I am so thankful for you making this video. We recently joined a small startup church and after getting involved did we learn that everyone there but us is a Calvinist. It has been really affecting our family as we interact with them outside of church on Sunday. There is a constant focus that constantly has everyone feeling they have to “show works” or they are not part of the elect. The worst part is the sovereignty issue. We constantly hear “ God is Sovereign” which we finally realized that they meant God makes us think, say and act (not just his authority over all). This includes our sin. In the end, it makes God the author of our sin, yet we retain all accountability. There is no doubt these brothers and sisters love the Lord. However, there does appear to be some fundamental differences in how we understand God, his nature, how he works, evangelism, salvation, and ultimately our ability to control our own action - including sin.
Great video. Some of my closest friends are calvinists and we can all still be friends and discuss our view of God-and in doing so actually strengthen each other’s faiths and walks with Christ. Definitely a fitting topic for Strength for Life.
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9) I'm thankful God is longsuffering. Thank you for addressing this topic.
As a Calvinist, I think this video is fair and something we all need to hear. I admit that many (if not most) modern Calvinists are arrogant and unhelpful to the functional ministry of the Church. I appreciate you brother. We must also admit that from John Chrystostom to Adrian Rogers, there are many non-Calvinistic pastors who have done incredible works for God. Btw- Foreknowledge in our economy is an experiential or a dynamic knowledge which would be different than a static foreknowledge. Also, all who are “called” are “justified.” We love him because he first loved us. To the Calvinists- We may describe things a little differently, but salvation is by grace through the gift of faith. Let’s get busy preaching the gospel “for it is the power of God unto salvation”.
I appreciate your response as a self admitted Calvinist. I agree that we need to get busy sharing the gospel. So do you believe anyone hearing the Gospel from you or me CAN believe/receive/trust Jesus as Savior...or only the pre-chosen elect as taught by Augustine & Calvin?
@@mikelyons2831As Jesus said in John 6:44, only those who the Father draws CAN come to Him- [44] No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
This brief but excellent refutation of Calvinism serves as a good introduction to an important topic. I actually read and approved the script prior to its being posted online by Pastor Johnson. It is sure to rile some of the Calvinistic brethren, but for no good reason. If you’re a Calvinist, you shouldn’t be upset about this video because your own doctrine teaches that this video was posted by Pastor Johnson as predetermined and decreed by God in his sovereignty. If you’re a Calvinist, why push back against that? In fact, if you argue with me in an attempt to win me to Calvinism, you betray a subtle denial of your own professed doctrine. You see, since I am not a Calvinist, God (according to Calvinism) must have foreordained that I would not be a Calvinist. So why would you argue with me if God foreordained I would not be a Calvinist? And, if this line of argumentation irritates you, it’s only because it makes Calvinism look ridiculous, which it is. Now, hold on, Calvinist cowboy! Before you blast me, just remember that (according to you) this comment was preordained and decreed by the determinate foreknowledge and will of God in eternity past. Take it up with Him!
"Since I am not a Calvinist, God must have foreordained that I would not be a Calvinist" That seems like a very specific view of Calvinism. This argument only works if you presuppose that 1) you will never become a Calvinist and that no amount of convincing argument or even divine intervention would change that state and 2) Calvinism includes matters outside of salvation. What if God's decree was other people to comment to you, help you grow in understanding and you become a Calvinist? God did command his people to spread his words, so it would be only natural for a Calvinist, who believes they have the correct understanding of God's words, to spread and try to convince others. If the topic regards regeneration, a Calvinist would not expect his word to change your heart but God to. If this understanding of Calvinism was correct, you can just refute Calvinism by pointing out that some latter-believers are not born Christians. Also, if it is not a matter of salvation, the TULIP doesn't say anything about that. Just because God's grace is irresistable doesn't necessitate that God chooses which ice-cream flavor you will like. The TULIP is silent on matter unrelated to salvation. I'm not even sure if I am a Calvinist or not, but this argument seems very flawed. I heard R. C. Sproul and his lecture on Calvinism and recommend you listening to it. It's better for dialogue to represent the other side properly and converse them correctly. Have a wonderful day and God bless you.
@@ryanhwang4143having spent the better part of the last few months listening to R.C. Sproul, I am aghast at his use of manipulation in his “teaching”. Case in point, he taught his students that if they didn’t agree with his definition of “sovereign” they were actually atheists. If they disagreed with his assertion that God causes everything to happen, including all evil, then these students “don’t have a high enough view of God”. If others struggle with the fact that God picks and chooses who goes to hell and heaven then “they need a board over the head”. This isn’t teaching. This is psychological manipulation to make you doubt your belief in God, make you feel ashamed and stupid if you don’t fall in line. One of the reasons it works so well is because his students have enough doubt about their salvation under election and they desperately want to believe they are part of the “elect”.
@@joeblacke99 Hello, I wouldn't agree with Sproul if he said people who don't believe in Calvinism is an atheist. I would highly appreciate if you could give me the link or title of the video, so I could watch it. It would be strange for a reformed theologian to say someone is an atheist (ie. unsaved) due to different theology when they teach salvation given by faith alone. If his point was that rejecting God's soverignty is a argument that have atheistic presuppostions, I could understand his point, but would consider it hyperbolic. He uses a similiar argument when arguing for a Christian understanding of free-will and contrasts a libertarian view/definition of free will, which even most Christians adopt, against his definition. As a side note, I think it would be more helpful to share your opinions or feedbacks on the points I made instead of attacking Sproul. I'm unaware of your arguments, since my only reference to Sproul is from the 20-ish minute lectures on TULIP on youtube. I am not passionate on defending any theologian, let alone Sproul, and merely recommeded his lectures as I found them helpful. I am sorry if this caused you any offense. Going back to Calvinism, it seems like one of your objections against Calvinism is that it makes God arbitrary and "picks and chooses who goes to hell and heaven". I'd like to play the devil's advocate (I'm not a Calvinist yet) and ask: Isn't it similarly arbitrary for God to damn people with eternal punishment when people's conditions i.e) environments like which country they are born to, which family they are born to etc, are so radically different? We're saved by faith, but some people's faith are predicated on works - rejecting falsehood, researching for the truth etc. If reading the Bible or wanting to understand more as a Christian is a good deed Christians ought to do, atheists/non-Christians doing research for the truth is indeed a good work. When free will and our rational mind is the determining factor for faith and is massively impacted by our environment, God seems unequal and arbitraty on what environment he gives us - some are born in a Christian familyhold, exposed to the gospel message and goes to church since birth, while others are born to households that are ignorant or even aggressively opposed to the gospel message. Aside from the seeming injustice of God, would it be okay for converts to say "I saved myself with my free will, since I chose to search for the truth and found Jesus in my journey"? I'm not sure which denomination you are, but it's worse for the RCC/EO since one should choose correct faith/theology/church and do all the works for salvation. In conclusion, while I am a maybe-maybe not Calvinist, I can't dare myself to call God arbitrary or unjust in any sense. I don't know how election works, but I already can't understand why God loves me, a disgusting sinner, to such a degree that he sent his only Son to this world - so he could die for my sins. I just believe his love and is grateful for it. Thank you for reading this long comment and I would greatly appreciate it if you replied. Look forward to it and God bless you.
Amen! Ill be reading those books soon. Thought i was becoming calvinist but struggled with Lordship salvation and other points. So glad to find this podcast!
Often, the primary apologetic stance given when discussing Calvinism is the topic of predestination. Teachers/authors focus on that one thing (in my experience). I appreciate the fact that you pointed out and explained briefly the other pillars of Calvinism: foreknowledge and sovereignty. Helpful content for the church body, displayed a Titus 1:9 mindset.
I am a former Calvinist pastor - and I deeply appreciate the spirit of your presentation. 2:24 Your soteriological "grid" left out one very significant historical position: universal reconciliation. About 15+ years ago I came to embrace this perspective which many simply write off as "obviously" heretical. But there is a substantial Biblical basis for this perspective as there are for others that disagree with it. Robin Parry is (here on RU-vid) one of the most able defenders of this ancient view predominant among the 6 theological "schools" of the first three centuries of the Church's history (he is featured in the most recent edition of Zondervan's "Four View of Hell"). I have found in it a wonderful reconciliation of the Sovereignty of God and the "free" agency of we who are all made in His image. God's familial love is no longer limited to the elect - and His sovereignty is no longer conceived of as fundamentally determining all events before they occur - especially the horrific and horrifying idea of predestined "reprobation". No - here the fact of God's essence as Love ("God IS Love") is fully embraced and acknowledged - but also His sovereign determination for "the reconciliation of ALL things" (Col.1) is fully embraced as well. One of the most defining moments for me was when I had to face the indisputable fact that the word translated "eternal" (Greek: aeon) in most of our Bibles is by its very definition first and foremost a long period of time - that it is at best an ambiguous term that should never be "simply" (and misleadingly) translated "eternal" - but better, "the age [or world] to come..." Simply look up the definition in any online Bible search engine like BibleHub, etc. Thanks for indulging me this little interjection. Again I thank you for taking a strong but gracious stand against the pernicious (and ironically called) "doctrines of Grace"... Richest Blessings! -wayne
I think that you explained the non calvanistic position very clearly. Additionally if I was in the church that suddenly found their minister was calvanistic then I would either leave or get him removed or agree with him not to push reform theology. Steve Lawson has recently had to stand down.I think its good to pray for him and his family. But I'm delighted that he is not going to be pushing his reform theology and Lordship salvation. I would not go to a calvanistic church as a matter of choice.
Amen Pastor ! This message on Calvinism Is interesting. I just don’t understand how people can misinterpret the bible like that and twist the meaning of words around. It sure can be confusing.
I would encourage you to at least get a fuller understanding of what is being taught by the Reformed brothers. Read the 1689 Baptist confession of faith would be a good place to begin.
Excellent title for your video. I don't like seeing or hearing followers of Jesus get in the mud when talking about the minutia of Christian ideology. It's not helpful. I do enjoy learning things about my personal relationship with Christ from more knowledgeable people. The title of you video attracted me because I want to learn more about the bible and it's various interpretations. FYI.... I abandoned the concept of predestination decades ago. God didn't create robots. How does a Calvinist explain evil then??? God "knew" Lucifer, the morning star, would rebel??? FYI... It makes my brain hurt thinking about that conundrum.... lol.
Amazing delivery of helpful information! Your point about Peter and the denial of Jesus clearly show the foreknowledge of God. I am so thankful we are volitional creation. My ability to accept Christ's gift of salvation, flee temptation, and go soul winning all give me opportunity to glorify my Lord. I praise the Lord for what he has done through you and this ministry.
It shouldn't be an issue of whether some doctrine is Calvinist but whether it is Biblical, and it is what the Bible, rightly divided, teaches. When Calvinism is wrong, it is because it disagrees with scripture. The same is true for every theological system. "What saith the scriptures"
I like your spirit brother! You have given some proof texts for study , so could you also give the rebuttals and explanations of the same passages from a confessional reformed perspective as well ?
I also read a book by RC Sproul “chosen by God “ that book has made me question the Arminian perspective a good bit most specifically the concept of Regeneration preceding faith , that seems to be a biblical principle.
I was told by a pastor that I was "born again" because I had desire to do good according to the Bible's definitions of good. According to that particular pastor I was not reborn and accepted into God's family through faith in Jesus Christ according to John 1:12. He was assuming that I was already "born again" apart from faith in Christ. Do you still think that Calvinists are definitely legit Christians?
I'm a Calvinist, and I have to say I have never spoken to another Calvinist "in the wild" who believes that God enforces Determinism onto us. I'm not doubting some folks believe that because... well, people believe all kinds of things. It's just weird to me, hearing that some think we believe we're just God's sock puppets with no free will. The call to salvation by grace through faith is "irresistible" because once the scales have fallen from your eyes no one would choose Hell instead. It's a wake-up call more than a fiat; one that no sane person would ignore. Anyway, I appreciate much of what you said here, because this really is not a salvific issue: if predestination is true, it doesn't matter whether you believe you are elect or not - you are if your faith is genuine. And if it's not true, then it doesn't matter if you believe you are elect because you will be saved regardless if your faith is genuine.
Thanks for the gracious attitude towards us Reformed folks. However, brushing off our view as "hogwash" isn't very gracious. Even if you disagree with us, our beliefs are rooted in what we believe scripture to be saying. Simply saying that "nowhere in scripture is belief predestined" misses what we believe prominent passages are saying. That belief is rooted in how we see people coming to faith (see Acts 13:48 and Acts 16:14). I do believe that often Baptists get a half picture of reformed teaching because they are hearing it from other baptists, and not from those in Reformed churches, such as Presbyterians and the Dutch Reformed. A much better place to see reformed teaching would be from something like Joel Beeke's systematic theology, where a fully developed doctrine of soteriology is developed.
You can find the original link to that chart on medium.com/@michaelrcarino/different-soteriological-systems-within-protestant-evangelical-christianity-bb07127a62a3. SFL's position is Provisionism.
God is sovereign, and man is responsible. Seemingly a paradox on this side of heaven. I lean towards God's decision to save the utterly deprived in order to display his grace.. (as opposed to individuals finding within themselves the ability to regenerate their own souls) call me a calvinist idc.. its what the bible teaches. So many arminians overlook john 3... God saves
After studying Calvin's view of predestination and election, I'm baffled at how unbiblical it is. I do not understand how so many people follow this belief, because it makes God look like a monster.
Predestination and election is found in so many places from the OT to NT. For example, God chose Israel, not Egypt. Christ spoke in parables so some people would not receive His message and be saved. God loved Jacob and hated Essau, by no doing of their own before they were even born. The list goes on, but this is a very concise summary of biblical predestination and election. Notice at the beginning of the letter, the audience is identified as ALL the saints in Ephesus, not just the Jews, not just the Apsotles. Ephesians 1:3-6 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us[b] for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. Notice the will addressed that saves us is God’s, not the will of man.
This was a solid video. As you rightly inferred however , this is a topic that is far larger than can be addressed in a 10 minute video , as the sheer number of RU-vid channels contentending against Calvinism or for it can attest to. I would say that both Calvinism and Arminianism( both of which are unbiblical taken to their extremes) are connected through “dialectical materialism”. This “dialectical materialism” though credited to Karl Marx and Friedrich Engles is actually a creation of Satan , and has been used by him to ultimately bring in his false religious kingdom just as he has used it to bring in his political and economic empire even as we speak. With all that said , if we were to take Calvinism and Arminianism to their extremes we would have to conclude that Calvinism makes God the Author of evil and Arminianism makes you the “finisher” of your Salvation , both of these are heretical as they introduce a different Jesus and a different Gospel ultimately ; so while I have at times said the same thing your pastor said regarding them being a brother or sister in The Lord , I am left with a gnawing feeling in my spirit every time I come away from a discussion with these people as to whether or not that’s true or furthermore even possible given what they believe. You know even reading over what I just wrote smacks of pride on my part as though I have all the answers ( which I most certainly do not) so perhaps the best way to approach this complicated subject is with much love and grace for our fellow man and to understand we all see through a glass darkly. Perhaps if we attempt to lift up the Person of Christ and keep Him the main focus some can be “pulled out of the fire” of “ religion”…
Well stated! I have recently pressed into reformed theology and, from the beginning, disliked the labels. I say that I am not an "ist" or prescribe to any "ism" but that I am called an "ian" and His Word and His grace save and transform me. I pray to continue to only trust in Him!
If your depending on Dave Hunt for your defense against Calvinism, then you haven’t actually studied what the reformed believe. When it came to reformed soteriology, Dave Hunt himself admitted he has no clue.
As someone that is ex-IFB and not a Calvinist, but appreciates much of the theology as biblical, I am sure that Mr. Johnson does his IFB best at debunking Calvinism. But: 1.) You still sing hymns written by Calvinists, and refer to/learn from people like Spurgeon, Edwards, etc. etc. that were godly men, and Calvinists. That is a double-standard and hypocrisy (and a common IFB one at that). Further, you think their faith is "hogwash"? If you really did, you would throw your hymn books and books away... 2.) Your view of God's sovereignty is weak. Your god is a pathetic one. You have literally said, "If you definition of God's sovereignty includes God getting everything He wants, then you don't have a biblical definition of God's Sovereignty." Then, you quote I Tim 2:3-6; II Pet 3:9 as your "proof texts". In this you err, and greatly. I Tim 2:3-6, in context, speaks of God wanting all TYPES of people to be saved: the powerful and weak, rich and poor. That is the true interpretation. It is NOT saying, "God wants everyone that has ever lived to be saved." You are interpreting Scripture poorly, as the IFB do. Further, II Pet 3, in context, is not speaking of God wanting everyone to be saved. In context, it is speaking of Christ completing His flock before He comes in the Rapture. Again, you err. 3.) Election is a biblical concept, as is foreknowledge. Does God elect according to His foreknowledge, or does He chose us out of His Sovereign grace, or does He do both? We do not know. But, we see all of it in Scripture. Stop trying to understand things that are unknowable. 4.) I would like to know what you do with Romans 9, where God clear puts forth His Sovereignty. I would also like to know what you do with Abraham. Abraham was not a godly man, when he was called by God and given the covenant. Jacob was not overtly godly either. Isaac made his mistakes, and so didn't many, many men, because we are all sinners! But, God, in His goodness chose Abraham...and that is all we can say. God, in His goodness chose Israel as His chosen people...and that is all we can say. God did these things that do not make sense to us, because He is God. He is the Sovereign Creator, and He does as He wishes. Again, I pity you for following the god that you do. He is some weak thing that has only what power you give Him. The God of the Bible is the One that does whatsoever pleases Him. He is not hindered by you or me. Whatsoever He desires is done! His ways and works are far higher than ours: Isaiah 14:24-27: "The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand: That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders. This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations. For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?" Isaiah 45:5-10: "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it. Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?" Isaiah 55:6-11: "Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." John 10:27-30: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one." I believe the Word speaks for Itself. To the proud and carnal, the doctrines of Election and Sovereignty are ones of great distress, anger and frustration. But, to those that trust in the Lord, by God's grace, they are doctrines of great peace and joy. The godly men that you call their faith "hogwash" all understood that. I challenge you to repent and follow after the God of the Bible today! (I'll wait for you to get offended and shut the comments off again, like you did last time, because you cannot handle the Truth of God's Word)
Hey fluffy nutts, instead of being wrong and spending so much time commenting on the videos my pastor makes, why don’t you make something with your name on it. It can’t be fluffy nuts
@@moxiefluffenutter I acknowledge the time taken to write your comment. This page (SFL) has welcomed comments since posting their first video. All comments are welcomed: comments of agreement, opposition, and questions. Every type of comment has been left here and as a result, we’ve seen some great discussions unfold. However, the change that took place last week that has never been seen on this platform nor will be accepted is the language displayed, not only toward Pastor Johnson, but the aggression and hateful language you have personally aimed toward his wife. But, that was last week. Comments are back on. Let’s move forward toward actual discussions:) For me, I believe the Christ, the Son of God, when He directly said “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16) & also in Romans 10:13 where he is not directly quoted, but the Word of God still says, “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” I know- not a very posh passage to use but one of super significance!! Because, if you and I can agree that (1) Jesus is God and (2) God is truth - then you and I can agree that His words are truth. Therefore, the truth of these two verses are/can forever be a source of hope, peace, and change for anyone who accepts the gift of grace from the almighty Savior, Jesus Christ.
