Josh, I know you made a grip video. But you need to do another. Maybe more In depth. Take a guy who has a bad grip. Shooting through paper, work with him on camera and show how much the grip effects tuning. It is so huge and such an underestimated point! It’s the biggest key to all this. The grip needs to be buttoned up even before one tries to tune and shoot through paper. It’s such a key element and it’s not gone over enough.
Hey Josh. Been a fan for a while now but haven’t gotten to all of your videos. I may have missed it but I think I’m not the only one who would love a video of a start to finish full setup and how to do it all. (Bow selection and build, tuning, arrow selection and build, etc) if u already have one I apologize. Thanks
Working on my new Phase 4 29”. Bought the tophat kit from you. I had a point left tear. Switched the existing tophats, still a 1/4 - 5/16ths tear. Now I’ll go with the next larger set to move that cam more to the right. Appreciate your simple tutorials. Hunting season starts here in Oregon on Sept 2. 🤪. Got a late start with my bow since the bow with all the accessories was a gift from my son who bought the same bow. My kids like me
More quality info for the average Joe to learn to work on their own equipment. Much appreciated. Quality shops are few and far between. Learn to work on your own stuff.
Great info as usual. One note, if you have a bow that uses shims/top hats you might find that you are between sizes and have to move the rest ever so slightly to get that bullet hole with a bare shaft. Just a couple clicks on a micro adjustable, I can barely see it move with my naked eye on the Epsilon but it affects flight.
So I have an Elite omnia and had right tears (point left). I had that bow all jacked up. Finally just swallowed my pride and took it to the bow shop. Just to find out I was torquing my bow....yeah that just to find out I need to work more on me than my bow lol. $60/labor lesson learned. But now I'm hitting dimes @ 80yds. Ok maybe not every time but once in a session at least. Thanks for all the helpful videos Josh. They are a real help for me since I just got back into bow hunting last year after almost 30 yrs.
Great video you mentioned how tuning elite with the SET system is not as efficient as using its shim system I was wondering if you could do a video on how you would tune a new elite and more in-depth on why the set system is not as good
90% of shops are run by know it alls or d bags that think the consumers aren't supposed to know anything about tuning because they are "supposed " to do all the work.
Because a lot of people who walk in don’t have consistent enough form for it to make any difference in a tear. That’s why they set it up off the center-shot and recommend mechanical broadheads.
Because a lot of people don’t want to take the time to learn just grad their bow and wound a animal and if it doesn’t die they blame it the bow and go and spend a couple thousand and the bow shops look at us and say I’m too busy you can leave it here and I might have it done in a month, so who needs our money Spokane Archery gosh that’s 20 hours from me 🤷🏼♂️
Because you can paper tune at home, firstly you get humbled when you try to paper tune as it shows people's inconsistencies in their grips. Better to learn that at home.
Making tuning look easy! Keep the videos coming. You might want to mention that all other things need to be right before this step, like bow specs, timing, and arrow spine.
MFJJ, I love this video, it really shows how adjusting the cams can tune the bow. Here's what I would love to see, a video demonstrating WHY moving the rest out of center is bad or how it affects your impacts or groups or tune or whatever. I've always tuned my bows by bumping the rest, and out to 100 yards i dont have any weird left or right variance or anything. I'm very intermediate though, so im just working off of what has worked the best for me. I've never had to move the rest super far out of center, so maybe only extremes make a big difference? Exactly the kind of answer i'd like to see and MFJJ is the man to do it. Please! and Thanks!
Nice video MFJJ. I liked the way you explained tuning. I’d really like to see how you can do this on a Hoyt bow. I’m always afraid to touch anything on my bow! I’m worried I’m going to screw it up.
Great video, thanks! New subscriber here who just found you guys a couple of weeks ago...love your channel! Might be a dumb request, but a video about your paper tuning rack would be awesome. I built one out of PVC, and it's not great. Would love to see more detail on your paper tuning rack build.
Id b interested in watching a video on how you made your paper tuning set up. Looks a lot better than most peoples. I have used a buddy's paper tuner n it sucks
I drew myself a tuning guide with illustrations on how moving the cams left or right effect the cam lean and bowstring centering and which direction to correct paper tears (arrow flight angle), as well as some simple rules on how to correct the various tears. It also explains how different dual limb stiffness and the asymmetric angle of the cables/cable guide effect cam lean. My PSE Evolve 31 benefitted from limb swapping more than anything. Included is how to move the arrow rest to fine tune. Up-down arrow rest adjustment makes sense, but left-right arrow rest tuning seems paradoxical to common sense and probably causes a lot of frustration. Also, instead of close-up paper tear tuning (in slo-mo arrows fish tail out of the bow, even in compound archery), I prefer down-range bare shaft tuning to where my bare shafts embed in the foam target parallel to my fletched arrows and group with my fletched arrows. The problem with paper tear tuning is that in slow motion the arrow shaft bends like a wet noodle at close range, so I question the validity of close range bullet hole tuning. Down range, a bare shaft oscillates much less yet does not straighten correct its flight due to lack of fletching. Therefore I think it is a better tuning method. This video skips over a diagram illustration of the effects of cam lean and limb torque and completely ignores up-down arrow rest tuning which is critical.
Josh have a question for you if you get your bow paper tuned properly Will your site pin A directly overtop of your arrow shaft Hopefully I'm asking the question properly I'm assuming string Wheel riser rest site All to be in the same line of sight Keep up with the videos I've been learning a great deal from you
Ok you playing with my emotions 😊. No mention of bow giveaways? Are they still going? You mentioned August.... I'm still waiting on that phone call.... You could bring it to Oahu Hawaii, stay with us and go to the beach after we set the bow up🎉😊😊😊😊
I love how easy it is to tune the carbon one. But damn that thing is heavy compared to the rx7 or levitate. My 2015 bowtech prodigy is lighter than the carbon one.
MFJJ, You have done the wheeling videos before using a draw board while having the bow at full draw using the Spot Hogg laser tool. Do both of these processes accomplish the same thing? I know in your bow build videos you do the draw board wheeling method and verify it is correct by shooting through paper. Does this way accomplish the same thing? Is one method more precise and accurate than the other? I feel the draw board method would be more precise but have never had the chance to do it that way and no shop will ever do it that way either. Look forward to your response. Thanks!
Great video and I agree that moving the CAMs is much better than moving the rest. It will make your bow shoot better and be more forgiving. Only move the rest for micro adjustments. Never more than 1/16" out from recommended center shot in either direction. I do wish you would say cam lean instead of wheel lean. Wheel bows are a thing of the past. I guess there are still some single cams with idler wheels but very few. One more suggestion, I think you may confuse people when you say point right or left instead of nock right or left. You are the only person I've ever heard talk about point direction or wheel lean.
I just fletcher 6 arrows with only 2 blazer vanes 180 degrees apart. They are flying true at 60 & 80 yards. I get 10 fps better and save a few yards on sight tape. Should I stay with 2 vanes or 3 vanes.
As long as you have the correct spine arrow and your bow is is correctly tuned, does knock tuning really matter? So I understand that if you buy spine matched arrows, All the arrows will flex the same way. But if you buy just standard arrows off the shelf that aren't spine matched, can you still get good paper tuning if all the bow is setup perfect?
i’ve always had this question about moving the cams/shimming, etc. and wheel lean: what do you do when the cams ultimately need to have significant wheel lean in order for the bow to tune through paper? For example, my Mach 34 shoots great through paper, shimmed at, .140 on the right and .080 on the left. But in this configuration, with the spot hog laser tool, my wheels, both lean toward the cable rod about 3/4 of an inch off of each other. I can decrease that lean by shimming the cams in the opposite direction but then I get a terrible paper tear, of course. Shimming to get the good paper tear, I could then use the yokes to change the strain on the cams, but they don’t move the cams very much on this bow. In this situation, I often ask myself: What would MFJJ do. I’ll resist the temptation to start selling those silicone wristbands with WWMFJJD while I… pray for an answer?
Ok I am having issues with my sons bow. It has a 1" - 1 1/2" tare to the right and down. I had to change the cables and the cable gaurd. The oem gaurd was taring up the cables. This bow is a bear and has a top y cable only. I had never had any issue tuning this bow until now. Any ideas besides driving 5 hrs to your shop for you or your guys to look at it?😊
with the cams to e.g. to the right, so is the string relative to the centre shot at full draw? Does that mean the nock travels from full draw to brace from the right to the centre, and then the nock continues to overshoot with that momentum to create a tail left tear?
Okay so now how does this apply to tuning with broad heads. Im a lefty, shooting a bowtech with the deadlock cams. My fixed blades impact 4" left of my field points at 50 yds, which way do i go on the cams 😅😅
Have you seen where arrow points where at -3/16 on the vtm??? Points way left. Taping atrow to riser have to put arrow at 1/2” for cs. Cam leans right pretty bad andd limbs are flexed uneven at cam. I got a bullet hole at about 12’ putting arrow at 11/16 and moving cam over. Not sure on grouping at distance though. Why is this bow giving me ocd
When you say "POINT right" or "POINT left" is that the same as nock right and nock left, which is what I normally hear. Or how can I tell the difference of its not the same ? I would really appreciate any insight. Its driving insane.
I am new to archery and tuning, someone might have a suggestion for my process? What can be quite a quest is paper tuning and bareshaft tuning coming together. It can be quite the either-or, especially if the paper tuning says one thing and the bareshaft the opposite - and then again, the arrow tuning and nock tuning.. I choose to use an arrow that is the straightest, nocktune my bareshaft so that both make bullet holes at 5 yards (standard 7/8 rest as said in the manual with the Elite verdict with limb/cam adjustment - I tried 13/16, but the visual method with a second arrow to the riser looks crooked), then go bareshaft tune both (via the rest) with multiple shots to be close to an inch at 18 yards and call it a day. I might go further away in the future, but then again, most of my arrows are not really straight (Skylon Empress or Empror)...
I should add, after bareshaft tuning, I go check again for papertears and as long as the tear is just a tad nock left or nock high (Levi Morgan has an old video about that), all is fine, but if it isn't, which wasn't the case yet, I would go back to tinkering with the limb/cam lean stuff from Elite.. still working on my form and anker point anyhow...
JOSH I hope you answer my question how do that to a prime black 9 I’ve got it shooting bullet holes now and I’m not changing it and I don’t know why it is alignment dots do not line up and the draw length it’s set on shows my arms shrunk a whole freaking bunch I’m thinking I’m stupid and need new eyes
Curious. For string/cable/limb life why would you not set your cams with no lean and just do a simple rest adjustment for perfect tear? Looks like a lot of effort when a micro rest adjustment is easier?
Vocabulary explainations for those watching that may have not heard of "wheeling" or exactly what "point left/right" means. Give the "whys", maybe in the knuckle-dragger versions?
You need to shoot a video talking about stabilizers and how they affect your paper tear. I started adding a bunch of weight to my front bar on my target bow and started hitting right really bad, so I took my bars off shot it threw paper perfect hole then added the bars and got a nock left tear. So I played with weight and stabilizer angle till I got back to my bullet hole
@@liamboyle9199 well I saw it at the target before I shot it threw paper. So the stabilizers definitely have an influence on your shot target or hunting bow
@Texaslivinoutdoors I'm not saying they don't change your arrow flight per say, although you appear to have a severe case which is quite odd😂 Normally if you stack front weight you will hit low. Hitting higher and right is quite strange. How many Pros run an insane amount of weight on the front and some will even purposely unbalance their bow so they force it to be level. Imagine the forces at work. I'd be willing to put money on it that not too many of them care what their stabs do to their arrow flight. Several times, you'll here a pro mention how their arrow flight wasn't the best, BUT they produced the best results. I know the logic dictates a bullet hole is the way to go but there's some stuff in this sport that doesn't quite work that way😅 But also as an individual obviously you have to do what works for you🙂 Arrow flight will matter with a hunting bow because of the broad head, so let's not bring that into this, I avoided it by specifically saying target shooting.
@@liamboyle9199 I only had like 5-6oz out front and it was torquing it to the right when the shot broke so I checked to see what was going on, I thought something moved. The point of my comment was you can get a bullet hole on paper then add bars and get a total different tear and most people when setting up there stabilizers just add weight till there level stays level not realizing it can cause you to torque your bow.
@@liamboyle9199 I don’t care what my bow is doing threw paper but when I see my stabilizers are having an effect down range I’m going to address it and I saw the issue in the paper tear.
I waited until the end to ask to make sure I didnt miss it lol. On a mathews for example, do you need to change the top hats on the top AND bottom cam? In essence, whatever you do up top, you need to do to the bottom? Or are you just trying to get them to line up/create a bullet hole
How did your bow get out of tune since you said you Had to retune it? 5 years on my realm X and no retune needed. Shot broadhead s out to 50 yards no problem
This is selfish but i want to see a similar video on up and down tears and wheel timing on a dual yoke (not binary or cam and a half, or single cam) bow.
Question I recently picked my Bowtech solution SS up from my local dealer. When I shot through paper it shot tail right, about half an inch. When the Bowtech rep shot my bow it was perfect bullet hole. He said it’s my form. For me to shoot a bullet hole I have to grip my bow pretty firm and twist my wrist to the left. I am not sure if it is completely repeatable. Should I continue to shoot this way or tune my bow to my shooting style, which apparently has the bow slightly turned to the right.
You shooting in front of the shop tech might have something to do with it. After I blew a big hole to the left the tech shot a perfect hole. I told myself to relax and did the same
@@davefisher5196 I went home and did the same thing. I can make it shoot a bullet hole but I don’t feel like it’s repeatable. If I hold it with a light grip I get a consistent tail right tear. Might be over thinking it but to me it doesn’t look like perfect arrow flight. So just curious if I should chase the grip or chase the tear.
What happens if you’ve moved the cams almost all the way to the right but still have a tear. Would you then consider putting it all back and move the arrow rest first then the cams?
Make sure your rest is set at 13/16 and then check to make sure that your arrows are not to week of a spine or you have to much point weight for the spine of your arrow
You can move your rest, Also It could be influenced by your grip or face pressure etc too, make sure your form is good before tuning or it can cause people to chase their tails!
Josh so I shoot bowtech as well and love them for the tuning capability. My question is, after I've paper tuned a bullet hole, I usually walk back or French tune. If I'm shooting a bullet hole but then need to adjust for right or left grouping on my vertical line, should I worry that it throws my paper tuned off or should I just go straight to broadhead tuning after walk back tuning?
My shop said they used to paper tune but it was just a waste of time for them. Meaning they had sales to make not education. Well they lost thousands with me after rushing my new bow through squaring it up and messing it all up. I did it myself this year after last season was a wreck. Me squaring my bow this year did better by eye then they did with lasers. They literally lost thousands of dollars from me now.
I have no idea if any newer bows have adjustable cable guide rods but I have micro tuned? slight tears in paper by moving and therefore changing the tension on the cables. Something very easily done for that last 1/2 or 1/4 shaft diameter off center tear.
Tuning is what keeps me out of archery. If I don't have a perfect bullet hole, it bothers me. Im not even sure a bullet hole matters because the arrow flexes in flight. Im considering a traditional bow.
You will never get a clean hole with a recurve. Bullet hole is a starting point because they will move the rest to get broadhead and field point to group.
More quality info for the average Joe to learn to work on their own equipment. Much appreciated. Quality shops are few and far between. Learn to work on your own stuff.
Sometimes the rest has to be moved. When you work with shims or top hats, you only have widths to work with. If grip and tune fall in between, then a small rest tweak will finish it up.
Whats genius about it. He never came up with this way of tuning. All he is doing is showing how to tune. And this is how you always tuned a bow in a shop. Even before movable cams you would twist the cable yoke to induce cam lean to tune the bow. This is just informative for those new to tuning their own bows
MFJJ it would be awesome if you could give us some tuning tips on some old bows. I am running a 2012 Diamond Black Ice which is a single cam solid limb bow. I got the bow from a friend Brand New in the box 3 years ago I have paper tuned it a couple of times now and it seems like after I get a bullet hole and then shoot a couple hundred shots i start to see the tail wag in my arrow flight. I shoot a pretty good group with field points but now with broadheads I'm shooting right. I'd appreciate it a little advice man!
