Cutscene version of the complete banter between Anders and Justice from Awakening expansion for Dragon Age: Origins. Created using toolset. #dragonageawakening #dragonageorigins #dragonageoriginsbanter
What a pair of nice and well adjusted individuals surely they will over time bond in a way that allows both of them to become positive and forward thinking people that aren't a danger to those around them
I wouldn't mind the way they devolved the characters if it hadn't been done in a way that makes Anders so dang annoying. He was a good character in Awakening. They both were.
@@federicomachado811 Sounds like the only angry one here is you. I stopped being annoyed by this years ago. Now I just get a feeling of disappointment whenever I think about it. Still never allowed him in my party last time I played. The constant bitching got on my nerves. I'm not gonna argue with you over whether he's still good in DA2. Taste is subjective and all that.
@@spectralassassin6030 I agree they both where awesome. Sadly DA is that kind of game where people do not always change for the better. Hardened Leliana is also an example of that. I hate to see Anders like this, but it is not realistic that a fan favorite gets always all the glorious outcomes.
You can already see the embryo of DA2’s Anders in the banter between DAO Anders and Justice. Anders’ awareness of the mages’ unjust condition has not yet merged with Justice’s resolution to act. It’s sad honestly, Anders is one of those tragic characters that always break my heart
Ser Pounce-a-lot dialogue was always unintentionally hillarious when it was Oghren that was suddenly doing his meows. I knew that Oghren is an animal but come on.
I’m still bitter about his betrayal in DA2. He was one of my favorite characters in Awakening and I wish BioWare had more time to work on DA2. Turning lovable Anders into a tragic character is an interesting choice that I don’t necessarily mind, I just wish his writers had more time to work on him. They definitely needed to flesh him out more so that he wouldn’t be so annoying, with him constantly harping on about mage rights and Templars. His character arc plot wise didn’t need to be so focused on Templar bashing and him being an abomination.
I didn’t find him annoying. He constantly went on about it because it was a pertinent, ongoing, and highly dangerous issue. Should he have shut up about the oppression of his people like a good little victim? I don’t think there’s enough “Templar bashing” in the series, they deserve a lot more. The only true difference between DAA Anders and DA2 Anders is that he matured, and found himself in a place (Kirkwall) that has such darkness that it would depress anybody, on account of the incredibly thin veil, violent history, and proximity to Corypheus’ prison. What he actually did was spend years tirelessly working for the liberation of mages, it just so happens that we as players hear it more than see it. He wasn’t just words, or moaning. I also think it’s a stretch to say he betrays you. But I suppose that depends on which side you’re on- the oppressors or the oppressed. Personally I’m on his side and would have helped him if he’d felt able to trust me enough to tell me what his plans were. He was right about everything that people accuse him of ‘whining’ or being paranoid about, and what he did was his only option after exhausting all other means. I do think that a lot of people just don’t like it when companions have their own autonomy and act outside of what we the player command of them, and thus hate that Anders acts of his own accord regardless of what we say or do. That’s not factoring in that his writer is grossly ableist and used him like a voodoo doll and revenge porn for her mentally ill ex. I’m very glad the lead writers put their foot down against certain other things she was trying to do.
@@AndersWatches I say betrayal cause he does betray Hawke, who could be the best friend & ally he could have or the best thing that could ever happen to him. He takes Hawke’s love/trust and uses that to convince Hawke to help him with a task that is supposed to help him, and blatantly lies to Hawke’s face about what he’s really up to. Then has the balls to make a joke about explosions. Sure, he says it was to protect Hawke but let’s be honest and call it what it is, manipulation. He starts a war that puts the very innocent mages he’s fighting for in danger and killed many innocent people in the process. But hey, at least he made a point right? Let’s not forget that he’s hypocritical and abrasive to just about everyone in the party. Makes it really hard for me to find him redeemable. Especially if he comes along during Fenris’ quest Alone. He’ll actually approve of giving Fenris back to Danarius. Danarius, who raped and tortured Fenris for years when all he wanted wanted to do was free his family from slavery. I also want to take a moment to say I always side with the mages in every game and play through. I’m all for companions being able to have their own mind and form their own opinions outside the player, but let’s be honest here. Anders and Fenris are both equally annoying with their constantly harping on about mages and Templars, and it only gets worse when they are in the party together. They essentially beat the dead horse into the ground and it’s enough to make anyone want to tear their hair out. It’s like hearing a friend complain about a toxic ex day in and day out. Sure, call the Templars and mages out on their bullshit but no one likes hear someone complain about the same topic over and over again. And one more thing. You claim he exhausted all means of finding a peaceful solution but did he really? Did he truly try to convince Elthina that the situation was dire and that she needed to intervene before things got out of hand with actual proof that something was wrong? Or did he just go on his usual tirade that Templars are evil and mages needed to be free? In which case that wouldn’t endear Elthina to take up his cause and take him seriously. If he actually presented proof that Elthina couldn’t ignore that would have lead to Meredith being removed from her command and being transferred. Cullen as her second in command would have taken over as Knight Commander and would have seen to the Templars who were abusing the mages. That would have calmed things down and Anders would have had better results.
@@sophiacousland3452 if you think that Anders started the war you weren’t paying attention. It started long before he blew up the chantry. Besides, it was a war that needed to happen. He gave mages the chance to fight back instead of being slaughtered like cattle in an abattoir. His acts were righteous and just. The devs acknowledged that Anders giving approval for that was a mistake they wish they hadn’t done. And let’s not pretend that that is even remotely compatible with the rest of Anders’ values and character. I view it as a mistake and nothing more. Anders literally did exhaust every other possibility. He spent six years trying to spread word of the plight of mages, he ran a free clinic, giving all his time and energy to help those in need. He also aided in rescuing mages from the gallows during that time. The time we see Anders speak to Elthina (a despicable human being who wouldn’t ever acknowledge the issue no matter what because she is complicit, and frankly many times more at fault than Meredith) is not the first time he had done so. He knew they’d never listen. His only choice was to do something they couldn’t ignore. And let us not forget that an Exalted March was in the works. Let us not forget that Meredith was just waiting to initiate the Rite Of Annulment. Let us not forget that there were a hundred other would-be Merediths in the Order that would replace her and continue overseeing abuses and atrocities, even if the attack had been on her or the Templar barracks. And it would have all been swept under the rug, and within themselves be used as confirmation bias against mages anyway. The only option was to do something that the world could no longer ignore. It is also not insignificant that Anders did it without the use of magic. And he made it clear that it was his act. Still, the corrupt chantry and its templars predictably chose to blame all mages. Anders did everything right. The only thing I wish he’d done differently was trust that a mage or pro-mage Hawke would be not only supportive of his plan, but willing to help so he wasn’t facing it all alone. He tried to protect his friends and ensure they could not be found culpable. I cannot blame him for that, and I do not view it as a betrayal I. Any way shape or form. Some things are more important than any one person or their feelings. The plight of the Mages and the terror of the Templar Order are definitely included in those things. As for his abrasiveness, how can he be blamed? His theories were correct. And yet everybody constantly invalidated him and treated him like a whining child with paranoia. Not to mention the very obvious impact that Kirkwall itself has on Anders, a man clearly especially sensitive to the oppressive atmosphere created by a history steeped with evil, the incredibly thin veil, and proximity to Corypheus. Fenris in the timeline of the game is not comparable. He has absolutely zero character growth and retains a vile prejudice even when its absurdity is right before his eyes. Fenris, who despite everything he has been through, doesn’t bat an eye at the subjugation and torture of innocent people, just because they happen to share a trait with his own abuser. He refuses to see mages as people. Anders is an arse to him only after his attempts at civility are rebuffed (check their banter if you don’t believe me). Anders dislikes Fenris because he supports his oppressors. Fenris dislikes Anders simply for being a mage. Cullen “mages aren’t people like you and I” Rutherford would not have done anything of the sort. It took the chantry explosion and Meredith’s response to it to snap him out of his own blind prejudices.
@@AndersWatches True, Anders my not have started the war but his actions were the catalyst that sparked an all out war. I do acknowledge that he tried his best and poured every ounce of his being into helping his fellow mages. And yes, for every Meredith there are others like her waiting in line but Cullen was her second in command. He would have replaced her should she have been stripped of command. While he agreed with Meredith to an extent, he wasn’t as extreme. She hid actions from him that even he wouldn’t have approved so he wasn’t aware of everything that went on. You also have to realize Cullen was at his lowest at this point in time and he had been traumatized during the Blight. But I’ll leave it at that as that’s a whole other can of works that could be covered in an entire video. I will say that in Inquisition he regretted the man he became due to his trauma and wished he had done more to help the mages. So yes, had the maelstrom that was Kirkwall calmed down he would have seen to the Templars if he was Knight Commander. Cole even mentions that Cullen was one of the good ones. As for Fenris, he and Anders are two sides of the same coin so I understand why they are both loved and hated. They were both abused and enslaved, both hate the factions that their abusers belong to, and both did not know how to heal their trauma or let go of their hatred. It is precisely that anger and hatred that corrupted Justice when Anders wanted to help him. It is also fear and hatred that keeps Fenris from trusting mages. He witnessed and heard numerous atrocities committed by mages and was abused by mages in every way. That kind of trauma doesn’t just go away, especially since Fenris lived in fear of Danarius finding him and taking him back to Tevinter. By the time he arrived in Kirkwall it had only been 3 years since he escaped and he had reached the point where he was tired of running and was willing to lure Danarius towards him so he could be free for good.
What else could they have done with him? That was his arc. I have to say that since Awakening I found him very annoying, but at least in DA2 (though still VERY annoying plus crazy) he was more interesting.
and this is why he turns into a complete lunatic in Dragon age 2 Anders tells you it was his personality that changed Justice, by the looks of it it was justice that changed him. he just wanted to stay away from Templars and stuff, but Justice wants to kill them.
Looking back, wouldn't it have been more appropriate if it were Jowan? Jowan already has a degree of resentment at the Circle, so it'd be less of a change in character if Justice were to possess Jowan instead of Anders.
Part of what I loved about Anders in Awakening was that he hated the circle but still understood it's uses. A mage without training is a huge danger after all.
@YourLadyKnight I feel like they could have done that without making him so dang awful. Devolving a character can be really good story telling but I don't think they handled it very well. I fully understood what was going on with him and all I could think was how much I just wanted him to shut the hell up.
Da2 Anders is mature, realistic, committed and his voice is sexy af. despite trying to go with other options I cant stop myself from romancing him every time. No question everything he does is justified and to say otherwise is just spineless chantry apologism.
SPOILER ALERT TLDR: 9/10 retcons are bad. No matter how you look at this, its a retcon; and a pretty bad one. Period. Wow, reading all the comments of people D riding DA2 - I can tell they didn't play Awakening. 1.Anders character is like that of Cap. Jack Sparrow he had escaped the Circle multiple times (it was a bit of mystery why he hadn't been made Tranquil) and was know by Templars as an escape artist. 2. Like Cap. Jack he is all about personal freedom with no agenda or master plan, just an every-man for himself type. In fact, he is aware and "pro" Circle except the whole policing where they can walk and sleep. 3. His personal quest is about sticking out for him against the Templar trap. Again, like Cap. Jack Sparrow, Anders has always been looking out for himself and has never had someone really looking out for him. To draw the parallel, in Pirates 1 Jack is introduced alone in a raggedy, sinking lifeboat and later exposed as a betrayed Captain, but by Pirates 3 both William and Elizabeth considering him a friend and protect his back despite Jackie's chaotic antics. Also his crew takes commands from him just as much as Barbossa (then again Hector was 1st Mate anyways but I digress) 4.Anders actually says he rather stay safe in the Keep when the final battle starts and even has approval gain if not selected for the final party. If this doesn't describe Anders' character I don't know what will...also this is important because it will come up later in the idiosyncrasy of events. 5.As for Justice, Justice said he had no interest in the Living World and was transported by circumstance not choice. 6.His personal quest he makes an oath to return immediately to the Fade after the battle at the Keep, because he is hurting the wife of the man he is possessing. It gruesome parading the decaying body of her husband. 7.Justice states that should the body falling combat he would disappeared much like a normal death as he was aware he didn't belong with the living and also the body was already decaying it was only a matter of time. 8. Despite finding interesting things in the Waking World after all, Justice is aware that its not his place and quickly vanish to the Fade when the time comes. 9.With that said the Epilogue clearly states that Justice was cut down but unknown if he left to the Fade (Remember he made an oath, plus all his other reasons. Also fast-forward to DAI and look at Cole) 10. Now the trickiest, for Anders recount of events for DA2, it would make the canon choices in Awakening as follows: both Anders and Justice personal quests completed - otherwise Anders is taken by the Templars and doesn't learn the trail of his phylactery and Justice fights Darkspawn away from Wardens Anders was the final fight - this is what makes him leave the Wardens and become branded an apostate by Chantry once again and board passage with Isabela (which is omitted in DA2) Justice stayed defending the Keep - this how Justice falls in combat as stated by Anders and the circumstance of their fusion in DA2 The city of Amaranthine was saved - this is the port Hawke and Anders used to board passage to Kirkwall The Keep may or may not have been fully upgraded (Justices gets decapitated by Darkspawn either way) HOWEVER... If Anders and Justice are separated then Anders couldn't have been possessed. If Justice joins the final fight he survives and can either serve the Wardens, kill the Darkspawn on his own, be bid to leave Kristoff's body by the wife, or ominously leave at the ruins of the Keep after saying "Now I know what to do..." if no personal quest and the Keep falls (but that would mean Darkspawn not Templars) If Justice fights the Darkspawn whether under the Wardens or alone he "completes" his Purpose and turns in the body to the wife by dying at her doorstep. Remember Anders has to be in the final fight to canonically leave the Wardens(after DA2 release) otherwise, he eventually comes back and stays forever(before DA2 release) or is hailed as a hero of the people if left behind in fully upgraded Keep, otherwise he dies from an arrow to the neck surrounded by a hundred Darkspawn killed with magic.
