world they call what Camoagnolo did, a “paper launch”. They launch it but the public can’t even get it for whatever reason and is almost a waste of time. Even in Dave Arthur’s video, he said the group set on display was the only one in his country (or maybe state/city?) which I assume is why he wasn’t even able to ride it
Nice vid guys, cheers. Thing I've noticed while trying to sell a mid tier bike. There is no interest... bikes aren't selling atm or if they are they are high spec super bargains. My feeling is that the new cyclists aren't coming through because entry level bikes are waaaay too expensive. So the knock on effect is that mid and then high level bikes aren't being passed down to the next generation. Add to that the newer top spec bikes are selling second hand for $10 to $15k while an SL6 top spec is $6k. The prices are broken, no new generation buying their second mid tier bikes then stupid prices for top spec. The result is a broken second hand market. Your thoughts?
High end bikes are being advertised online for 10-15k, whether anyone is buying them is a different story. I know it’s annoying, and we’ve all been there, but when you buy a bike new it’s just a fact that they lose most of their value as soon as you take em outside
"Why Bother Racing" - Jesse was right on the money with his comments regarding his weekend away racing in the Cootamundra Annual (Classic) & Haycarters Road Race. It's like it must have happened in the mysterious "Area 51" because finding anything about it via social media, the local newspaper website, the local cycling club website and other sources have no reference to the 2023 event held only in the past few weeks. This could not be a meaningful outcome for current or future sponsors as there was no promotional return on their investment. I grew up in Cootamundra in the pre internet era when the event was originally known as The Bruce Hodges Memorial Road Race (for professionally registered riders). The event drew riders from everywhere and several professional "teams" from Melbourne. The event once had prestige and deserved the title of being a "Classic". I understand that in the current economy and with Government regulations running such an event is logistically and financially difficult. The race used to finish in the main street in front of up to 200 spectators who would attend to watch the finish. I hope that the 2023 running of the event does not spell the end of the race and that riders continue support it. Chris and Jesse, keep doing what you're doing, The Nero Cycling Show is the only cycling RU-vid channel that I watch religiously.
I'm getting a Melee this month--hopefully. It'll be with the new "Aegean Blue" paint and the new Force. Since I don't care about "frothworthiness" and I dont particularly dig the GIGANTIC logos on bikes in general, its subdued, modern classic looks appeal to me. More importantly, though, I'm sure its ride will.
Sounds great! Yeh the bike looks like it rides really well, for me it was just an interesting example of how a bike hits the market and they way that effects it’s over all success. I wonder if your local retailer did a better job then most promoting it.
@@ChrisMillerCycling If I have a choice, I’ll usually take the more rare item. Apparently there will only be 200 of the Aegean Blue versions made, making a bike most will never see at all even more rare-but striking nonetheless.
I know a guy who has spent 18000 EUR on a Custom Artisan Titanium Roadbike - and he built it with a Shimano 105 Mechanical Groupset - because he thinks the finish works better with the Frameset and he prefers mechanical shifting. I really like this attitude.
On the Jumbo/Sram chain drop. I am 99% sure that the clutch was switched off to save 1 watt, and the front chain keeper was minimized to just a small roller on the top of the chain to save 2 grams. This was calculated to save 3 seconds on the 18km uphill TT. However the Jumbo/Sram guys failed to calculate risk of chain drop and losing 12 secs. 😂 100% blame on the marginal gains team at Jumbo/Sram. At least they tested the set-up on the prior day - which was why we saw Roglic do the bike swap on that stage.
There was no chain guide, agree that the decision not to have it was probably based on aero. Or just the mistaken idea that chain guides are only for mtb. Wrong decision.
does the clutch even cost 1W? I can’t imagine having a loose, floppy chain anywhere above the middle of the cassette would have been more efficient than having the clutch on, and obviously it would have prevented dropping the chain if that’s indeed what caused it. I’m inclined to think the team mechanics got a little greedy in setting the chain gap and then ditched the keeper as you mentioned.
The only reason SRAM folks are so triggered is because they know the product is dog 💩and the customer service even worse. But can’t admit they waisted their money.
Jesse, I raced the Cootamundra Haycarters on the Sunday as a Master 64yo, I agree with you that there was very little fanfare disappointing as l drove 2.5 hrs to race. It was good to see you there , I was at the presentation which was a let down. Peter STOCKWELL Griffith Cycle Club member
I honestly think campag, and in fact most of the Italian brands, just don't care if you like it, they make it, they love it themselves, and almost take it or leave it.... I love it, its so cool.... much better than awful, marketing focuses waffle the US brands do.......
A wireless drone that can fly in the air and make maneuvers and control the camera costs $600-$1k. A groupset with a shifting mechanisms that has been here for decades made wireless costs $4k-$6k.
What is the production cost of the electronic plastic drone vs the groupset? How many of each are sold? Sheesh! People can’t grasp basic economics of product sales.
Supply and demand I get it but nobody can tell me that wireleas groupsets are expensive because of R&D because the tech is caveman level compared to today's tech
The success and engagement level of this show is clear from the fact that I can’t even get close to reading all the comments Keep up the great work gents
Campy likely didn't want the new group set launched near the Tour de France because they have almost no presence in the Pro Tour. I believe only 1 Pro Tour teams uses Campy. If they do a big press release at the time of the Tour, it will get lost because no one watching will see it in action.
I hope campy setting prices like this causes them to go bust for the rest of the world to see and take note. Unfortunately I don't think they're fighting for market share. I think they're positioning themselves as low volume boutique parts where perceived quality and profit margins are high. Suspect they'll do OK. Might even predict they'll add a bespoke element of some description down the line
Why would you want a company to go bust just because you can’t afford their products? Judge the product on the merits of its technology and quality. At least it’s full wireless: where is Shimano in this respect? It cost money to develop this kind of technology and development costs need to be amortized. Remember this groupset is manufactured where engineers are paid fairly.
Awesome show guys keep it up first class 😊😃🚴🏻👍 such a shame Campy have gone this route as I also love them but this is just not right direction for them in my opinion
Great chat as always. Agree with what was said on the melee branding. I was recently in the market for a new road bike and briefly considered the melee as an option. Enve has a good reputation and everyone I know who rides their wheels loves them. But the bike/paint options just felt so uninspired and there's no shortage of quality frames available now. Ended up going with an Ostro VAM. I figured with modern aero frames today there's probably not much between them, and I really appreciated that for a fairly minimal upcharge you can fully customize your paintjob from Factor. If I'm spending this much money (and time) on a bike, I want to feel something when I look down at it. The enve just didn't do anything for me.
Campy peaked with the last generation 11sp SR. Beautiful, reliable, simple, surprisingly tough and featherweight. Everything since then has done nothing but add complication and weight while making the groups uglier. On other topics: the price of electronic groups needs to come down. This is simple technology, RC has been using very similar components for decades. There's no reason 105 Di2 should cost over 2.5x mechanical Di2. The prices have gone crazy with the move to electronic, 105 Di2 is priced higher than Dura Ace mechanical was just a few years ago. Dura Ace is now well over US$4k. We need to get back to 2019 pricing when US$5k-US$6.5K would get you a Ultegra-level midrange bike with good wheels. I'll allow a few bucks for inflation.
You are spot on with the price-creep on new products! I don't mind seeing high-end products increasing in price, but seeing the mid-range going the same direction is frustrating. My local shop has a Pinerallo with 105 on it and it cost $6,000! It's a bit ridiculous.
I've ridden both di2 and SRAM axs, either is fine, I like the sram shift model better, but you can make di2 do that with the software, but sram brakes still not as good as shimano. As far as the 1x , why did he not have a chain keeper...wtf
Glad that cycling weekly were honest in their opinion of the group set. Grants video about it nailed everything for my view too lol. The price, look and odd gearing combo/lack of options definitely put me off of it.
@@ChrisMillerCycling Well given the pricing there is surely a market for it and don't think Campy didn't think of this. Face it the target demographic for it is the affluent mamil, for some the price is part of the appeal. Look at designer clothes or women's handbags and the prices they command.
Being a Lifer in the sport, brought up on steel, went to Aluminium. Bought my first Carbon in 2015 with a full Chorus set. Still riding it, and will probably never buy another bike. Out of my price range now. I was in the UK in 2019 and was seriously tempted to buy the Canyon Aeroad with SRAM red on the bike shop floor as a clearence 1500 stirling. Still regret not doing it.
I do ride ENVE Melee, but I don't get why one can say Melee is a stiff bike with AR handlebar. AR handlebar is designed to be used for gravel/endurance purpose so it has a lot of "give". (It literally flex when I pull bar unlike aforementioned SES Aero handlebar I also have). That's why I stopped watching Oompa Loompa. It sounded like a BS review for me. If you buy ENVE, no way one can say that unless that Melee is equipped with SES Aero handlebar which is designed to be stiff for on-road purpose.
You can get a brilliant bike today that’s better than what you could get 15 years ago and no more expensive. The problem is people want the same bike as Pogi or Vingegaard is riding. It’s insanity. My 10 speed Ultegra mech Specialized Roubaix 2008 with Alu wheels and rim brakes cost 5K USD. People are comparing bikes that have no resemblance with each other. Carbon frames and wheels are much more affordable. Just drop the electronics. My new aero Yoeleo Ultegra 12 speed Di2 with 50/50 carbon wheels is around 5.5K and is vastly superior to any bike you could buy 15 years ago, better brakes, frame, handlebars, tires, seat, more aero etc. Meanwhile we all earn 40-50% more. Get real. Very disappointing that this episode does not go beyond the usual uninformed complaints.
Primoz was not running a chainkeeper; Chris Horner had some pictures of the actual bike, pre-race, in one of his videos. I used to use SRAM 1x; all OK, never dropped the chain in the back, dropped several times in the front. Stupid little plastic chainkeeper worth 3 EUR (not more) sorted it out. Surprised about Primoz's mechanics...
Jesse was saying the groupset wars are over because people are happy to just ride whatever happens to be on a bike. I'd disagree. I very much prefer Shimano. The performance is good, the products are easier to find, and it generally costs less than SRAM or Campag, so buying spares and replacement parts is more affordable. Plus, I'm not keen on SRAM brakes, partly due to feel, but largely due to them using DOT4 fluid (I much prefer mineral oil). In the MTB world, that doesn;t matter so much because you can mix and match brakes and shifters. But, with integrated road brifters, brakes and the drive train have to be the same brand.
Losing the thumb shifter removes the positive differentiator for Campag, as a Campy fan if I have to learn new shifting I might as well move to SRAM or Shimano. I race on a 12 speed Chorus/Record mechanical mix which is plenty light enough, shifts immaculately and won't ruin me if I crash it.
Are the brands really creeping away from the lower end? Tiagra is really decent and as good as 105 used to be. I don’t buy the argument that everyone needs at least 105 anymore. I ride r7000 105 on one bike and it’s great but could easily be happy with modern tiagra its 105 6 years ago. I honestly think part of the problem is the alternative non shill RU-vid media doesn’t promote the low end as acceptable enough.
Having done Coota and Tolland, I 100% agree with Jesse. These events are a lottery based on the handicaps and whoever does it for Cycling NSW doesnt put much time into it, prefer state racing in Vic, it's graded and points system at least attempts to weed out sandbagging. The club racing point is a good one, I'm mid 40's and are kinda expected to go and race A at club level to make up numbers. I feel the tactics of Zwift racing now being used outdoors, to race harder at the start than the finish, is killing the number of people willing to race A grade now. Nobody wants to sign up for a 10 min race and when the strongest people want to be the break it kills the fun of the battlers stuck between A and B grade.
Unfortunately the future in general is probably inflationary. Read into that how you like but we are all probably on track of going from one extreme to the other. From underpaying years ago for brilliantly working components to now paying way too much for a baroque phase of mostly unnecessary changes and motifs. I'd say most products do this over their lifespan, however, the big difference I think are the global changes to production which are rapidly evolving and the increasing costs of energy as it relates to everything a modern industrial economy feeds on. Maybe some kind of counter-balance will occur and many of these systems will get leaned out and we won't just be adding greater and greater complextity to componentry and the like. Fewer parts, simpler operation and greater investment in longevity could during this paradigm shift in the world economy prove to be advantangeous. I am no dreamer however but the economic pressures could still result in this kind of slack in an otherwise tight finanicial future. But until then I think many companies who don't project into the "darker future" will try squeezing their market and customer base as much as possible for any short term gain. Campy unfortunately may be in that realm where Shimano has at least a lean manufacturing history, culturally speaking.
Nailed it, it's the dentist and the wealthy lads with no regard on how us regulars live I just spent $1,300 replacing my drivetrain I wish I could have seen my wife's face when I told her on how much it cost over the phone 😂😂😂
Its like Cycle NZ put elite Nats out in the sticks where no spectators and then had no live coverage this yr. AG Nats they couldn't be bothered putting it on, because they only care about track cycling where the funding is. Even though they happily take our race license money each yr from club road cycling. So a local club had to put the whole national club event on off their own backs, because unlike Cycle NZ they care about grassroots cycling. Not just where abouts the govt hand is doleing out the funding money. Shameful imo.
Campy fan. This SR missed. Not elegant Huge The levers look like shimano clones Where is the 53 39 750 km......... shakes head. Mechanical Rim brake Where's the thumb shifter? It's a sad day. They've lost their Italian way.
Inflation adjusted 105 di2 is cheaper than the original ultegra groupset. It's also better than the original. You now get a better groupset for less than you did 10 years ago. The mid range isn't quite dead yet . . . .
Aus Cycling is a joke. Entering cycling events run by them is not worth it. The lack of promotion and the unreliable nature of the event with cancellations at the drop of a hat means it’s a tough decision to bother out laying money and training. The membership process is difficult, finding events is difficult and their website/entry system is borderline unusable
I stocked up on parts to keep my 105 Rim brake bike going for as long as possible. The high prices and planned obsolescence will keep me from buying anything new.
Is the price of high end bikes also driven by the fact that they no longer change wheels for a flat, thank you disc brakes, but instead change complete bikes? Team bike sponsors now have more complete bikes to supply rather than wheels?
It's quite crazy how I see new to cyclists will be showing up to the group ride with an old steel frame, and the minute they see everybody else with carbon wheels and blingy frames and sidi shoes, they immediately start talking down about their gear and them the next week they go out and buy or happen to find a better bike than they are riding currently and its just to justify to themselves that they belong being seen in the group.
Dang! You guys manage to put out the best take on the latest bling, technology, racing hubbub, etc., every week. This was another home run! My own thoughts on "these guys". I'm getting old - 71 - and still enjoy cycling after 50+ years of ups and downs. But please don't put older riders like me into the "these guys" pigeon hole. Like anyone, I love great cycling equipment, but unlike "these guys", I can't afford to spend mega bucks on a bicycle that costs more than the house I grew up in as a kid. I'm no old doctor, dentist, or retired venture capitalist; I'm a retired network/computing analyst from a career at a university. Okay, off soap box diatribe.
Chris is right with Campy, had the same feeling and Oli even says in the vid he just picked the bike up within an hour of shooting. Seemed unorgaised and just weird. Not a good look
Do they not use narrow wide chainrings? That and a clutch would prevent all that. I wouldn't use a chain guard because sometimes it's hard to squeeze the chain back on if it does slip completely off the chainring and then you have to remove the guard.. that would be a disaster in a race.
I can understand the argument that most people wont be on the large chainring and smallest cog, but at that point why doest it matter if its a 10 or an 11 tooth sprocket. Id rather keep the spares situation simpler and stick with an 11 tooth on a shimano freehub body, something I know that there will be spares for years to come
Great vid... as a long time Campagnolo user since 1984 this new version is utter shit. Ugly, gear ratios to make you forget how heavy your disc brake bike is are just the start of the problems. I'll tell you why we didn't see anyone from AG2R riding it... maybe because the new rule of pros can ONLY use product available to the public. Imagine the pros using a 50 or 45 chainring LOL so disappointing on so many levels.
Quite interesting to see the perspective down under because in the UK the take on a lot of things you discuss is very different. I suggest you have some guests from the UK to bounce ideas off. Would be a good chat.
Your Melee comments are spot on. I had an order for a frame and whole bike build back in August but by April and no bike in sight, I bought a Factor Ostro and had it two weeks later. I liked the Melee exactly because it lacked flashy branding (sort of what I liked about the Aethos). But would rather have a bike than no bike!
Whats the point of obsessing over training and zones to optimize your training so you can get fitter and faster but then not use it in a race just because of the zone buffet effect in the race
Totally agree…..I’ve always been Campy…..ride Chorus mechanical…..and this new Super Record is a backward step…..also….who’s gonna want to ride a 50 front! The pros won’t want to! It looks odd, I bet it’s heavy….and they’ve removed the thumb button….it no longer is different enough or pretty enough compared to Shimano….it’ll not sell….
As a Campy tragic, this “new” groupset is saddening. It’s the equivalent of Ferrari suddenly releasing a car that looks (& function) like a Leyland P76 😢
I'm a new cyclist, mostly bumming about on my 800 Euro Specialised SIrrus to and from work plus the occasional adventure. I want to get involved into more enthusiast level cycling but you are right that the Mid-range is all dried up. When it comes to finding the frames and parts that, aren't super premium but have the build quality to last with serious care, there isn't much there for under 2000 euros. It's a real shame. I don't have boat money. I've got can't afford a deposit on a house money.
I’m a die hard campy fan as well. I was honestly thinking they got their mojo back when they released Ekar. They actually had a major success with this. So it baffles me even more how they did not capitalise on this. 2x13 with a 1x option and cross compatibility with Ekar cassettes would have been absolutely logical for me. And if Super Record is not supposed to be 1X just call it Ekar wireless or whatever. I swear this would have been a success. This groupset just feels like Campy straight up gave up on competing with Sram and Shimano and is now just going for the ridiculously rich luxury consumer.
I would have loved to have seen G pull out his 2020 Pina Dogma F12 with 11 speed di2 rim break for that giro TT bike swap (secret weapon / marginal gain), and lose 0.5Kg off his bike for the final 8km of extreme climbing - maybe could have be the difference of 14 seconds he lost overall by - just saying.... If that happened the cycling internet would be in meltdown.
Fascinating video and discussion guys. I'll say one thing straight up - as a Campy fan, I do not want this product if it has no thumb shifter. That's my favorite part about Campy's feel and performance, and a huge identity to the gruppo. I still haven't upgraded to electronic, and there's nothing wrong with non-electronic, but if I ever could upgrade to electric, I'd be looking for the wired version. No thumb shifter means a different shifting protocol on the front end and I am not looking for that. That's setting aside the fact that they priced it out of the range of my ever being able to get it.
The battery life of 750km is about on par wirh SRAM, which claims up to 20 hours. @20mph, thats 400 miles, @25mph it's 500 miles... Which I also think is too short. I always see people with SRAM wirh a dead battery, or carrying extra batteries, etc.
Great chat I love my Campagnolo and I ride all the major brands, but I was a bit shocked with cycling weekly’s so called review. I felt they were bagging Campagnolo for the sake of it because they’re an easy target. Would they be brave enough to do it with any of the other brands?
My thoughts would be that sram have had to invest so much more into gaining a market share and all bikes locally are specked in the shop with them. While costumers are still asking for shimano are all the costum order bikes I see are shimano that they are definitely winning the war still
I don't think the lack of a thumb shifter is a manufacturing choice. Yes there are campy diehards that love the thumby, but I think there's a much larger subset of the cycling world that completely disregard campag because of the form factor.
I was surprised by the covarege as well, at the end of each video I watched that day, I was like "AND?" or "IS THAT IT?" And none of the reviewers looked "happy", not sure if it was because the limitation that Campag put on them so they were not comfortable with their content, or the product itself... I don't know, I am not happy with the marketing personally.
great video, but was this really recorded a few days ago from today(6.1.2023)? I've recently added the new ENVE road bike to the top 3 of my picks for new road do it all machine and wondering why this new version was not mentioned/covereed since it's been on their site for months (to my knowledge). I agree that the original Melee in one color was not exciting (not $5K+ frame exciting), but the newer update in blue and with 35mm tire clearance puts it in a unique category. it even looks perfect for a Gravel World's race. I think a small company like ENVE needs to add some sort of custom paint program similar to Factor, Orbea and Ribble; that is the future of high end custom low volume and consumer direct bikes IMO. I've been having a hard time finding that road bike that does it all AND has a clip-on bar option; ENVE, Factor and Giant offer this, but so many brands are going to integrated cockpits that don't have a clip-on option available (Canyon, etc.).
Regional bias to what we have seen locally. As we continue to stress, so much of our opinion is effected by what we see here. That’s why it;s great you guys can give us your opinion in the comments.
just my thoughts but... no satelite shifters, no powermeter, no TT shifter options and it's more expensive than sram and shimano and... uglier than the LtWoo....🤔...altho the "battleaxe" look on the cranks isn't bad so that's something i guess...yep, sounds Italian 😁👍
Riding in the easiest gear would be less likely to have the chain fall off, i would assume it was no clutch or clutch was off, also i think that mtb guys are better at pedalling thru bumps
I count myself as a "life longer". Got into road cycling as a teenager in the mid to late 80's, when I dreamed of having a C-Record groupset on a Colnago Master. It seems that with every release they have made in the last 10 years, they have further eroded the allure that they once had. The latest Campag that I can stomach aesthetically is Record 10 Speed 🤷♂️
I'm only one data point, but I bought a new Canyon Ultimate a few months back with Ultegra Di2. For reasons I won't get into, I returned the bike for a full refund, and just picked up a new SuperSix EVO with SRAM Force AXS. I hemmed and hawed about what the differences might be, and at the end of the day, now that I have my bike, I could care less. As long as I have a reliable, smooth-shifting electronic group set, I don't really care either way. If I were shopping again, and was between two bikes that I really wanted, the group set would hardly play any part in the decision for me.
Chris, I have to agree. I don't think there are any teams willing to use it and I get the impression Campy have missed out the 'pro testing' from where the leaks (pre-press launch?) usually come. The EPS groups were a bit esoteric but true to Campagnolo, lovely, and to my mind absolutely buyable. This group has degraded Super Record and Campagnolo, in my mind.
The scenario you describe at your state level race in Aus sounds familiar. When I was doing similar level racing in the UK (E/1/2) between the early 2000s to 13/14 it was a hard grind. You’ve really got to love it to keep going. 5 weekends out of 6 getting your head kicked in just to get the odd top 10 with a top 3 on a great/lucky day. Literally one man and a dog on the finish line at most races. Wind, rain, freezing cold and the odd scorching hot day. Spending a fortune travelling all over the country and living like a monk. But if I could I’d go back there in a heartbeat. Best days on my life. Enjoy it while you can brother, because one day you’ll wake up and realise you can’t do it anymore and it’s the worst day of your life.
As a working class guy with a family and kids I have financial constraints. I've been racing bikes (mainly mtbs to start) since the earl/ mid 90's. Good, but never elite. Got my first road bike in 2009. So have always been mid-range value for money. So top of the range is out, but midrange 105 to ultegra is my bag. Used to be US2grand could get you a decent mid range racing bike, fine for the keen amateur where w/kg // w/drag is really all that matters. Now that same level bike is 3 to 4grand and I couldn't have justified the expense in 2009 so I don't think I would have bothered. Plus all the maintenance costs, as any work needed on those internal cables/ disc brakes will mean it's going to the shop. So I worry if things get too expensive it'll kill the sport as many young people may choose something else, the industry will fall over due to lack of sales to too few new riders, clubs will die, and the only people still riding will be old farts like me.
The problem is a mid range bike back then was alloy, now it’s carbon and the cost of frames has not (and probably will never) come down to the same level as metal material frames.
You guys are the best! Listened to the whole thing. Chris Horner had a in-depth clip about the Primoz 1x setup. No chain keeper! In the Giro! How is that possible? And on top of the setup issue, why run a 1x? It’s a climbing bike, if it’s too heavy, pick a more appropriate bike. The 1x forces cog jumps that might prevent you from spinning at a perfect cadence. You’re Primoz in the Giro! What is going on? Still love my 11 speed Shimano Rim Groups. Ultegra mech and Dura Ace/Ultegra di2…but Always a SRAM crank. No D-Fly on Campy???? Please. Nice to see Jay Vine hammering it in the Giro!
Great job again, guys 👌 never get bored listening to you guys bantering away. Very entertaining. You have nailed it with this content, show format and your personalities.
Most retail buyers aren't choosing bike purchase by group-brand. Frame/brand fit and complete bike price are driving sales. New-to-the-culture riders don't know anything different between the branded form factors on the bikes they are shown to buy.
Have you noticed that Jumbo Visma has had an inordinate amount of technical failures since changing to SRAM? Also, I find it very disappointing that road racing has gotten to the point of changing kit mid stage. Gone are the ethos of days gone bye.
Has peak bike been and gone with what we are seeing now? In terms of the campag, had a fair few of their groupsets and more recent the ekar which I really like and get on with. Next bike... previous gen record is looking a better option
Love it. Great format and the best review of the new Campag wireless SR I’ve seen. I agree launch was underwhelming and TBH I’m disappointed in the latest iteration from Campagnolo. Been a longtime campy fan and still think their 11sp EPS SR rim brake was the best. Concern now is that Campag may lose more market share and run risk of becoming obsolete in next few years. 😮
I don’t think the Enve Melee was as big as a flop as you think it was. I see them everywhere in the Western states of the US. I have 4 close friends with them, coming from BMCs, SL7s, and cannondales and they would choose the Melee any day of the week over their old bikes. But ya the colorway definitely isn’t great. I ordered a Custom Road right at launch because they were cheaper than an s-works SL7 and it’s by far the best bike I’ve ever ridden. Getting to choose the geometry and being able to bring in what you’ve liked from past bikes all into one frame is a game changer. And the paintwork can’t be matched.
Happy to be proved wrong on it, as like Jesse said, we thought it was a good bike. I wonder if your local distributor did a good job both sourcing the bike and marketing it. The bike is invisible here, which really surprised me.
@@ChrisMillerCycling ya it must be the rep in our area. I know as soon as the melee was released, quite a few bike shops in the city became Enve dealers and they were selling pretty quick. It’s the same thing with their new gravel bike also. Probably even more popular. But the colors definitely aren’t appealing.
@@ChrisMillerCycling Hey Chris, why not ask Tom at embassy for a spin on the Melee and let us know your thoughts. I’ve ordered one based on a few friends impressions after owning them for a few months and Tom’s recommendation. Feels like a great alternative to the all too common SL7.
Why are there two buttons on the front shift lever? Patents... ffs. Maybe those top end prices are marketing BS. Maybe they just do it to make the lower prices look better - we're probably still getting hosed.
