Ancient Chinese Cavalry Swords - The Heavenly Horse Dao by LK Chen 

The long, narrow, light,backbend Han Dao,is adept at the light armor target, Especially on the horse it can run big circle to get a large power from inertia,very good performance in this video

Give it to Oscar. The narrow grip should fit his paws perfectly.

Hey Matt, I might have to try that out one day. the idea of thrusting with that, and hitting any resistance feels pretty worrying.

Hi folks, Cat Easton... passing through

Yes but Is It cat Easton approved? He looked a Little upset.

The cat: Nothing to see here.... just passing through... :D

*A connection btw the Xiongnu and the Huns* In the old Chinese pronunciations the word for "Xiong" ~ is pronounced something like "Hun" or "Hunn" So yeah, the world "Xiongnu" 匈奴 did pretty much sound like "Hunna" Similarly, modern Chinese word for Hungary is pronounced *XiongYali* ~ but in the old pronunciation the 匈 character recorded by early Qing scholars could be interchangeably be pronounced as *Hung Yali* ~ which sounds very much like Hungary.

Excellent video, Matt! One comment regarding cutting with this sword: as you mentioned, the ring pommel acts as a stop, preventing the sword from flying out of your hand. Grasping the base of this sword's grip, with the ring pommel flat against the heel of your palm, will give you much more control over the edge alignment and over the blade in general. I found that grip to be comfortable and had no issue cutting full tatami mats with it. Also, the hand shock is reduced when holding the sword in this way. Matthew Jensen noted this when experimenting with this grip with the infantry dao.

Those people whom the ancient Chinese were fighting against are Xiongnu(匈奴), at least we Chinese call them Xiongnu, ancient Chinese fought against Xiongnu since warring states period, then Qin dynasty and Han dynasty, during the Han dynasty, Chinese troops won several key battles led by General Weiqing(衛青) and Huoqubing(霍去病) against Xiongnu, Xiongnu then divided into several big tribes, and I believed one or two of these tribes decided to march westward to find new settlements, and the westerners called them "the Huns"，and it is interested that the country Hungary written in Chinese is “匈牙利”，Hun(匈) gary（牙利），the same “匈” we used for “匈奴” (Xiongnu) :^)

For those curious as to the peoples Matt was talking about, they're the Xiongnu. Powerful horse tribes in the Mongolian areas back then until during the mid-Han dynasty, the empire consolidated and drove them out West. And Matt, from watching some others use these early dao, it seems as though you're meant to grip it lower with your pinky and almost ring finger sections on the pommel.

The han cavalry did eventually adopt a curved sword. One Han general observed his mounted soldiers using curved swords dropped by fleeing Xiongnu nomads, which puzzled him as he considered Xiongnu swords of inferior quality. Upon questioning his soldiers he realized that curved sword are easier to handle for mounted combat. Consequently, his army adopted the curved swords for its cavalry.

Came to see the cat comments. I was not disappointed. Though I came a bit early for them.

Cat Easton is checking your cutting form. Also, first.

1st word goes - She-ong (She as in she is a girl. Ong as in long without a L) 2nd word goes - Nu (Nu from Null without the LL). Those are not exactly correct but passable and will convey the message. "XiongNu" is probably what you saw. Xi in chinese tend to sounds like Si (spanish "si"). Now I'm Chinese, and I don't know how the people pronounce themself.

Cat Easton back in the game.

11:13 "...but I do study period horses..." I am now imagining Matt Easton looking at a horse skeleton going all like "Hmm... that's a good horse".

Just beautiful work on that milk bottle. Effortless precision. Always a pleasure watching you swing weapons.

When Matt spoke in the past of a certain archeological discovery about armor through effigy (forgot what it was), the significance of it escapes me. But now I have a feeling that I am witnessing an important juncture in weapon history here: Matt is by far the only RU-vid/scholar I know did research and talked about Chinese swords *in relation to* Western swords of the same period, which is hopefully going to be more mainstream. Amazing.

that cat walking by scares me, I once hit my cat who was left out (without me knowing it) when I was swinging a long 2 hander, it got up behind me and on a back swing I hit his tail, luckily low powered and just superficial cut but it was 10cm long .. freaked me the hell out

People of Han Dynasty really liked black and bright red very much. They had black and red robe for the emperor, black roof with red pillars for buildings , bowls and plates that are black and red, military uniforms with black hats and red shirts. It was quite likely for those Daos to have red and black scabbereds and hilt wrappings.

Need a slow mo shot of Cat Easton

Cat: see and learn my footwork, you cumbersome!

Shee-ong in one syllable with emphasis on ong, and then noo. Xiongnu

I think Matt may have gotten his pronunciation from reading the Wade Giles spelling, which is spelled "Hsiung-nu." Nowadays, it is usually spelled Xiongnu, which usually gets pronounced like "She-on Nu."

The LK Chen are phenomenonly good for their price point. Less than perfect fittings are in line with what I'd expect from a design that historically mass produced.

Distal taper refers to how more of an edgelike it gets, or how much the edge takes up compared to the surface, and profile taper is profile/cross section, how some swords become less meatier or thicker? Nope I reversed it. Profile taper refers to the sword getting thinner across the blade from the blunt edge to the sharp edge, and distal taper is how thick or meaty, as measured vertically or across the going against the edge of the blade/perpendicular to the blade.

Maybe it's an optical illusion, but it doesn't look all that big. Then you compared to that French saber. It's just really thin, I think.

I've usually heard the nomadic peoples of this time and conflict referred to as the "Xiongnu Confederacy" (pronounced shyong new). I believe they were described as an alliance of proto-mongolic and proto-turkic peoples under one leader who I think was called a Khan. EDIT: I forgot to mention, I think the Huns were defeated by the Xiongnu Confederacy and took shelter in the Altai mountains where they were surrounded by enemies. When the Xiongnu were eventually defeated by the Han dynasty, they had the opportunity to migrate and incorporate more peoples, and when they arrived in Central Asia, Europe, and the Punjab, they found a perfect opportunity to do the stuff that, you know, nomads do. May be wrong about that one, though.

Wow! Love all the sword work. But what caught my attention was the equally skilled work with the tape measure. In my experience, the end of the tape never goes or stays where I want, and the edge always gives me cuts! :D

A short lanyard attached to the loop would keep your hand from slipping forward and also prevents you from dropping it. Have anyone ever secured their swords physically to their wrist, and if not, WHY?

Glad to see Oscar is well after the move.

Would be interesting to compare it to a Roman cavalry Spatha sword. As they were made in the same era for the same purpose.

A thought on the small size of the grip. As I understand it, people of the past were generally a little shorter and smaller than modern people of the same area, often due to dietary issues. So... what is almost uncomfortably small to the modern hand might well have been quite comfortable to the ancient Chinese hand. Indeed, it might be that the original users could choke up slightly on the handle as Matt finds he cannot due to lack of room for his decidedly modern-sized hand. Which makes me curious as to what a person with smaller, more slender hands thinks about that style grip.

On the subject of the thrust and lack of guard, I wonder if wearing (leather?) gloves could provide adequate protection in the event of the hand riding up the grip and onto the blade when thrusting. Or alternatively, could there be a material used for gloves that could improve the wielder's grip of the silk wrapping? Also, on the subject of the fittings appearing "bright and gaudy", I wonder if that was intentional/the point. Bear in mind that military aesthetics in the past often featured bright and gaudy colours; for various reasons, from ease of recognition/differentiating from one another to improving morale to intimidating the enemy. In Chinese culture, bright red and yellow/gold would be considered auspicious colours and often go together.

A bicycle would make a good substitute for a horse. Just saying. Lol. Good review. Noticed theyre on kultofathena now. Thats great for US swordsmen...

good guy matt waiting for the kitty to pass :)

In just watching this video, we can see your hand move up the hilt... definitely would think twice about giving point myself (not a swordperson at all) and I really think putting a little finger through that ring is a good way to break something, especially if giving point and especially giving point on a horse!

So good to have knowledge and swords of different countries for comparison. All came to a similar conclusion of need of certain length. Westerners have greater size and strength, and therefore can use thicker and heavier(therefore stronger) weapon/blades.

If you use a loop of cord with the ring then it will limit how far forward your hand goes unless it breaks. They may have used silk for this and silk is strong.

The pattern welding is actually historically accurate. They did fold the steel at that time. You can see the pattern wielding in this post: thomaschen.freewebspace.com/photo.html Also, I don't know what sword did LK Chen base his design on, the handle I see on a Han dynasty longer blade is typically longer as well. The handle doesn't seem to be that short. Like this one: wildfiregames.com/forum/uploads/imageproxy/u6kPm1w.jpg.22f6abba4bec47ba58ed8c99da661b6a.jpg

Thought on the grip: if this is a 1:1 reproduction of a historical sword, then the grip should be sized for a Chinese man living some two millennia ago. Funny thing, though; men tended to be smaller 2000 years ago than they are today, which means ancient hands were also smaller than modern hands. What feels tiny to us may have merely been snug to a Han cavalryman. I’m all for historical accuracy, but LK Chen may need to consider this in future models.

It's just something I was shown once by an instructor with a tai chi sword, so not necessarily historical, but he showed me how to tie a sash to the pommel and then wrap it around the hand almost like a boxing wrap so as to bind the sword to the hand and support the wrist and ensure good form on the grip similarly to how a tulwar pommel does.

I think that the red and the brass fittings overall match the Chinese aesthetic of red and gold. Of course, this could be more of a modern thing and back then they might have preferred different colors. But in the present day red and gold are a big part of the Chinese aesthetic and you see it in a lot of different things from clothing to interior decor. Red and gold is also a very popular color combination with US Marines and USC fans and alumni. So, being 2 out of the 3 (a Marine and Chinese) I, naturally, have no problems with the red and gold color scheme of this sword.

I've noticed that many of the Asiatic "cut centric" swords have a type of ring or circular pommel. What is the possibility that they were intended to be used in conjunction with a wrist strap or some type of lashing to keep the hand from slipping off the end?

Insert the tip of the pinky the other way, that way the ring hilt sits on the heel of your hand. Ring finger will lock into the joint of the ring to stop it slipping out your hand.

31:03 And this, ladies & gents, is how it's done!!!

The sound of the sword wind and the impact sounds almost like the sound of a whip

could it be, that they had some sort of special glove, that helped in putting the little finger through the ring or helped in some other way ?

I do often wonder about the accuracy of any reproductions. Weapons from the past, especially considering the further back you go, without verifiable period artwork to match the artefact itself, we really don't know for certain if the designs are accurate. For instance, do we know for certain there were absolutely no crossguards or weighted pommels on these? The empty rings on the end seem as if that could be the result of a decorative pommel either being removed or disintegrating over time. Could it be that perhaps the crossguard element was something added by each individual, kind of like personalization?

Looking at the way the log were sliced into 3, seems like Matt is working on his Katana skills.

This guy sure knows a lot about sooords

Matt, if you want to learn how to pronounce Chinese words as an English speaker, look up the Yale Romanization, it's much better than either Hanyu Pinyin and Wade-Giles for teaching English speakers how to pronounce Chinese words on sight. Xiongnu is pronounced: "syung nu".

Not only a long blade; but the cavalry will have been mounted on small horses by modern standards.

This is an ancient sword? 0_0 that's incredible for its time

Ahhh, so this is where the Sea People went

Sometimes the packages get warped from being stacked on in a weird way. That’s usually on the fault of the people in charge of the delivery process. Sword manufacturers should take before pictures prior to sending out their product.

I suspect that this idea, that the speed of the horse is enough to deliver a blow must be an overstatement of sorts. If we look at the movies of cavalry competitions from XXth century, they swing their swords rather widely and very fast. If we look at the paintings of cavalry charges from the XIXth century, they are often depicted attacking with their back edge forward. That only makes sense, if they planned on delivering a swing according to Iwanowski system, where the grip of the sword is allowed to twist in the hand during the cut. That's a powerful blow too. This sword design has its flaws, as you doubtlessly have shown, but it does not mean that the way they were used would somehow nullify those flaws. As you often say yourself, swords tend to be a backup weapon. I suspect that if a cavalryman was surrounded by infantry or found himself in a thick melee cavalry engagement, so he was reduced to cutting himself out from there, suffering from hand shock was the least of his worries. ;-)

Am I going crazy or is that sword on the wall wiggling the entire video.

saw someone swing it around, if you're not executing a perfect hit, the blade whips around, cause its kind of thin

Great review as always!

What if there were wooden handguards ?

This is not surprising. Form will follow function. Oakeshott in "the archaeology of weapons" documents a first century Roman cavalry sword of similar length. Logically, they would have longer blades because longer blades were better for use on horse back. Interesting video

2:50 匈奴 is pronounced as xiōng nú or shiong noo if you exclude the 4 Chinese tones

30:05 Cat Easton returns, hurrah.

I wonder what is the carbon count on the scimitar? And if it is the predecessor to the chokuto of Japan? Nice video sir!

Enjoyed your video so I gave it a Thumbs Up

Personally, I would have added a sword knot attached to the ring pommel. I would adjust the knot/length so with my wrist through the sword knot, it will restrict how forward my hand can go.

I would prefer a hand guard when using the sword on horse. I wonder if the contemporary designs did include hand guard except they got lost in history. For example, perhaps the hand guard was made of organic materials.

Matt! What if they used a cord thru the endslot to bind their hand to the handle?? A few quick turns or a noose would give lots of stability witth no added weight, and great freedom to manipulate the blade......even without squeezing the handle?

It’s Cat Easton!

In Chinese martial arts, the head wraps are done with the back of the sword touching (well, the back of single edged swords, which are called Dao. i.e. "knife"), which takes a lot of the weight considerations caused by the blade balance away. You kind of almost do it over in the video, but starting the contact up much higher than a kungfu practitioner would. With more energetic swings, it also somewhat removes the worry about the lack of guard as your hand naturally migrates towards the pommel. Of course, I've never done any of this on horseback, so I have no idea if any of that is relevant to horseback swordsmanship.

You often discuss points of balance, but for chopping/cutting swords, you may also want to discuss the point of percussion.

It looks a lot like a korean Hwandudaedo, which i guess is a derivate.

The curve of the blade is much more apparent on the cavalry than the infantry, much like a yataghan. As for the Huns, supposedly they carried both long, double edge blades like the Goths as well as shorter single edge blades like a dao or saber. which would make sense if they fought the Han and Sassanians before moving West. Sometimes they carried both with the short sword on hanging on the right side or weak hand side of the belt. Makes sense for a cavalry based army, as a bad cut/slash or falling from the horse could lead you to loose your primary weapon.

Should there be a silk cloth run through that loop and wrapped around the hand possibly? Could help with slippage and hand shock maybe.

I know that one of the reasons for the ring pommel is so you can tie material to it. I've seen Chinese martial artists use swords with cords or sheets of fabric tied to the ring. I suppose it might change the balance of the weapon a bit. It also might be useful for weapon retention.

It is possible that there was a cord through the pommel ring, which when wrapped around the wrist would prevent the hilt from slipping, especially when thrusting. Also, an interesting side note, the Proto-Bulgars seem to have been connected in some way with the European Huns. Here is the sword of Khan Kubrat, first half of the 7th century. It looks eerily similar, however there is the notable addition of small guard, conical instead of straight hilt and a two-point suspension scabbard. Seems like a plausible evolution of this earlier Xiong Nu sword type. diplomaticspectrum.com/images/2019/exhibitions/kubrat_/exhibition_kubrat_up.jpg

Regarding weapons development due to external threat. There was this obscure Chinese period film I saw several years ago titled "The Sword Identity" that was basically about how a particular Chinese sword was developed to counter the Japanese Wakko threat. It was a low budget art film that was pretty interesting for the historical reference content mixed with Chinese martial arts lore and myths.

The shape of this sword reminds me of a Napoleonic British heavy cavalry saber.

I see cat, I like

Someone did mention how to say Xiongnu, and I would mostly agree with their description: shong, like song but with a sh sound and nu, as I have heard it: new. I am not chinese as they are, but that is as I have attempted to pronounce it and the Chinese people I have talked to more or less agreed, it could be a matter of dialect and accent as well though, living in Xi'an there is a dialect here. As for the grip, I do think it looks small, but 2000 years ago I would imagine people may have been a bit-significantly smaller, and that there hand sizes would have followed, so maybe such a small grip is adequate for a smaller population. I personally don't like the lack of a significant guard, but that is how they were made, and it is a wicked long blade which is cool.

Hey Matt! 9:00 I have a quick theory: What if originally the dao came with a little leather or fabric strap loop that went through the ring of the sword, and you hold both the leather loop + the hilt to prevent the sword from sliding in your hand? That would work I think

Hopefully, LKChen had sent you their new Song Dynasty hand Dao. Those are very specialized weapons with very unique shape. Want to see your take on them. Same with the Gale Wind Ming jian. It’s a more modern take on a jian and very different from the ancient ones such as the Chu jian and the Flying Phoenix.

I can't remember where I saw it but it says it has string around the ring and string are also rap around you had making it hard to drop the sword

​@scholagladiatoria Greetings! Polo players can hit real hard with full swing, and polo is a military game actually to improve the hit probability and strength of the mounted troops. (Tip: if you want to better your swings & strength with the saber, you can try polo on foot also and learn how to strike with the polo mallet.) These "han era" swords are called ring swords, and are made by sassaians and alans as well, the xiognu adopted/traded them, if you can check a hun sword, you can maybe realize the chinese type was improved by the huns. Such ring swords were used also by the avars of the Avar khaganate (probably an ancestor of modern day hungarians, alongside with the huns and the scythians of Asina-clan, who formed the leading layer of steppe peoples, and dissolved in them). Then the avars / varhuns improved the ring sword into the saber by curving the blade, hence the birth of the (european) saber (later the indo-european speaking part of Europe adopted light cavalry copying the hungarian sample). Same happened with the yayoi/miao people when copying chinese swords (so the curved blade tachi was born). Volga-bolgar, danube-bolgar, khazar, bashkort, chuvash and madzsar tribes started to use the curved saber, they are from the same cultural era. Kievan rus and Novgorod adopted the saber also, since they are not only slavs, but have turkish and finno-ugrian ancestors as well, and also absorbed them. So there is organic connection between the chinese sword and the french/english/prussian/etc sabres, IMHO. :) You are comparing the grip small but chinese hands are small. :) Cut is not straight because you have to pull (or push) also. The ring has to have a tassel (loop), so you put it onto your wrist (like with a real saber), it prevents falling off when held gently (you hit hard, you just simply let the sword grip go). BTW, big thumbs up for you, I never thought anybody would be so clever to see the relations between this sword an the saber. :)

It is good to see that they have improved the quality of this sword a lot since the version they sent to Skallagrim to test. That version was pure garbage, and some got really but hurt that I said so. As it looks from your review, is the quality of this sword very good now. Specially considering the price on it. I totally agree with you on the grip design and the use of shiny brass and red/orange wraps, but I guess that is how it could originally have been made. I too would prefer a different color on the wraps and the use of casted bronze instead of shiny brass.. To me, the red/orange wraps and the shiny brass makes it look like a cheap souvenir sword sold at tourist spots and in airports. I am still considering to buy this sword, but if I do, I will make some changes to it. It might not totally look like the original anymore then, but it will for sure look better and be better to use.

Nice sword

Probably used in a simular fashion to Cossacks or Tartar sabre

I don't have enough experience with swordplay or cracking a whip to say for certain but from the way you described this sword and watching the way you use it and from watching people either in movies in stunts or demonstrations with whips I keep thinking this sword is a whip even the handle looks like a whips handle to some extent on that sword all you have is a metal Loop whips usually just have a knotted ball on the end to keep it from slipping out of your hand and whips slash through the air granted the recovery is how you snap it to make it crack but that sword in particular makes me wonder if you handed it to someone who's good with a whip but has little to no experience with swordplay could they use it and could they use it well, you said it's tip heavy when you use it, that's what a whip focusses on the tip.

Watching the cutting and I’m thinking that to reduce the sword sliding in the hands the pinky finger should probably be down all the way next to the ring pummel

If you have a very short & thick lanyard, would that not prevent hand from overshot into the blade?

What does this single-edged sword have in common with curved-edged sabre? Up to now I thought that the determitative factor of sabre is curvature of blade (in opposition to curvature of blade in, say, falchion)?

i think the grips maybe work better with the han era fencing gloves or those fingerless battle mittens

I believe the modern day people of Hungary are closer related to people who came from around the area of the Black Sea, like the Sarmatians and Scythians, and most likely Roman and Greek

XiongNu around 2300BC in China became Tujue around 400AD were the Huns and Turks respectively in Europe. They left China because of bad weather conditions in Mongolia and Siberia. The turks split into two kingdoms in China. The east kingdom decided to integrate with the Han Chinese during the Sui Dynasty, The west kingdom settled in Central Asia and became countries with names ending in -STAN today. Some moved south into the Indu-Kush region. Certainly Turks acknowledge their ancestors came from China is all true. People in ancient China look a lot different then. You can trace how people migrated by studying their language. Modern DNA tools make a lot discoveries today.

The red and “gold” colors are traditionally used for good fortune in Chinese culture and symbolism.

The Zhan Ma Dao (Horse Cutting Dao) was contemporary with this cavalry dao during the Han dynasty, right? Zhan Ma Dao's are curved so I wonder why they went with a straight blade rather than a curved one they equipped for anti-cavalry infantry.

That hand shock may have been reduced by the armor worn at the time.

Look, it's Cat Easton!

From my limited knowledge, and what I have read about that time in that region, that sword is MUCH more important to world history than even it's potential for being the genesis of medieval swords around the world, that sword is directly related to one of the most important moments in world history. The key is in the name. Heavenly Horse. So, yes, the Chinese Empire was smaller than it ultimately became or is today, they'd kind of managed to come together, and Qin Dynasty had created a unified China, but they indeed faced a number of threats, which around the time of this sword's earliest iterations, was the Xiongu, but they were not alone, there were all kinds of 'barbarians' out there, many seemingly bent on attacking and pillaging Chinese territory. The Chinese court sent out ambassadors to many places to the West, to seek alliances in exchange for the lucrative trade wealth China offered, and one of them made it to Greece. Kind of. You see, when Alexander the Great had pushed in to Asia, the furthest he reached was the region of Bactria, which covers Afghanistan, and parts of Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. There, the Greeks founded a city, Alexandria.... they actually had a thing for the name obviously, naming a dozen cities such.... but this one was the 'farthest Alexandria'. From this city, a small Greek province grew. Essentially, an exclave of Alexanders Hellenic empire. The Chinese made contact with these people, and were immediately impressed. They traded, and made some alliances, and most of all, they were able to buy Greek cavalry horses. These horses were considered so magnificent by the Chinese they named them Heavenly Horses. Due to this, some time later, the Chinese returned to Greeks and asked for more horses, this time, many many more. The Greeks did not want to sell them. I have read a few reasons for this, one being they did not have enough, though another being they did not want to contend with a China that had beaten the Xiongu and were now facing them, armed with their own excellent cavalry horses. Whatever the reason, the Chinese were in a dire predicament too, they had NOT yet defeated the Xiongu, or maybe it was the proto-Mongols, they had a few threats, and saw those horses as a Superweapon which could change the balance of power, and lead to them finally defeating these enemies which were attacking the relatively young Empire. Thus, Greece and China went to war over horses. In fact, it is called the War of he Heavenly Horses. I mean, Australia went to war with Emus, some Italian City States went to war over a bucket, and there was one war started over a pig, I believe, so I mean, I guess horses are not the dumbest reason for a War in history. The Chinese won, and Greeks lost their horses.... and their exclave, and the War refugees that went home, took valuable knowledge of East. Many did not go all the way home, and many who did returned to places they knew along the way. Essentially, this ultimately opened up the Silk Road. It kind of existed long before then, but that really kicked it in to gear. Many people think of Marco Polo being the man, and his book, with opening up the Silk Road, but all he did was inspire Tourism, really, as the trade routes had existed for over millennia by the time he wrote that. The Romans and Chinese traded with each other for centuries before he, for example. In fact, the opening up of the Silk Road was one of the most important developments in human history, and it really began after that War, fought over the horses the Chinese developed that sword for use upon.