Another Fatal Vmc Demo Stall Spin!! N369BB 4 Dec 2023 

A 500 hour CFI with all the confidence in the world never realizes just how little experience they actually have.

Retired 777 captain for the same airline you work for Juan. Love your channel and what you do for aviation! Keep up the good work.

I am a "seasoned" pilot with 2500 hours over 40 years. I just got my multi-engine (it's about time!) and I really wish this video was available before I trained. This was a really interesting detailing of spin recovery... and avoidance. The dance with VMC during training and then on the check ride was disconcerting, and frankly not fully elaborated. I will send this video to anyone I know going into multi training. Thanks Juan.

I am a retired UK airline pilot with a tad under 20K hours, which includes a few thousand on light to medium twins. This has got to be the best channel out there for disseminating post crash information. I learn something every time I tune in. Thanks for taking the time to produce these interesting and informative videos Juan.

This is exactly what happened to me on my travel air checkride. One moment we were stalling and the next we were upside down. The only thing I believe saved me us is that I did a lot of spins for my aerobatics rating. Poor instructor was like a deer in the headlights. Very lucky and very scary.

That call out to ATC was basically the equivalent to people calling out to their mom, at the point of death. Sadly, as a Combat Medic, I've heard that voice before. R.I.P. to both of them.

You’re absolutely correct! We don’t need to prove the book Vmc speed. When I checked out in the Aztec, my instructor would only let me demonstrate Vmc with 1/2 rudder. We’re demonstrating a concept, not certifying the Vmc speed! Problem…. Some DPEs will only accept full rudder. Hence, problems

This is the same story that the Twin Comanche went through way back in the 70s. The Twinkie got a bad rap for so many bad outcomes in Vmc demos. Training was changed to having the instructor block the rudder so that the Vmc affect could be seen way before the stall was actually approached. Back then the FAA even required that the Vmc demo had to be demonstrated at low altitude in order to enhance the visual affect of the importance of doing it correct. THAT was changed after several crashes. Forget history and we are bound to repeat it!!!

Hearing that oscillating wind noise in the background of the atc call is just chilling, may they rest in peace. Strength, love and courage to those they left behind.

The 1500 hour rule just meant I had no interest in pursuing airlines anymore. Now that I can finally afford training I can't (or dont want to) afford the pay cut I'd have to take to pursue that career track.

That upside down flip also happens in a 172 when practicing spins. One of the huge advantages of those planes, is that they are approved for spins if the weight is kept below the utility weight threshold, which was 2000lbs...at least in ours. Skyhawks really don't like to spin so you have to add a bunch of energy to kick things off...especially with a big boy or two in the seats. The way we did it was to get to a safe altitude (for us it was 4000' AGL) then get really slow and as the horn was blaring, add full left rudder and a healthy shot of gas. That unit would snap onto its back in a heartbeat. But like I said, they really don't like to spin so you have to keep rudder in and stick all the way back and even then, it would usually flop out of the spin on its own. What a 172 really does like to do, is spiral. That's the puppy that tears wings off of inadvertent IMC aircraft. It's usually a subtle thing at first. Basically, it starts off as a gentle, coordinated turn. If it happens during a boring part of cruise, you might not even notice. Before too long, the increasing G load may get your attention but then you're trying to figure out WTF...so what happens when you notice the altimeter unwinding? You pull back while in a steep, diving, accelerating, turn and BLAMO! Maybe you snap into an extra violent accelerated spin/stall. Maybe you lose a wing. Spin recovery won't always work with a spiral dive and could make it worse. The first rule of spiral recovery, is knowing that you're in a spiral. Juan, I would be very interested in your take on spiral dives. To my way of thinking (and of course there are plenty of exceptions) spins are more of a low, slow, patter problem...and spirals are a cruise killer. With a spin, it's the ground that's the killer. A spiral can tear a plane apart without hitting a thing. Thanks for doing what you do.

As of a study in 2017, the average Flight Instructor was 23 and only instructed for 10 months. Just enough time to get into the right seat of a regional. I totally agree with your assessment.

My first airplane instructor was a low time kid who was an excellent instructor. Early 1970. At the time, I needed 5 hours solo and the recommendation of a flight instructor for my airplane single engine land to be added to my commercial Rotorcraft helicopter. I had just got out of the Army as a Warrant Officer helicopter aviator and passed my civilian written test. There was no check ride required for military pilots converting to civilian ratings in the type aircraft the flew in the military. I had just about 2000 hours of helicopter time with 1600 plus in combat as a pilot, aircraft commander and instructor pilot. The GI bill was paying the bill so all I had to do was pass an oral and check ride. With a total of 22 hours airplane time, I was a commercial pilot. Passed my instrument check ride and multi engine check ride with less than 75 hours airplane time. I still was not 23 so I could not take my ATP training. All training was done in Piper aircraft. Multi engine was in an Aztec (Aztruck). Now that I am 76 and a retired airline pilot, I think civilian pilot training is a disaster from day one to your first type ratting. Flight training needs to be rethought with more done in ground procedures trainers and motion simulators. It has to be cheaper, safer and produce a much better pilot.

Risk vs training value was always wrong with the VMCA demo. Twenty years since I was a CFI and amazed they still do it.

I soloed in 1972 and retired in 2015 - initially Alaska-style bush flying (minus the bush, this was in Iceland where the weather is even nastier and bush is hard to find). The absolutely best advice I ever got was before by solo flight: If the airplane starts behaving funny, UNLOAD (reduce the angle of attack)! When the airplane behaves again, fly out of it. If you mucked up at a too low altitude, you are in deep shite... The same applies if you abuse a light twin (or any multi-engine aircraft for that matter) at altitude; revert the airplane to a C150 mode - chop power and take it from there. If you are struggling on one engine shortly after takeoff, you do not have that luxury, do things by the book or become a statistic. No fumbling around...

My first aerobatic flight lesson my instructor and I were running the prestart checklists. He then showed a billy club to me. He said, "if I tell you to get off the controls and you dont, I'll use this!". We never had a problem.

You’re doing a real great job for the young generation. Please keep doing what you do.

I teach spin entry and recovery in gliders. I hammer the student when he uses aileron in recovery. Using the aileron to pick up the low wing increases the drag/yaw force that increases the spin and reduces the rudder effectiveness. The drag from the aileron is fighting the rudder.

Kershner, who wrote the Advanced Pilot's flight manual, said one of those VMC departures takes about 6000' to recover from. They probably didn't have that, and it also takes the knowledge of how to do the recovery.

A story about limiting the amount of rudder: I was giving primary instruction in a C150, We were working on power on stalls. The student wasn't adding right rudder, and I kept reminding him to do so, but nothing changed. I remarked out loud, "Well, this is gonna be interesting," Sure enough, the plane flipped over on its back, and I called for the controls. Power off, nose down, neutral ailerons, and right rudder pressure. But, the rudder didn't move. I reared back with my right leg and stomped on the pedal which yielded and stopped the rotation. It was then I realized my student had cried out, "OWWW!" I asked him what was the matter. His reply? "My foot was under the pedal when you smashed it."

Great explanation. I'm glad the MEI that I flew with was aware of this condition. He would apply Rudder pressure with his foot just like you described. I didn't understand it at first, but I'm glad he did!

Juan I see and hear your frustration and sadness about these totally preventable tragedies. You are the best there is at explaining what went wrong and how NOT TO DO IT! Thank you for what you do. Blessings.

Got 2088 total time over , 500 in the Airbus. These videos always give the perspective I need to never get comfortable. Thanks a bunch.

Juan, that flat spin demonstration was impressive. Me flying twins for over a decade and I didn’t know that applying power flattens and exacerbates a spin. No wonder they tell you to do incipient stalls only, NEVER to full developed ones either in sim and much less in aircraft. I’m rewatching and sharing.

I was fortunate to have an MEL instructor who knew how to block the rudder during Vmc demo. I could feel it. He was building time for an ATP. Young and Good. Choose your CFI like you choose your doctor.

Condolences. I have only done spin training in a single engine Cessna 152. This video has great info !!! Thank you.

It seems to be what has been missing for years in civilian flying vs military, a real aerobatic training course, believe if your going to fly its as important as an instrument rating.

I currently live in Huntsville, AL and I currently work at a flying club in the area as a mechanic, and I heard about this crash through the people I work with. It shook me a little bit because I myself have been learning to fly, and have recently scheduled my check ride, which I'm very confident I'll pass. At the club I fly and work at, my instructors have always emphasized the phrase, "Aviate, navigate, communicate", especially in an engine failure and a spin, which the club instructors also emphasize. My instructor always drilled the acronym PAER in my head. Power idle. Ailerons neutral. Elevators down. Opposite rudder. Eventually I want to fly for the airlines myself, but at the same time, I don't want to rush my training. Because I want to be as safe a pilot as I can. And learning from the accidents is one way I think will make me a safe pilot. When people say students are being rushed through flight training, I don't have any doubt in that statement at all. In the Huntsville area there is also flight school called Revolution Flight, which this travel air belonged to. I have heard very shady things about Revolution Flight in almost every aspect. Training, maintenance, management, and business. I'd be hard pressed to think part of the cause of this crash was because of the way training is conducted at Revolution Flight. But I'll wait for the NTSB report before I make any assumptions. I would also think part of the problem with bad training is instructors not giving their full attention to their students, because they're just using flight instructing to get to the airlines as quickly as possible. I'm very blessed to have been assigned to an instructor who deeply cares for his students, and does a thorough job in making sure his students are ready for their check rides, both knowledge wise, and flight skill wise.

Beechcraft Vmc training documents advise that instructors must block the rudder movement (with the feet) at a point that results in a simulated Vmc at a speed of 10kts above the aerodynamic Vmc, so that the instructor will have the additional rudder movement available to effect a recovery should the demonstration be mishandled. In my many years of experience of instructing and examining this manoevre, I find that student/candidates are invariably not assertive enough to break the stall timeously (if it occurs)by reducing the angle of attack and restoring roll control. On some aircraft, especially those with a more rear CoG, require a brisk and assertive push on the control wheel to break the high alpha flight regime. Delaying the stall recovery at this point results in an incipient spin, and an autorotation develops very quickly resulting in a full spin. If the instructor/examiner does not catch the autorotation in the incipient stage with assertive control inputs, the flight is at severe risk of tragedy.

If memory serves, twins are not required to demonstrate spin recovery for certification.....unlike a single. As a flight instructor I had to recover from a spin induced during power on stalls in a C172 during a BFR. Two different pilots made the same mistake like you mentioned, they tried to use aileron instead of rudder to keep a wing up during the stall and we went right into a spin. Funny how that happens! I did something similar to what you did. After becoming a flight instructor (and before these incidents!) I rented a C152 and climbed to 10,000 and did spin recovery after spin recovery, sure was fun and probably saved my life!

Well said Juan. Sad to see these accidents happening so frequently. After I obtained my initial PPL, I found a flight school with a 150 aerobat and took lessons on spin recoveries.

I talked to a guy from an airline who said that 1500 hours of flight time just means that pilots end up with more bad habits to unlearn when they make it to an airline.

Great video and a reminder that the rudder can stall as well. I still remember my multi training from 30 years ago, dead foot dead engine BLUELINE! (More of course but you get the idea).

I’m sharing this story in case it saves someone else’s life. My MEI entered a Vmc-induced stall-spin during training in a PA-44 at 14,000 feet. The ONLY way they were able to recover was for the instructor to climb up onto the glare shield while his student performed the PARE recovery items. Full elevator down wasn’t enough to break out of it; the instructor had to physically move forward as far as possible to adjust the airplane’s CG enough for the nose to drop. Had they been lower, they would’ve perished. Might be worth adding to your toolkit; you never know if you may need it.

The US Army suffered loss of life accidents in then B-55 Barons due to Vmc demonstrations because the demonstrations were taken to full yaw loss of control. They found that less than a 5x3" strip exists on the rudder to recover from a spin due to the airflow blanket produced from the horizontal stab and elevator. Later the limit was defined to any indication of control problem such as stall warning, not full directional control loss. This is well discussed in all later Baron Beechcraft POH's. When observed, the Army then had much fewer demo induced spin accidents. To this day, all Baron manuals feature this discussion and limitation. I don't know about the Travel Air, but sensor indication limitation is now observed in many of the airline training academy's. Sorry to go on, but this rudder problem in the Baron is considered a classic example of DIPE, design induced pilot error, something in the design of the aircraft that lures the pilot into a critical mistake. In modern aircraft these problems exist everywhere. You might find this an interesting problem to discuss on a later video. Of course, the training actions you discussed should be taught to MEL instructors and of course, observed. Good job, thanks Juan.

Several years ago Beechcraft flight test engineers determined that if a spin in a Baron was allowed to develop beyond 3/4 of a turn it would become unrecoverable.

It's one thing to pass the mandatory exams, it's an entirely different thing to live and breathe the ideas that encourage the type of aviation safety mindset you're advocating.

Juan this was an excellent expose into WHY GETTING SPIN TRAINING AND/OR A SPIN ENDORSEMENT IS SO IMPORTANT TO SAFETY. Years ago the FAA decided that stall awareness and unusual attitude training was sufficient enough for the initial PPL, where in most other countries they still teach spins, getting in and getting out of them. From my years of general interest in aviation I already knew in general the procedure for getting out of a spin, but it took me reading about them in the Airplane Flying Handbook (which is available FREE online because we pay taxes) when I wrote my lesson plan for my endoresment, and it talks about why every step in PARE is designed the way it is, what each action does to reduce the aggravated stall or how doing the opposite could make things worse. Aerobatics, I agree, is such an eye opener to learning about the dynamics of flight, someday, I want to do more aerobatics when I have the time and means.

I just had my Commercial Multi Engine checkride two days ago, and all of my training for VMC Demos involved the instructor blocking the rudder with his foot. The DPE, however, wanted a full demonstration and did not use his foot to block the rudder pedal. I was sat on the maneuver, but it was very sloppy and I saw my DPE jump up and almost take control of the aircraft.

Very excellent video. Many hours in the BE-95 here. (Remember Vmc demos are gear down flaps up also)

The MEI in the video was 30 years old and was almost at ATP minimums… he was a great guy and a great pilot, RIP Nikul

In the legendary words of Bob Hoover, the aircraft only responds to airspeed

This is a life saving video. Should be required viewing for every single multi engine student and instructor. Thank you Juan. I did not have an appreciation for this concept before watching this.

When I was a MEII, the first thing I did was teach the same things mentioned in the video before attempting VMCA demo. The main thing which I taught was recovery should be at the onset of stall OR loss of directional control whichever comes FIRST. I always found that theoretical knowledge was a key point to completing these maneuvers safely. RIP to the pilots…

If one wants to know how it’s done, the master Bob Hoover did aerobatics on one engine.

Busy trying to conclude my UPRT and get that all important airline job before the window of opportunity closes. This resonates very well with me. Condolences to the bereaved.

Juan, 2 years ago you posted a King Air skydiver stall spin caught on video. Great video. Shows the partial snap roll you are talking about on camera. You might want to link it here. I also thought that with military or college aviation training you could apply to airlines with 750 hours or 1,000 hours respectively. Is this correct? How many hours do you need to fly fighters or right seat transport aircraft in the Air Force? I will note that since the crash that caused this knee jerk reaction (Colgan?) U.S. airline safety has improved. Always thought anti yaw engine power would help, did not realize power flattened spins.

What an excellent presentation and explanation, Juan! Until now I've wondered why flat spins aren't recoverable by adding power, and you've explained it. You channel is a real treasure trove of knowledge, experience and aviation wisdom. So happy to be a subscriber. Many thanks!

Juan, you are a absolute god sent to this community. Keep it up!

Juan, great analysis and advice for MEI’s. I did multi engine instruction in PA-44’s and BE-76’s…42 years ago as an MEI. Those airplanes have counter rotating props which eliminate the critical engine, but still you needed to be careful doing VMCA demos. Blocking the rudder is a great solution. Thank you. All MEI’s need to hear this. Also, we need more spin training. So many new pilots are terrified of practicing spins.

A picture is worth a thousand words and a video has to be worth a million. Thanks Juan for the video. Some of us are visual learners and emotions combined with a person speaking brings dry text instructions to life.

Also, aileron down at stall causes that side to stall much sooner than the up aileron side, inviting a spin.

My MEL cfi was a Vietnam era naval pilot. I am so thankful I had him guide and teach me what you just explained.

Nice summation. In all my years of flying (in the USAF, in the Tweet with students, in the T-38, the U-2, airlines) my ATP training in a Duchess was, in my opinion, the most hazardous flying I’ve ever done. There’s so little margin in a light twin and you’re so close to the ground, there’s little room for error. Yes, yes, yes, instructors guard the controls and be ready for anything.

11:40... normal prop rotation, spinning to the RIGHT... added power pushes the nose down... upright to the left, added power pulls the nose up... the effect of added power is due to the gyroscopics...

Juan thank you. Ok I ain’t a pilot and I have never taken a lesson but I watch your show religiously. This video well I don’t get any of it but I can say this. Without doubt everybody should pay heed to this man’s insight and comments on this issue. I know when Juan is serious and is asking everyone to sit and listen and this is that video. All you pilots out there who are learning and instructing well sit back in your chair for ten minutes and digest every word and insight this man is giving you. It will save your life. Peace.

I am not a pilot, have experienced a single engine spin as a passenger. Your explanation and video made into layman’s terms made it crystal clear why, how and what to do. Awesome!

I owned a 1958 as a time builder and it is a wonderful and docile aircraft.

I learned to fly in Rhodesia in the 70’s. Single engine spin recovery was a big part of my training. I was told to go to the training area, D4 and practice solo spins and recovery time and time again. When I received my FAA license, I was surprised to learn that this maneuver is not taught in the PPL curriculum. I believe that all pilots should learn spin recovery. Edit: I learned to fly on a PA28-140.

Juan, you are very gifted with your knowledge and understanding of the current situation…I had 10 years in the Air Force and 32 with United..I was very fortunate. However, I had to spend 17 years 17 years, I repeat myself, 17 years as a Flight engineer… No regrets there, it was 17 years of watching other people flying… The good and the bad. The point is that there was a marked difference in the copilots I observed …you might say half were ex military, and half were FNG’s who had only a couple of hundred hours and an instrument rating… I will say that the better pilots, in my opinion, were the low time kids. Also, there’s my understanding that Lufthansa train their pilots in Arizona from the start… In my opinion, there is never been a problem. Thanks for all you do.😅

The crashes are keeping you busy, Juan :( Thanks for all that you do.

Decades ago, the Aviation Consumer publication ran a story on light twins and stall spin. IIRC, in the PA-30 and Baron you had about 3 or 4 seconds to initiate the right moves in the event of a critical engine failure during climb out.

Amazing video! 1. As an 1150 hour pilot who's career was killed by the 1500 hour rule. Thank you so much for what you said. I'm still bitter all these years later. 2. Your comment about the instructor needing to be on the rudder is spot on! I almost was in a similar fate in a Travel-Air when my student took his foot off the rudder to stretch it 10mph from Vmc. That's the only time I have ever yelled at a student. Scared me to death. RIP to the pilots. Very sad.

Ailerons Neutral, I can see were this needs to be reflex training. This segment was very educational. Thanks Juan.

Excellent discussion, with extremely clear explanation of the aerodynamics involved! I couldn't agree more. I got my CFI-ME in 1977 and went on to fly DC-3's and 40 years flying airline jets (7 jet type ratings). I have owned a Travel Air like this one, and now a Baron over the last 33 years. CFI's used to have to attend a 3 day FAA Instructor refresher course every 2 years. I remember a video that was shown of a Piper Aztec spin recovery. The airplane was equipped with a drag Chute, and D rings to jettison the door, while the test pilot wore a parachute. After a couple of turns the Aztec was in a flat spin. Shortly, you see the drag chute deploy and the airplane keeps spinning. Off comes the door and you watch the pilot's chute deploy and the Aztec bore a hole in the ground. If you think you are going to recover from a spin in a light twin---think again! I refuse to obtain a BFR in my Baron; I don't want any instructor 'surprises'. I find a single engine airplane for that. I don't believe you should do a VMC demonstration more than once in any light twin! This is like practicing a forced landing in a single where you actually have to land off airport. Let's stop the carnage!

Ron I love your passion to educate and get people learning from these tragic incidents. I'm not an aviator, but my field of emergency medicine / critical care shares very similar challenges of rapidly-evolving high risk situations and behaviour traps. The Dunning-Kruger pitfall of moderate experience producing risky boldness is so dangerous - I spend a lots of time coaching junior clinicians in how to stay in their competence envelope. Love your work - lots of lessons for non-aviation safety.

I appreciate your insights! quit flying after a series of low hour pilots messed up and paid the ultimate price. One was a Vmca-gone-wrong about 10 miles from my house. At nearly 350hrs in helicopters and about 60 hours in fixed wing… it seemed insane to me what dangerous maneuvers low time instructors were expected to teach. My life is worth more than achieving another 1,100 hours of flying risky maneuvers or being pressured to fly in risky conditions, especially in ops that don’t require a SMS! Wonder why there’s a pilot shortage? It’s too risky and too expensive to meet the 1,500 hour minimums to get a safe job. Simple as that

Juan, your analysis and commentary *will* save lives by raising awareness among pilots. What you do on RU-vid is an incredibly important public service. Thank you sir.

Great video Juan. While I 150% agree on the Aviate-Navigate-Communicate, I do believe in some cases where if the pilot can get out over radio in these GA birds, what might be happening, it provides great clues for investigators since the GA birds by and far do not have CVR/FDR data to recover and examine.

This one's a life saver Juan. Thank you for your analysis

Reminds me of Tuco's bathtub scene from The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly -- "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."

I earned my multi in 369BB and walked by it with my wife on the ramp at HSV Sunday night before the accident and said "hey" to old Bravo Bravo. I knew the instructor and flew with him a few times last year. He was a great guy, very smart and very professional. It was heartbreaking to hear a voice I know so well in that situation. I'm approaching 700 hours of flying time and if I've learned anything since getting my PPL it's that the ACS only teaches the bare minimum of skills and information you will need to become a proficient, SAFE pilot. If you're a student pilot and think you'll be done learning when you pass your checkride, there's a pretty good chance you'll end up in one of these videos. I follow Blanco, Gryder, Scott Perdue, Jason Schappert and several others in an effort to understand more and to keep these things in the front of my mind every single time I prepare to fly. If you're going to fly airplanes, you must be commited to continuing education and mastery of the airplanes you fly. These things do not forgive the mistakes, distractions or slight lapses of judgement that we are ALL prone to as human beings. Rest in peace Nikul.

I was close to the the student involved in the Seminole crash in October (we were both classmates and trained alongside each other under the same instructor) and he was under an expedited training regimen, having started twin training only half a year after beginning flying, and so far we still don’t know what caused it, the Preliminary report was overly vague likely because they still don’t know (the school is still banning back seaters since the incident aircraft had someone in the back). I myself am still in training after several years and already past 250 hours with life throwing some monkey wrenches at me (broken legs suck) but also because I am a slow learner. That said I have far more experience than your average student (in fact even many instructors) and I can tell that there are many that despite being more qualified are making critical mistakes or lacking wider knowledge. Many students are being overly pressured to memorize and not understand the material. They’re being taught to pass tests, not fly planes. This isn’t the fault of the school, but because of this new era of pilot shortages and adapting training regimens, they just can’t keep up, and even our maintenance crews are being worked to the bone with the current parts shortage that’s hitting piston aircraft particularly hard.

Wow Juan, I feel your frustration with yet another, easily preventable, tragic waste. You hit every bullet point. This video should be mandatory watching for all twin Instructors, pilots and students.

Well said, Juan. You’re going to save some lives with this video.

Every low hour twin pilot should watch this video as many times as it takes to see the light. You should do a video of stall recovery in a twin with the differences between a stall with each engine out. It is crazy to keep losing lives this way. You are doing great work Juan. Keep it up.

Another great job explaining spins and how to get out of them. Thank you Juan!

Good grief, how many multi-engine CFI are test pilots? Close to zero, I would imagine. Thanks, Juan! Excellent video!

The physics jargon for what you're describing at 3:40 is "angular momentum".

Juan, I still remember the T-37 spin recovery almost 48 years later..... Throttles - Idle Rudder and Ailerons - Neutral Stick - Abruptly Full Aft and Hold Rudder - Abruptly apply Full Rudder Opposite the Direction of the Spin and Hold One Turn After Applying Opposite Rudder - Stick Abruptly Full Forward Controls Neutral and recover from the Dive

In a fighter jet deploying the drag chute is sometimes used for spin recovery. The force of the drag chute pulls the tail in the opposite direction of the spin and tends to raise the tail and lower thee nose. During flight test when a test pilot is evaluating the stall-spin characteristics of a new airplane they will sometimes install a drag chute on an airplane that normally doesn't have one just for safety. Unfortunately, this is not an option on a small, general aviation aircraft.

Sad that this happened again. In my twenties I gave a lot of multi instruction. Fortunately my instructor’s that prepared me for my MEI had a lot of flight time and experience. I am afraid these days the instructor’s instructing new MEI’s don’t have a lot of experience. What Juan is saying is exactly what I was taught in my MEI training, limit the rudder travel, and keep hands on both mixtures (to pull power because the student probably isn’t going to be fast enough with the throttle). I also remember in the pre flight briefing with the student telling them that if you even think you feel a stall buffet to immediately recover from the Vmc demo.

Love your passion Juan and your frustration at the unnecessary losses is palpable. Thank you for the explanation of these types of accidents.

Thank you for reminding me of this. Years ago, going for complex and high performance sign off, I had a HECK of a time talking the instructor into spin training me. I was very glad he did, because I made mistakes the first time out... Recovery can be counter intuitive for a seat of your pants flyer as I was.

I appreciate all the good you do. As a commercial pilot student and aircraft owner, I seek out as much training as possible. I hope more pilots see this video and learn as much as possible.

Great piece Juan. Gut wrenching to hear that poor pilot calling for help. Very very sad.

Very good job of going over this. I am getting more and more irritated at some of these instructors that are pushing time. I had a very good instructor for my multi and we talked about this many times. He did a great job of locking the rudder. Keep up the great work.

Thank you Juan for sharing your experience as well as others to make aviation a safer place. Awareness of the consequences of ignorance in our shared passion for flying keeps us all safer. Keep training and always get better. Thanks again Juan.

Sad accident. I always appreciate your insights and, most importantly, humanity while recapping these accidents.

your expertise/explanations are excellent. Thanks for your channel and your effort to reduce pilot-error mishaps.

Wow - I'm not a pilot but this is fascinating and not just a little terrifying.... Thanks for all the aviation education you provide... sorry it so often has to have accidents as the course work subject matter for the education...😟

Veteran pilot Art Scholl was killed in a movie stunt gone horribly wrong, during the filming of Top Gun , in a Pitts - he got into an unrecoverable inverted flat spin ; there was some speculation that the exterior camera mount on his airplane affected the CG or airflow over the rudder making it useless against the spin.

Thank you Juan for the schooling you provide....... so very valuable!

I fly a B58/G regularly. As nice as it is there are moments in the flight profile that if you lose an engine and are not on your game, the results could be egregious

Great video, your compassion really comes through. Wish we had videos like this when I was learning how to fly

I finished my part 61 PPL back in October and have just now recently started flight training at a part 141 school in Tulsa Oklahoma. I'm 28 years old with about 130 hours, the guy that'll be teaching me instrument training is 21 lol. My instructor at my part 61 school was in his late 60s (had about 15000 hours of experience), and is pretty much a career instructor at this point. I felt he really cared about my training and was focused on making sure I had good ADM skills. I go on my first flight with my new instructor tomorrow. He has no where near the level of experience as did my previous instructor, but I hope he does not cut corners and emphasizes safety in everything we do

I've done VMC demonstrations at 5-6k at various temperatures in my 310 without any issues. The point made about doing a VMC demo when conditions put you near stall speed is a good one. However, besides setting up the plane on single engine, I don't look at the airspeed as much. Instead, I look out the widow for any deviation in the yaw axis. Whether I'm level or doing the VMC demo as soon as the yaw drifts more than a degree or to two it is back to immediate recovery (simultaneously reduce power on both engines nose down). Also, very good advice to MEIs about blocking the use of full rudder as it means the nose will start to drift earlier at a higher airspeed so farther away from stall speed.

I haven't flown as PIC since the 80s, and I don't have a Multi-Engine rating. I was trained in spins and spin recovery back in the mid to late 70s. Based on your information in this video, I would think that if a PIC, i.e., the instructor had sufficient training in spins that he or she would be able to execute a spin recovery properly in a twin. I agree though that the student pilot shouldn't get anywhere near that condition to start with. Unfortunately, most student pilots coming up to that point don't have the experience or the knowledge to be looking at the handbook and understand that altitude and temperature are going to make a big difference in how the airplane is going to handle those conditions at or near stall speed. As always Juan, you pulled this apart. I'm going to have to go back and watch Martin's twin training videos.

Juan, thank you for the emphasis you placed on the lesson you provided us today. Really made us sit up straight and pay attention. You are saving lives with your podcasts!

Such a excellent description of recovery from inadvertently entering a spin in light multi engine aircraft. There is "PARE" Recovery if your not sure of spin recovery: P - Power Idle A - Ailerons Netural R - Rudder Full Opposite Of Rotation E - Elevator Forward Stick