Anatomy of a Playback Rig: Episode 5

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Things I forgot to say in this video:
Redundant playback isn't dead or unnecessary. When the stakes are much higher (TV, arenas, etc), redundant playback has it's place. But in my entire career I've never had a show I've built fail (or even break 5-6% CPU). Today's computers are exponentially more powerful than the ones that were running back in the day when computer playback wasn't as stable, so if your playback session is designed *WELL*, there should be very little risk.

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2 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 78

@edencartwright1573 3 месяца назад

You know how using a channel can do on the fly vocal processing? Can that be done using pluggins and effects for guitar tones instead of using midi patches on emulators/pedals. Essentially could this be done on multiple channels and not just for vocal processing on one channel. It’d be a game changer if a travel rig could just be narrowed down to just carrying mixer rack and a wireless rack

@eldowns 3 месяца назад

In theory it could be, but getting that down to a low/no-latency, stable setup would be a challenge.

@sarinsahil Год назад

Thank you agani! Would love to see a walkthrough of what the session looks likes and how it triggers different stuff. :)

@thomasbroker69 10 месяцев назад

Wish you hadn’t put background music on this it’s just distracting to watch..

@TSTBand Год назад

Hi Eric! i'm a follower of your Anatomy of a Playback Rig vídeos, each one of them are great! so i thank you for your hard work. If you don't mind i have a question that i would like to know about this particular rig! regarding the use of the Behringer X32 Rack You say that you use it to process the vocal effects, but what i don't know if in Ableton you use midi clips in different sections of the songs to activate the effects that reside inside the x32 rack, or if you use VST plugin effects from in Ableton Live to process the incoming audio and then go to back the x32, because if it's this second case then you are using the power of the processor of your Macbook to do all the work actually and not the x32, making me think why is different using the x32 as an audio soundcard to process vocals, instead of other audiocards like the ones you mention UAD products, that from what i know, live show producers use them for 2 main reasons, being 1 the capability of process the effects inside the hardward unit making the processor of the macbook pro to be free of doing the job specially for live vocals process that needs very low latency, and 2 because could be redundant using 2 of them or more if neccesary. Thank you very much! Eric!

@eldowns Год назад

Thanks so much for the kind words. The short answer to your question is: you’re 100% correct. In this specific setup, we processed the vocals in Ableton because the effect we desired (a certain distortion) was best executed by an Ableton plugin. Regarding latency, with a combination of sample rate and really clean session design, we got it to the point of being virtually unnoticeable. We didn’t use the onboard effects on the M32 because, frankly, figuring that out that programming was more of a pain in the ass than the solution that we knew worked. Also, the distortions in the M32 weren’t quite what we wanted. Regarding UAD, again, you’re absolutely correct on why people (including myself) use those tools. In this case, UAD has some great saturation plugins (love Culture Vulture), but they lack the MIDI programmability of a plug-in like Autotune for example. There are regularly multiple tools for the same job. At the end of the day, I try to choose the one that provides the best product with the least amount of hassle or potential for failure. Hope that makes sense and is helpful!

@TSTBand Год назад

@@eldowns Thank you very much for taking the time to respond! Now i fully understand your perspective and way that you manage your rig, makes complete sense, thank you again!

@CuteBoyLesh Год назад

This is amazing! Would love a video on how to use the M32 as an interface

@eldowns Год назад

That sounds pretty doable. ;)

@TinoSchulz1990 4 месяца назад

I'm currently carrying a MotuAudioExpress with 4 Outputs (Click, Vocal Processing and Stereo Tracks) with me and already thought about using the usb interface of the m32c. What about latency? I heard that the ins/outs of the usb interface add a noticeable amount of delay / latency. Can you tell me more about it?

@eldowns 4 месяца назад

When it comes to latency, UAD is generally seen as the go-to because it has its own on-board processors, which keep latency to a minimum. That said, depending on the type of processing you’re doing, the power of your computer, and your settings, you may be able to get away with it with minimally noticeable latency. If you do decide to go this route, I strongly recommend splitting the vocal line before it hits the interface, that way you have a dry/non-latent signal for monitoring and backup.

@nabilsalahuddin6271 27 дней назад

Can I run a redundant rig with 2 different versions of a Macbook? For example a 2019 macbook pro and a 2012 macbook pro. Thanks

@eldowns 27 дней назад

I would say the larger the gap in the hardware and OS’s between the machine’s the dicier it is, but technically it should work.

@mattjohnson7660 7 месяцев назад

nice rig man! I'm super interested to hear about FOH integration with this setup. Doesn't look like you have any tails / splits built into the rig? ... Is it normal for gigs you show up at to have FOH just drop you PA tails for your M32? ... Or is there enough compatibility to ethernet out to a FOH board? What if their on a different console?

@eldowns 7 месяцев назад

If the house console is compatible, you could feasibly just network it. Another simple solution is to just carry another M32C and network that to front of house. In this case, the operation had a very tight budget, so we mixed the living daylights out of the set, then send a Left/Right/Sub out to the house console and mix the show off of an iPad. Worked like a charm.

@ClockWorkHeroBand Год назад

Are you having to travel with all your own mics or do you get to a venue they put up mics then you run it into your m32 and then snake out of yours to their stage box?

@eldowns Год назад

Ideally, you’d carry your own mics, because your gain/compression/EQ/etc. will be based off of the SPL and frequency response of your mics. However, in the event that you can’t, this technique still works very well, since generally, many mics sound similar.

@OnlyBricksBand 2 года назад

🤯🤯🤯 This is awesome. Thanks for sharing, and thanks for being so responsive in the comments. Totally agree with you on redundancy. In fact, having redundancy in situations that don't call for it would seem to over-complicate things. I also just recently had the lightbulb moment on the DI rack. Lesson learned. I have my own small playback rig which is a version of some of the earlier stuff you've been sharing - PlayAudio12, IEMs and Helix (floor unit), using Ableton to control keys and guitar patch changes. I was thinking I wasted $$$ on PA12 bc the Midas unit is so flexible, but you're still looking at a $2600 upgrade to move to that so maybe a future investment. Couple of quick questions: 1. Where do you get your rack cases? 2. Do you think the TA-1VP is a better option than running through a UAD Apollo? 3. Do you ever use USB cables to connect MIDI devices or are you always using 5 pin? 4. When using the Midas, are you just connecting to the club's FOH mains and taking it from there, or are there other things to consider? 5. At what point do too many questions lead to you charging me for a consultation? Appreciate your input.

@eldowns 2 года назад

1. SKB 2. I love that the TA-1VP just stays locked and loaded all the time and doesn’t require running separate software (Console), but UAD’s newer Autotune sounds about 5-10% nicer. 3. Nah, always MIDI. More solid connection (harder to pull out) and not reliant on CPU in any way. Also keeps USB ports free for stuff that might require them 4. I run 3 lines into 3 channels at FOH: Left, Right, Sub. 5. 4 question limit. My Venmo is @eldowns.

@frankieamado2449 Год назад

something i see in all your videos are the xlr cable clips. Do you have a link for those?

@eldowns Год назад

The snakes I use are all Seismic Audio from Amazon. The individual XLRs are just whatever is around to be honest. I have no preference on those because I don’t think it makes an appreciable difference.

@avalonemerson6781 Год назад

Thank you! Would you mind listing the gear in each rack like you did in previous videos?

@eldowns Год назад

Briefly, Midas M32C, Midas DL32. Sennheiser G4 IEMs + Antenna combiner.

@KitoRodriguez 2 года назад

Which I/o are you using with the Midas M32?

@eldowns 2 года назад

DL32 via AES

@brunolamas7608 2 года назад

This is very very sick! Would love to see more about ableset!

@eldowns 2 года назад

In retrospect, I did a really bad job of explaining how great it is in this video. I think I may try to do an Episode 5.5 and do better lol.

@brunolamas7608 2 года назад

@@eldowns HAHAHA you did not! I just would love to see it compared to set list. I use set list right now and dont really love it. I always wonder how anybody came with a plugin to go against them yet. And also it should coust $300 haha

@eldowns 2 года назад

@@brunolamas7608 okay, I’ll do a follow up. Maybe. Sometime. Lol

@drag0n3y3 2 года назад

i think you meant to say "very INexpensive" for Ableset. Keep up the good work

@guitarcrazzzydude92 2 года назад

“extremely expansive”

@eldowns 2 года назад

This^

@samaphantNovaJewelX 2 года назад

Could you Happier than ever by Billlie Eilish

@sabrosapurr 2 года назад

I'm here for the "peak cleverness" :), but I have to ask, since videos 1-4 in this series have me jussssst about to order an iConnectivity PlayAudio12, is this new setup more about exploring new options and learning new things and not due to a dissatisfaction with the PlayAudio12? My needs are probably way more minimal than whoever you've built this rig for. I'm essentially looking for something I can use in clubs and smalls theaters for now, but that I can build on if I get lucky. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but would you say the iConnectivity PlayAudio12 is still a great way to go, and what you're showing us here is just a different/bigger and in some ways better alternative? Thanks in advance, love these videos.

@eldowns 2 года назад

Couldn’t have said it better myself. The PA12 is still the absolute go-to if you’re looking for a redundant playback interface, and as I mention in the video description, there is still very much a place for redundancy. I still own numerous PA12s and use them when the situation calls for it. However, I will also say that it’s important to buy the right tool for the job, not just the tool that everyone else is using. If you need things like MIDI, audio inputs, etc, the PA12 does not offer that, so another interface could be more relevant. It all depends on the scope of your show.

@sabrosapurr 2 года назад

@@eldowns Awesome. Thanks, man. Appreciate the response. Not sure if you offer consulting, but if you do, I might hit you up via email as I get closer to purchasing and building a rig.

@eldowns 2 года назад

I do. Email me anytime.

@iConnectivitySupport 2 года назад

@@sabrosapurr Yeah listen to Eric.... the PA12 is the "go-to" for reundancy. Not biased commenting at all....

@sabrosapurr 2 года назад

@@iConnectivitySupport I absolutely trust that this is your honest opinion and not at all tied to the fact that you have a horse in this race. FWIW, I believe you anyway :)

@ragingpepper651 2 года назад

Awesome setup! Love the simplicity and creativity. What is the sequencing for the IEM and FOH split? If I’m understanding your setup the vocal mic plugs into the DL16 and is digitally split in the m32c. That way you can process the vocals in abelton and send a clean version to the in ears. Does 1 output channel from the DL16 go to your IEM and another separate output channel go to the FOH?

@eldowns 2 года назад

8 outs of the DL32 are patched as 4 stereo pairs to the IEMs. Then outs 14/15/16 are routed as Sub/L/R. Then those 3 lines are patched into 3 channels of the FOH aboard and the show is run off of an iPad.

@CampfireTalk 2 года назад

Yo! Great to see new content from you on the youtubes. Great room!

@jcalmade Год назад

Did this set up play at any festivals? Im building my rig for a big run of shows both festival and venue and wanted to see if its going to be an issue to have ears and playback all next to me (at drums). Love your work!

@eldowns Год назад

It really depends on the festival. If there’s enough setup time, you could possibly do this (although you’d probably want to CAT5 to a FOH board vs. Wifi + iPad). If it seems like a logistical hassle though, it would be easier to bypass this and just drop into their system.

@runesig Год назад

Great video! I am also using a M32C. But one question: you are now using the built in USB card to transfer audio from Ableton?

@eldowns Год назад

That’s correct.

@timothytay4744 Год назад

Thanks for sharing, inspired me to think through a mixer as our interface for dante tracks rig

@eldowns Год назад

Dante introduces a whole different set of possibilities!

@pupdad Год назад

As a house FOH guy I would probably hate the automated vocal FX, but if the act has a traveling engineer then that's a pretty sick setup.

@eldowns Год назад

An understandable reaction. However, the effect is pretty subtle and it’s painstakingly gain and EQ matched so no surprise headaches for any engineer.

@pupdad Год назад

@@eldowns Ah, good to hear. I'm sure that rider is still gonna scare some guys but they'll be pleasantly surprised in that case

@eldowns Год назад

We do everything we can to make it as easy as possible for everyone (including the engineer) to sound great. ;)

@samainslie1015 Год назад

Love the rig. For redundancy, could you run the mixer into a mioxm and into a playaudio12 for redundancy? I run out of logic into 3 stereo aux channels in my rack digital mixer, I haven’t tried the mioxm yet but keen to know your thoughts. As I’m going usb into the aux sends and not a di will the mioxm be able to do that? All my physical inputs are used, why I’m using the aux channels. 16 piece band w/track so wanna make sure playback is water tight.

@eldowns Год назад

I’ll be honest, I’m not quite following what you’re describing here. If you wanted to go redundant, you could just use a PlayAUDIO12, running physical inputs into the mixer.

@samainslie1015 Год назад

@@eldowns If I had more physical inputs available, yes. I have a digital 32channel mixer and all 32 are being used across the band, therefore I using the 3 stereo aux channels on the mixer to run tracks via usb from logic

@eldowns Год назад

No, if the MacBooks aren’t connected directly to the mixer, they won’t know it exists. They’ll only see the outputs of the PA12.

@bassplayinggoalie 2 года назад

Why no tracks redundancy? Are you finding Ableton super stable these days?

@eldowns 2 года назад

I’ve never found it to be unstable.

@bassplayinggoalie 2 года назад

Sorry, I suppose I'm asking the wrong question. Showing my age here, but ten years ago I used to tour as playback/keys guy, and we always had an iPod backup (mono tracks, ew) because Ableton or the laptop (singular) could misbehave. At the time we couldn't afford an SW8 + second interface + second laptop. I know a lot has changed since then, but do you have a backup plan if the laptop decides to play up? What are your protocols on good laptop "hygiene" to minimise problems?

@eldowns 2 года назад

Super valid perspective. 10 years ago, computing power wasn’t where it is today - it was far less stable. Things can absolutely still go wrong, and when the stakes are high, I’ll still run redundant, but I’ve personally never had a session crash to date. Your second question is actually pretty deep. Not sure I can answer succinctly in a comment.

@drag0n3y3 2 года назад

Hey Eric. by ANY chance, do have any experience using ProTools in your playback rig. I stumbled upon what you are talking about here when i asked you some questions about your other videos. I thought i had a eureka moment when i realized that i could use all the effects from proTools during our live shows but in ProTools, you have to be recording to use the effects as far as i could tell. Im running basically the same rig except im using a Behringer XR18, an Ipad and a laptop. Any advise on how to add effects to the tracks while playing them back. Maybe i am just too new to proTools to understand whats going on here. Thank you for the videos.

@eldowns 2 года назад

There’s no reason you couldn’t, but you should be *extremely* selective about what effects you use. As to minimize load on the CPU. You should also avoid using any time-based effects (delays, reverbs, etc) unless you want every sound engineer to hate you.

@drag0n3y3 2 года назад

@@eldowns Hmm, ok. my goal is to use ProTools to play virtual instruments, add pitch correction, and do reverb effects and such but i wont do the time based effects now. Heres some videos i found very helpful. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-i3ywIA2wCpI.html and ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VecLA-R1Q94.html Honestly, most videos just tell you what theyre using but they dont teach you how to put the whole thing together.

@eldowns 2 года назад

Your biggest challenge in trying all of that will be latency and stability.

@wadeedwardsjr.9938 Год назад

@@eldowns Would a Waves Soungrid Server be a solution for potential latency issues if @Drag0n3y3 wanted re-create a vocal chain from the mixing session of a song?

@eldowns Год назад

That could do it, or just use an Apollo. But I would enlist the assistance of an engineer for this. You can’t just put a studio vocal chain into a live environment. The mic and acoustic environment are way too different.

@wadeedwardsjr.9938 Год назад

How would you integrate a UAD interface as a vocal processor into this rig? Can you explain the best way to route it for the IEM mix and to FOH? Thanks!

@eldowns Год назад

Pretty easy - think of the UAD like a distortion pedal on a guitar. Just run the lead vocal into a splitter and send the wet side into the Apollo, loading up whatever signal chain you want, then output it to either your IEM mixer, FOH, or split it to both (this depends a lot on your mix/engineer setup).

@wadeedwardsjr.9938 Год назад

@@eldowns It was in regards the setup on eposide 5 here. How would add it into this setup? Thanks a lot!

@eldowns Год назад

Same, really. In the video, we ran the lead vocals into the M32, split it digitally, then sent one side to Ableton, then back to the mixer. With UAD, you’d just split before the Apollo, process in the Apollo, then run into the mixer(s). Make sense?

@wadeedwardsjr.9938 Год назад

@@eldowns Yes it does. Thanks for your time.

@eldowns Год назад

👍🏼

@TampaSkwad 2 года назад

Hey Eric, can this setup work with the Behringer x32 instead of the Midas?

@eldowns 2 года назад

Sure can.

@TampaSkwad 2 года назад

@@eldowns ok sweet, one more question. Our band has 4 singers and we all want to go through Ableton for processing. So we would run through the x32 inputs and split all 4 of those lines to route to ableton then back out to the same channels? The part that has me kinda stumped is when you say route it back to the x32 on a “dry channel” for the iem monitoring. Could you explain the dry channel part?

@eldowns 2 года назад

Honestly, I would be very wary of processing 4 vocals in one session. Def try it, but that could put a big toll on the session. The splitting is a bit hard to explain briefly in a comment, but you essentially run the vocals into the mixer and configure the routing so (for example) Channel 1 gets its signal from Input 1 and Channel 2 gets its signal from Ableton. Then you run the dry vocal back to IEMs because monitoring a tuned and even very minimally latent signal is very distracting.

@TampaSkwad 2 года назад

@@eldowns Ahh gotcha! I’ll try it out and see if it works, thanks brotha.