Menu: ===== Is there are future in networking? 0:00 Ivan Peppelnjak CCIE 1345 Emeritus: 1:04 Should I study networking or rather something else? 1:44 You are designing Power Transmission: 3:11 What is an expert? And engineer? 4:10 Ivan's snark: 5:35 Levels of expertise: 5:53 I'm starting out - will I be successful? 6:58 Are certs and degrees valuable? 8:36 Young people are struggling? 11:34 How do I get experience? 11:52 It brought you to this table, now what? 13:15 You're got to do something: 14:24 What about social media? 14:44 You have to build your brand: 16:02 What brand are you going to build? 16:38 Perfect is the enemy: 17:45 What brand? 18:50 What about LinkedIn? 19:04 Why not get experience? 20:33 Social media reach: 22:15 Own the content: 23:25 Ivan's rant: 24:25 What about Cisco DevNet certs? 26:18 Will network engineers be replaced: 28:18 Does this make sense? 29:30 What about the past? 30:30 What should I learn? 32:30 Previous videos: The top 10 skills Network Engineers need to learn in 2019: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-grS__DS3v7c.html What should I do: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BmnRf0HCy_Q.html ================ Connect with Ivan: ================ Website: bit.ly/2Hci4oL Twitter: twitter.com/ioshints LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/ivanpepelnjak/ ================ Connect with me: ================ Discord: discord.com/invite/usKSyzb Twitter: twitter.com/davidbombal Instagram: instagram.com/davidbombal LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/davidbombal Facebook: facebook.com/davidbombal.co TikTok: tiktok.com/@davidbombal RU-vid: ru-vid.com ================ Support me: ================ DavidBombal.com: CCNA ($10): bit.ly/yt999ccna Udemy CCNA Course: bit.ly/ccnafor10dollars GNS3 CCNA Course: CCNA ($10): bit.ly/gns3ccna10 ====================== Special Offers: ====================== Boson software: 15% discount Link: bit.ly/boson15 Code: DBAF15P
when the next part of this talk will be uploaded ?? is that all ready upload. thanks for this video because i have been waiting for this kind of explanation thanks @David Bombal and lvan peppelnjak
"Every environment will get to a point where the network will be down. And who will troubleshoot that? The Python guys? The Cloud guys? Or someone who took time and learned the fundamentals" Wow. What a way to end an interview. Thanks David , and Ivan.
@Keith Barker wierd how I took a break from one of your CBT Nuggets (CCNP OSPF Network Types) to come watch this video and I see you over here in the comments!!
Not necessarily. Sometimes a job is available and you do not meet the minimum requirements and it may only take you communicating with the hiring manager and conveying your interest. If you ask about it and start a dialog you can sell your self by either demonstrating or providing examples of the things you know, things you did and are doing. A lot of the time, hiring managers can lower the requirments so you can get past HR. You do not need to be an expert but you do need to have a attitude that's speaks confidence that you know what you can do but also know you need to get better and will get better no matter what
As a network engineer for nearly 15 years, I found this interview incredibly interesting and full of hard/sharp truths. One area where I have a different perspective however is regarding VOIP as just another application. As network engineers, you should care a lot about applications and how they behave. After all, customers really don't care what technology a network uses, weather its OSPF, MPLS, SD-WAN, all customers want is a good application experience.
Great feedback and viewpoint Kevin. I don't agree with everything Ivan says, but he definitely gives us a lot to think about and shares from a wealth of experience and knowledge.
@@davidbombal Thanks David. Again i'd like to say it was a great interview. If anything, I have been inspired to start tinkering around with hugo and create some content!
Sir I'm obsessed with this career but does it require mathematics skills like I'm weak when it comes to it. But my dream was technical careers always such as network engineer
Love this guy and his honesty. “Who cares about Cisco CLI” and “90% of CCNA is marketing crap”! Both quite true comments. I’ve been a Network engineer for over 10 years and I’ve never held a Cisco certificate. I’m now a network architect, but I use a wide range of vendors. The certificate gets you your first and maybe second job. After that, it’s about proven experience. So many employers want their experts to have a wide array of vendors and skills, not just someone who can build a Cisco R&S network. Don’t get me wrong, you MUST learn the fundamentals of networking, but they don’t need to be vendor specific for many organisations!
@@TheyCallMeMannes that’s a real shame! There are so many strong engineers that haven’t followed the Cisco certification path. Don’t get me wrong, learning the material is beneficial, but if you don’t necessarily “need” the certificate, then I just wouldn’t go for the exam. I’ve just recently been offered a new network architect role for a company that owns one of the biggest chain of holiday parks in the UK. I went up against several other Cisco certified engineers and took part in a 4 stage process. I ended up being offered the role and getting myself a £20k increase in salary! My point is, it’s not always about qualifications, a lot of roles now want someone with a personality, who is approachable, isn’t awkward, can explain complex issues in a simple way to customers, but also has the technical knowledge to a satisfactory level, or can at least find the answer when necessary.
@@resedent2009 in Germany they don't really like people who don't have an official certification for something. let me give you another example. even on TV, when presenting someone that has skills about something, if that person is self taught, they make sure they mention it (the term is selbstgelernter) as in to make the difference between someone who studied for that something and someone who may have gained experience almost by try-and-error or from untrusted sources, without attending any classes to learn about that "something" from someone qualified. Moreover, even though I've been an IT engineer in the field of Linux and networking since 2007, who studied telecommunications at Uni and even has a master's degree, until I got the CCNA certification, I couldn't nail a true network engineer job. All the recruiters I was in contact with said the same, even though I have the qualification I don't have the certification. On the other hand, a regular Linux admin doesn't need such a proof of knowledge, a solid background and experience being more than enough.
Last few minutes were superb of this interview. Thanks David & Ivan for motivating & inspiring thousands of Network Engineers like me who really don't know what to learn next and which one is best among available options
Anyone who goes through this man can never come out an ordinary engineer. He even talks like the old real-deal scientists we read of in history. Thanks David for this session.
Can we get another interview session with Ivan? He is a great person to guide us in a better way. If he share some idea about the learning path(short term or long term) that could be very helpful. Also I would thank you for this amazing video.
"Learn the fundamentals" because "every network is going to go down at some point" and you need to know the basics to be able to troubleshoot it. Today i'm in the position to do job interviews myself, one of my favorite questions was "Host A pings to Host B via Router C, all caches empty". "Explain exactly on Layer2 & 3, what what packets are generated by what devices." It is just astonishing how my people fail. Recently i changed job and got asked basically the same question. I had a good laugh, and after explanation, the interviewer laughed along :) So yeah, learn the basics!
This is so true and accurate. I'm 23 and I had my CCNA certification last 2019, and yes certifications don't mean anything if you barely have any skills to show your employer. Work experiences are much more preferred when applying for a job, especially here in the country that I'm residing. So it's really best to hone your skills before you set out for a professional career.
I think network engineers will not dissappear but their work will adapt to the emerging technologies that are now changing the game. They will gain more knowledge in other areas such as coding and cybersecurity.
"You can't find anything? Join an open-source project! Write documentation, write unit tests." - I whole-heartedly agree! As the creator of the Ostinato traffic generator for network engineers, here's something right in the alley - there's a lot of demand for Ostinato tutorials (as David can attest to, I guess) and I'm just not able to find the time for it!
Interesting perspective, learn the fundamentals, I appreciate this information. Like a thousands of people I'm looking for a valuable knowledge that help me to keep growing into IT and network solutions, but everyone is pushing for devops and software engineering. Sometimes seems like employers don't appreciate network engineers, just programmers.
Network engineers are always going to be in business. After all, Network is what connects all these clouds together. My entire career started by understanding the first 3 layers of OSI model (school + ISP job). this knowledge is a very solid foundation that allows you to move further in a lot of directions. Ok, I'll check out the interview now ^_^
This interview is really good and I appreciate the advice given here. I do think it could be unrealistic for people to carve time to go volunteer to gather experience when people are trying to survive at this point.
I've been a network engineer for a good number of years now and would like to share my experience with hardest part, "how do I get experience". I worked for a company (not network engineer) and I was studying CCNA. I went upstairs and found the NOC manager and told them I was studying and wanted to be a network engineer. I asked if I could come up and meet the team and shoulder a few of the guys, learn what they did. A vacancy came up eventually and I got the job. I don't think it was because I was good, I wasn't.. I sucked. But I put myself ahead of the "identical CVs" by showing my face and my interest. I was so scared before doing it (I'm quite shy) but I'm so glad I did. My fear of rejection was my biggest barrier, not my capabilities or knowledge. Learning is the easy bit. Best of luck for anyone attempting to get into networking, we need you.. Good engineers are hard to find :)
Very insightful. In my experience, I have always believed abstraction has a few downsides. The good part is abstraction expedites the building of software, networks, and other complex stuff by avoiding complexity, and focusing on the domain. But when things break, folks with clear fundamentals and good troubleshooting skills are the ones that save the day. If someone is building a good abstraction, then it is their responsibility to build tools for that ecosystem, that will help instrument that layer of abstraction.
Strongly agree with "fundamentals" thing, basic routing and switching never gets old and it solves 90% of the stuff you may think off, don't focus on specifics, because you'll never master basics(which is 80% of the stuff in ccie R&S track) in that case. But I disagree with the point of "find another developer and let him write the code, because he does that better". In my experience, coding knowledge works in conjunction with your networking skills resulting in synergy in both fields. There are not that many good network engineers, and even less network engineers who can code, but when you become such person - it gives you much more, than learning another useless vendor track or technology, because the ability to code is also BASIC stuff you can use throughout you whole career. Also, there's a logical error. If a guy works as a backend developer for 10 years, it doesn't mean he knows python well. And assuming that you can't measure this guys knowledge in advance means that you're just believe that every software engineer working the same amount of years has the same professional value as you in your field, which is simply not true. So, learn to code guys, but basics first! :)
First off thank you David for these videos. As someone without a father, these interview types of videos have given me direction, insight and providing answers to questions, I imagine I'd ask my father.
Hi San...I consider Dennis Prager one of my father figures. Try listening to his radio show sometime. I truly believe you’ll benefit as I have over the years
I am getting into my CCNA I hope to get my certificate this year but honestly all this stuff about networking changes get me a little anxious becuse I think I am fallen behind but after seeing this video and how ivan ended this interview thanks fundamentals obviously will be important always. Thanks David for this video.
If you are just starting out, I will suggest to do CCNA/JNCIA with an associate cloud certification from AWS or Microsoft. In this way, you are ready to jump in traditional network, cloud and hybrid cloud.
Great video! Love the new content :) - Love at the end "if the network is down, who will troubleshoot it? the python guys ? the cloud guys ? ... or someone who took time and learned the fundamentals" .. gives me confidence to continue studying and progressing in networking!
@@davidbombal That would be an understatement! Your like my mentor in networking and life! :) got my CCNA exam booked for next month, after completing your course on Udemy!
Volunteering to friends and family is the way I got a lot of my experience. Working for your schools IT as a great way to keep focused on your studies too!!
I was looking to see if anyone else pointed it out as well. The way he puts networking into perspective separate of the applications isn't something you seem to hear often today. I am not into the field just yet and am studying for my CCNA, and from a lot of what I was reading it was sounding like the two roles were being merged into one. Was interesting to hear his take on the current landscape.
I totally agree when he said about learning the fundamentals for the long term. People may learn about SDN, SD-WAN, network automation, etc, but they are all about get things done faster and more efficient. And maybe in the next 5 years there will be something new, faster and more efficient to replace those. The fundamentals? the IP routing, ethernet, arp, tcp, they are still the same and they will be for the long term. And the guy who learn and master the fundamentals is a network engineer, so network engineer will always be needed.
Spot on! And too be certified in all of the relevant areas and vendors would take a huge amount of time and be incredibly frustrating. Get the fundamentals and then get out there and gets hands on 👍🏻
best jobs are the ones that you don't applies to , the best jobs are the ones that are created for you because they wants you omg that's super motivational , this is really epic interview
1 - Do something> Anything if you are a beginner; Fix your network, fix someone else's network, take things apart, understand them. Show that on a interview and talk about it in your CV. Why are you different? 2 - Certifications are good but not everything> Just as a college curriculum, it is a structured way of learning. It ends up implying much more than just what you have learned. It means that you can dedicate your time to learn, structured thinking. But more than that, how can you aggregate value for a company or for someone you are/want to work for, besides a certification? 3 - Document what you do > Choose less ephemeral platforms where your work can be found. Prefer to set up your own website or blog. Just as before, it implies that you took the time, learned how to set up a website, probably learned some cloud on the way, tools, CI/CD, networking.. etc. And then link it on your LinkedIn, FB, whatever. You end up owning that. 4 - Learn the fundamentals > Fundamentals support you on the long run. Frameworks change, cloud changes, but the underlying fundamentals of networking or whatever you are dedicated to are more solid and just as a foundation to a building, supports everything else to come on that field. That's what I took from the interview. Awesome content by the way!
🔰 Alot of people don’t understand Jorge; His advice is pure gold. You don’t need to buy Jorge’s coaching to discern his valuable and tangible advice. Many times it’s not the best technical person that get the job, but the person who can use their soft skills to articulate.
Hi David, we met @ Cisco Live in 2019. We discussed this very topic and what we do at Google. Ivan's mostly right although I have a different perspective on skills, taking on software skills. Taking next 3 years to learn coding/software will not be a waste and would be generally a more durable investment than learning any particular vendor technology. Programming should be part of the fundamental repertoire for a network engineer.
Understand his point, however when there is a problem which needs fixing you are far better off if you have multiple skillsets. I am usually the one the team comes to when they need something fixed. Those that have only focused on one area have difficulty working out whos remit an issue falls under. While others debate trying to figure out where the issue is, someone with a broader understanding has already pinpointed the location of the problem, knows what skillset will be required to fix it, and if not within their skillset, has already delegated the problem to the appropriate person with an explanation of the issue. People think about these things too linearly imo; people don't work like that. They can be adept at more than one thing, and have fundamental knowledge of some other areas to compliment. If you want to be able to fix something, having a fundamental understanding of other branches is invaluable. It takes away the whole squabble of whether the issue is networks, systems, or development, which just wastes time. No one bats an eye at a GP, so strive to be a GP of I.T.
In your many videos, I found some sentences which really made me think twice/ multiple times sometime. In this video, the sentence was " the definition of best job, which are made for you, because they want you" !! really wonderful!
I generally picture Network Engineering as being a "plumber." I am currently a Jr. Network admin after years of working at an MSP, and my higher ups are definitley training me in a trade. To understand how internet communication works on the fundamental level will always be a needed skill.
Thank you David for this amazing and eye opening video and a big thank you to one and only Ivan peppelnjak for such a honest, to the point and clear point of view for network engineer. At one point when Ivan said that "The best jobs are the ones that you don't apply to. The best jobs are job that are created for you because they want you." It hit me really hard and motivated me.
Automation will not replace the network. Automation will automate your boring tasks that are not challenging to do. Automation is something that can be used to do 1000’s of small tasks without any human error. However, big complex tasks or projects can’t be automated. So, less crappy tasks and more interesting projects? Also, there are different kinds of developers. Front-end and back-end developers. I would recommend for them to do the DevNet certs, because they will learn new modules within Python such as paramiko, netmiko. Don’t forget also that API’s of Cisco aren’t like the API’s of any application. Hence learning about the Cisco API’s of different products can be useful too.
THANKYOU SOOOOO MUCH FOR THIS INTERVIEW , REALLYY LIT MY HEART AND MY MIND .I LEFT CCNA HALWAY THRU , WAS IN DILEMMA REGARDING CARRER AND LOST .. THIS VIDEO BROUGHT A RAY OF HOPE IN ME ..AND SPECIALLY THE WAY IVAN SPOKE !!! I FELT LIKE MY DAD WAS TALKING .. SO MTIVATIONAL !! PLS UPLOAD MOREEE .. U JUST GOT A NEW SUBSCRIBER .THIS IS THE FIRST VIDEO I WATCHED OF YOUR CHANNEL THAT I STUMBLED ACROSS THIS DAY !!! GREAT VIDEO ... CLEARED MY DOUBTS ..AND MOTIVATED ME !!THANKYOU
Spot on! That's how I launched my career. I was hired when I was 15 or 16 writing code for the Apple II. Still in high school. And that kicked off my 40-year career as a software engineer. Just Do It!
Its all about value, show the work ethic, projects you have done at home or in the world. Showing the follow through and that your not scared to take on the next new thing.
Sir I downloaded your CCNA udemy course from torrent because I don't have enough money to buy the course. I like the you explain and especially the your accent. After that I watched your videos on RU-vid. You are like a mentor for me. Thank you
I don't agree ivan on many things in this video but respect his opinion, I'm a computer science student in the UK with a background in engineering but your content is always great david.
I have to seriously recommend one thing. Ivan needs to make some content that is just purely his philosophical perspectives on life. Davids videos have really propelled me in interest and guidance in more than just networking, I come from a Mikrotik background but have been working towards Cisco stuff more and more. Then this video came along and I felt like a student of a ancient monk, one that had all of the answers, and most of what you talk about, in relation to what David asks, also reaches many other areas of life and behaviors and discipline, well beyond just the networking parts. This video and the following one, was an actual profound moment where some serious life lessons and reflections were very much comprehended and relatable. Great job to both and looking forward to more content. David does a great job on finding people that can share their stories and insights and make even us nobodies relate and become more engaged and interested. KEEP IT UP :)
I believe that an engineer shouldn't be the best at anything, but shouldn't be caught off guard by anything. Yes, you may have an area of expertise like networking, but you should know at least a medium level of programming, cybersecurity and the rest of the stuff, and this means to be a good engineer in this domain, it will take you a minimum of 10 years, not just one year one certification, boom i am an engineer, the true engineering is being in the middle of every aspects of it, and learn new things every day, and somehow figure out a solution, the engineer must the solving stuff guy, and for that you really need to know, everything about anything.
Hi David, it is amazing the way you understand people who are wanting or already trying to get into this networking path. I really noticed all your interventions were about to guide your audience. Great interview.
Good interview, thanks for sharing ; I think if you understand how networks work and differents protocols, you can jump into another area easily like cloud computer studying some vendors like Azure or AWS. Python is not that hard to learn the basics ; and to interact with the networks API you don't need a vast knoledge in my humble opinion.
If you're working in a hospital, the nursing stations, emergency room etc., cannot function on wireless phones. The phones can be moved to IP from digital but they will always use phones. Secretaries will not be answering the phones for the multiple executives that they may be covering. The telephony comment is inaccurate to be sure.
It was a good interview. Especially the very last part impressed me. Being faithful to the basics is what I emphasize after working in this industry for over 20 years. In the current network environment where everything cannot be changed at once, only overlay technology is being emphasized, but the reality is that fewer and fewer people understand the basic technology of underlay.
The reason why experience trumps all, this is so true. Do I know everything, NO. Do I have 20 years experience in the field with actual wiring, switches, routers, terminating both ends of the cable and testing, programing sooo many brands of network equpment including Cisco and aka Meraki.., along with fixing computers software and hardware.. yes. That's what experience gives, can I say a degree means more than that, NO.. not even close. Learn or try by starting from working from the bottom. Yes it's not fun, but guess what you learn so much more. How to use tools, mount TV's, run wire in walls, just to name a few. Eventually, you'll be at a point where you are an assett to someone or some company, that's when you truly shine and make it a point to be there for them. Once that happnes, so long you learn people skills and keep their company running great, then you may be offered a job/a new job created for you as said in this video. Great video though, keep motivating everyone to learn!
I'm 25 years in ICT, 16 as an owner running a Cisco Engineering Shop. In my opinion, the Engineer needs to be both a very solid networking Person and a DEVOPS one as well.. They need to be a Generalist with a "knack" or natural inclination for one type of tech.... I have a couple of Interns, and they are on an A+ then Net+ course before they can even tackle any other cert....This is a wonderful conversation.
Yeh, there are so many technologies these days it is hard to know where to start. Do I start by getting my CCNA, or do I start by learning the CCNA material plus learning Python at the same time? I think I need to focus on getting my CCNA now and learning the fundamentals and worry about all the other stuff later. It is a bit confusing!
When he said we thought we were special and demigods and we are not that hit a nerve. I have worked with dozens upon dozens of networking engineers over the span of 20+ years and this was something that I always knew existed in various circles but never took the time to put it to words.
Ivan is a thoughtful gentleman, and I love all his ideas. The way he delivers is smart and practical. "And eventually every environment will get to a point where the network will be down. And who will troubleshoot that? The Python guys, the Cloud guys, or someone who took time and learned the fundamentals? " He doesn't say just a thought, it is a motivation.
Absolutely, Your guest is talking from an engineering perspective which is trying to build people with Design and innovation knowledge more than creating operators and technology smart users. CCNA certificate has survived all that years because of its network principles and IEEE standards contents.
The points Ivan makes are very familiar. I went through the cert route, without really spending sufficient time on the basics, only to have to circle back after I got my entry level job. Troubleshooting will expose your weaknesses very quickly. I'd also add that work ethic is a massive plus. You can teach skills, but not a personality or drive. I've worked with some terrible CCIE's who were just lazy and arrogant, but some wonderful ones too and wonderful Network + engineers. great info David, many thanks for the new folks.
Need more people like Ivan in this world. Unfortunately in my experience companies don’t show much respect to people with knowledge of fundamentals. Usually the common theme is do it fast and under budget so that managers look great and most importantly forget quality of work.
Great Interview but short! Would be great if We could give more details from Ivan's the directions the IT industry (networking in particular) are heading. Thank you, David!
Found this vid really inspirational. Studying BSc cybersecurity and am veering away more from sec into networking. Was wondering if it was a good idea or if it could be the wrong choice, but after watching this, esp last section, it's helped me make up my mind. Thanks!
Thid is one of the greatest network engineering videos I have watched. The issue with expert advice to beginners is the difficulty of simplifying stuff as one becomes more experienced. I get what is said and I totally agree with it, but I am not sure I would have got it when I was at the start of my career (or before I started). It would have been so abstract and so high-level. Beginners need a more structured guidance in my opinion. I appreciate the wealth of wisdom in this video, thanks.
So get CCNA or don’t bother????!? I’m currently studying for it right now but I’ll drop everything for what’s in demand right now LET ME KNOW!! I hear python and cloud are the wave
I’m no expert, but to me, networking will always be alive as long as we need internet connection. Automation will probably cap the number of networking engineers needed in a company, but the population always increases, which means more people and businesses will need internet connection. But the skill set needed to be a network engineer will also change. Apart from networking, they will also need to learn programming and automation.
This is a great video David. It's hard to overstate just how valuable Ivan's commentary or how relevant to aspiring 'Engineers' of all levels of experience this is. Thank you :)
I didn't understand what he was saying about VOIP. Is that from a network perspective as another application that we just take care of as far as configuration on the network? If so then I get it.
🔰 You should do both. I have (2) Associates Degrees in... 1) Electronics 2) Computers - I’ve made a very nice life for myself with the AS degrees along with my certifications... There’s many fields that utilize networks including biomedical, manufacturing, etc...You’ll be much better off having at least an Associate Degree, as most companies require a minimum of an AS.
Honestly I am clad you had uploaded this video. As a student in ComScie and a great percentage of the earlier generation group struggle to get a job there's so much I can put work on a build a brand for future references. Thank you a lot David.
