AoE4 DLC Summary & Review 

Which isn't a bad way to go. What better way to get information on how people will end up using one than by throwing out what you got and seeing what sticks?

The great thing is, even though they are "only variant" civs, they are so different they are more than aoe2 civs in how much they are different.

It’s not a bad idea, although I can understand why some people are upset. They’re essentially paying the devs to test something _for_ them. Doesn’t exactly show confidence for a game that already had a rough start.

@@Davtwan this dlc has 2+4 civs. And is only 15 dollars with campaign. This argument has no weight

I hope AoE 4 even gets another DLC

It's an embarrasement actually.

Former embarrassment, basically all issues at launch are gone and the competitive scene is bigger than ever@@HorseshitDetectionAgency

@@HorseshitDetectionAgency how?

@@HorseshitDetectionAgency how?

did you push your glasses onto your nose when you said that? @@HorseshitDetectionAgency

yeah the joan of arc thing seemed like a crackpot idea that was just made into it

The concept of landmarks and variation civs is the best compromise of aoe3 and c&c mechanics for some spice

I do wonder if with the Chinese Civ's having the various different dynasties as part of their core mechanics shot them in the foot regarding potential variants. Since if it wasn't for that each of these dynasties themselves would make a fairly good variant option.

​@zaleost They could have done a variant civ based on, Koxinga, the Chinese Pirate-King responsible for founding Taiwan.

Shoulda just use all the crusade factions and problem solved

This mechanic is borrowed from Stronghold 2 Where the Thief there looks like a villager for the opponent and can steal money from the Treasury.

I mean they are master ninjas. They are good at this

I wonder how sniping of landmarks with them will be viable, they are stealthy and have anti building ability, sounds like hard to stop.

They are more like a combination of spies and Tanya.

Now we need kennels and dogs!

How?

It's not underrated. AoE 2 is just 100 times better, that's all.

@@Hovezipwn aoe4 is more historically accurate

I think it has an audience (15k players is nothing to sneeze at), but "The next great RTS" people were hoping it would be AoE4 was not. I'm not talking about the Age community, but the RTS group that seemingly flocks to every new RTS thinking it'll be the "esport" SC2 was has ruined every future RTS since. I enjoyed it, I loved the attention the campaign gave out (which is about all I play RTS for these days) so I hope this does well and I might give it a look in a few weeks. Heck I even reinstalled it to play the rest of the campaign but than I just played Return to Rome (which is better than AoE2 imo, but we won't see more DLC like that)

​@@HistoricalWeapons your "historically accurate" went through the window the moment when Jeanne ride her steed with a bazooka killing hundreds of innocent villagers with holy wrath

They look nice indeed, the asymetrical civilization design however does not necessarely allow for more creativity or diversity. Its just a different design approach, aom did it many many years ago and all games in the franchise are highly diverse and creative at the top level.

​@@DukePegasusIF you are avarege joe playing video games aoe 2 civs comper to aoe 4 are just the same shit all over again look i have 700h on aoe 2 i was 1400 that isnt a lot but I know a bit and i can say aoe 4 civs are like rocket ships comper to aoe 2, by my humble opinion civs are GREAT why beacouse you have so many thiferent ways to play it compere to original and it isnt a just a upgrade you have a shit ton of down sides aswell

@@malylibi Im having a hard time trying to understand your response. But I suppose that I agree that for a new player these civs look a lot different than aoe2 civs, that's a result of the different design approach both developers used. I disagree on the other hand about the aoe4 civs allowing for more ways of playing, in fact I feel like having very unqiue civs with certain pros and cons often make for only a few ways of optimal play.

Chess VS Checkers. One has a greater variety of tools and the other one has mostly the same tools between all civs.

@@franciscomelendeze I guess thats a simplified but valid and good comparison :)

i saw the Jean D'arc movie and played the FGO one pretty sure u just describe her in the latter (in media)

​@@Vince120Dfgo didnt have much to do with the historical prototypes of badass half naked battle spirits that play key part in the story well, movies protagonists do neither, but fate kinda tell you straight about this. Human perception shifting appearance and abilities of the summoned dude and all that shit

Japanese macro is really wild

All this higher production value helps no one as it takes them longer to create content for and in the end does anyone really care that units speak differently each age? I'd much rather have less voice lines, no unique music in favor of a generic, very long soundtrack than all of this.

@@marcelo8405 And that's why you play AoE2, the beauty of the two games being so popular is that AoE2 is far more traditional as an RTS and AoE4 is more modern. Different people like different things, I for one love the immersion in brings and feel that AoE4 has a far less repetitive feel simply due to the artistic side of the experience. But of course, different strokes for different folks.

So modern, so modern that the units are ugly with modeling clay, so modern that the devs can't maintain coherence in the direction of the game: "we want aoe4 to be real so campaign will be more like a documentary", [the same devs ] "so take this joan d'arc Sub Civ that has a sword because she never used a sword in battle and she has magic too"

@kraftyevan not that modern considering AoE4 looks, sounds and plays worse than AoE3 which was released almost 2 decades ago

@@kraftyevan Nah, he's right. The development focus is placed in the wrong things with AoE4. I don't even find AoE4 more immersive. The UI is incredibly bland, the units and buildings have kitsch art, the details are missing.

You mean Retold, right? They didn't announce AoM DE and I missed it or something?

As far we know it's in development. No date in sight or how the process is going. But no doubt it's gonna be on Game Pass.

Still in development as far as i know. It's called "AoM Retold" though not DE. 🙂

@@WikiHL Yes. Retold.

If they makes an entirely new game worth of content, you can expect the game will come out in like 3-4 years from now or more. 😅 2 years from now would be 3 years in development and I don’t think they have a huge team for AOM.

Seems like having more variety between civs is a core design philosophy for AOE4. These variants are a compromise with player demands for more civs, but they still tried to keep them as varied as possible.

ayyubids are not a strict upgrade, they are lacking like 2 thirds of the abbasid tech tree, their Eco is WAAAAAAY worse and so its their infantry, they got better siege and their cavalry is more flexible but it's also worse in some circustances

I feel like it's less "couldn't decide" and more "Want to test them all". This gives them a chance to see how each approach is received and how balancing them worked out.

ORRRR, they wanted to fulfill different player fantasies with each civ and reach as many different player types as possible. Shocking I know.

Jeanne is so overtuned that it looks more and more like playing DOTA.

@@Shoord No it's more like playing Warcraft 3. Which, despite the hero mechanics, is still classified as an RTS.

Jean D'Arc is trash, I am not sure if I will get the expansion, looking. At that MOBA hero is cancer, is a feminism push

​@@diego2817including a historically accurate/real female character is a feminism push?

@@nightraven2975 yes, when the femenis protagonist is a God with magical powers, JeannDarc was never a warrior, never carry a weapon, she inspired troops only.

AoE 2's unique units work different as they don't replace regular units but instead are supposed to be.. unique which is why they're often locked behind a castle.

​@@FloosWorld_AoEYou're missing the point. Besides: Savar, Legionnary

@@camroth89 I get what you say. I said often, not always :p I'm aware that we've got a few UUs outside the castle such as Shrivamsha, Longboat, Missionary etc. but most of the time, they're made in the castle

@@FloosWorld_AoEOk, which has no bearing at all on my original comment.

@@camroth89 It's because he doesn't like the game. A subtle way of calling it cheap.

Not disagreeing with your overall point, but did your source for that info also give you the effect of all of their age up bonuses? Several of the things you mention are still present in a slightly different form. As a couple of examples, one of the culture wings lets advancing take 40% less time and costs 250 fewer resources, so the cheaper advancing is still there in a way, the economic growth wing going up to Age 3 gives you 8 free villagers, at least sort of comparable to fresh foodstuff, the trade wing gives you a unit called the atabeg that you can garrison in a building to increase trained unit HP by 20%, and they have a trade wing that works a little different than Abbasid trade bonuses but you end up in a similar spot as spice trade. Obviously you can't pick up every single wing in one game, but you also don't have to pay for any techs.

@@SpiritOfTheLaw yeah, i'm aware of the new age up options, but even when some effect are similar, they don't fully translate in a real game, beacuse Abbasid give you techs that last for all the game while Ayyubids are more of a one use effect, so Ayyubids get stronger power spikes than Abbasid and get them faster, while Abbasid Slowly ramp up throught the game for example, Abbasids have "Preservation of Knowledge" while Ayyubids have "Advancement". Preservation of Knorledge makes so once they research it for the rest of the game All techs and Age ups are 20% cheaper; while "Advancement" give you a Discount just for one of your Age ups and make you to age up faster, so is more of a one use thing that also block you of using the other Culture Wing Age up while Preservation of Knowledge just ramp up across the game and still allow you to benefit from the other Culture wing bonuses. similar thing with Economic Growth, on a vacuum the free 3/8/10 free vills is a very powerfull eco bonus, but you have to chose when to use it, because if you use it before imperial age then you don't get the extra 10% faster gather bonus, and anyway, in the short term 8 free vills will be outscaled by all the other eco beneffit that abbasid gets, it's not only the discount of fresh foodstuff but the cheaper TCs, the faster working farmers and the resources laster longer of improved proccesing. similar thing with the Atabeg when advancing with Advisors with the Ayyubids, they may grant 20% extra HP to the units trained on the building they are garrisoned, but you have a limited number of atabeg while military campus will affect all your infantry, and also you will get the extra attack speed for your arcers because you don't have to choose between one or the other Ayyubids feel like a more Agresive civ than Abbasid with bonuses that give you an instant effect at no cost but all of them have an oportunity cost attached to them; going Economic Growth in Feudal will give me 3 extra vills instantly, but that will be outscaled in the long term by the abbasid bonuses and also remove the ability to use industry later, while going eco wing with the abbasid in feudal allow me to have Fertile Cresent Now but i will also get the other tech later. the filosofy of being a faster civ also is reflected on their Army, with Ayyubids having better Cavalry options thanks to the versatility of the Desert Ridder, while abbasid focus more on a slower army of infantry units with more HP, armor and faster attacking archers

For somebody who plays regularly or have a bit of experience with aoe4 it's clear that these 2 civs are totally different. Let's accept SpiritofTheLaw opinion too... He is from a game that doesn't have that amount of uniqueness like aoe4... For him ayubbids=abba and for aoe4 players are different civs

​@@norbertcsiszer8612It's just funny because Abbasids and Ayyubids are probably more different than any 2 AoE2 civs are from each other ha.

@@camroth89 That's all I can ever think.

Rare and authentic Byzantine olive oil produced nowhere else in those times... I don't know how the swords-for-hire used olive oil besides adding flavour to their salads, sautéing and frying foods, mixing it in cauldrons of defensive boiling oil, having masseurs apply it on their bodies...

Because it's to die for!

Its a luxury product. Basically shitton of money in a portable form. Its not really easy to bring your salary home when you are high payed mercenary and this is pretty heavy amount of gold, while barrel of oil can worth the same yet weight less. Althrough mercenary must be sure that he can sell that oil for a good price at home, so no Conans-Barbarians for oil

I would like to be able to play C&C Generals again

@@VdWck Afaik EA still sells the *The First Decade* collection on EA App (formerly known as Origin) which should include Generals

AoE 4 devs were extra lazy with at least knowing how real trajectories look.

@@cdgncgn Its a design choice

@@tjember_ren1729 well, arrows shooting above target, then going 90 degrees downward looks like laziness to me. Even if they were guided, it looks like not enough effort.

@@tjember_ren1729 Well it wasn't by mistake lol. But the design choice had the following reason: subpar engine with no physics (thank Relic) and cheaper to develop. Show me a single person who doesn't love seeing the spears and arrows miss and stick into the ground? That's immersive af! This is a big downgrade.

@@cdgncgn it's literally a "stat" setting you can turn off with the mod editor by setting the field to a %

It sounds fun to try, if anything it reminds me of Warcraft 3 heroes rather than something like heroes of might and magic or something

Depends on the AoE 2 DLC/Expansion ;) Sultans Ascent might have more content than Mountain Royals but it still needs to beat Conquerors and Forgotten

He gave it a B+, I think that was pretty fair. Maybe it ended on a bit of a sour note but I think that the overall preview was positive and he said this is exactly what AoE4 needs.

We must not have watched the same video. This video was well researched and well produced, super informative with some thoughtful opinions. On par for SotL. A bit summarized, but we can look forward to more in depth content from Age of Noob and others.

Spirit made quite possibly the most objective review one can make, there was no bias, he's simply pointing out areas that could use some improvement where it makes sense to, praises what is decent and comments on more devisive parts of the dlc, all other creators i checked on are really biased one way or another, or downright neglecting certain things while overemphasising others

@@Mythic1560 I agree that SotL was fair. All I said is that he obviously isn't into it. AoE4 was a buggy mess the last time he did any video about it. Now it's freaking good (and the version he got to play has even more improvements that the public hasnÄ't played with yet, like the improved wall system. A fair review doesn't have to mention any of this, but if he liked the game, there would be no reason not to.

@@mariomcp Giving it B+ is fair? What does he give AoE2 DLC with 2 reskins and a scenario mission for the same price point?

Like what? I never played it.

Подскажи пожалуйста какие? Я играл только в оригинальный lotr 2.

​@JWonn in this dlc example the abyuid desert raider is a goblin spider rider. Joan plays like a bfme hero but is more accurate to say is a wc3 hero. Banner dudes in idea are there too but banner guys in bfme respawn lost squad members than provide buffs to an army.

Joan reminds me of the AoE 3 explorer

@zonetropper Being able to switch between melee and ranged mode is something that was originally planned for Samurai in AoE2 but was scrapped, though the feature would return when Ratha were introduced. In AoE3 all gunpowder infantry & gunpowder cavalry can switch between ranged and melee modes. Gascenya (sp?) Also have this ability. As for Japanese Banner Units, the most obvious inspiration for this would be Indian Mansabdar Units in AoE3, which function exactly the same way.

The most overrated one probably

Nice point. And perhaps that derived from C&C Generals: Zero Hour - a system weirdly missing from the base game, despite the naming. Really makes you question probable pressure from EA to hit a release date. It would explain the vapid feeling campaigns.

Lol

ChillyEmpire, Age of Noob, Drongo, BeastqtSC2, etc. giving the Relic Ent-made game attention and publicity, and perhaps you should have the same initiative as them

@@royasturias1784 How am i gonna help the game with 0 people that know about me, watch me, or want to watch me. I am mediocre at the game, analysts like Spirit of the Law or Age Of Noob take more than good enough care of that stuff.

Don't get too excited, it's only a B+.

@@andreicristian9575 ce b+ visezi boss ?

@@stancastan5926 Ai impresia ca daca sunt din Romania amandoi vorbim pakistaneza? Uita-te la videoclip, si cauta in DEX definitia cuvantului "sarcasm".

They make it easier to main multiple civs, are faster to develop, and similar to AoE2 civs in a way, with "unit reskins" as unique units.

He covered every Age game so far, so doesn't seem too unlikely

I mean, you're paying them for Byzantines, Japnese and maybe Ayyubids and Zhu Xi's, 15$ is a fair price for the quality delivered there. Order of the dragon seems like a nice feature for beginners/people who struggle with RTS, as you need less micromanagement for them. Not for everyone butnothing wrong with that. Only Jeanne-D'arc seems trluy expeirmental but I mean... No one's forcing you to play it. They already gave you your money's worth the the other four.

That's a weird way of looking at it. These civ variants are incredibly unique and will be great for single player. The French one is almost like playing a Moba. The HRE one with few but powerful units feeds a different type of player fantasy. The Chinese one is like playing Zerg with the flexibility Imperial Officials give you. Not to mention variants making it easier to main multiple civs by having very similar mechanics as compared to the main civs that are all very different. So you're not paying them to test anything, you're getting a lot of varied and interesting play styles for very cheap.

Dude. It's not a realistic game.

​​@@PurpleWarlockOh bullshit. It's set in the real world, in a real time frame, using real nations, real unit names, real technologies. It has campaigns which are about real people and conflicts, using documentary style cutscenes. They advertise it as having "historical battles", they constantly refer to the real life achievements of civilizations. "The past is prologue as you are immersed in a rich historical setting..." - straight from steam. Sorry, I'm really tired of people pretending that games that are showcasing history don't need to be realistic. If you don't want to make a realistic game, don't market it as real history, or better yet, don't set it in the real world.

@@PurpleWarlock Just imagine they would do that with Mahatma Gandhi or Mother Teresa instead. It is immersion breaking stuff and totally not OK.

@@thomasdemetz6145 I'm catholic. What do you want me to do? Tell the Pope or the King of France what's happening?

@@simpsondr12 They turned into a explorer from AoE 3. Maybe more Warcraft 3 super unit. They just take some liberties.

I guess they add them later, they just didn't managed to finish them yet

I can bet on Crusader variant civ

Short summary: - At AoE 4's release, some AoE 2 fans acted needlessly stupid and aggresive towards AoE 4 and its players - Meanwhile, things have flipped a bit and AoE 4 fans are acting in the same stupid way and there's a common theme of justifying AoE 4's existence by saying it's "more unique" than AoE 2 (and no, I don't mean that negative, that's just an observation I made)

@@FloosWorld_AoE I agree. The arguments that I hear are also all the same. Arguments of AoE4 players are always Aoe2 has old graphics, cis are all too similar, not that historically accurate. On the other hand AoE2 fans always say about AoE4 that the campaigns are neglected, too cartoonish graphics, too little civs. (Any other arguments I forgot?) So it seems to me that every game has its own niche attracting its own niche players. No reason to act like a child and hate on the other game. We are all one big AoE family after all ;)

@@Noobslayer90 Yup, pretty much. I think AoE 2 and 4 players also often controversially discuss arrow dodging as projectiles in AoE 4 are homing.

@@FloosWorld_AoE But can you blame them when their favorite players were switching camps?

@@andreicristian9575 Well, they didn't switch at all because they were still playing AoE 2 at that time. They're also Content Creators so they want to check out the new thing. I assume Viper playing some AoM as well once Retold is out.

You'd be surprised how many things were more valuable than gold in the past. Tea being one of them.

Joan becoming mounted archer (or even canoneer?) sounds dumb and fun 😂 i'm interested

Are people honestly getting upset about B+ which is btw not a bad grade?

The Age series is sadly no stranger to campaign only civs. They already went that route in AoE 3's campaigns.

You'd be surprised how deep some mechanics in AoE 2 are.

@@FloosWorld_AoE yeah, I played Aoe 2 a lot, esp since the Definitive Edition. Even if new DLC keeps coming, I feel the mechanics of the game have been “solved”. The interests are still there but not exciting anymore (for me). Aoe4 fills this gap and I think sky is the limit to experiment with this game.

He will focus on the game that gives him more views, as the AoE2 scene is larger than the AoE4 scene.

If they reintroduce melee weapons for archers when they get hit by melee weapon, that would be quite something. Before AoE4 release it was there, I think campaign had it still.

@@rishisharma959 right now yes and that makes sense.

it is a melee range hand cannon. If she is ranged, I guess longer range.

@@cdgncgn rpg = role playing game Was seeing that if you’re just micromanaging Joan and giving her OP stat upgrades and new weapons, that just sounds like Dota or Leage of Legends

​@@kevinxu3892Warcraft 3* RTS aesthetes calling all rpg elements "dota/lol things" are cancer

Modern game design. You just look at what others did and add it to your own game, hope for the best.

@@AaronRohan while it sounds unrealistic it's true that in he had to be carried around as his leprosy had gotten too severe but continued to lead until his death. If he was in the game as a civ I would imagine he would be leaning more towards a strictly support role.

Novgorod. Rus must receive Novgorod as alt civ, with focus on trade, sea and maybe some raider/outlaw units. Maybe bounty busting gold production instead of food. Maybe ability to refund some pricey upgrades/change between several global buffs, as mechanic based on fact that Novgorod Veche (meeting of people to vote about important questions) and Boyars are called and expelled Princes as they like, based on their performance as rulers and military leaders, which is pretty unique for that time

This doesn't make any sense.

@@FloosWorld_AoE Makes perfect sense to me. What's the issue for you?

@@elliejohnson2786 Spirit is a Age content creator. Obviously he covers AoE 2 the most but previously covered AoE 1, 3 and 4 as well.

It's all part of the conspiracy.

End version with the cannpn looks ... epic. In both ways.

AoE3 explorers and treasure camps with guardians sounds like AoE doing Warcraft.