Anvil Rebound Test - Steel vs. Wrought vs. Cast Iron vs. Rail - All Compared Side By Side. 

Regarding the poor performance of the railroad track: it should be noted that track is made to bear outrageous load both without cracking and without excess mass under a wide variety of environmental changes. The harder the steel the more brittle and crack prone it is. That's why you temper after hardening. Rail must be made in enormous and expensive quantities and the less metal per mile of track the better. That is why it has an I-beam shape. And, in fact, the load bearing capacity of any I-beam is proportional to the height of the beam, not the mass of the material. Make an I-beam from particle board and its load capacity can be incredible if you make the beam tall enough. Finally, track rail is extruded, not cast or forged. This means that it must be exceptionally ductile since the extrusion process stresses the metal in all directions at once. Past a limit, hard steel cannot be ductile and that is why it cracks so readily. It is also why top of the line anvils have a huge ductile mass underneath to support the hardened steel surface so that the hard surface can withstand decades of hammer force blows without cracking.

Congrats on 100. I watch hundreds of videos per week on many different subjects and your videos are number one with me. They are concise, right to the point, informative and impartial as humanly possible in a regular workshop. So I congratulate you on your style, substance and quality of your videos. Keep them coming.

Man, what a great video! This is exactly the video I needed. Thank you!

I love your backing music, subtle, non obtrusive but pleasant and easy to listen to great choice! Awesome video too thank you.

The rail section, in practice, performs better than your drop test indicates. My thought is that the undressed surface of the rail (Still curved, not flat) affected the rebound forces directionally. They definitely work better when dressed flat. I have also seen one individual who placed two sections side by side and welded a flat over both. Not quite as good as a tempered (wrought iron) anvil, but quite close. Overall, though, I appreciate this video. Good work.

I am a Machinist by Trade and I have an Old Heat Treat Gauge that is a Plexiglass Tube that has a Ball Bearing in it and the tube has Markings on it. to use it you just flip it upside Down and the tube has a slot in it so you can put your thumb there to hold the bearing. then let go and let it bounce. and read how high it bounced on the Scale

Thanks for the test. I would have thought that the rail would perform better as well. I wonder if the weight difference between each anvil plays a part. I have an 18" section of rail track with 1.5" plate welded to the base, coming in at about 115 lbs. I'll have to do a test of my own. If my results differ very much maybe I'll make a video response. Cheers.

Congratulations on the 100th Video. Keep them coming. Thanks for all the time and effort you put into these.

Great experiment! Been subscribed for about a year and love your channel. Congrats on your 100th.

As usual you have performed a very good video.. I would state however the mass of the anvils is a factor in these results. The more mass, the more potential energy. My suggestion to anyone starting out, get the best anvil for your money you can afford. As you progress, you will be able to get a larger, better anvil. Now back to you Jeff, I commend you for finally providing a side by side test. people starting out need to realize the better the rebound, the less work they will have to do when pounding the metal when making whatever they desire to forge. Congratulations on your 100th video.

An excellent demonstration. Please can you show what the anvils were mounted on? In order to obtain the same deck-height and level, was wood packing used? By Newton, action and reaction being equal and opposite, the anvils would go in the opposite direction to the ball, and compress any packing to a certain extent. To take the example to extremes, a piece of 16ga sheet rested on a 4x4 would not rebound at all, as the wood would absorb the impact. Perhaps repeating the test with all the anvils set directly onto the concrete floor would be absolute.

This video is exactly what I needed. Thankyou so much 👍

My take: none of this matters. Blacksmithing is a build and budget art. Not who's cologne was more expensive.

I think the welded pin changed the results more than anything. The bearing would have been better, but I think the results were conclusive enough

Good job. Now I can SHOW the wife why I coughed up so much money for my Soderfors. When I strike this thing, you better not be in the way as the hammer is coming back to attack you.

Congrats on 100th video! And this was a great test and demonstration. I have hit all the styles of anvil, and agree that cast iron is the worst for rebound. The tool steel face of a wrought anvil has been the best. If I had to start all over, I would still use rail over cast iron. Thanks!

I don't know why I must comment on this nearly 4 year old video but, I simply MUST. A ball bearing without a stud welded to it would have been a realistic choice, however with the stud welded on, a significant and unnecessary variable is introduced. Perhaps a square cube could yield more accurate results JK;) I can only assume that at some point since, you have realized this, and I apologize for my lack of self control. It was an interesting experiment though and I appreciate your efforts in presenting it. Cheers

This is a super valuable demo. Great info for us anvil hounds.

Excellent. Your focus and methods are improving and improving. (not snide, genuine compliment) Keep going!

This is Very Good video!! I like the Control parameters yall used to keep it Fair. Congratulations on 100 !!!!!!!...

Did you get any dimples on any of the anvils? Which ones and how deep? What's the weight of your ball?

nice test. cg on your 100th! cheers.

As you found out Using a bearing (I like to use a half inch.) is a great way to find dead spots due to abuse, bad welds, delamination, some body using the anvil as a torch bench and other defects. I like video. Thanks.

Cool, nice comparison vid, congrats on the 100. keep on.

i read that the train rail anvil needs more weight or mass added to it to perform like a regular anvil. don't know what you could use i was thinking old window weights attached under the sides. be interesting to see if that would change the test.

I like the comparison. The weight of the anvils though makes this a little put of balance. But it does show to the introductory smiths what they can get for the first anvil.

A round ball at a constant temperature is better at getting accurate height rebound. The piece of metal on the end of the steel ball will affect the rebound torque causing gravity to work against the weight of the bar on the steel ball. Physic professor here....

Great, thanks. I have a 122 lb. Peter Wright. When I put it on the oak stump no matter what I do, I cannot stop the ringing in my ears. I moved it on top of 2 cast semi brake drums stacked on top of each other and a old cast iron transmission case, what a difference! I swear I get better rebound. Can the same anvil have a different rebound depending upon it's mounting? Concrete or dirt?

I was playing around in the shop the other day... I am putting a new face on my anvil, and while I was doing that, waiting for preheat, etc,, I decided to do some spark tests, etc. Brain was humming.. I was thinking about this, anvil ring, did a ring test on 3 different stands, etc.. Did a video I will post soon.. I think.. That Metal Hardness is a primary reason for rebound. Much more so than mass.. Saw your other video and it confirmed that.. The plate I am adding to my old beat down "gave to me for free" anvil is getting a new face of 1-1/4" thick 4140 plate steel.. I know the material is tough. Too many hardy cutoffs, top tools etc are made from them to make me think different. I was shocked to do a bounce test on it and see that it hardly performed at all. I'm not sure if I am going to be able to harden it,, since it is part of a much larger mass now.. 150 lbs now. If you ever run across two pieces of steel, or have a way to test one piece, Anneal it, test it, Harden it, test it, then, temper to some grade for it's intended use and test it again, I would bet that, many an argument would have a short and sweet ending.. I suspect, rebound is all about hardness, and little about mass.. And, then,, Cast Iron comes to the forefront to hack the theory. Hmmm.. I ordered two of the stainless steel 1" balls for my rebound tests.. I should anneal one, and leave the other alone and test them both..

Thanks, I enjoyed the video. I see you have 2 anvils & two ASO . My anvil 150 lbs, 94 years 0ld & I am the fouth owner.

I'll be sticking around a lot. Keep it up, I know that it's a lot of work but hey, we are worth it. Thank you Jeff.... Mike

Curious why you did no weight/mass calculations. what was the weight difference between them all? It appears to me that the one that preformed the best also had the most mass. also what was the weight of the bearing?

Do you think that the design of your ball bearing with the shaft played a role in the numbers as well? Reason I ask is the quick angle and weight distribution upon impact and it varied each time. I’m curious what the difference would have been with a completely round ball bearing instead.

thanks for the video. i can appreciate the effort you put out for this test. having said that, i can be thick headed sometimes, what did the test actually prove or what was the point in the test. if suff rebounds higher is that a better anvil. really interested in your response am always trying to learn something. again thanks

congrats on 100 videos guys! now THIS is how you do a test. everything set up the same and done fairly. i honestly expected the rail to do better as well... that wrought iron is pretty good, i need to find a proper anvil. mine probably has nowhere near enough rebound... if i can find a ballbearing the same size as what you used, ill conduct a test of my own and let you the results :) take care guys!

I see a lot of scientific tests on much more complicated things. This test is plenty accurate for the facts gleaned. 100 drops with a perfectly round heat treated steel ball will be more precise, but that precision is just not necessary. The data gained from this test is just great. Well done! Super job!!! The steel face is by far the superior. The rest are junk for my taste. Thanks immensely.

Did the bearing damage the surface of any of the anvil's? I take it the wrought iron anvil was used. Did it looked pitted or dinged from use?

Nice Jeff - loved the video - very interesting and thanks for sharing

Did the wrought iron anvil have a hardened steel face?

I've seen many videos of a rebound test on various animals. Your methodology was excellent. My only major question is why is it important to have that much rebound? What does Rebound do for you as a blacksmith?

Would a 2 inch steel plate make a better deal for cast iron harbor freight anvil

The rail may not have performed as well because of its lower mass. I would like to see (hear) video of one drop from each anvil played consecutively without pause to get a better idea of the ringing in each anvil.

wow really surprised about the rail. I have a rail shaped like an anvil and was hoping it would have done better. I'l have to make my own test to see if the rails do vary like you said....

Excellent testing Very very good information....I guess I wont be getting my first Anvil at HF. I guess the question is where does a novice garage hobbyist get a reasonably low cost anvil that isnt crap?

Does HF have a 70lb anvil? I've only seen the 15lb and 55lb. I used the 55lb HF anvil for over a year of forging basically everyday. That thing was like a bowl when I was done with it. Lol. It had a lot of work on it though. I put a new face plate on it, ground the horn more round and now it's waiting to be set up and used for when visitors come to forge with me.

Interesting. Enjoyed the video. Thank you.

Nice job, I appreciate that you took the trouble to do the side by side comparisons. I think your results are very valid, but I do wish you had used a smaller ball bearing without anything welded to it. I understand why you did what you did, but I do think you put the rail anvil at an unfair disadvantage; a smaller ball bearing without anything welded to it would have been closer to a more neutral test across the board, given that the rail anvil had much less mass - it's a good lesson that a rail anvil needs mass added, and maybe it would benefit from welding a hardened too steel plate onto the face, which seems like a sacrilige but, hey, if the rail steel isn't hard enough, it isn't hard enough. I wonder if the rail steel can be case hardened to make the face much harder?

great video and thank you for your comparison

Big difference between the wrought iron and cast iron! If you do it again, there is a school of thought that rail road track does better as an anvil on end, even though you obviously only get a very small striking face - that would make an interesting test.

im guessing this is because by hardness it goes steel> wrought iron > cast iron so the steel will deform less and thus wont absorb as much energy from the ball causing it to bounce higher

ok I'm new to this...I assume the better the rebound the less arm fatigue??...any other possible pros/cons related to rebound??

Very interesting and informative rebound test. Thank you. It would be interesting to see this performed on a section of rail before and after hardening the rail piece. How much of a difference could it make on a piece similar to the one you hardened a few days before posting this video? I have heard anecdotal evidence that the ends of the rail are harder than near the centers because the ends literally get hammered by the wheels more, slightly compacting the surface and making it a little harder. This compacting can be so minute that only a micrometer could detect it but could nevertheless harden the surface noticeably. So the story goes. Is there an truth to this?

I'm just getting started in smithing and was considering a stainless steel anvil . . . but no. Can you tell me where to get a cast, steel faced anvil (a good anvil)?

What brand anvil is the cast bottom with steel top? That one had hella rebound

Why is it so important to have a high rebound? I did wonder why Smith's bounce their hammers on the anvil between hitting the hot metal so what's the reason please?

Very interesting, some surprises there

So what's better more or less bounce

to test rebound can a small ball bearing be used or do you need a large ball bearing ? im new to all of this and was going to look at a used hay budden anvil later today the guy is asking $650 not sure what to do hope ypu can give me some advice

What's the difference between cast steel and cast iron?

Very good job! Congrats on being systematic. I can use this vid as a reference forever now. I didn't get that bit: was the wrought iron actual wrought iron (the real old stuff?) Whow, that's some rare antique! My question is: is its face hardened steel or just wrought iron? If so, this proves that the cast iron's weakness (as an anvil) is because it absorbs vibrations (energy). As for the rail, I'm sure the big difference is due only to its weight. A section with a similar weight as the two real anvils would have performed better.

Quick question, what does rebound have to do with how good an anvil is?

Thank you for posting this video. It was very informative and I agree with you about rail and cast steel. It seems that a good investment might be to buy a cheap cast steel anvil and weld a 0.5" steel plate (maybe 1095?) as the table then harden the face.

So which is better low rebound or high rebound

plz share what is the composition or type of steel used for make steel anvil

Very good test - thank you. I strongly suggest you to include in the caption above the explanation from Tony Turner (bellow) on why your test is a very relevant test.

G'day mate, your measurement isn't from the center of mass. Your numbers are off, if only slightly because of the welded shaft. Tim also makes a good point about sample size. Saying that, great comparison, and good data to have before laying out cash, or passing up something cheap because it isn't "as good" as a steel anvil. Good work mate.

Thank-you for the experiment. I was also surprised the rail didn't do as well but I have a feeling it may be due to it's mass and/or height?

was wondering why the little one i have has basically no recoil...ty for the video

I believe the train track has a higher quality than represented but much lower weight to rebound the inertia.

What was the hypothesis again?

PS: thanks for the effort

Do the results relate to tone/pitch of strike sound?

Thanks. Gained a subscriber👍

very cool video

to make it clearer I think everyone should have the same weight ! 🖒

So which one is recommended?

But what is your opinion of stainless steel anvils

I am curious as to what this means to me. I have a section of track that is actually crane track and instead of that narrow piece you have mine is about 8 inches wide. It really rings when I hit it with a hammer. It rings to the point that I need ear protection when I use it. What difference is it going to make to a project if I use my piece of track instead of a cast iron anvil?

what about a barge cleat? I came across one I was going to use as a anvil!?

I like your videos very much. However, I know between little and none about metal or working with it. So please tell me what this test is supposed to teach. God Bless my friend.

when anvils were made by blacksmiths they were cast steel, unfortunately its a hit and miss approach as many have defects, its all about metallurgy, I imagine it would have been hard to make an anvil last a lifetime as there was no process of quality control. so the solution for old anvils is to put a thick plate on the deck to stop the breakage as I have seen many a broken anvil.

I wish I could say I know more about this stuff but I don't. So it's better to have more rebound... if so why?

Is it better to have more or less rebound?

was the rail hardened or heat treated?

Good video thanks.

Good information to shop.with Thanks

thanks for your test

Could a cast aluminum anvil work for certain things?

Is rebound good or bad?

What about a solid cast steel??

Does the size and weight of the anvil not effect the amount of rebound you will get? The more metal the less give, so I know it's not gonna happen and your control method was fine in my opinion but it was not only the metal that was variable but size for size would it make a difference. Maybe someone out there could work out a formula?

I haven't started blacksmithing yet, so while I found this video great for comparing the anvils (which you showed how they can sound different too) in the end, you forgot to mention how the rebound matters. Is it better to have a bigger rebound, or less? It would seem more rebound would be better? because then you know most of the energy of your strike would be sent into your object you are working on and not absorbed by the anvil??? I'm guessing a low rebound must mean energy is absorbed by the anvil, so bad? It would be interesting to see what alterations could be done to a railroad track to make it a better anvil. LOL, OH I see you answer this in the comments. :)

So.......... Is the least amount of rebound advantageous or the most? Asking as an ignorant first time viewer.

You have to clean all the rust off of that wrought anvil to get full rebound out of it.

So which Anvil performed the best ? 😨

Thanks buddy, yeah try a clear tube

one thing with the rails used rail has a harder surfice than new rail and im guessing more modern track is better made than the stuff they used lets say 60-70 years ago

The other anvils beside cast iron and rail had such good rebound because they are hardened a hardened anvil will send a larger vibration sending the bearing back up but the rail isn't hardened so you should try that again with a hardened rail

Congratulations on a hundred videos! Now we're waiting for all the railroad track fan boys to come out of the woodwork and tell you that you did the test wrong! Lol, thanks for doing this brother!

Congratulations to you sir I am Ajay from india