issuanceexpress.com/aptera-re... Join Tim Vaughan for an exciting update on Aptera's battery module validation. Discover the unique elements of our battery design and the successful results from rigorous lifecycle testing.
@@Okurka. Lets see... One single 3 minute and 33 second video against a months work by multiple teams equals more effort into videos than making a vehicle? You do understand how insane that makes you sound when you make way off base assertions like that. Hopefully they are recording the highlights of all the work their parallel teams have been doing over the past month so they can start dropping more frequent updates on their progress to better keep everyone up to date. Best!
@@Okurka. Three test vehicle build in 2021, several more component test vehicles built between 2022 and 2023 including Beta, Gama, Delta vehicles and now a production intent vehicle with comparatively few videos publicly documenting the entire concept, development and production process. By no stretch of the imagination does a paltry 131 (mostly short) videos cover the process of bringing this type of vehicle to market. Three or so shorts documenting progress every month for three years compared to endless hours of R&D, prototyping etc is not an excessive amount of video. You start today trying to do similar and lets see where you are in three years. Best!
Not many people understand the level of scrutiny that goes into building a road worthy EV. I appreciate and understand the level of detail that everyone goes through to bring a safe and reliable mode of transportation that will be around for years. Look what GM did with the Chevy Bolt.... battery recalls are sinking them into the ground over one stupid little mistake. I want Aptera to be around for generations to come and love where they're going! Good job, Aptera! Keep it the excellent work, and I look forward to seeing this finely crafted vehicle on the roads soon!
Wasn't that the battery manufacturer and GM passed the bill on to them for the replacement packs? I agree in that I hope Aptera can maintain proper quality control as a lot of this goes from one offs in the lab to mass production.
@@Okurka. Keep quoting him and in a few years, your family & friends will be worshiping you too for your extraordinary vision…. or bugging you for lottery picks, fantasy league draft picks, etc. 😀
Thanks for the update, I wish other companies kept us as well informed as you guys do in your various interviews with content creators and tutorials like this.
Aptera's openness and right to repair means there is a non zero possibility you eventually will. For example, if someone finally creates an affordable supercapacitor in future, there could be an upgrade path. These vehicles could potentially keep going for 50+ years, as long as people keep caring about them.
Awesome stuff! Can you make a video like this for the motors? Or for that matter 3 to 4 minute videos on each major component of the Aptera would be Awesome. Go Aptera!
@Aptera I am also very curious on the motors and what happens if you need to replace one in case of some level of accident. What’s that look like? What’s the pricing if my wheel is all messed up and it needs to be replaced? How close to price of a regular new wheel are replacement hub motors?How “durable” are hub motors in comparison to regular wheels? I would hope more durable. Hub motors are such a new concept for me that I have fears uncertainty and doubts over these motors. I’m very interested in hearing more about the plan and construction and durability. Thanks for being so upfront and here’s to a brighter greener future!
@@RomanChaar "they are going with over the shelf motors" You've made a claim, "They are going with over the shelf motors.", but provided no evidence to support it. Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. So... Is this a guess on your part or do you have a source of information that can be verified? Can you back up your claim with evidence? Can let us know your source so we can verify it?
I found the post you were referring to and don't like the news of "off the shelf" but it sounds like we will be getting more information soon. Hopefully its good news. I also don't intend to question anyone character. But as you probably know there are lots of grifters and people who are all negative the world is falling. So I try my best to filter out the honest posters and the grifters. I appreciate your response and confirmation.
@@RomanChaar Fairburne is a name I came up with as a child playing D&D about 40 years ago, a human paladin. The first time I remember using it was for a game called Pools of Radiance. I've been using it every since. 69 oddly enough has been my employee number for more then 20 years. Hence the name.
Thank you Aptera and Tim for this battery validation footage and information, it's fantastic to see. I used to work for a test laboratory testing window and door products.... some of this involved accelerated weathering with similar characteristics, all to ASTM test methods and specs. As the only employee with electronics background, I also built quite a bit of our custom test equipment and industrial controls.
over 400miles charge in 1hour, sounds great! So going down to 20% charging to 80% which is 60% will take about half an hour. That is plenty of time for a restroom/food break on a road trip
I appreciate the fact that the technical videos are informative but kept “dumbed” down so us less informed folk can understand. I can see where this could’ve went down Geekville road but did not. Loving the progress Aptera.
Great to see this important work being done to ensure that components last a good lifetime. Looks like a very solid battery setup and cooling design. I still hope once aptera is in production they will put R&D effort toward an even more affordable/greener LFP or sodium variant but it looks like even the initial NMC 811 batteries should last 12-20 years. Given the extreme vehicle efficiency 1C (400 mph) charging is on par with any Tesla (which need 2.5C average to achieve the same). Given the relatively low C rate and power needs, I do wonder if Aptera may be able to sustain near its max charge rate for longer than other EVs.
That is awsome!.. Will the pack validation plan include corrosion resistance tests? and humidity infiltrations test ( not IPXX but ) ? These are very critical to make sure the battery will not be affected by humidity due to pressure changes, temperature changes, condensations etc.
@@manoman0 probabky but having a video also talking about that would be important. Vibration test does not make alot of EV battery deffect.. but corrosion DOES!
Hi Aptera, I'd prefer to use Aptera with LFP cells someday (those new gen 3 LiFePO4 cells with higher energy density, ability to charge in freezing temperatures and 4C+ charging speed) - would it be possible in future to swap / change the cells without replacing BMS and other systems?
Take note....we want to see 500000 mile testing results. So 12 more days of testing please. Also, we need some information on future interchangeability and 3rd party pop and swap compatability. Will the current interface be open sourced so we can mount solid state in 5 years?
What if the car gets half submerged under the water, are the battery and electrical systems sealed/waterproofed in some way? Miami just went through major sets of floods with many cars damaged
There is no confusion... if you understand that there will be in-wheel motors, then all is good. If you wish to worry every detail as if this company is overlooking something... then of course!
@@GullWingInnMoclips Then tell me who is making the hub motors and where I can get the specs on them. Oh wait, you can't because they won't tell us what is going on.
@@JoeBManco Well child... perhaps you will learn to wait and see and then you will be less stressed over such inconsequential concerns and realize how whiny you sounded before? All part of adulting. You should try it.
@@JoeBManco Your concerns are as petty as your ankle-biting. Wait and see, you may be shocked to find out there was NO cause for concern on your part... and then you can go on to the next bit of goofy-ass ankle-biting... since this faux-problem will have been addressed.
@@GullWingInnMoclips Listen up child. For certain I am not going to take advise from some nobody on the internet, especially you. All I did is express a f u c k i n g concern.
Is it possible to install these battery cells without majority being human work? -> Heavy equipment over his shoulder and cell placement doesn't look efficient in first half of this video.. ps: congrats on your early validation here by the way, SUPER AWESOME, keep it UP 🎉
We are simply hand-building modules for the initial PI vehicles. The battery assembly will be mostly automated by our partner CTNS for the production runs.
Oh the that demo unit is a module of a larger pack. I was skeptical about the pack's capacity because i misunderstood that the module was the entire pack. Having 5 or 6 modules makes a lot more sense.
That’s really great! The only thing I found odd was the way he was using a calk gun to apply adhesive manually and then placing each cell inside, you could tell some of them were crooked. Maybe a better process could be implemented to apply a precise amount of glue and position the cells perfectly. The other thing is the thermal management of the battey, no mention was made on how it is hooked up if it is coolant based or forced air. With NMC batteries you really have to watch the temperature and have a robust way of cooling the cells.
Here's my take. I actually don't mind Aptera's constant delays. By the time this car comes out, I can replace my car with an Aptera. I can wait. I mean it. No sarcasm. All well. Guys, take your time. Better make it a good product, get those bugs out. For me that's worth the wait.
Are you guys planning on testing that same 100k mile battery module up to 200k or 300k simulated miles? I suspect if there was going to be an issue, it would happen in the first 100k miles, but considering how long these bodies could last, it might be worthwhile to simulate 200 or 300k miles
NMC Batteries have some rules for longevity. -1- Don’t store the car’s battery at 100% charge, especially when it’s hot outside. -2- Don’t wait to recharge the battery until it’s low. -3- Don’t regularly charge to 100%. How is the Aptera BMS supporting the owner to observe these guidelines?
@@justinw1765 Yes. There are no perfect battery choices. Always a trade off with technology. The article I read specifically for NMC Batteries recommended 80% max charge. Recharge at 60%. Long term idle sitting time at 30%.
What is the white fuzz seen during testing? Also - thermals during peak charge and discharge will need to be mitigated by the bottom mounted heat exchanger. This is making minimal contact with each cell - just the diameter of each cell base . The heat radiates outward in the thermal axis. Isn't this why Tesla and Rivian stepped up the thermal management to flow coolant around the vertical sides of the cells and also pack the thing in thermally conductive goop to keep them from overheating? And the cells in the middle of the pack will experience heat buildup from the neighboring cells. Curious how you handle that.
Anode layers are only in contact at the cell base, so cooling during discharge is more effective through the base, all else being equal. Cooling via the sides can allow for more surface area like you say, and slightly more balanced thermal management during charge vs discharge. But that requires more material & complexity, ultimately giving lower energy density per module. There is a minimum size for the side cooling serpentine channel plus electrical insulation before manufacturing is impractical, so with the Aptera's relatively small battery & low thermal load, any thermal management advantages would be outweighed by the loss of cells. If Aptera can achieve sufficient thermal management via the base, it's a win for efficiency on multiple fronts. PS; Re heat buildup from neighbouring cells. Most of the heat is transferred through the top and bottom of the cells, because that's where the anode and cathode layers terminate. So there's minimal load from neighbouring cells, providing the cooling system has sufficient capacity to move heat away. Before the heat reaches the sides, so-to-speak. During charging is a bit different (more heat at the top of the cells.), but Aptera's peak discharge will be much higher than the 50kw charge they've spec'd for launch. FYI current Rivian models use base cooling only (a cold-plate sandwiched between two stacks of cells, with one stack "upside down".). The goop is just a structural foam to keep everything tight.
As the cells become more energy dense I wonder if alters will just give us more battery capacity or start to lower cell count. An example is EVE who they initially signed an MOU with, has new cells that are around 15 percent more energy dense for 2170 form factor then the ones alters tested with. If they used those cells the pack could be around 49 kWh.
With the high efficiency of the Aptera, I would prefer an LFP chemistry. Safer from fires, and they have the ability to regularly charge to a higher state of charge. Cheaper too!
The extra weight in this case negates the efficiency of the respective battery type. Chris Anthony understands LFP batteries, and co-founded a company that is now public and sells them.
I wish I had thought of the following question to ask the last question and answer round: "In the unlikely case you need to be towed up on a flatbed (I assume that would be required instead of a regular tow truck), where do you hook the Aptera up in front?
LOVE these technical Updates! That modulelooks AWESOME! 44kwhr pack,, so does that mean 40KWHR usable or 42kwhr useable?? Cause 42kwhr useable would imply 420mile range. :-)
One of the problems I have heard with other EVs is that if the battery module is damaged in a crash, the entire car becomes unsalvageable. Will the battery units be easy to replace in the Aptera?
No. The higjer range models will be using taller battery cells that still will fit into the same space dedicated to the battery modules. The lowest range model on the other hand will use less modules.
@charangohabsburg1 I th8nk I read the the 250 mile models will use 2170 cells, like the 400 mile model, but just populate every other row in the midules..
I appreciate how rugged and robust the battery module is, but I am curious if any thought has been put into the end of life for such a pack? I'm assuming disassembling the pack is a nonstarter given the epoxy and welding?
@@Okurka. Yeah, they have shown some limited details about the ease of certain repairs which is why I'm particularly interested about the battery after setting this video. I feel like repair can be the driving factor in design or an afterthought. A lot of vehicles treat repair as an afterthought or even intentionally stymie repair. I feel that Aptera has generally shown more consideration here, but I would like to see more details about that. Right to repair and product lifecycle considerations.
Chris Anthony was asked a while back about upgrading better packs to increase range. He said that while it's theoretically possible to swap out a battery pack for a larger one that it would be more complicated than that because you would also need to adjust cooling and heating and reprogram the BMS etc. Short answer, if you intend to change from the original battery pack it's probably going to be easier to just buy a new Aptera with the battery you want. As for repairing/replacing like for like batteries, that's probably doable but because of how it is mounted inside the body I suspect it'll be a huge pain. That said! The battery packs should easily last 400k and by then most people will be ready to retire the vehicle regardless.
Currently, LFP cells have about 30% less power density. I've read that there are 2170 LFP cells available. And although I'm sure it is not as simple as just switching to them, a fully populated pack with 2170 LFP cells would be a ~280 mile pack vs the ~400 mile pack with NMC cells.
Good stuff! A charge rate of "well above 400 miles per hour" on the Launch Edition of 400 mile range at 10 miles/kWh means at least a 40 KW average charging power or 1 C. Did I get that math right? Obviously the BMS will slow down the charging near the end of the charging curve, but even if you add 200 miles in 30 minutes or 100 miles in 15 minutes, that's quite road trip worthy.
If the batteries are stored in the tray, how do you draw heat away if there’s no contact with the batteries? The last I heard was that the belly pan was scraped for a more traditional way of cooling.
Most of those instances had no real cooling system. Aptera is using an antifreeze cooling loop in a base plate of the battery case, and careful monitoring through control boards.
