The Difference Between Calvinists and Arminians 

I don't understand this doctrine and maybe I never will, but I have no doubt that everything that happened in my walk with God was caused by Him. So in the end all the glory is His.

It’s just heArtbreaking how ppl write fellow Christians off, because they’re Calvinist or Arminian, as not being brothers and sisters in Christ.. All I can say is, Arminian preachers and teachers, had me so lost, confused, for many years.. they told me I wasn’t saved because I didn’t do certain things, that I could loose my “free gift of salvation” because I failed God.. added baptism, tongues, works, to the cross.. Then God saved me, I could understand what scripture said, and nothing the Arminian preacher preached, was in there.. I believe God enables us to choose him.. the natural man hates the things of God, and none would choose him..How can a dead man choose to live? Did Lazarus say no LORD, I choose not to “come forth”? Thank God, He enabled me to choose him, and to serve him.. Gave me a heart that loves him, his word, and the desire to do all of the above!! If left in my natural state I would be lost to this day..

Before I became a parent I had a hard time understanding God’s relationship to us... after I became a mother I understand God and His love for us so much more. It also has helped me understand how God can grieve our sins but still love us, convict us but not condemn us, guide us but allow free will, and how He yearns for a relationship with us.

My biggest issue with calvanism generally tends to be it's followers. (And yes, my wording there is intentional). John Piper is an amazing man and though I have theological differences with him I think he is the best preacher we have right now. He is gracious and boldly presents the truth. Other calvanists I talk to seem more interested in spreading Calvanism instead of Christ and are so hard hearted and ungracious with their legalistic approach to Scripture (again, unlike Piper), that is make my spirit grieve greatly to a point where I just can't stay around them. It's like they serve that theology more than Christ Himself and it's terrifying. Again, Piper is a breath of fresh air and the Holy Spirit within him encourages and convicts often when he preaches... and often times it's his mature and gracious manor in speaking that affects me just as often as the Word He is saying. I truly pray he is blessed with long quality health so he remains on this earth longer to preach His Word all the more.

Pastor Piper has such a calming voice & delivery. That makes it so easy for me to pay attn & absorb his words, even with my ADHD.

I believe that as a fallen human being, born in sin, I did not have a choice but to give my life to Jesus Christ because of hearing the gospel in church this one Sunday, I felt total emptiness I screamed out to the pastor "I need Jesus Christ" everyone went silent, then the pastor called me up and asked me why, so I told everyone what I felt and new deep down in the pit of my stomach. From that day I gave my life to Him who died for my sin to redeem me unto the Father. I cried at that exact point because of the weight that was lifed off of my shoulders.I have done nothing to deserve the grace of a loving God, but because of his grace alone, through my faith alone in Jesus Christ alone I am saved.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves, but it is the gift of God. Not as a result of works so that no one may boast." Let's break this verse down because I think it is a perfect explanation of salvation. First of all, we have been saved by grace. This is the element Calvinism tends to focus on, and I absolutely agree with it. The only reason we are able to be saved in the first place is that God showed us grace. Without that, we are sinners doomed to an eternity in hell. There is no argument there. The question then becomes, "Who receives God's grace and how?" According to the Calvinist view, people are saved only if God chooses to save them. There is no choice in the matter. God selected who He would save, and there is no changing that. The issue with this arises when you consider the fact that there are unsaved people. If God has the power to save anybody He chooses, why doesn't He? Frankly, I see this issue as unresolvable without some acknowledgment of free will. The idea that a perfectly loving God would choose to send countless people to hell with no chance of salvation, only because God Himself chose to cause mankind to sin (which is another necessary conclusion if free will is discounted) is entirely contradictory and is a completely justified reason for someone to turn away from the faith. This is where the second part of the verse comes in. While grace is the only thing that can save us, there is a reason that Paul included this mention of faith. The Arminian view accepts that salvation is only possible because of God's grace; however, they disagree with the notion that God only offers that grace selectively. The offer of grace is a free offer to all. This works with the fact that God is absolutely loving, but the question now is "If grace is freely offered to all, why isn't everybody saved?" The answer is faith. Faith, by necessity, is a choice. Yes, God makes it possible for us to have faith through the work of the Holy Spirit on our hearts, but He does not force us to have faith. As a visualization, imagine you are hanging from the edge of a cliff. You start to slip towards your certain death when a man calls out to you from above and reaches out his hand. If you reach out to grab his hand, you will survive because you made the choice to accept salvation; but if you don't, you will die because you chose to reject the offer. This is obviously not a perfect metaphor, but hopefully, it gets the idea across. The idea of free will is also supported in Genesis. God gave Adam and Eve dominion over the earth. The word dominion means to have sovereignty or control, and control implies the existence of choice. In being given control over the earth, Adam and Eve were given a choice. They could follow God's perfect plan, or they could choose to do things their own way (sin). This idea of free choice makes it possible to accept the existence of sin without being forced to accept the idea that our perfectly good God caused it to exist. It is also for this reason that faith is a necessary part of salvation. We chose to turn from God's will, so we must choose to return to it. "Faith equals repentance plus trust," is how a pastor described faith to me once. God alone offers the grace we need for salvation. No work we can do can ever earn us that grace; it is offered simply because God loves us. In order to receive that grace, we have to acknowledge and repent of our sins, and we have to put our trust in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Without both of these, faith is not genuine, we do not truly accept God's offer of grace, and we remain unsaved. I also want to address the issue of losing one's salvation. Many people have an issue with this, as it leaves room for uncertainty in regards to salvation. I sympathize with these feelings, as for a long period I frequently questioned my own salvation. However, what I would like to remind you of is God's patience and understanding. He is under no misconception that we are a stubborn, forgetful, and sinful people who struggle to do what is good. God has patience with those who seek to do His will and be transformed in the image of Christ. As long as one has that desire, they will not lose their salvation. The only way for one to lose their salvation is, once again, by choice. If someone outright refuses to do the will of God out of the genuine desire of their heart, they will have committed apostasy and lost their salvation. This is the only way to lose salvation. This may sound terrifying to some, and you may even be second-guessing yourself right now, but take heart. If you are worried that you are in danger of committing apostasy then you are not in danger of committing it. If you care about not committing apostasy then you still have the desire to do the will of God, and your salvation is assured. God knows our hearts, and He knows and rewards genuine faith. To summarize, God is the only one who can save us from our sins, but we have to make the choice to return to Him. It is possible to turn away from Him again, but only those who completely reject Him are in danger of losing their salvation. I hope this helps someone to understand the truth about Arminianism and Calvinism. Ultimately, both of these views are not far from the truth. I believe that Arminianism is closer, but both views are often presented in extreme ways that make them appear heretical when neither is entirely irreconcilable. If Calvinism allows you to feel secure in your faith, then I praise God that it does, but I simply ask that you consider that maybe your faith is stronger because you are choosing to put more trust in God.

I had John as a professor in college. Wd loved him and his willingness to be wholly biblical.

Thank you for this beautiful and encouraging message, dear Pastor John. May God bless you and keep you.

Calvinists and Arminians both have bible verses to support their beliefs. It shouldn't matter what view you agree with as long as you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. Updated thoughts 2 years later: this is not a salvation issue, but it is a very important issue. A few issues I have with Calvinism is that it makes God the author of sin and evil, removes human responsibility, and gives the non believer a great excuse for their disbelief. If there is no libertarian free will, how can there be human responsibility? How can a total depraved reprobate human being, predestined to hell to glorify God, be without excuse for their disbelief?

Here is what I think what Piper was trying said: if you trust God's words (scripture) more than one'sl instinctual theology, you are more likely to accept God's sovereignty and His election. If you like the philosophy of men more than God's words and to satisfy your own seemingly rational desire, you are more likely to be a "free-willer". Personally I cried over God's unfathomable grace and love. I decided put my faith in God and his teaching.

I’ve been stuck between both views for years. I grew up in an Arminian church, worried about being left behind, losing my salvation, until in preparing a message I came upon the conclusion that salvation could not be lost. I was reprimanded by my then youth pastor. After this I began to discover the differences in between the two major views, but can’t bring myself to fully accept either one.

Thank you John Piper for sharing this & thank you Desiring God Ministry !!

here's the final word on this matter: Deuteronomy 29:29 The Message God, our God, will take care of the hidden things but the revealed things are our business. It’s up to us and our children to attend to all the terms in this Revelation.

2 peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

His choosing of Jacob over Esau was how he planned to use them in this world but didn't pertain to salvation. How are we to compare someone's eternity to how God deals with individuals in this life?

I am always amazed by calvinists who all get saved by the gospel, the gospel that says for God so loved the world, meaning everyone. It's the gospel they first received, when they got saved. Galatians 1 No Other Gospel 6I am amazed how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel- 7which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse! 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be under a curse! The calvinist doctrine that God doesn't love everyone, makes it impossible to preach the true gospel with an honest heart. Some say I preach the gospel of the bible, but if anyone asks them, did Jesus die for my sins, they can't say yes, honestly. Calvinism without doubt distorts not only the gospel, but makes God look unjust. The gospel is good news, but there is no good news in the calvinist gospel, because Jesus only loves some, not all, so you can't offer it to anyone. If the scripture above doesn't convict you, it should. God knew calvinism would spring up, hence why it's written has a warning, true spirit filled believers who fear God's word, should recognise it's not the gospel they first received, when they got saved.

Romans 9 Paul lays it out the best that he can. But who are you, O man,to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? We cannot understand the depth of the wisdom and glory of God within our human minds. In any attempt to do so and rationalize it to fit our understanding, we risk questioning God's sovereignty. God loves us first. We love because He first loves us. In His foreknowledge before the foundation of the world, God knew who would come to salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. Yes we have our own free will given to us by God, and everyone is ABLE to come to salvation, that does not mean that everyone will. God elected the nation and people of Israel to receive revelation of Him. I can understand why it is difficult to grasp the concept of predestination and I do not agree with some hyper calvinists who would say "welp God will save the elect so I don't need to evangelize" because that's not the answer at all, but to act like God reacts to anything man does is not the nature of God. It's almost a role reversal as Piper says in an attempt to compartmentalize God in order to make us feel as if we can control everything about our lives when day to day I'm presented evidence that I wouldn't want to be in complete control. I'm so thankful for God and His sovereignty and His election. Election is a very sound Biblical doctrine and you cannot disprove it whatsoever because it is consistent throughout Scripture.

The story of the lady was AMAZING! GOD is amazing!

Sometimes I wonder if Jesus looks down at us pitiful souls, and then looks at our Father and says "Look, these Pharisees and Saducees are at it again".

Well I'm being convinced. I can't, and wont, see scriptures and say, NO NO NO that can't mean that! Even though I find myself thinking how can that mean that? Actually I think I am convinced, I just don't know how to ....umm....reconcile all scriptures together. Except to fall back on the mystery of God, which I think is the only place to fall back to! Romans 8:29 "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren."

I have to smile and almost laughed. Every time I hear, brother Piper use that illustration of what he didn’t seminary. It reminds me of what I did once in seminary. When I was confronted with God sovereignty before the foundation of the Earth, and now. And I took my pencil And disagreement with my professor, and threw it on the ground and did the same thing.. I am so thankful that 30 years later God showed me through his word of his sovereignty Romans Romans Romans, how I love this book

I love John Piper and John MacArthur but I will never reconcile “Limited Atonement” with “not willing that any should perish”.

This happens with every single Calvinist I watch. After going on about hoe Calvinism is right for 20 minutes he sneaks in Provisionism/Arminianism in at exactly 20:34 And the text which Calvinists quote like Romans 9, do not deal with the salvation of individuals and James White admitted as much. It seeks to answer the question: Why did the whole of Israel not accept Jesus? This is not a question that relates to salvation, it is a apologetics question which challenges the validity of Jesus Christ as the Messiah, because if he had been the true Messiah the jews felt that all of the jews would have been on board, but they weren't and therefor He must not have been the true Messiah. It deals with the election for purpose of Israel to be the nation through which God will save humanity, and very clearly not the election of individuals.

In an alternate reality, Pastor Piper became a voice actor and scared grown men out of their pants.

What if Arminianism and Calvinism were both unbiblical. Could it be a false dichotomy limits the options of finding the truth? For example: a Ferrari car just pass by. The two onlookers started debating from their car orientation perspective based on the color, the sound, the swiftness that the car that just passed was a Lamborghini or a Porsche. Clearly BOTH were wrong.

It has been written elsewhere he desires all to be saved, whosoever believes, he wants all to be saved. I can't see how you can ignore this. It is plainly written. Comments welcome.

The issue with Calvinism is it will have you believe that God wrote a book ("the Lamb's Book of Life") with a whole lot of names in it, of people who are not going to live, whose names are progressively being removed from the book. Yes, I agree, it is mysterious in the extreme as to why God would do such a thing, particularly before saying that the lamb who was slain from before the foundations of the world, that lamb takes away the sin of the world, and that "whosoever will, may come". In other words, the Word says that keeping the salvation (not obtaining, which is impossible, but keeping what has already been given) that the Lamb has provided, is a matter of the human and individual WILL. God's will, according to scripture, is that NONE will perish, i.e. that "the world" would be saved, and hence God made provision of salvation for "the world". So it is mysterious in the extreme as to why anyone would say that Calvinist's have the exegesis on their side.

So I just want to be clear, God could save people, He is the only one who could, He simply just chooses not to save them. He wants them to be tortured. I know the text seems to say that (Romans 9), but then how do we square that with Paul's prayer for people to be saved, for boldness, for open doors, who cares? Why would he care? Why pray, does it make a difference? If God wants people tortured they get tortured, if God wants them saved they get saved. This is the problem. Why does Paul write things that seem to totally contradict the idea "God wants some people tortured." Paul says: "I become all things to all people that I by all means save some." Does he really believe that there is any free choice, that prayer and our actions make a difference, does he believe that seeking to be Christ to others somehow mistakenly believing that it is already rigged? Or are you saying the game isn't rigged? That our prayers, our actions, our appeal make any difference and yet it doesn't really because none of it matters? Because if all is predestined, why pray? If I pray for people in my community does it make any difference? It isn't just that they don't have a choice, we have no impact do we? You mentioned preaching the gospel, why? If God wants them saved they are going to be saved whether they hear it or not right? You say it is good news for hopeless people, but only if they win the God lottery right? If they win the torture lottery then too bad. If someone knows can you tell me where John addresses this? The question: How do you know you will be a believer tomorrow morning? If you are chosen then it is God, if you are to be roasted it is God. At the core: It is simply untrue "God wills none perish" if Calvinism is true He wishes a bunch perish yes?

Calvinism does not have as much biblical support as Arminianism. Calvinists narrowly rely mostly on books of John and Paul's for support, and much are due to that Calvinists read the Scriptures out of context. Calvinism has also been used by Satan significantly, resulting in two very sad extremes: 1. people believing "once saved always saved" and continue living in sin without repentance, and 2. religious superiority that transformed into racial superiority which caused Apartheid in South Africa and slavery defense in North America. Please John Piper study your history and explain these two sinful realities from Calvinism, you can learn a lot from Jacob Prasch and David Pawson.

Wow, I’m really struggling through this. In a way I’m happy as my salvation is starting to feel more secure, but I’m possibly even more disturbed by one of my nagging thoughts. That being, why the punishment for non believers is SO severe. Like John I had an altercation with one of my Bible college professors when I expressed my discomfort regarding people being destined to hell.

It's so difficult to talk to a Calvinist because instead realizing that someone else might understand more than them, they say it's a mystery and no one can understand.

Read "What Love is This" by Dave Hunt, published by The Berean Call in 2004. It is a definitive rendering of the Calvinist position and will provide the necessary background and the Biblical justification that anyone who is serious about this matter needs to understand in order to make an informed decision.

Thank you Damon for your response to my 2017 entry regarding Primitive Baptists. Now, after 5 more years of Spirit led study of God's inexhaustible word, by His grace, I continue to grow spiritually; a follower of Jesus, God the Son, and no other. God help all who perhaps have followed and defended a mere man's doctrine. Further study of the birth of Esau and Jacob and their narratives as revealed by God is worth it. Context matters. God never changes. JESUS SAVES.....whosoever believes Him!

Really puts things into perspective. Praise God for have mercy on us all. To God be the Glory forever!

Was a blind proud arminian but God in his goodness mold me to a grateful calvinist to God's mercy he made me appreciate his grace

No condition? 20:23 - "If you would just believe, if you would come, He would have you. Trust Him." So I must choose to believe and choose to come? If I'm predestined to be saved then aren't going to believe either way? Is that a choice?

As someone who leans Arminian, I definitely would agree that "it doesn't make sense" isn't an adequate argument(though not without some value). The suggestion that exegesis is strictly behind Calvinism does not sit with me, however. Largely, my belief that the word did not bring me to calvinism came naturally having read it, while I was shocked the first time my father suggested otherwise when we were reading the same passage. I would hardly simplify these differences to "this side believes the Bible, this side doesn't listen to it". There are really good videos pointing out the biblical reading that sees the same verses differently, so I won't break it down but suggest people listen to several speakers on the other side of the argument(which is what I'm doing by listening to this video, by the way-so I'm not asking anyone to do something I wouldn't).

Why is it so hard to just believe that God chose His elect for a specific purpose(like he chose the prophets & disciples) but also give the opportunity for anyone outside of the elect to be saved? Idk why Calvinist make it so unbelievably difficult.

I Love this guy...!... I wish the whole believing nation could see God's word like this..!..

Pastor John, What a wonderful story about the woman who lost her husband. She wanted the Rock, the Word of God. At 18 years of age, Dominic Aquila led me into the reformed faith, and he didn't even know he was doing it. That was in 1972, and freedom literally burst into a stilted Southern Baptist heart. I didn't fight it...... I did not argue with God, I ran to it with all my heart!!! BECAUSE I found out that God, Himself, wanted me!!!

My question is why we follow a philosophical perspective from a guy who was born in the 16th century? The father told us all about himself before this guy was born.

In Jeremiah 19:5 God says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it."

No...I reject Calvinism for many reasons. One is that if man has no free will, he is nothing more than a puppet or robot with no true identity. We are all just pawns in a game. Period. That’s what Calvinism equates to. It would also mean that you would have to deny 1/4 of the scriptures and explain to me why God, Jesus Christ, and the apostles warned believers about not falling into the entrapment of the evil one. Why warn if everything is predestined? Not to mention, i take very seriously the warning God gave in revelation not to add or take away to the Holy Word of God. And naming an ideology after a man who had no hand in writing scripture, Mr Calvin, has me second guessing his followers. There is no solid foundation in this belief system.

These calvanist are so confused trying to force their doctrinal system onto scripture, they scratch their heads and submit to mystery because of all the contradictions in calvanism. Pious confusion is absolutely the worst confusion....

God led me to Calvinism. And I believe He did so because he knew I couldn’t believe under the Arminianistic beliefs I was raised under. Free will was too much for me to handle. I would literally wake up each morning unsure of my salvation. It would torment me all day. It still does. I have to immerse my mind in these scriptures in order to actually “believe.” Thank you John Piper for this message. I can’t believe it has taken this long for me to discover you on YT.

When Piper gets to his example about how the doctrine of unconditional election is helpful in evangelism at about the 20 minute mark, it seems like he may be making an unwarranted assumption. He seems to imply that if someone is worried or even convinced that they could not be elect, then they must assume that they are among the elect, and then he encourages this hypothetical individual to place their trust in Christ. I wholeheartedly agree that that is what anyone and everyone who recognizes the weight of their own sin should do (Trust alone in the only One who paid for the sin of the world), but it is precisely what the reprobate in Calvinist Soteriology cannot do.

To All Calvinists, it doesn’t matter if you believe in free will or not. It doesn’t matter if you believe in predestination or not. It doesn’t even really matter if you think you have scriptures to support what you believe or don’t. If the result of your doctrine is that God is an evil, sadistic monster, then there is something wrong with your doctrine. You may think you have scriptures to support Calvinism but it should be apparent that your interpretations of said scriptures are wrong, terribly wrong, and you shouldn’t be working so hard at defending your doctrine. What you should be working hard at is finding a way to interpret those scriptures in such a way that is consistent with the idea that God is a God of love, justice, and yes even wrath, not someone who creates people for his good pleasure and his good pleasure is to see them tormented for ever and ever and ever with no end and no mercy, as if that is somehow what a God of justice and wrath would actually do. If you are not willing to consider that your interpretation of scripture is wrong, you have no business teaching the Word of God to anyone else.

Many are called. Few are chosen .if only few are chosen, who are the many that are called?

I’m crying right now because of the lies and junk theology I was taught for years. Thank you for the truth

So much preaching about Calvinism to the point that people think that the only way to go to heaven is to be a Calvinist. Yes it is true that Calvinist's argument about predistination, election etc. can be found in the bible. But, it is also true and can be found in all throughout the bible that people are choosing and making decisions (moral free will) and, what I have noticed is that calvinist are setting these truths aside, rejecting them because they don't fit it to their system of theology, worst than than, they started to reject people who doesn't agree with them. THE GOSPEL IS ABOUT CHRIST, NOT CALVINISM.

Why does this always come down to Calvinism v Arminianism. Arminians believe you can lose your salvation. I don’t believe Calvinism, that doesn’t make me an Arminian. Even the name makes me laugh. Like I’m following some man made religious theology named after the guy who thought it up

I am Arminian. Every Calvinist preacher I listen to, I have never heard them say that any of their family members were unsaved. So it would seem that whole families are unconditionally elected? Would you struggle with your Calvinistic belief if you had 4 children and only two were saved, or would you say “well God predestined two of my children to be of the elect before the foundation of the world, but two he predestined to eternal damnation.”. Can you honestly say you would be ok with that? I think not.

Why do Calvinists overlook the word "Foreknew"? The destiny God has in store for us is based on His foreknowledge (those He foreknew, He predestined...). That's why Jesus says "Many are called but few are chosen"... because God foreknew who would believe. Also, John Piper says "I have mysteries in my theology". If there are "mysteries" (i.e. things John cannot explain), then why can't he accept (whether or not he can explain it) the fact that the scripture clearly and repeatedly puts forth the existence of God's sovereignty alongside man's responsibility?

For those that need help with Romans 9, here, know this. Romans 9 is Paul using the nation of Israel's own history to show why the Jews are rejecting Jesus as Messiah and how God's word is being fulfilled through the Church. In Romans 9:1-5 Paul’s grieves his people for being the best prepared. In verse 9:3, he compares his kinsmen, biological Israelites, to idolaters who deserve death by the sword. He does this by taking on the role of Moses when he requested God to blot him out too. *Moses and Hebrew idolaters is the first Israelite story Paul flips on its head.* Unbelieving Jews think of themselves like Moses, but Paul is saying their pride in their elect status is an idol. Romans 9:6, Paul distinguishes between Israel of the flesh and Spiritual Israel. What is Israel? God made promises to the northern 10 tribes that have been assimilated or blended with other nations. God fulfills His promises to these nations by bringing in all nations into the Church, Spiritual Israel, and in doing so Israel will be saved (Romans 11:25). By bringing into Spiritual Israel all the peoples of the earth, the Lost Tribes are brought in too and thus the promise made to them is fulfilled. Then in Romans 9:7-9 he tells us that the Jews being unfaithful has not ruined God’s plan, because God chooses His people through faith in Christ, the Seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:16), not according to natural lineage. He illustrated this by comparing unbelieving Israel to Ishmael (a child of works) and the Church to Isaac (a child of faith). The unbelief of Jews did not hinder God’s promises to the prophetic entity Israel because God’s people, the Church or Spiritual Israel, are reckoned by the Spirit and not by the flesh. *This is the second Israelite story Paul flips on its head.* Paul did this same flipping of Israel's beloved narrative in Galatians 4:21-31. Therefore, we should be looking at the other stories in Romans 9 as possible inversions too. The first 18 verses of Romans 9 present 5 ancient Israelite narratives inverted. In Romans 9:9 Paul quotes from Genesis 18:10 and 14 because in this passage, Sarah is doubting God's promise like the Jews doubt Messiah and Paul's message. They think they are faithful like their father Abraham, but Paul says you are doubting God like Sarah! *Doubting Sarah is the third Israelite story Paul flips on its head.* Prideful Jews don't see themselves as doubting God's promise, but they mock Paul from synagogue to synagogue. Then in Romans 9:10-13 Paul says the Jews are acting like Esau selling their birthright for some porridge. Jacob is like the Church who became the greater of two peoples by a blessing that was not earned by works. The Older, Nation of Israel, has served the Younger, the Church, by both bringing forth Messiah to bless all families of the earth (Genesis 12:2-3) and by preserving the oracles of God. God's purpose according to election is to fulfill His promise which He spoke to Abraham. Jesus taught this same angry Older vs. Younger narrative in Luke 15:11-32 where the older brother was angry about the compassion shown his younger brother. Those who have worked longer are also angry in Matthew 20:1-16. Paul emphasized in Romans 9:10-13 that we are members of Spiritual Israel by the grace of God through faith in Christ, not by the works of the Law of Moses. *Jacob and Esau is the fourth Israelite story Paul flips on its head.* In Romans 9:14-18 he reiterates that becoming members of God’s people is by the sheer mercy of God alone, a mercy that is received through the easy yoke of faith, not the striving labor of the Law of Moses. Pharaoh was hardened by God like He is hardening Israel (Romans 11:7). *Moses and Pharaoh is the fifth Israelite story Paul flips on its head.* Romans 9:19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” Israel has resisted God's will repeatedly. Like Paul, Stephen in Acts 7:51 equates the ancient resisting of God's will to his contemporary kinsmen, the Jews. Resisting His will is why God uses Potter/Clay in Jeremiah 18 and Isaiah. The imperfect Clay can spoil or submit in the perfect Potter's hand. Potter/Clay therefore solves the tension between God's sovereignty and man's free will. Experts Potters all agree Clay on the Potter's wheel acts like it has a mind of its own. The Clay is only locked in once it has been hardened. Romans 9:20-21 connects to Jeremiah 18 by the Potter and the Clay Analogy. By alluding to this passage in Jeremiah 18, Paul is telling the unbelieving nation of Israel, whom he is hypothetically debating with, that God has justly hardened Israel and used their sin to glorify His name just like He did with Pharaoh. Israel is guilty for their unbelief and also for their rebellion and persecution of God's elect people, the Body of Christ. The fact that God's plan is not harmed by them does nothing to lessen their guilt. In Romans 9:22-24 he points out that the unbelieving Jews, who make up the large part of the nation of Israel at that time, have been formed into vessels of wrath. And the remnant of Jewish believers along with the Gentle believers are vessels of mercy. This second group makes up the Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 9:22b is often mistranslated in a way that the sovereignty of God is twisted beyond how it is described in the Old Testament. There's a free online Harvard Theological Review article that uses the Septuagint to present a more correct translation of 9:22b, "Vessels of Wrath and God’s Pathos: Potter/Clay Imagery in Rom 9:20-23" Paul proves His point by referencing prophecies in 9:25-29. A remnant of believers out of Israel are saved. Paul has used beloved narratives of Genesis, Exodus, and the Prophets to prove his point. Unfortunately, many Calvinist exegesis stop at verse 24 because the beloved doctrine of Unconditional Election is harder to infer by Paul's quoting of the Prophets. Paul brings his whole argument of nation of Israel vs. nation of Spiritual Israel into focus in 9:30-10:4. The Church obtains righteousness by faith, but the Jews thought righteousness was by Works of the Law and their lineage. Paul has inverted 5 Israelite narratives and then proceeded to reinforce his argument through the prophets and brought everything into focus in 9:30-10:4.

Revelation 22:17 says, “Whosoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.” Calvinism, however says it actually means: The ones I (God) chose, will take of the water of life. John 3:16 says, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” Calvinism, however says this verse actually means: For God so loved the ones He chose, that He gave His only begotten Son, that those He chose WILL have everlasting life. Joshua 24:15 says, “…choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve…But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” Calvinism, however says this verse actually means: There is no choice, rather, God will decide whether or not one will serve the Lord. 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.” Calvinism, however, says this verse actually means: The Lord is not willing that any of the ones He has chosen should perish, but that all of the ones He has chosen should come to repentance. Matthew6:8-10 says, “…therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done.” This is a prayer. If God’s will was already being done as per Calvinism, then why do we need to pray that it will happen? Hebrews 3:12-14 says, “Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end…” This is a call to not harden our hearts and depart from the living God, and to hold our confidence in Christ steadfast until the end. According to Calvinism, we can’t make that decision; God has already decided. John 1:29 says, “The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” Calvinism, however says this verse actually means: The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the few that God has chosen. 1st Timothy 1:15 says, “This is a faithful saying …that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners…” Calvinism, however says this verse actually means: Jesus came into the world to save (ONLY) the sinners God has already chosen. 1ST John 19 says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” Calvinism says, this verse really means, the ones He has chosen WILL confess their sins, and He is faithful and just to forgive them their sins and to cleanse them from all unrighteousness. Calvinism calls confession a synergistic work; meaning a work of faith added to what God has already done. Also, there is no IF in Calvinism. Revelation 3:20 says, “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.” Calvinism says, this verse really means, “…when the one I have chosen hears my voice, he will open the door…” Luke 13:3 says, “…unless you repent, you too will all perish.” It doesn’t say, “it doesn’t matter if you repent UNLESS I have already chosen you.”

My beloved brother and pastor John Piper, I love your way of speaking. God bless you more and more to glorify Him forever. Amen

Utter non-sense. The reason you got mysteries because you cannot fit your paradigm in scriptures.

One thing I am convinced and sure, that every time I do good things for the glory of God and to advance His Kingdom it is because of Christ, it is Christ that is in me. All glory to Him! While in the other hand, every time I commit a sin, it is me and me alone, that is my flesh and my weaknesses and that reminds me of my great need, that is Jesus Christ! O I need Christ every day until I die and go home with Him!

Calvinism, like so many isms, is extra- Biblical (that is to say outside of the bible). I believe it is a pernicious doctrine which robs Christians of their joy, their zeal for mission, and their pity for lost souls. The fruit of Calvinism is division in churches unwarranted pride in its adherents, and a lost sense of hope in Christ as redeemer.

It’s real simple Brothers & Sisters. Jesus tells us that “ no one can come to Me unless the Father draws them. “ Our mighty God knows all hearts, He knew You Before Creation & He knew Then who were the “elect” & who would Reject Him. He’s Perfect, Righteous, & All Knowing and no human being can hide their heart from God. Amen. 🙏

Note to Calvinist and Arminians: You people are not the only schools of thought in town.

2:36 greed that why it is so many! Everyone wants to be Batman in the movie no one wants to be Robin, everyone wants to be an apostle or pastor.

AF: As a Calvinist, I realized I had to believe the following about hell. Before the world existed, God decided to create a world in which the majority of humans were ordained to suffer eternal punishment in hell because, ultimately, God wanted them to so he could glorify himself in their damnation. Their damnation was God’s intention. This gets explained via a complex causal web, but that’s the inescapable conclusion at the bottom of Calvinism. All doctrines of hell are difficult, but the Calvinist doctrine presented me with a God so (seemingly) cold and morally ambiguous that I despaired of how I could know and relate to such a God. If the God who could die for sinners could also create sinners in order to damn them, then the universe was an incoherent place ruled by an enigmatic deity of arbitrary, raw power. It is certainly within God’s rights to do such a thing, but if it’s within God’s heart then we’re all in big trouble.

He acts like this is a verse but he is a liar or is ignorant on this verse at the beginning. Comment on this I want to know

If I were to sum up the sovereignty of God as king; as I see in the Bible, into a philosophical truth statement. One that I believe challenges the thoughts on the “Free Will” of man; and instead exalts the sovereign decree of God, as the ultimate free being! Well, this is it. “Space-time! (Past, present, future.) Along with all “creation”, isn't some self-existing free flowing entity. But rather, events, wholly dependent on the sovereign decree of the Triune God. According to His holy divine will and purpose! To the praise of His glorious attributes and the exaltation of the gospel.” That's my Calvinism...

So glad this is still posted! I cannot escape this truth! But l see the free will choice argument also!

How can u teach our Gospel the way men choose to interpret it? The word of God is very clear. U r confusing a lot of people leading them not to be saved! U don't even know if u r saved if u believe this nonsense!!!

So God made people to go to hell is what your saying? I thought Jesus came to save all? So if others are predestined to heaven than how can those who weren't choose?

The real difference is that Calvinists read the Bible as written, Arminians read it as they wish it were written.

Quote JOHN PIPER "God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes-as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem-God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child . . . Quote to JOHN PIPER from the Word of God! I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel- 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse! Galatians 1:6-9 Truth in Love

John Calvin was highly influenced by Augustine.

Romans 9-11 has a very happy ending: "God has consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on all. … From Him, and through Him and to Him are all things." (Romans 11:32,36a)

Why not look for one second at Calvin's fruit( the man you will defend, and worship the Lord of glory under his name),,, and that of Arminius, not that Arminius was right on all things. He was a theologian spotless in his generation, even by the account of his Calvinistic enemies. He was mild tempered and known worldwide as someone who treated all with respect. Johan Calvin was more a militant politician,, than a theologian, having absolutely no qualms about burning ALL TYPES OF PEOPLE at the stake. Having housewives beheaded for wrong hair styles. His evil actions are recorded by himself, not in deep sorrow and repentance before a Holy God, no no no,, he was so proud of them till the day he died.. Boasting about trapping his friend in Geneva, so as to burn him with his book clutched to his chest,,, not that he had a time of madness, but that his heart was set on this, and filled with gleeful adrenalin at the murdering of his brothers and sisters. His deterministic world view, in removing will from both God and man, or reducing it to strange interpretations of weird levels of will, and the accusation from his Father Augustine the gnostic monk and developer of almost every single Catholic doctrine,, that God was skew and contained both good and evil,, was something he stood on firmly. ( Calvin said he could not talk of God without referring to Augustine, Sola Augustine) He mocked those who tried to get away from the idea that God was the beginner and author of evil from his nature. Denying the words of Jesus that Satan was the author and Father of lies.. YOU WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS.. Please consider the proper gospel.. If you have not responded with your heart to the all sufficient gospel, receiving it freely without force, and so becoming chosen, you may not entre. And I may be wrong, but if you preach to others that they cant respond to the gospel,,, but have to wait for an esoteric awakening, or half conscious conversion, if you preach that Jesus did not die for everybody, or love everybody, surely that will be your eternal destiny, as you have blocked the door of salvation for your neighbor, God WILL not let you in without your robe, received and given freely.. You also take away Gods proper interpretation of Election of Israel, the church and Jesus, and the beauty of the portrayal of Gods nature in Romans 7,8 and 9, that we serve a God who will do anything in his power, to bring the gospel to the whole world, and so have mercy on ALL, and the story of his forgiveness to everyone, so that anyone may come...Please remember there is an escape in Jesus, and proper theological interpretation of the bible available freely. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-v2ySC2yfdo8.html

I will say that calvanists often use the same vocabulary as non calvanists, they just use a different dictionary, smh

Calvinism is theology taken from scripture, re-injected back into the Word of God in a wicked way by wicked people. Take words like "Election, Pre-destination, determined" and give them your own definitions, then go back and apply them to God's Word and God's attributes and you will get Calvinism. I am not saying they aren't trying to be biblical, and I am not saying they aren't right about a LOT of stuff, and I am not saying it isn't Biblical, because it is but it's basically a theology that starts with God's Sovereignty and Power mixed with Man's wickedness. You can start anywhere, but what a weird place to start. Why not start with God's Love or God's Creativity? 1 Corinthians 13 also doesn't exist in Calvinism. It's removed from the Bible (lol) Calvinists also have the problem of putting the weakest portions of theology over the best of man's philosophy %100 of the time, since the Bible is better than the imagination of man. The Bible being authoritative is fine... but man's reading of the Bible being authoritative is a bit of a stretch I believe that the Bible is the Word of God, but it's not "perfect" because of the people reading it. It's also not Deity. I have a strict Christ>Bible theology. Sure it's perfect if it's translated perfectly, but a lot of verses are pretty mysterious and people smarter than me are really confused about a lot of stuff. R.C. Sproul used to talk about how stupid he was about EVERYTHING in the Bible, regardless of the fact he was smarter than everyone else reading it. If our smartest people are wrong about their interpretation of scripture, then it's safe to assume that the Bible is filled with "errors" or "half truths", and that's okay. In John 2 19 Jesus Christ talks about how he will "destroy this temple and build it up in 3 days". Contextually, it's clear to %99.9 of people reading it that he will destroy a temple (a building) and build it up in 3 days (he is a carpenter). However, I may take a "Minority" view on a passage like this and say "maybe he is being a smart-ass and is referring to himself, and it's an esoteric thing to say." Amazingly, the %0.1 view was correct in this passage, as the "theologian nerds" made a mistake; God literally died and rose again 3 days later! The Temple was himself, and the building back up was also himself. Interesting. I didn't see that coming. Oh wait, yes I did. This is also the case with the word "Pre-destination". In the Greek pre-destination just means to destinate something before hand. If I want to go to New York next week, I can pre-destine myself to go there today. God pre-destined everyone to Heaven, as it's clearly written in 2 Peter, but Calvinists get around it with word play. What if pre-destine was actually a 150 word definition in God's eyes, not what the original Greek says? What if by Pre-destine God actually loaded a lot of awesome entropy layers of love and creativity into it? Would the Calvinists care? Would the Calvinists think it's possible? An analogy God gave me weeks ago was this A letter comes down from the sky and it says from God "I want you 3 to run to the store and pick up some milk." They have 15 minutes to interpret it John interprets this to mean that we should all get into the car and go to SAFEWAY Amy says that we should drive to LUCKY's (another store) James (a Calvinist) is pissed. In the Greek the word "Run" means "to use one's legs to travel distance". James insists that we should run to the store, not drive. Let me guess, we should also pick up the milk too? Like literally, pick it up? I mean it doesn't say "buy" the milk does it? In reality, God is laughing, as the correct interpretation is this: I want you guys to LOVE each other... and LOVE me... God's interpretation of Scripture is so much better! Notice how God has a really loose view of HIS OWN WORD?? Wow... All of his verses should be viewed in the light of Love and Justice, and not just justice, and not just love. Hell is really bad, but it's not as bad as it should be because of God's mercy MIXED IN with his Justice. When Adam sinned, he should of went to hell, but he was given a promise, and when Lucifer sinned, he should of been immediately punished, but he was given a world to be god over through God's mercy and creativity. God is so merciful, and regardless of man's wicked theology injected into the Bible (Calvinism), God will stay like that. Sure God is anti-evil, but he isn't infinite in his anti-evil the way he is infinite in some of his other attributes. "Free Will" is an ongoing debate, and I take a hard stance that all sides are wrong, but I lean Free Will. Check this out: Right this second, we are in the presence of the Imagination of Jesus Christ. I hope that makes you feel better. Calvinism closes doors that shouldn't be closed in order to protect God's maximums while denying philosophical brilliancies that might be onto something. The God of Calvinism is very literal and very black and white. We know that God isn't that cool because the Bible says the Bible says the Bible says the Bible says John Calvin talked about singular pre-destination theories that will boggle the mind (in the worst ways). They aren't creative and makes this life out to be a Movie that God scripted and is watching and can't/won't change. Human Life is closer to a complex sporting event between God's Justice and God's Mercy where we are the Athletes and he is the coach, fan, referee, and Owner than it is a Calvinistic puppet show with "no maverick molecules". God is a loving, gracious, creative, infinitely awesome meticulous artist, but he isn't a psychotic power hungry egotistical control freak too. Not entirely.

Who gives a crap about the distinction. Neither theology respects the scriptures as their sole authority.

God knew that some people would under no circumstances turn their wicked hearts. He eventually does choose, based on His omniscience to save those whose hearts would respond to His saving grace. He loved Jacob and He hated Essau because Essau had a wicked unrepentive heart out of his own choosing. God does not want anyone to be lost, but He shows grace to those who He knew would respond to His grace. God is omniscient and omnipresent and He can judge fairly and choose fairly. We all fall short of His glory, but only some would allow His grace to enter their hearts when He knocks. He is not unfair, because grace is for everyone, yet not everyone respond to grace equally. We have to pray for the lost for God to increase His grace so that some lost souls can still be saved through our prayers for more grace. They could be pre-destined for Hell, but the prayer of the righteous is powerful and it can make the hardened heart respond to God's grace. The above arguments explains Gods character and our own responsibility to take His word serious and to allow fertile ground be found in us. Our relationship with God is all that counts after we repent: "Not everyone who says Lord-Lord will be saved, but those who do My Will." This implies that only those who take his grace serious enough and produce good fruits and show obedience to His Word can enter heaven. People who are truly concerned about their relationship with Jesus-Christ most likely cannot be lost, because they follow Him in Spirit and in truth.

I used to watch Piper, Washer, MacArthur etc...guess what happened i had for the 1st time unbelief in what Jesus Christ did and said. They have some pretty beautiful sermons, but calvinism is evil and offers no hope that us as believers have in Jesus Christ. Calvin should be ashamed.

They both only have half an understanding of God's ways and God's salvation. Neither are correct, yet neither are completely wrong.

I turned to Jesus in 1989. I was 27 years old. I believed in Jesus since I was a little child. As a child I was sent to catechism at the catholic church. All I remember was the basics of God. The nicene creed, Jesus died for my sins, Rose on the third day, assended into heaven. I believed and knew about the Father and the Son, but the Holy Ghost was a mystery. Around the age of puberty (13) I discovered myself and was introduced to pornograpy. At the same time I made my confirmation at church, the bishop laid his hands on my head to invoke the Holy Spirit to get me saved. After the ceremony I went home to my private room in the basement and opened the pages of my x-rated magazines to fantasize and had no shame or guilt what so ever.. I continued to grow sexully with pornograpy and brought it into my marriage. It lead me to step outside my marriage to commit mortal sin. After making sexual advances to another women God decided to come into my life. When I got into my car to drive home from the other women's house I was overwhelmed with shame and guilt. when I arrived home I told my wife I needed God in my life, so I began to search for God by going to church. I ended up getting a Bible in my hands and began to read it along with the church I was attending. As days went by God sent a "means" into my life that would challenge my faith. The "means" was my father. During a conversation with my dad, (my oppresser) my dad yelled violently at me "to HELL with Jesus" this caused me to rage inside, I saw Jesus as the only hope I had, so with all my might I yelled back at my dad "NO, Not to hell with Jesus"... and "I TURNED" with all my heart to Jesus. I saw the living God with the eyes of my heart ❤. The Hoy Spirit was no longer a mystery. I later learned it was the Holy Spirit that convicted me of my mortal sin, and provided me with the "means" to turn to Jesus. I've learned alot about Christian theology over the past 33 years. And about what is said about salvation from different points of view. As of today I still haven't heard any preacher mention the importance of "turning to Jesus". After 32 years of searching for my "SALVATION EXPERIENCE" in the Bible. I found it in 2021 2nd Corinthians 3:16-17. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. I found my salvation experience. It takes place in the privacy of one's own heart ❤. Turn to Jesus.. 2 Corinthians 3:16-17 A good preacher would be one who assist the Holy Spirit in leading souls to Christ as his primary objective. This scripture is huge. I hear too much devisive preaching today, how sad. Note: the scholfield study Bible doesn't make any comment on 2nd Corinthians 3:16-17. Go figure. I wonder why? Check your local church ⛪ web site and see if the preacher teaches anything on 2nd Corinthians 3:16-17.

PLEASE SIR SHOW ME A VERSE WHERE GOD CHOOSES PEOPLE TO GO TO HELL.

Jesus never tought anithing what Calvivnists preach. Secondly there is no word 'prededstination' in the Bible it Greek it says 'predetaermination'. Predestination is Doom.

Love it!!

He's a good brother . . . compassionate, kind. And yet, he does not "sacrifice" Truth upon the "altar" of Peace. John would surely say "Peace, if Possible, but Truth at All Costs!"

True, I sinned too much still I was elected, but I was happy to be saved because I had hope I will be one day I spent 10 years of my life looking for God and I did many sins during the search. Thank you Jesus

Since in the beginning the devil is trying to separate man from God, and man to other man. Thank you for your sermon. We are all the byproducts of the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The irony of Calvinism, is that in seeking to maximise God's Glory by its 'overkill' view of human inability and depravity, it actually depreciates it. Yes without God we cannot know God. God in Christ did what we could never have done, and without His grace we would all die in our sin. But the 'ins and outs' of how the Lord initially and undeniably reveals Himself to us within the personal story of our individual lives (often through no effort of our own), differs from person to person, and ultimately remains a mystery: an unresolved tension between Divine Sovereignty and human free will within a coplex universe. But faith comes by hearing... and hearing by the word of God. What is clear, is that God does not unilaterally and arbitrarily choose some to heaven... and some to hell. We are depraved... But not totally (we bare His Image) Our election is conditional (upon our response of trust 'In Christ') Christ died for all equally (He represented all of humanity) We may resist His grace (even almost irrisistablly powerful grace) We must persevere to the end (Salvation is not a 'thing'... But a Person) Though the godly use of our will and our constant choice to repent (as believers inspired and enabled by the constant influence of Divine Grace of course), we clearly have 'a part' to play on our journey of salvation. This 'cooperation' (Gk: synergeia) is as clear a teaching of Paul's as any other, and actually brings maximum joy to the heart of our Creator - In Who's Image we are made. This cooperation also being clear in both the entirity of Scripture, and in our daily experience of faith. We are not saved / justified by the works of the Law. Neither by our own good works outside of the pure Gift of His Grace. But we are not "justified by faith alone" (James 2:24). We travel on the path of righteousness by the outworking of our faith (sourced in the faithfulness of Christ) - through love. We work out what He works in, and in so doing, we do not "drift" and "ignore" our great salvation - Christ our true life - in Whom we are to be "found". God is our 'prize' ! We are saved by grace, through faith, in Christ, and are "created to do good works which God prepared in advance for us to walk in". We will all be judged according to our works because what we do with our minds is what we end up doing with our bodies (we are not 'dualists' - we are soul and body united). What we DO (or not) with what He has DONE (the finished work) - how we cooperated (or not) with His Spirit, will be clearly shown and known on that day. What did we really want ? How did we treat His gracious treasure ? He alone gives us the desire for Himself ! But it is possible to lose it. "Not everyone who says to Me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the Kingdom... but only those who do the will of my Father in heaven". God does not 'force', He inspires and draws and guides us. To all who receive Him, to those who believe in His name, He gives power / the right to become sons of God, and from that point on, He (apart from Whom we can do nothing of any eternal worth) continues to give us His power as we "Partake of the divine nature". "For those who are led by the Spirit are sons of God" "Do not be deceived; God cannot be mocked; a man reaps what he sows: the one who seeks to please the flesh, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who seeks to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life" "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live" "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life" "IF you remain in Me, and I in you" "IF My word abides in you" "IF you eat My flesh and drink My blood" "IF you continue in your faith... not moved from the hope held out in the Gospel" And so, as obedient children who are in the process of learning and growing up into Him Who is our Salvation, WE "choose life"; WE "work out our salvation with fear and trembling"; WE "build ourselves up in our most holy faith" and "offer our bodies as a living sacrifice" IN RESPONSE TO THE ONE WHO FIRST LOVED US. (we cooperate) "for it is God Who works in us - to will and to do, according to His purpose" "as we wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring us to eternal life" We must "abide". Simply keep the connection. Trust and obey. We are not eternally secure, untill we are securely in eternity Call and response... Call and response... Call and response...

As with most systems, they are rooted in actual scriptures. The problem is not the scriptures but rather the mixing of eisegesis with exegesis. The other problem with adopting systems is the tendency of human nature to defend the entire system at the cost of eisegesis of part. Election and free will are not mutually exclusive terms and both are biblical.

Also if this theology is true, then every comment every decision every word, has been decided ahead of time. And we have zero control. We are merely experiencing what we are allowed to experience whether good or bad, and we can only glorify Him as much as He wants us to glorify Him! Do we have any free will at all? Or did God write all my words just now?? Did I? Or did John?

Mystery: We are created by God to have free will to obey him or not, accept his Grace or not. Why do some people not choose God? It's a mystery. But eventually every knee will bow. Calvinist: *turns head away, holds up hand* Mystery: God is a tyrant who creates good and bad robots, then gets angry and destroys the bad robots. How can this be? It's a mystery! But God is good. Calvinist: "Tell me more..."

Where’s the Hope in Calvinism

An honest question coming from someone who is neither Calvinist nor Arminiast (Eastern Orthodox actually, so bear with me and forgive me in advance): how does Pastor Piper have assurance that he is not ever "rising above God's Word" (8:20)? I mean, how can he be 100% sure that he is not adding anything to the text apart from the stirrings or confirmation of his own conscience? Who can confirm it, if the highest authority is "the Bible", which truly is God's Word, no doubt, but which Piper is encountering- and let's face it- interpreting individually? The scripture speaks to us, no doubt. The Holy Spirit is active in us as one Body, the Church, but plenty of well-intentioned people cleaning to be speaking under the guidance of the Holy Spirit have said the same sort of thing and still taught things that fell short in the test of time and according to the test of "small-o orthodoxy". I appreciate his pathos and his deep desire to preach God's Word and to share the Gospel, even if I definitely do not share his convictions of a Calvinistic framework of reality. But there is something intrinsically (forgive me!) "Pope-like" about someone essentially trying to convince his listeners that he is correct simply because of his declaration that he won't "rise above God's Word". I hope that this doesn't sound insulting. Am I missing something? Is there more to his declaration than this? I've been on a bit of a kick lately, watching videos of Calvinist / Reformed theologians talk about Calvinistic and Reformed theology lately, just trying to unravel the [massive] differences that exist between the Eastern Orthodox understanding of salvation, the role of Creation in God's salvific work, where choice and will come into play within Christ's saving work on the Cross,/Resurrection/Ascension/Pentecost, and the the Calvinist and Reformed systems of belief which seem so much more "scientific" than the rather organic manifestation of Christ in Orthodoxy. Please forgive me, a sinner!

Hi John, At the Start of your sermon, you already contradicted your own doctrine(Calvinism).... You said that : ''God chooses who will believe and undeservingly be saved in spite of their sin'' It contradicts your doctrine because it sounds like God did not predestined them to be saved, but God upon seeing the future that they will believe, choose them. So it is no longer Predestination but Reaction of God.... 2nd, Calvinism is an evil doctrine because Calvin did not know what were the Basis of God for choosing some to be saved and some to be damned... Your only reason is: God is Sovereign, So He has the right to choose by His own counsel....

*UNDERSTANDING CALVINISM'S DOUBLE-SPEAK LANGUAGE* STATEMENT 1: God chooses who will believe and undeservingly be saved in spite of their sin. INTERPRETATION In Calvinism - the god who chooses everything that will come to pass - chooses a FEW within the total population will irresistibly believe. Since he is the one who chooses everything - he thus gives them NO CHOICE. He chooses them in spite of the sins he gave them NO CHOICE but to infallibly and thus irresistibly perform on his behalf. STATEMENT 2 God thus decides who will rebel and deservingly be lost because of their sin. INTERPRETATION. In Calvinism - the god who solely decides what will come to pass - decides MANY within the total population will infallibly and thus irresistibly rebel and be lost because of the sins he gave them NO CHOICE but to irresistibly perform on his behalf. John Calvin explains: -quote by the eternal good pleasure of god THOUGH THE REASON DOES NOT APPEAR, they are *NOT FOUND* but *MADE* worthy of destruction. - (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of god pg 121)

So..if Im not one of the "Chosen" then my Faith in Jesus is nothing? Im destend to spend eternity in Hell? Guess il just be the best sinner I can be then if iv No hope!!

Calvinism is so wrong. Seems like they use the book of Romans for their theology and ignore or fit the rest of the New Testament into their beliefs. Every Calvinist preacher I have ever heard uses the book of Romans to justify their belief.

"OH Jerusalem, Jerusalem......how I would have gathered you!......but YOU would not." God bless John Piper

We look at the New Testament and isolate it from the Old Testament. When the writers wrote these letters and gospels, their source was the old scriptures and pointed to them and how they relate to Christ and the unveiling the mysteries of the Old Testament.

I believe in free will God's REQUIREMENT that I live a holy life like a "new creation." If I am right - I am good with God. If Piper and all the other Calvinist warriors are right - I am good with God. In fact, if as they teach, nothing I do really matters - I am good with God. Here is the real problem: They believe God has enough love to save someone but not enough power to change them.