I have ridden and driven one of the Aptera prototypes, screeching around the corners with Chris McCann easily demonstrated with a wide wheel base, low weight that this is one of the most stable vehicles I have ever been in.
@@billsmith5960 You are right. It is completely different, but better for handling. The central motor means less unsprung weight. And the carbon fiber tub and steel reinforcement means an even more solid body. The early prototypes showed that the Aptera passed the Moose test with ease. And now the Aptera will handle even better.
@@deanmcmanis9398 Nope, the carbon body is not structural anymore. Only he aluminium frame, where the plastic panels are glued on. The moose test was a fake. See the tracks in the lawn from previous tries that went bad. The aptera motorcycle handles quite bad.
Geeez! How many different ways can you say "reverse three wheeler"? This video could have been half as long. I appreciate you taking time to make this video and I love the Aptera. I'll watch more of your videos when they're not so repetitive.
@@SpectrumOutlet Hi Spectrum Outlet. Seriously, you annoy your viewers and won't get return viewers when you stretch out thin content and make a repetitive video. Just offering a suggestion for boosting engagement... :-) BHC
I haven't seen a single real world result done by set standards. Instead, I see claims of what it could do. With Aptera constantly changing the design, I have no idea how they could keep making the same claims until they actually test the real product.
It would be sub-par in a snowy environment because the roads tend to have a parallel set of tracks that stay clear of snow due to all the drivers staying in the same ruts as other drivers. The Aptera, on the other hand, will drag its middle rear wheel through all the snow that accumulated in the middle of the road.
Sure, any trike is sub-par in the snow. I imagine that it's better having the steering bits in the ruts rather than a single front wheel in the center snow, though. It's also better to have a front-wheel drive tadpole than a rear-wheel drive one.
Yes. I used to be a mailman and drove the LLV (they are still in use). The rear wheels are wider than the front so whenever you had to drive through snow, you were having to make two paths. It was almost impossible to deliver mail on a snow covered court as the damned things would constantly get stuck when trying to turn. As for the Aptera, think of all the times you straddle an object or pothole with your 4 wheel vehicle. With an Aptera, there's a good chance you'll hit the object with the rear wheel. The Aptera's front wheels are set very far apart so that might be a consideration if you plan to park it in a garage with another vehicle. I think a 4 wheel model would be a good idea. It would give you more room for storage in the back and be more stable. Despite all that, I hope I'll start seeing them on the road some day. ha! I've been saying that for years!
@@herbertlaughlin2644 - Yet I never see a motorcycle or a three wheeler out in the snow. Maybe there might be the one or two die hard riders but not the norm. I want to see the Aptera driving through upstate NY in the winter. If it's a good as they say, then the results will speak for themselves.
@@billsmith5960 The only motorcycle you really can use in ice and snow is a motorcycle with sidecar. There you can use the uneven weight distribution to your advance. Neverthelessa 4WD is still better in these conditions.
The Aptera has a low center of gravity, especially near the center of the vehicle, which is crucial for stability. Most cars aim to keep the center of gravity as close to the middle as possible to avoid instability, much like a finger spinner. The number of wheels isn't as important as the size of the vehicle's base-while 4-wheel cars tend to have a wider base, the Aptera’s design compensates for this with its elongated and wide frame. It might not look big due to the 2-door configuration, but it’s not a small car like the Citroën Ami, which despite having 4 wheels, can still be prone to tipping. The Aptera is the first properly sized 3-wheeled car benefiting from the low center of gravity common in EVs, so we can’t base conclusions on past 3-wheelers. Plus, it’s not a sports car-its design focuses primarily on efficiency.
Vanderhall’s Edison 2 and Santarosa took a much more proactive approach to getting the CG of an EV 3-wheeler further forward for an improved safety factor. You want to wait for a single-driver test of the Aptera with it loaded to capacity per what they’ll be claiming.
If you lack one of the rear guiding wheels, you get half of the dynamic stability. Base does not matter, if the rear wheel loses traction. It is dynamic, not static.
All things being equal the roll stability of a three wheeler, even a three wheeler in a tadpole configuration is less than a four wheeler. That’s because the roll axis in a four wheeler is down the center line as compared to a roll axis between the center (rear) wheel and the inside wheel of a three wheeler. The Aptera featured in the videos performing the Moose Test incredibly well is using the Apter in-wheel motors which are capable of torque vectoring. What this means is a computer looks at Mu, the friction and the slip angle about 100 times a second and adjusts the speed and torque produced by each in-wheel motor to optimize stability and traction. This is particularly important for high speed evasive maneuvers where g loads shift from side to side rapidly. The question I have is now that Aptera is moving away from in-wheel motors is it even possible to retain evasive stability even close to in-wheel motors with a traditional single motor open axle intended for low cost, low performance EVs?
All things being equal a reverse trike is more stable then a four wheel vehicle. ...Anecdotal but...I can't remember ever seeing a Morgan 3 wheeler, or T-Rex, Slingshot, or Grinnall ever roll over. A quick search of the internet, there seems to be no cases or pictures of one rolled either. 5th gear tried drifting a Morgan and after going off road and then coming back onto the pavement managed to rock it up onto one front wheel, but it righted itself. (It's a good video to see the weight transfer) And Tiff wasn't even wearing a helmet which the show and him wouldn't have done if there was a danger of it.
Google Polaris Slingshot rollover. You’ll fine a slalom test rollover, right turn, driver-only, with stability control turned off. And others… I have a Vanderhall which I trust more, even though it has a narrower front track, because of its more forward CG relative to “the triangle”. Its transverse engine is completely in front of the C/L of the front wheels, and it’s FWD. Vs. Polaris inline RWD.
That moose test was a joke. Go watch the video and even look at the pic on the Aptera website. The picture shows a huge amount of opposite lock for steering input. No regular person can do that but a racecar driver with good car control can cover up lots of faults. Want to know why that happened? Look at the contact patch of the rear tire. Only about 10% is touching the pavement. No amount of torque vectoring can fix that.
The Aptera moose test went quiet badly several times, see the tracks on the grass from previous tests. And no real world data was delivered. In case of an accident the front outrigger wheel is the first thing to tear apart. Where do you think is the roll axis then? Which leads to what? Right, the body ends upside down, and you cannot escape because the doors do not open. a deathtrap in case of an accident.
Interesting discussion of design features intended to produce stability and rollover resistance, however: real world specifications for acceptable cornering G forces and the tip over threshold would be more reassuring.
Not really worried about it flipping but fishtailing might be an issue. All the weight is up front and there's just one rear tire. Even pickups like to swap ends and they've got two tires back there. How is one tire less likely to fishtail? Looks like it would function like a skid.
@@charlesbeane8795 you’ve got a point. I grew up on pickups and had my share of spin-outs on ice. Those trucks didn’t have instant torque, smart sensing, or independent braking. I hope the Aptera does.
Pickups fishtail because the lightly laded rear wheels are the drive wheels, and putting a lot of power through them causes them to lose lateral traction. AWD pickups don't have this problem to the same degree. Aptera is either front wheel drive or possibly in the future, all wheel drive. There will be sensors which cut power to any wheel that begins to slip laterally.
@@robertkirchner7981 Yes but in a fishtail the rear wheel is the one slipping and it is not powered so you can't cut the power to it. I suppose if you apply brakes it would drag the rear end back to true. It's gonna eat that rear tire up quick.
My understanding is that these will be released (at some point) close to $40K. At some point you have to weigh between practicality (only 2 people and no real storage), safety (can only use on clear no snow or heavy rain, and can't be very safe compared to typical cars in crash), and saving a little on costs of running a normal EV car. Also, I can't imagine going on any longer trips with this, but daily use is OK. What would it save a typical driver? Possibly $1000 a year at the most in energy costs? Likely quite a bit less?
I wouldn't be driving an M1 Abrams during a hurricane. If it can level buildings, no vehicle is safe. Plus, if you're buying cars based on their hurricane performance, maybe move to a different part of the country.
Not sure why you keep calling it an SUV. It's not an SUV. It's an autocycle. The reason Aptera is stable, whereas the opening three wheeler design was not, is simple. It's the difference between a delta trike (one wheel in front), and a tadpole trike (two wheels in front). Tadpole trikes are vastly more stable than deltas, as most momentum translation happens through the front wheels, and a tadpole is just as stable in this regard as a four wheeler. Additionally, the fact it has such a wide track, makes it even more stable, as well as its low center of gravity. The vehicle should have zero stability problems.
a 4 wheeler needs to be a real car with all necessary safety features. A motorcycle is cheaper to develop and to build, as it does not have to conform to any safety standards necessary for a car.
Take the Aptera Beta test with a grain of salt as they added a weight stack, visible in the video, on each side of the radiator ahead of the front wheels. Likely 300 lbs. in a short-nosed vehicle, not representing the equivalent of anything that will be there in the production vehicle. Next, we know nothing about the batttery pack used, size, or where it was in the vehicle. Next, worst case is driver-only accelerating out of a tight right turn. Next, of course you need: A real production vehicle tested per claims. Critically, they have stated a 500 lb. capacity. So I think we want to see a 200 lb. driver-only, 300 lbs. in the cargo area, run through a slalom or the moose test. Things against the Aptera: Short nose; “skateboard” pack mentality (vs. pack up front like Vanderhall Santarossa), fuselage shape that puts the pack up higher than a flat-bottomed vehicle, higher than typical driver position-same reason, Silverado-width console that has driver further from C/L of vehicle, customer-variable loading conditions. A vehicle’s “rollover axis” is around a line drawn between the outer 2 contact patches, whether 3 or 4-wheeled. It rolls when the vector from the center of mass (of the whole deal including the driver, whose CG is approx. @ the hip) falls outboard of that axis. So 3 vs. 4 wheels, it’s about that vector and that line, at the end of the day. I feel way more confident in my Vanderhall on dry pavement vs my Jeep JLU, aka “the Stage Coach”. That being said, I would NEVER put the Vanderhall on a track because of what would happen in a runoff area, whereas I have total confidence in my Ariel Atom. 2, 3, and 4-wheeled vehicles each have their place, all obey the laws of physics.
Sorry, but the dynamic stability of the Aptera three wheeler is delivered by the rear wheel, not the front wheel. And as there is just one instead of two on a real car, the dynamic stability is just half of that of a real car.
I invented the reverse trike conversion system for motorcycles and the big advantage of having this layout is superior handling, stability and ride quality. Aptera is defiantly on the right track
I'm glad you're here. You can give an informed opinion. If you were to hang a weight well off the ground and well behind the rear wheel on one of your trikes, what would be the result?. If you suddenly had to move your motor up between the front wheels of your trike, what would happen to stability? Are your trikes FWD? How would FWD affect stabilty?
Tadpole config and wide stance solves that. Videos of a modified Reliant Robin (trike) rolling at the drop of a hat isn't even indicative of norms for trike 3 wheelers since they changed the suspension and differential for that famous Top Gear piece. When breaking and steering with a trike style (not Aptera) the weight shifts forward and out of the stability triangle. The moose test for the beta mule at 7:30 was done at ~48 mph which is far faster than most vehicles and even at that speed it looked nowhere close to rolling. ~78 kph / ~48 mph puts aptera in the top ~5% of vehicles (tied with Tesla model 3 lr which is their best vehicle) for the iso double lane change (moose test) and that is ignoring the many SUVs and trucks that are not listed since they cant get close to a passing score or even attempt the test (data listed on teknikensvarld - europeans use the test far more). Mach-E does unexpectly terrible failing at anything over 42 mph. Because America loves big SUVs and trucks little focus is given to the test since the vehicles generally fail miserably and end up with comical rollover videos at ~40 mph.
Have you bothered to watch the whole video. Chris Mackinnon has stated many time that while doing the Moose Test, the Aptera has never tipped over like many other 4 wheeled vehicles have. This due to Aptera's low centre of gravity and stance of the front wheels.
Has been of concern to Consumers is a BS way to make an accusation with nothing behind it, almost stopped the video, it is quite click baity though. Top Gear is not an auto show it's a trash entertainment show
The "advanced" Aptera suspension system does not exist. All their previous testing were made with hub motors and no aluminium frame. So just a bunch of empty promises again. A three wheeled vehicle will catchup all potholes on the street. All dirt, rock, holes are accumulated in the center of a used road, where the back wheel catches everything.
That's an argument for better road maintenance - not a strike against a three wheeler. Also I would bet money that the majority of holes in the road of any shape or size occur to either side where the wheels of most vehicles travel - it's just that holes in the middle can go longer without patching before it becomes a real issue. On well traveled roles, dirt and rock accumulate on the shoulders
@@someoldguyinhawaii4960 What is easier: drive a real 4 wheeled car where the stuff in the middle of the road does not matter, or clean every road in the US at least once a week, so you can drive you motorcycle? The standard of easy and cheap road repair is to fix the left and the right side, where the wheels normally do the most damage on a road.
Agree with vic. From driving a Vanderhall and a Ryker on a regular basis, stuff in the road that you decide to “go over” actually has you, at speed, trying to offset slightly to get it to fall between the front and rear wheel. At times, a fun little challenge, but mostly, a pain the ass. Easiest to avoid stuff on a 2-wheeler, because you’ve got instantaneous maneuverability and you’re narrow, you’ve got choices. On the 3-wheelers, you do in fact choose “rear wheel” if something’s small. I can say that a 3-wheeler combines the worst of a 2 & 4, when it comes road hazard avoidance. As in wheel in the middle but not as narrow as a 2-wheeler to reliably go around something. Just my findings…
