Josh, how about a tuning video,starting with a paper tune and then provide the steps to move the arrow, so confused myself on what to move first, the rest, the cams, twist the strings.... forget that I'm a moron, but I still would like to have a step by step in how to properly approach the process. A michigan man here wishing you were my bow shop. thanks for all your vids watch them all.
These are the steps I do. 1) set nock height level and arrow 13/16” from shelf. 2) throw stabilizer or stabilizer’s roughly with the weight I’m going to use on the bow. 3) if string set is new shoot some arrows at close range to get the string set to settle some. Or throw it on the draw board at full draw and let it sit for 20-30 mins. This will get the cables to settle in.4) shoot through paper and study tear. High low tears check timing. If that’s perfect you may be getting contact on the rest or form may be off. I fix vertical rips first. Once that’s cleaned up work on the left and right tears. For paper I like to leave my rest at 13/16 and adjust with the shims or yokes. That way if your fixed blades are flying a little off you can make the necessary adjustments with micro tuning your rest. Usually just a couple clicks here and there if necessary.
@@mash4funBefore you adjust anything, make sure that your cams are in sync when they roll over and that one doesn’t stop before the other. If they aren’t in sync, you need to (un)twist the cables. Most bows have two little dashes on the cam for where the cable is designed to rest between. Always fix your vertical tears first.
Yes please with more 101 videos. I’m interested in starting the hobby of building my own arrows, so I would love instructional videos on it. I saw your video on the fletch jig, so more content like that. What glues or cements you use, etc. Love the content, please keep it up! Thank you
Very cool and informative. I am a relatively new shooter and although very simple stuff for the experienced, very helpful to me. I travel for work and hope to be in Spokane in next few months, I'll be sure to visit your shop. Please keep up the 101 lessons, I'm sure there are plenty of folks like me who will benefit.
Thanks for all you do! I'd love to see a deeper dive into FOC considerations and specifics (like how much? how much is too much? etc.) as well as covering how inserts and tip weights work in conjunction with arrow length. What does right look like?
I was just reviewing my arrow length this morning. I had a few shafts cut at my local shop, but I forgot that the Quantum runs a half out insert effectively making the arrow longer. Thank you for the information, I always find it valuable.
Great video Josh !! I cut my arrows an inch shorter than my draw length. ie. my draw is 28” so I cut them at 27” That puts them right past the middle of the riser.
super straight on the point video. honestly id TAKE ANY ADVICE you give on ANYTHING ARCHERY related! love the channel and podcast cant wait for the next one
Really great idea to do a 101 series. I am new into archery and amazed at all the singular aspects that can be be learned, but even more at how interconnected and related everything is. I have so many questions that need clarifying as I wade thru the youtube sea of archery minutia. This one on arrow length was perfect because I thought the arrow length had to be the same as draw length. My draw length is 29' and now I realize the arrow can be shorter than that. Thank you! Something that intrigues me now is finding the videos you and others did with Joel Turner where he talks about "muscle memory" and gives it the name it really should have which is "motor program"...thats beautiful man and so valuable. I am hooked but its so very expensive to have the best.
Thank you for the great information 👍 and perfect timing because I just ordered an arrow saw a bow vise and a bunch of other tuning tools so now im no longer reliant on my Loca shop for simple adjustments 👍
Yes please. I’m trying to learn and this is what I need. Next please do arrow selection such as diameter with hardware for what application. Then how to use tools such as hamske levels and such to set up my bow.
While this may not be a full Archery 101 video idea, I would like to see/hear your thoughts on the use of a a lens and clarifier in your bow setup. When it make sense and when it doesn't. Thank you for ding the video! I hope everyone appreciates the time you invest to film and produce them.
I have learned a ton from you since finding the channel. Love the conversations with you and Tim. All the other archers are awesome as well. Podium Archer has supplied me with great gear and tools for my in house bow shop.
Gonna love the 101 series. I've been shooting for a while, but sometimes it's good to re-learn some things (and learn new hints). Also, good for you for showcasing Bear archery more and more. I know a lot of folks give them a bad rap for being in "big box stores" but they are great shooting bows - especially some of their flagships in the last 2-3 years.
MFJJ I love that you’re starting this series of videos! This series will springboard so many offshoot series of videos. One thing I can recomend is a video for the guy that got the hand me down bow from his uncle that was 6” shorter than he was lol This happened to me when I was first introduced to the sport way back when. Shot that bow at a 27” draw for years until I decided to upgrade and traded into a bow that was set at 28”. That 28” bow felt so much better and shot so good I thought 28” is my ideal draw. I was in my early 20s at the time of all of this. I’m now 36yrs old. I still have that old bear bow that was set at 28”. I love it to this day but it is now set to the max 30” draw length. My newest bow is a 2018 Bear Kuma 33. It’s set at 29.5. It was set at 30 until a few months ago. The reason is that I watched one of your bow reviews and you talked about the draw length being “adjusted” by the manufacturers to reach IBO. That bow is now at 29.5 and it fits me perfect. Love that bow. If you ever do a pawn shop review I suggest you grab a 2018 33” bear Kuma. I bought the bow off of eBay and contacted Bear with some replacement parts issues I was having. They said what do you need and sent the parts no questions asked. I have an essential brand new bow for eBay prices because of how much Bear stands behind their product. Anyway, I love your videos. I’ve learned so much from you and I hope to see you continue to grow and thrive. If I wasn’t all the way over in East Tennessee I would stop by the shop and buy some arrows from you. Thanks for all you do.
Love this channel. I'm late to the archery party. Last bow I owned, I was 16. All I remember was it was a PSE 5000 something or another. The cams were the size of silver dollars, and it had an over draw. Any who, really enjoy the reviews on all the makes and models. I bought a White tail Legend Pro last year and looking to upgrade ASAP. Appreciate the time you take dishing out the info.
Great video and thanks for your recommendation. It convinced me to go with the shorter arrow setup for TAC. One idea for the future would be stock strings vs aftermarket and the differences in the brands.
So maybe you did read my email after all where I said, " I think you and Tim (or you and Dan) should do a video series called 'know your bow' where you break down each component of a bow (riser, limbs, cams, strings, cables, rests, grips, sights, stabilizers, dampeners, etc.), what that component does, how it works, how length, width, weight, angle, etc. affect it., what's the difference between a cheap bow and a high end one, things to consider based on your size, experience, use, etc. "
I've heard another train of thought, but it ends up close to this, if not a little longer. You can find out where the 'node' of your arrow is by holding it at the nock and tapping the shaft at something hard like a table. There is a spot, close behind the point/insert where there's no bounce. That's where the arrow will flex around, and the shaft might be best supported there since it doesn't move at launch.
Josh do you have a guide for how short to cut an arrow if you are gonna use an insert outsert system? Like the new Easton one for a the 4mm shaft? Or the standard victory collar? Thanks.
Sorry for being long winded here. Just wanted to make a point. The "old School" way way started by shops as the industry changed from aluminum to carbon. That was ironically about the same time that fall away rests started showing up in the industry. Since there was a need to maintain some overall arrow weight (because the carbon arrows were so much lighter than the aluminum) and conventional limb bows were erratic when you shot too light of an arrow shops saw this as a win win. The main reason was the fall away rests. Most of them wouldn't lift up until the last 1-3 inches of the draw cycle which caused broadheads to catch on the front (shelf) of the bow during the lifting of the rest, shops added a safety net to eliminate this problem. If you still shoot a cable driven rest, it can still be an issue if you forget to cock the rest or have the timing that would cause the rest to start lifting late (especially on older conventional limbed bows) so be aware of that. Limb driven is not in play because it lifts immediately.
Thank you Josh! I’ve always wondered how short your could go! I know there was a shop around here that would only cut flush with the riser. It makes me feel good that I can cut them down in order to get me FOC up with a 29.5in draw without adding a ton of weight.🤘
Its all in where you feel comfortable where your BHs are. Ive ran an overdraw before with 25in arrows with a 28.5dl. Only thing you really have to watch is where the collars on the arrows are, if you have them.
@lawrencefranck9417 they're a great tool to use. I believe Hamskea still offers there's. It's all about taking the time to understand it. Just like anything else. Actually nice seeing someone comments that remembers.
I asked this on one of your other videos where you add a collar and insert, making the arrow longer. With those setups in mind, where would you cut your arrow. Ultimately, I think the question comes down to weight vs length but I’ve only ever used standard inserts and increased weight with the broadhead/fieldpoint.
Josh, great series and I believe you asked for suggestions for topics. I have a few suggestions, take the good and ditch the bad. How does draw length, draw weight, arrow weight and arrow stiffness all play together. For a newbie, it’s somewhat daunting to pick the correct arrow. Another topic could be the whole sighting in process. For the newbie it’s awful difficult to shoot at 60 yards for your tape as I am so inconsistent. Is there a bow rest or bow holder that can fire arrows without the ill effects of the shooter??? My idea is similar to a gun rest and vice that removes all human error. Another lesson could be shooting at high and low angles and how to shoot when shooting on a slope, either uphill or down. Thanks again for you series and your interest in helping all archers shoot better, much appreciated. Doug in The Woodlands, TX
Hey Brother. When I was first learning to shoot a bow, I was told, your arrows should be the same as your draw length. So about 29" for me. But now that I've watched a lot of content that you are in, across multiple channels, I believe I've heard you say multiple times that arrows should be cut as short as possible and still be safe. Somewhere in between the rest and the front edge of the shelf. But making sure the arrow is touching the rest and not the components. So, I took all the math work out of it and had my brother mark my arrow, while I was at full draw, about 3/8" in front of the rest on one bow, then double checked on my backup bow just to make sure they would work on both setups. The mark came in almost a 1/4" under 27". Which was over 2 inches shorter than what I had been shooting. So I cut my arrows down to 27" carbon to carbon. Gives me plenty of room to change nocks or inserts and still be past the rest. No need to have the arrow out there 1/2" past the shelf like I've heard some people say. It's no wonder why they have to shoot 250 spine arrows. When your arrow is 31" long and over 3 inches longer than needed.
The exception is if your broadhead, especially a fixed blade, needs that extra length to clear the shelf. Even Ramcat 100s will hit the shelf with a 28” arrow at 28.5” DL.
@jamessalerno4234 Obviously certain broadheads won't work on arrows cut close to the rest. Really, any 1 1/2" cutting diameter fixed blade, or smaller, will work just fine. And that's pretty much the majority of fixed blades.
Hey Josh, would you be able to do a video with a list of tools that you would recommend? I’m working on getting my own DIY shop set up. I’m a 2+ hour drive from the closest pro shop. Your videos have been such a great resource and I’ve picked up a few tools here and there but a comprehensive list and maybe a quick explanation of how/why you use that tool would be super helpful so I have everything I need to build my bow start to finish. I have several buddies that I would love to help with their set ups as well. Thank you for all your information!
I wouldn't mind seeing the use of a bow square. Whether in tuning, bow setup, or any other uses. I've see you use it to find center on the bow string when mounted to the arrow rest but didn't notice how you set soft knots. I enjoy your content and channel. I've learned alot so thanks a bunch.
One question I’ve had that no one has covered. FOC is desirable but where is the point of diminishing return? I can setup my Victory XV with 25% FOC and still be around 450 grains but is that best for the arrow? If not what is and why?
One thing to be aware of is if you cut it with half a inch of clearence, some of the mechanical broadheads go back behind the cut point and you will make contact with the rest cause them to unknock at full draw. 1 inch is better wiggle room
My 2nd compound was a Martin Firecat with an overdraw rest back in the early 1990's. It was my least favorite bow because of the overdraw feature. Any riser twist in the hand was magnified greatly. The short, light aluminum arrows had terrible penetration. Someone shooting a broadhead like the NAP Exodus (blades sweep back over the shaft creating a broadhead that's about the same length as a field point) may want a little more length than someone shooting something like a Slick Trick Magnum. To simply say a 1/2" past the rest is a bit of an assumption in my opinion. If your bow doesn't have a super solid backwall, you may want your arrows a bit longer, too. I know individuals who have over drawn their bow when a big buck excites them, and their broadhead caught the rest pulling the arrow off the string or pulled the nock out of the arrow. Crazy things can happen when one is excited.
If I was going to request a video it would be about the progression of equipment someone could buy over time as they become a better archer and wants to work on their gear themselves. When should you invest in a fletching jig? Do d-loop pliers make that much a difference? How much should I spend on an arrow saw, and when does it make sense to have my own? What skills does a new bowhunter need to take into the field to fix a problem that might otherwise derail his plans for a hunt?
I shot an Overdraw back in the late 1980's. I shot terrible with the 24" arrows. My point is that shorter arrows are less forgiving. Its simple Trigonometry and physics. So it is something to consider when going shorter. There are lot of advantages as mentioned in the above video.
Man I would like to see a fletching video about the different devices, ease of use for repeatability. With consideration of the home archer who isn't gonna fletch hundreds or thousands of arrows a year. Or just the best gear for the home archer in general.
I will say.... I have cut arrows for people using the new school short method, and I have had several people come in the shop and re buy arrows because (I warned them too) they cut themselves either drawing or releasing the bow. Luckily most were not severe cuts but they admitted to pay more attention to the position of their hands when the broadhead was sitting farther out vs closer to the arrow rest. Just food for thought
I had to go find a video on how to install the lens. Well install the fiber into the lens on my UV3 scope. I had no clue whenever I opened up the box and it was a hollow scope but crispy had one out and I would just wondering what you would have to say on that or what you would cut your fibers too and all that that'd be a good video to make. Thanks!
I think that offering this as blanket advice is probably not appropriate. I am currently still shooting my 2010 model year Hoyt Maxxis. Last week I had one of the blazer vanes hit my index finger near the knuckle. I do not point my fingers forward, but as I examined this "risk factor", I could see that with a tight grip (meaning high up into the point of the grip where it widens) with a relaxed grip, my grip hand knuckle would protrude up above the "cut-out" and it could be at risk of being cut by a Broadhead. I've been shooting this bow for 14 years and the type of contact has been a rare occurrence. But once with a Broadhead is twice too many. I would LOVE to shorten my arrows as you suggest and I have considered it. But at least for now, with this bow, I think it would be irresponsible. especially since I mostly do remote wilderness hunts with a full day to get to a trailhead. I guess for those folks that shoot mechanicals, it is probably safe. I'm thinking hard about purchasing an RX8 / RX8 Ultra. Perhaps that design will be more accommodating for your suggested strategy.
I’d like to see how you use your bow square to determine where to tie your nocking points. What measurements do you use and do you tie the top or bottom nocking point tight to the arrow. Thanks
How much pressure you should have on your front hand and how much on your release hand should your front arm be straight or a little bent. Show a camera angle of what your sight picture should look like while looking through your peep. Twisting your string vs twisting your cables what each one does and why you would do them
I remember arrows being cut 3.5-4.5 inches shorter than draw length when overdraws were popular. Broadhead was way behind the riser. On current bows I always ask if they will use mechanicals. Some of the blades come back further than a half inch. Or if they plan to used turkey broadheads that need sit out in front of the riser.
My comment is more of a question and advise Prime nexus 2 Gold tip xt hunter 300gr 27” 281/2” draw 100gr tip Shooting 299 fps Sever 2.0 Broadhead Want to go on elk hunt Everyone talks more weight So went and got G5 mark 203 300 spine 5mm Will put left helical with single bevel iron will My speed dropped to 270??? WTF Did I go too heavy if so your thoughts on stow to use or is 270 ok for an elk hunt
this is just awesome, just sent a question to you on this very thing. now I can get ahold of you guys to build my arrows with the right length... one more question for when you cut.. do I include my knock in the measurements or not.???
I have a question on bow length that no one has been able to answer articulately or even in a way I’ve been able to understand. What size bow is best for my draw length? My draw length is 27in. I shoot a Mathew’s V3X 29 because that’s what I was told would fit me best. What would the pros and cons be if I switched to a 33 ATA for instance? I like the idea of shooting a longer bow from the performance perspective. I’d like to understand it better
Great stuff here for sure,as usual. But if you are shooting a wide COC like a 1.5 inch wide head, I will continue to cut them off the shelf to keep them from my fingers, So the asterisk always is, depending on your broadhead. Another issue might be, but not a rule, is a mechanical with a huge 2 inch cut, upon release, may open. I never trusted how they lock in or any of the elastic O rings.. I don't shoot mechanicals, but i'd still use my large cut COC arrows I use for hog hunting. As for FOC ? @ 80 pounds, and using an over spine 200 even a 250 spine @ my 27.5 draw, FOC is difficult to influence greatly. Basically with a 200 spine, what you get is what you get. Tinkering with FOC is harder,but with a 150 grain head, and a 50 grain half out, i'm more than lethal with FOC and KE and my favorite Momentum. i'm 65 so you know I am old school, and even moreso. I remember a Hoyt Super Slam bow I had with an overdraw, maybe close to 40 years ago ? We cut the arrows short because we wanted speed. Aluminum arrows I used 2413's. With a little bit of string stretch after time, I draw the bow back, using the fix TM launcher. Field tip,,luckily, and the arrow pulled past the forks on the TM rest and fell in below the rest. I don't recall how I was able to correct it ? I think I kept it at full draw pull up all I had, and used my thumb from the grip to push the arrow up onto the fork and slightly crept the arrow back on. Those twin cam bows you were able to "creep" them forward, hence the term "creep tuning", match cams top to bottom. So for me, I was never like the target and 3D shooters who cut shafts to the rest for the extra FPS or whatever.
I went to a shop back in the winter to get a new lift had my old arrows with me which was cut like 1/2” in front of the rest. I thought I’d get a new dozen arrows while I was there and they refused to cut them that short. Short as they would do is in front of the riser. Needless to say I just got some new shafts from Lancaster.
I've said this on other videos. My local shop has a rts package for $120.00 granted its not the nicest or most top of the line. Put it gets me into shooting. Then I can upgrade as I grew and develop. The package includes a quiver, site, peep, arrow rest. It would be nice of podium put a package like this together. I was wanting to order a darton consequence but trying to figure out the accessories in said screw it. I think you should out together a package of accessories and offer it as a bundle.
Is the min. grains per draw length still a thing? The old rule of 5g per inch of draw length. I built a set of arrows for TAC and they come in at 312g. 27" XV RIPS ,350 spine w/120g glue in points. 70# Traverse 27.5" draw length. TOO LIGHT????
Would you cut it a little longer with a drop away rest so fixed blade or mechanical baldes dont interfere with the action of the rest? Thank you for such great info
Just a question that’s been wrapping around my head that I hope you may have an answer for. When you adjust the D-loop to align with a slightly twisted peep sight, theoretically the string is somewhat twisted at full draw. With correct serving size and gap between nock, will there be any issues when the arrow is launched to affect accuracy? May be a silly question but I stay hungry for any new knowledge gained. TIA
You should also consider if you are going to add a collar to your arrow. Then you would probably want to cut long enough so the collar doesn't make contact with the rest.
Josh, could you discuss what the best total arrow weight should be based on draw poundage? Mythbust this for me as I have heard some talk around a bows max efficiency is ~8gr per pound of draw, so we should try to make total arrow wt. as close to this number as possible. Is this accurate? Or what’s the best way to determine how heavy of an arrow to shoot? Thanks man! 👊
Tuning budget single cam bows like bear spices and adapt, pse stinger atk specifically addressing cam lean. Almost all the detailed tuning videos are tuning $1000+ bows with dual cams.
everyone else tells us "their" opinion. you actually tell us why and the reasoning and effects of cutting longer vs shorter. Thanks dude... by the way. I'm ordering some .204 Stainless inserts today from you. Can I suggest a stainless .166 option. please and thank you
Draw length Anchor points Arrow spine String care Pull weight Fixed pin sight in Single pin sight in Rest timing Cam timing Paper tunes Peep sights Stabilizers Fletching styles Number of fletchings FOC Arrow weights Broadhead/field tip weights Peep serving Peep sizes D loops Releases Hand positions Axle to axle Draw length to axel to axle ratio Twisting cables Knock styles Knock fits All that should get you well into summer maybe even fall 😊
3 days too late . Already cut mine at center of riser was worried about going to far to towards rest but really wanted to Wack another 1” for FOC . Thanks for the video for future reference .
I cut my arrows at the beginning of the first riser bolt closest to the string at full draw, it works the best for me, best thing is to cut it until it groups the best.
Watching ASA, the moment wind started catching up, I saw loads of female more than male shooters change to micro diameter arrows. The commentators mentioned that they change their sight tapes to match the micro diameter ones. I always thought it was way more than just a sight tape. What about the arrow rest blade dimensions and thickness..? Don’t think they are all using drop-away rests( correct me if wrong).
Just an idea but could you do a video foccusing on bows and tips for archers with long draw length 32"+. Are there ways to use shorter draw bows without compromising form.. Us gorillas dont get a lot of mention and with bow companies moving to shorter draw bows (bowtech for example) options for flagships are drying up. Thanks
MFJJ 101 lessons fixing peep rotation. People buy presses to work on their bows. Replace strings. Then have a hard time with peep rotation. I see it on forum boards often. Just a suggestion.
What are your thoughts on those v style biscuits? I switched to compound about a year ago and got one for my first compound. I ended up getting one to replace the stock one and brought it in for a tune. My locao shop said they cant tune it properly because they "have had problems tuning these rests previously". Wasnt too sure if thats common or if theres another tuning problem theyre not identifying
Hi Josh, it's super useful. Question, how you will measure the arrow if you have an arrow rest? Just the same in full draw with the arrow rest at 90 degrees? Cheers
Yes cutting an arrow shorter will Stiffen it but isn’t an arrow spine based on 28 inch arrows? So if you don’t cut them shorter than that will not change spine? So if you have an arrow at 28” and the spine is 300 then you are not changing the spine, if you cut an arrow at 27” then you change the spine stiffer
i like it, thank you. a simple stabilizer video for real life situations would be appreciated. Some hunt from tree stands, some don't, some have open terrain.....etc.
What size arrow to shot 3D and targer out side (OD of the arrow) and does the vain size on larger size help? Thank you My first bow came from yall hahaha the start of this rabbit hole and I love falling down it haha
Have you thought about selling a starter bundle for people wanting to buy stuff to start doing their own d-loop, nocking point, peep, serving ect? Basically a bundle of everything they need to do that to get started on the right path
Really enjoy this type of quick to the point type video, but is there any way you can do a video about tuning your bow and arrow by cutting different lengths of shafts just can't wrap my head around it thanks!!!
How about how to rebuild a bow or how feasible is it to replace say a damaged limb on a used bow that is no longer in production? I know the short answer is just go buy a new one but for those who can't what is realistic or your best options?
Could you do a video on rest timing limb driven and cable driven. There is hardly no info on that at all. Longer contact or less rest contact. What’s better and how do you get it.
I asked in your other video this week. Please do a video on peep twist and how many times you might have to twist your string. And upper vs lower string twists.
I’m here to tell you.. Before upgrading to the Lift I shot the VXR, the EXODUS Head would hit my riser. As a matter of fact I pulled the Broadhead out of the insert the 1st time I came to full draw. Keep in mind not all broadheads are equal..
