This video is on a different track to my other videos, focusing on Antwerp, but there is plenty of information relevant to Manchester and Liverpool. It was one of my original concepts for this channel, to visit other cities and compare, but viewing figures weren't always good. Please comment courteously, many thanks! Dank u wel!
Did you mean Aidan? Brendan is also a great Irish name but not the one my parents (actually my mother!) chose. Many thanks for your comment!😀 PS, you've made the correction, thanks!
Thanks for this! Only goes to show that wherever you live your architecture varies from great to appalling. I am Manchester born and feel so sad that the wonderful situation of Liverpool has been so poorly exploited with nearly all the finest buildings on the river being over 100 years old. Manchester has fared better despite government failure to back it adequately (Picc-Vic). Hopefully the improved rail link West-East will serve to unify the Northern Cities and begin a response to the overpowering control of London. After all most of the UK population live more than 100 miles from the capital.
Don't mention it, that's what I'm here for, to inform and hopefully entertain - in my own way! (no tap dances or songs!). Despite some disappointments, I still love the Liverpool waterfront, it's one of my favourite places. I'm looking forward to the East West rail link, though today's service isn't so bad, the train here was fast and (almost) punctual!
Well the choice of words was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but it is possible to learn from the mistakes of others! I’m sure planners of megaprojects all over the world could learn a lot from that book about HS2 as well as one about Berlin Brandenburg Airport!
Great insight on Antwerp Aidan,I think I’ve mentioned this before, Bilbao in Spain has some glorious modern architecture..be interested to hear your views on that city - if you fancied a trip there of course.
Yes, you'e mentioned Bilbao before. It's a little bit easier to get to than Melbourne, as someone else mentioned! I'll definitely put it on my list! Many thanks for your positive feedback.
I enjoyed this video. It makes me look forward all the more to our visit to Antwerp in August. Your visualisations of buildings pasted in to Manchester and Liverpool scenes were very good. It's a shame that the "Fourth Grace" wasn't built. Cost considerations are prioritized to the point that very little that is visually interesting is built. The problem is if it isn't beautiful or at least visually interesting, not only does it fail to add to the character of a city, it won't be valued by future generations and if they can afford to do it, they will tear it down.
Thanks, as ever, always great to receive your comments. Thanks I enjoy making 'what if' visualisations in Photoshop, like the Japanese monorail video in my previous video. I think these Antwerp buildings would look great over here. I think the designs are superior to the ones we see here. If I remember, the proposal for the 4th Grace by Will Alsop was controversial - some liked it, others were less keen as it was a visual shock when placed next to the classic Three Graces. The new building is controversial as it blocks views of the historic 3 Graces. Many buildings have been torn down in recent years. How many of the buildings currently under construction will meet the same fate in a few years time?
The redundant interconnected dock complex at Liverpool, could have made Liverpool an Amsterdam. The owners, Peel, only want to destroy them by dock infilling to create lucrative land, backed by the philistines on the council. They have succeeded. UNESCO mentioned the infilling of the 1848 Bramley Moore Dock to build Everton FCs new stadium, when stripping the city of World Heritage Status. The Dutch and Belgians value their water spaces. We have a lot to learn from them.
I always enjoy your videos. As a NW based fine art architectural photographer I know Manchester and Liverpool very well. The most recent developments in these cities seem to be about putting up buildings as quickly and cheaply as possible - they are not interesting. I generally find the adventurism and creativity of architectural projects in Europe much more interesting - such as the diamond house, though if you want to see what happens when a city says to architects "go play" then go to Rotterdam. The gulf between the quality and creativity of European vs UK architectural and infrastructure projects will only widen over time as we become more impoverished due to that act of national self-harm we committed in 2016 😭
I agree totally, including the final remark. Rotterdam - that's another city I really would like to visit - and I can practice my Dutch too! Thanks for the positive feedback, especially coming from a fine art architectural photographer.
Excellent video, Aidan. Would love to see more comparative videos (funding allowable) with European cities, and especially their planning policies that dictate their form.
Many thanks for your positive words, especially coming from you! The video is low on the scale of views, and took a lot of time and effort to produce, but it's okay. More cities for comparative videos would be Bilbao (suggested by someone in the comments), Düsseldorf, Helsinki (top of my wishlist) and maybe somewhere in Italy.
The stepped ' dutch' gables can be seen all over parts of Europe that were part of the Hanseatic League a powerful trading entity in the medieval and early modern period - during the C19 Liverpool and Manchester saw themselves as the heirs to the Hansa towns and so deliberately imitated the architectural style ( there are especially good examples in Liverpool's Castle St near the town hall. These industrial and commercial cities also saw themselves as the modern day Florentine Medici and so jostling alongside the Hanseatic architecture you'll see Italianate buildings. Liverpool's Cunard building is a copy of an actual Florentine palazzo.
Thanks very much for this very relevant information. I learned a few things. The Hanseatic League is associated with Germany and is the origin of the name of the airline Lufthansa.
When I first came to live in Manchester in the mid 80s, I was shocked by the absence of imaginative contemporary architecture in comparison to other major cities around the world. The exception to this was the Royal Exchange Theatre which (in my view) remains the best example of modern architecture in the city - even with the somewhat tacky post bomb makeover. Since then, things have certainly changed for the better with the growth of some very good architecture practices based in the city alongside a greater interest in commissioning well known international architects. Surprisingly (or maybe not), internationally known British or British based practices seem under represented. There are no Roger’s or Hadid buildings (as there are in Antwerp) and only minor examples by Norman Foster’s practice, amazing considering he was born in the city. Certain property companies have established a reputation for commissioning imaginative new buildings, examples being Urban Splash’s ‘Chips’ (surprised you didn’t mention it) or Capital and Centric’s Kampus. Where things seem to go awry is in the public domain, where traditional British parsimony when it comes to funding leads to cut corners. With the Bridgewater Hall a huge opportunity to commission a major piece of contemporary architecture by a leading architect was missed in favour of a ‘corporate’ practice. The Imperial War Museum North had to compromise on materials, finishes and the quality of hard landscaping despite being designed by Libeskind - something that would not have been conceivable had this been London. ‘Home’ arts centre commissioned Mecanoo (architects du jour for the cultural sector) with very run of the mill results. Aviva Studios/Factory International commissioned mega-starchitects OMA but after huge expectations the building looked cheap with very shoddy finishes when I visited. If you look at the same practice’s comparable building in Porto, the difference in quality is obvious. And there - I feel - lies the rub. In comparison to our peers, outside London we seem to have a culture ‘thrift’ resulting in our making do with the Poundland versions of what gets built in Europe and elsewhere.
I chuckled when I reached the part where you mentioned Urban Splash, as the Urban Splash stuff in Manchester (not Chips I admit) is what I use as an example when I say Manchester has some disgusting new buildings. I'm not at all denigrating your opinion. But beauty is clearly in the eye of the beholder!
@@chrislethbridge1759 Indeed. The particular development that I pass regularly and looks terrible, despite being quite new, is Irwell Riverside. They have built the same style of house elsewhere in Manchester too and I can't stand it, personally.
@@domtaylor2271 Ah yes, I’m less enamoured of those than some of their other developments. However for me the real architectural villains are the low rise residential and student blocks that were put up from the late 80s through to the 2000s. Horrors like The Ropeworks, that massive mess opposite the Palace Theatre or the pastiche warehouse on Hulme St. other bugbears I have are the brick Noddy villages in Salford Quays and Piccadilly Basin. As for the faux Georgian townhouse complex of offices between directly behind St Peter’s House there are no words! The list goes on but oddly these tacky developments rarely attract criticism - which I find baffling!!
Nice vid. Would be nice to see how Hamburg uses old dock waters compared to self hating Liverpool. _It’s difficult not to conclude that, in its relentless post-war economic decline, Liverpool became consumed by a hatred of its own past_ - Dr Gavin Stamp 2007
It has been redeveloped and you can easily find pictures of it. Personally l do not care for it. It has been built at a time when grey is fashionable and they have really gone with that.
Great video. Compliments your main regeneration videos. I do wish Manchester had some big free museums in the city centre! And in Liverpool demolish st johns and remodel the ferry building on the pier head - would love to see what you would put in those places 😅
You mean demolish the shopping centre, I know what you mean. They should have adapted the existing buildings. There's an incredible photo of the old facades opposite Lime Street at night, with lots of neon adverts, then the attractive old St John's Market building, all demolished for a building so ugly, they had to put up fabric covering and a giant advertising screen to hide it! Many thanks for your comment, I'm glad to get some positive feedback (after the huge amount of work I put in!'
An interesting idea for a Video Aidan and I look forward to more. Antwerp is an interesting example and actually a good comparison to Liverpool both being port cities. That said, it is a bit odd to just use LGA population. All cities are a product of their full urban and metro areas. Manchester and Bradford have about the same LGA population, but it's clear than Manchester is significantly larger - and let's not forget that a good portion of the skyscrapers are in Salford a mere 30 seconds walk across the river. That aside, I enjoyed the comparisons. I found it a little sad how Antwerp has the huge Museum aan de Stroom (and damn that's a big museum for such a medium sized city). Liverpool has their own wonderful version, Museum of Liverpool, but Manchester, the largest city of the three doesn't have any museum dedicated to itself (though it once did - way back before it attracted tourists) There's also an awful lot of transport projects cancelled in the UK due to "lack of funds". Or, as we discovered with HS2, not so much a lack of funds, but redirecting those funds back to the south to fix their potholes. That said, I'm sure Belgium has it's own issues with funding maybe being more prevalent in one part of that divided country than the other. Oh, another slight correction, Liverpool was to benefit from HS2 and hugely. Although the HS2 line itself didn't go direct to Liverpool, HS2 was still to reach Liverpool via the NPR rail link. This was also a high speed line from Liverpool Manchester Airport Manchester Bradford Leeds. The train would have gone from Liverpool Lime Street to join HS2 all the way to London at Manchester Airport. The whole route would have been high speed. Just the things that the press often leave out when dumbing these down. In fact, it was the press that pretty much killed HS2 and NPR by focusing on the speed when in fact it had nothing to do with speed. It was all about relieving congestion and speed just came for free with a modern train line. Of course, not much help now, although I see Liverpool & Manchester are really pushing NPR at least between the two cities and looking at ways of connecting that to HS2 via another way. Hell, a great comparison between two cities would be Manchester and Melbourne. Melbourne used to be the nation's laughing stock back in the 80s, but really turned itself around (much like Manchester has since as well) - although many would argue that Melbourne done it much quicker and more dramatic. Pretty much everything it does, it does better than Manchester from public transport to museums to parks to restaurants etc (although Manchester probably would win in nightlife). A good comparison would be really good (and it'll give you a good reason to travel there). I can help with details as I know both cities quite well.
I highlighted the LGA population as it's similar for all three - half a million plus or minus a bit. Thanks for the clarification on the HS2 link. It still wasn't a direct link to London and inferior to what was being offered to Manchester. Hopefully NPR will move forward, I travel between Manchester and Liverpool quite often! Melbourne, sounds like it would be a very interesting comparison. I think I would need quite a few 'buymeacoffee' contributions to get together the air fare from Manchester to Melbourne, but we'll see. I'm sure I would find it fascinating. I'll put it on my list! Many thanks for your great contribution and glad you found the idea interesting.
Liverpool to London would run on high speed track only at Warrington. To Warrington there are too many restrictions and the old Fiddler's Ferry freight line was to be used to Warrington. So slow to Warrington. From time parity with Manchester to London currently, Liverpool would be approx 30 mins slower. I was delighted when phase 2 of HS2 was cancelled for _many_ reasons. Unfortunately the Liverpool Region has a light weight mayor who has not much of a clue of how cities work.
@@johnburns4017 whilst we don’t know the exact route, it is likely that the train would have turned at Waverly which is less than 2miles from Lime St and quad track, allowing it to retain decent speed and segregation, then with effectively new high speed track starting there as they would have upgraded the existing, barely used freight track. This would then have given a much quicker and more reliable route to London along with the now promised line to Manchester. You’ve lost out with HS2 being cancelled and gained nothing.
@@joc6516 You speculate at best - more like dreaming. The *_facts_* are that after the Integrated Rail plan high-speed rail track stopped at the eastern platforms of Warrington Bank Q LL, all slow line to the west. The plan is online have a look. The journey time from London to Liverpool would have been approx *30 mins* slower than Manchester. Liverpool has gained with cancellation of phase 2 in journey times, as its competitive neighbour is not ahead. I would say additional gains as focus is now on NPR. But having a naive metro-mayor who is being led by the nose by Manchester's Andy Burnham, Liverpool will still struggle. The pair of them announced last week a proposal to reinstate by stealth a section of HS2 - the HS2 super-expensive 10 mile gold plated tunnel from MAN airport to Piccadilly, a second airport station and an additional underground station at Piccadilly. Despite having adjacent Manchester, London and metro lines Liverpool's John Lennon airport is ignored still absent of a rail link. The Liverpool mayor went along with this sham shooting his own city in the foot - no kidding. If only the existing disused rail infrastructure around Liverpool and The Wirral was reused, with Central expanded with a pedestrian link to Lime St, the city would _greatly_ benefit. If Liverpool was in Germany all this would have been done decades ago. Liverpool City Region has so much going for it - one of the largest disease R&D and medical manufacturing centres in the world in Health & Life Sciences for e.g. Few know that, even in Liverpool. The incompetent, metro-mayor, Rotheram Mr Invisible, the man presiding over the stripping from the city of World Heritage Status, had just been re-elected so Liverpool will not get to where it should be. Advance? What a hope! Architectural historian Gavin Stamp suggested that Britain needed some new architectural prizes: the Attila the Hun award for vandalism that never ceases, which was won by Liverpool city council _“for its cynical indifference to World Heritage status”._ And back to your main point. HS2 being cancelled was good for the Liverpool City Region.
Don’t agree about the Zaha Hadid building. The problem is it literally overshadows the older building beneath. I also don’t agree about Manchester being inward looking. In fact l would say the opposite. Manchester has transformed itself by looking outwards. Incidentally the book on the reasons mega projects often fail has been written by Flyvberg.
Two things about Liverpool following comments you made. Liverpool wasn't entirely going to be left out of HS2. The plan was that high speed trains would use HS2 to Crewe and then conventional (i.e. existing) lines into the city. This would of course make the journey slightly slower. Secondly on the question of a lack of a tram system in Liverpool, as you said in the 70s Manchester wanted an underground railway However, so did Liverpool. in Liverpool's case it got built and it serves much the same purpose as Metrolink.
Well I understand there was talk originally of having the high speed line all the way to Liverpool but then it was cut back, as we've seen. I mentioned in the video that the Liverpool Loop line was completed in 1977, but it's quite different from a tram system, like they have in Antwerp. You don't use the Loop much to travel around the city centre - I occasionally do from James St to Lime St if I'm in a hurry. Still, valuable points of clarification, many thanks for taking the time to comment.
Not one nut and bolt of HS2 was to go within 20 miles of Liverpool. Manchester had a distinct advantage in journey time than Liverpool to London. Liverpool to Birmingham was also not on HS2. Liverpool was purposely screwed. Liverpool has a full blown metro, underground in the centres of Liverpool and Birkenhead, which is very different to street running trams. A metro with nearly 4 miles of tunnel under Liverpool's centre still awaiting trains.
The problem with Manchester is it is awful at public realm. Every open space looks like a car park. Ironically in a country renowned for its beautiful gardens, English cities excepting London,are poor at city centre parks. We are also poor at using rivers properly. The Irwell is about as enticing as toothache. Why are there no pleasant walks near the river in Manchester City centre?
This is a very good point. Manchester has made a mess of so many public realm projects. As for the Irwell, it was never historically made a feature of the city - unlike the Liffey in Dublin or the Seine in Paris. Manchester and Salford both turned their backs on the River Irwell. Today it's impossible to build quays along the river, at least not the whole way due to property issues. Still, it looks better than it did and the water quality is much improved.
Thanks for the comments that I’m dreaming. I really appreciate that form of conversation. Feel free to also prove your point by linking to your claimed route. I find this interesting as no route had actually been decided on since the NPR line has not even started yet. But hey, feel free to provide links to evidence from something that has started. I’m also keen to see all the benefits we now have from a cancelled HS2. And no, your claim that NPR line to Manchester is benefits of cancelled HS2 is not one of the benefits. We were to get both. HS2 was cancelled and then the same government that cancelled claimed it woulkd reinvest that money into NPR, but since that funding was already approved before hand, it's not a benefit. It seems to me you're real gripe is with Manchester and your mayor. Sorry, but blaming another city won't help your cause, nor will blaming a mayor who ultimately doesn't provide the funding. Blame the government in London who won't fund a better alternative for Liverpool. Think of them when you vote in the next election.
