Archery | Are Longer Bows Stronger?

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Why length doesn't determine strength, and a look at self bows and composite bows and their manufacture.
Video sources:
Mick Grewcock:
/ @mickgrewcock
Xiaoshow Bow | ZWE:
• Xiaoshao Bow | Zwe
Bows featured:
Greyhawke Longbow
Istvan Toth Mongolian Bow
===
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/ nusensei
Twitter:
/ nu_sensei

Опубликовано:

24 апр 2019

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Комментарии : 177

@dace48 5 лет назад

Supplementary to this comparison of bow sizes I would recommend that people could look at the 1592-1598 invasions of Korean by the Japanese, where the relatively tiny Korean Gakgung constantly outperformed the Japanese Yumi which tends toward big even for a longbow. Of course there were several other factors including the use of the aesigal and tong-ah but most unbiased comparisons show that the gakgung out ranged the yumi by a fair margin. In other words, size does not matter no matter what my girlfriend says.

@andreasmuller4666 5 лет назад

Yeah but you can "equip" a composite "weapon" there to help with the size argument.

@farqitol 5 лет назад

That’s not all your girlfriend told me.

@alexanderflack566 4 года назад

The fact that a bow design meant for high arrow speed with light arrows beat one designed for short range penetration with heavy arrows at flight archery isn't actually a particularly meaningful statement, and it certainly doesn't mean that the gakgung is superior to the yumi overall. In the same vein, the ability of a yumi or Manchu bow to deliver a long, heavy arrow with tremendous impact at short to medium range (compared with the gakgung's lesser performance in that context) does not make the gakgung inferior overall. For flight archery, you can get away with a shorter draw length, whereas for armor penetration at short range you need a longer draw, which necessitates a longer bow given the same materials and design.

@koreancowboy42 2 года назад

@@alexanderflack566 but still you gotta take in note that the bows used during the time were also effective for the armor during those days. I've watched War of Arrows a Korean movie setting around the period where Qing, Manchu invaded Korea. Short bows or also Composite bows are impressive they are more used on horse back and are compacted perfectly to run with. As a long bow/self bow is impractical on horseback, you can make it work but note it takes alot more strength to pull a bow like the English long bow compared to the Composites which is meant to be more easier draw and such but still have good range and impact full damage to the armor at the time. Europe is always progressing in weapons and armor as there was more iron and such at the time. They just need time to improve smithing armor. It's really just personal preferences. The Yumi it isn't a bad weapon, but it's meant for the time period.

@alexanderflack566 2 года назад

@@koreancowboy42 Are you seriously trying to use an action movie as a source? Do you not realize that not only are wars decided by a lot more than just individual weapons, but that both sides were using gunpowder weapons in addition to bows, and that the Qing were the ones who actually won that conflict? Also, the notion that composite bows are easier to draw than longbows is not necessarily true. They were more often lower in draw weight due to use while mounted, but foot archers in those cultures still used massive draw weights, just as they did in Europe.

@jkre 5 лет назад

Longbows are long bacause the wood can only bend to certain point before snapping, so to get long enough draw lenght suitable for war, the bow needs to be long so that it woun't break. Self bow are usually made 2.2 to 2.5 times longer than the draw lenght, depending the type of bow (flat or "english style") and the wood used. The lenght is allso a problem, because more u increase the lenght of the bow, the more bendier it gets, so to get the power needed it has to be thicker otherwise the draw weight would be too low. So the longbow has added mass from lenght and the extra thicknes and more mass the limbs have, more inertia, and that causes speed loss. Eaven the mass of the bow string affects the arrow speed and the longer the bow is the longer the sting, and there fore heavyer. Horse bows are not made from multible material because of the lack of wood, but cus the wood alone cannot stand long draw lenghts when its made too short. And the shortnes is't for horse back riding, it's cus that reason I partically explained above. When u increase the lenght of the bow, u decrease the draw weight, and that works the other way around. When u make a short bow, u not only decrese the limb mass by making it short, but cus short limbs are harder to bent they can be made thinner, and still have the same draw weight, but less mass and that means less inertia and that means more arrow speed and that means more power. And why its made from horn and sinew? Cus sinew can take about 8 times more tension than wood does and horn is much better at compression, so the limbs can be bent much much more than just self wooden limbs, so u get long draw from short bow. Actually horn bows don't need wood to work, native americans did horn bows without wood, (there are videos on youtube about a guy who still does them), but wood is lighter than horn or sinew, so u can decrease the mass of the limbs by making the core out of wood, and again less mass means more arrow speed = more power. But why then use longbows if composite bows are so much better? I'm not historian, i can only ques, but parhaps simply because european archers were commoners. They didn't have money to buy expensive composite bows, that take a year to make, anyone with some skills can make a self bow, and if u have dry wood, u can make bow within a day, so self bow were quick and easy to make so they must have been much cheaper and better available than composite bows in europe. And its good enough, it gets the job done, eaven todays war fare the number of weapons is often more important than the quality. In asia the archer were often (not always) the elite, so they had money for best bows, like for examble in china the emperors quards were often archers.

@Marmocet 5 лет назад

Even using modern epoxies, composite bows have a tendency to delaminate in humid and wet weather, which probably explains why people living in humid and wet climates didn't use composite bows even though they knew about them and had the materials needed to make them if they wanted to.

@helterskelter416 5 лет назад

yup, all of that was in the video, good summary.

@alexanderflack566 4 года назад

The weight is less one-sided than you think; horn is nearly twice as dense as yew (1.28-1.34 g/cc versus 0.67 g/cc), and I'm fairly certain the glue and sinew that they use to make composite bows add density as well.

@Intranetusa Год назад

The Romans stationed Syrian archers in rainy Britain, so rain alone isn't that big of an issue for the glues used in composite bows assuming proper maintenace. And there are water resistent glues historically as well. I think the issue may be heat, constant humidity, and lots of rain - all of them combined (which is what subtropical/tropical climates have). This prevents the bows from drying properly in the first place when it is in the process of being created.

@HuettFranklin 5 лет назад

Hey I haven’t watched one of your videos in a while and I’m happy to see you’re still putting out informative videos

@McJaews 5 лет назад

Spot on explanation, Nu. Well done!

@adam-k 5 лет назад

When bows made from the same material larger bows can be stronger. However this is a moot point because even the smallish Turkish bows can be #140 which is plenty for a war bow of any type.

@alexanderflack566 4 года назад

You can't just use draw weight as a universal stand-in for how powerful a bow was. Turkish bows typically couldn't support any more than a 28-30" draw length, whereas something longer (like a Manchu bow with its 36" or so draw length) is going to store (and with proper arrows, deliver) a lot more energy for a given draw weight.

@koreancowboy42 2 года назад

@@alexanderflack566 yes that is true. But even a shorter bow can still have good range and impactful damage to the person and armor at the time. Watch War of Arrows Qing, Manchu invades Korea. Koreans had shorter and thinner bows but still shoot quite well. Don't get me wrong the Manchurian bows were slightly longer and were able to shoot larger arrows. It's impressive. But that's because these are eastern people and difficult cultures. Nomads have different types of bows from short to longer and bigger bows. That's when a certain quote I've heard came from a documentary "Mongols usually carried two types of bow. One for lightly armored targets. A heavier bow for heavily armored targets " Each of the two bows have a advantage.

@KetchamRLK 5 лет назад

My concern implied in this video is all these commenters getting their history education from RPG or online games - it seems an indictment of the ability of educations systems in some places to teach people to differentiate between fantasy and actual history - You are providing a much needed reality check not to mention a bit of an mechanical engineering lesson Thank you

@aarondavis5386 4 года назад

Lets be fair, the average person does not need to know the details, of how bows were made or the physics behind them from 500 or more years ago I think the education system going into that level of detail on that narrow a topic would be a waste of resources and time.

@Danny-el8ww Год назад

@@aarondavis5386 you learn this in western civilizations, the invention of this bow is significant because it drastically changed warfare. Therefore it's not really a "waste" if it's for a history course. The main point of history courses is to improve critical thinking and memory. So the small details like this are important so you understand WHY this was significant, not just the knowledge of their invention.

@jongrimplin7170 5 лет назад

hey nu sense i love your videos im a new archer myself but im also a plant healthcare specialist you should check that shrub behind you for root rot love your videos

@Waltham1892 5 лет назад

See, size STILL doesn't matter!

@Aron-ru5zk 5 лет назад

Waltham1892 yep... it’s all about the stiffness

@Waltham1892 5 лет назад

@@Aron-ru5zk I'll go with that.

@cyropower7808 5 лет назад

@@Aron-ru5zk I see you are a man of culture

@russellboronow1598 5 лет назад

To know where the misconception originates and then breaking it down, that is impressive. Thank you from a traditional enthusiast.

@andreasmuller4666 5 лет назад

Nice that you put in clips from that bow making vid. I found it about half a year ago on YT and was truly fascinated by the complex process of making a traditional "asian" composite bow. If you could, i would be interested to see a japanese samurai bow compared to those two as well.

@jamesharvey3993 5 лет назад

Hey Nu! I just made a new system for Bow based combat in D&D to reflect the incredibly varied nature of different bows. It takes into account both draw weight and arrow type, and is scalable for each bow type, with a poundage range depending on the historical estimates for each bow type.

@gonzaloitarave7316 5 лет назад

Great video, keep doing It so well, greetings from Spain

@brokentinman2278 5 лет назад

I've recently taken up bow making and archery; and out of many youtube vids yours have been the most informative and helpful. Thank you for your videos.

@Leverguns50 5 лет назад

That was interesting although I knew that, I would only add one thought self bows have to be longer because a single piece of wood will break if it’s too short and you try to drive back to far, typically yourself though can only be drawn to half of its length or less, and a composite or sinew backed bow can be drawn much further for its overall length sometimes called overdrawing the bow, but you presented it very well, i’m really enjoying your channel

@ZarlanTheGreen 5 лет назад

I'm kinda curious about the common depictions of bows, in fantasy, like those you show at 2:28. How did it come about? I suspect that it has somehow originates with composite bows, originally (why? I don't know ...but want to know), but somehow changed/morphed out of recognition (the how and why of which, again, I don't know, but want to)

@ShuajoX 5 лет назад

How much impact does the overall shape (not size) of a bow have on its performance? I've heard the siyahs on composite bows "store energy" before releasing the arrow.

@johnbarron4265 3 года назад

Generally, the more recurved the limbs are, the more energy the bow stores for a given draw weight, and the faster it can potentially launch arrows. Rigid siyahs are one way of achieving this. However, the siyahs do not, themselves, store energy since they are designed to be rigid. What they do is provide extra leverage for the archer to flex a short, stiff working limb. The geometric profile of the bow is only part of the equation though. You also have the tiller of the limbs which plays a role in performance. Generally, a limb that tapers only in width will launch arrows faster than a limb that tapers only in thickness when both are designed to be equally strong. Also, a limb with a narrow and deep cross section needs to be made very long to achieve the same draw length as a limb with a wide and thin cross section due to the stresses placed on the material from the curvature of bending. Therefore, a narrow and deep limb has a much greater moment of inertia and rebounds slower than the wide and thin limb. Short, wide and thin limbs with a lot of recurve, and a gradual width taper from root to tip, are the key to achieving fast arrow speeds. By adding rigid siyahs to the design, the bow string can be drawn farther back while maintaining the same amount of stress in the fibers of the working limb. The draw force stacking effect of the limbs is also reduced due to the more acute angle maintained between the string and the siyah. As a result, the bow stores more energy per unit draw weight at the archer's full draw length and launches heavy arrows faster than a design without rigid siyahs. However, the maximum possible speed of the bow with lightweight arrows is reduced by adding the siyahs. The lengths of the siyahs themselves vary in relation to the length of the working limbs in different cultures' designs, with the longest siyah bows being used to launch very long and heavy arrows, and short siyah bows being used to launch much shorter and lighter arrows at very high speeds.

@BIG-DIPPER-56 2 года назад

Same weight, so do they shoot at the same speed? The composite is faster - correct?

@sebastienraymond3648 5 лет назад

Very interesting. We have to realize that bows are associated with culture and regions of the world. Have you watched the latest video of "ryddragyn" titled "Depictions of Archers with Shields" ? I wonder if its a topic you would like to cover eventually. Because it's a very curious subject. Have a nice day.

@xllab1 5 лет назад

Several cultures used bows with a shield. The Persians for example could use a small shield together with a bow. The shield isn't covering the archer when drawing the bow though.

@ondrejh571 5 лет назад

If I break it down just to length itself, then the opposite is true - longer bows are weaker. Because if you take two bows of the same thickness of the limbs, material etc., and draw them at the same length, the shorter one will have bigger draw weight.

@Jhakaro 3 года назад

True but the shorter one will snap and therefore be useless so there'd be no such thing as two bows made of for example, wood alone, that this would apply to.

@user-cq5hq5ce8f 5 лет назад

The siyahs on the Istvan bow look completely different to the ones found on any Mongol bow. Where did they get that siyah design from?

@namelikeanyother885 3 года назад

Yeah his bows seem to largely be of a fantasy design.

@xanv8051 2 года назад

GOING to attempt making a long bow tomorrow having trouble figuring out how I'm going to make the string i have wood to use but rope I'm trying to figure out

@Giesela0815 5 лет назад

thanks for the info

@DemonicVelocity 5 лет назад

I still wonder, how many bows you own :D

@Mote. 2 года назад

Your curvy bow looks nice. I wonder if the curves are better than a standard shortbow.

@alexwat5433 5 лет назад

Nice vidéo. Could you make a video to compare the velocity of different bows with sale draw weight please ? : )

@markuscamenzind5510 5 лет назад

Look up Armin Hirmer from Malta archery

@griffin5226 5 лет назад

What advantages does a longer now provide over a short self bow? Are they more durable or efficient?

@NUSensei 5 лет назад

A short bow can only be pulled back to a certain maximum length, which means that you can't get as much power out of the bow. Overdrawing a short self-bow may cause it to break. So if you tried to make a bow from a random branch, for example, you're not going to get much out of it. If you make it thicker and, in a sense, stronger, you won't be able to pull it back because it isn't flexible enough. By lengthening the bow, you can have a stronger bow that can be pulled back to full draw.

@griffin5226 5 лет назад

@@NUSensei so is that pretty much the only advantage? A longer & safer draw?

@mikegrossberg8624 5 лет назад

@@griffin5226 The longer the bow, the less acute the angle of the string at the drawing point, thus you get less "pinch" with the Mediterranean draw(which is probably one of the reasons for using the thumb draw on short bows)

@aarondavis5386 4 года назад

You touched on this a little at the end, but to add some more detail: bows of the same draw weight will shoot the same arrow from the same draw length at different velocities. With all other factors but the bow being equal the the difference is in the amount of mass that has to be moved when the string is released. The mass of the arrow is part of that equation as is the string, but the biggest part of that mass is the bow limbs themselves. That mass has to be accelerated just as the arrow does. As you said it would be impossible to make a short self bow at war bow draw weights, but you can imagine a 20lb self bow with long and short variants. The short bow will have a faster arrow (again assuming all else is the same) every time. Taken to the extreme one of the volumes in the "traditional bowlers bible" series of books details a bowyer challenge to see who could make the _slowest_ bow at a 50 lbs draw weight the winner basically made a standard bow but left all of the wood in the bow stave beyond where the necks were filed into the limb tips resulting in a bow that could shoot arrows in the single digits of meters per second.

@jdjk7 5 лет назад

it might be long, and it might be strong, but it is down to get the friction on?

@eanjohnson6522 5 лет назад

You should do a review on the tradtech titan

@greenhoodedvigilante458 5 лет назад

I heard thumb draw gives more power in arrows than maditarian draw for same poundage. I am not sure. I am asking because composite bow user used to draw with thumb.

@janneheinonen621 5 лет назад

Extra power comes from the longer draw with thumb.

@vfc1860 5 лет назад

And more efficient release

@janneheinonen621 5 лет назад

@@vfc1860 What do you mean by that?

@vfc1860 5 лет назад

@@janneheinonen621 Less drag on the string with a thumb ring than with the mediteranean release. Like one trigger on a gun instead of 3 triggers

@janneheinonen621 5 лет назад

@@vfc1860 Ok, there could be some individual differences. I seem to get cleaner release with mediterranean. And I see the same with actually all the people I teach.

@Moonbow826 5 лет назад

The shorter bow with the same draw weight and length (as the longer bow) is usually more efficient and fires the same arrow further and faster.

@mortenjacobsen5673 5 лет назад

its not that simple and if you refereeing to the outdated recurved vs longbow limbs that too is not that simple

@Moonbow826 5 лет назад

@@mortenjacobsen5673 I know, but as a general rule of thumb, the shorter one should be faster. Of course there are countless other factors like material, shape (very important),...

@ryddragyn 5 лет назад

There are competing variables at play. Shorter can in theory mean less limb mass to move, and thus more efficiency, but then you also have to start recurving it to avoid stacking, which makes for a snappier bow with more early draw weight, but which also increases mass a bit. The horn and sinew required for extreme recurvature are also denser than wood. To get longer draw lengths, you may also have to tiller the bow to hinge in the inner limbs. That causes almost the entire limb to move as you draw the bow. And since W=fd, that decreases efficiency. A longer bow, by comparison, has a lot of limb mass, but it doesn't necessarily need to move it terribly far. It's complicated...

@Buran01 5 лет назад

@@ryddragyn Is not that complicated taking in consideration that with modern compounds every time a brand releases two or more versions of the same model with different axle to axle sizes the one with shorter ATA is always faster, more violent in the release (and has less forgiveness). Extending the same draw weight in a longer bow benefits smoothness, accuracy and stability (and is more comfy for the fingers) but reduces energy delivered and arrow speeds.

@Moonbow826 5 лет назад

@@ryddragyn wow, that was quite insightful. Love the reply and whole heartedly agree. I can also see that you know way more about bows than I do, so thank you for the insight : )

@musaadfelton3909 2 года назад

Yes that's true..it's not the size that matters. It's more the motion of the ocean. That's why China is the largest population even though things are smaller. China has discovered many arts like kamasutra etc so they know how to perform instead of depending on the length to perform

@herbertgearing1702 4 года назад

There are all kinds of factors that go into bow physics. Self bows can be very different based on the wood and the size and shape. Native American flat bows were deadly with as little as 35 lbs draw weight. The composite bows were a technological wonder compared to the self bow, however they were expensive and took a long time to make. You could crank out several dozen maybe a hundred long bows in the same amount of time as it takes to make one composite recurve bow.

@Yensil 5 лет назад

So in regard to self-bows, length is important, but not as important as girth. Reminds me of something else...

@Giesela0815 5 лет назад

I see what you did there ;)

@gregorywei4372 5 лет назад

What makes a recurve have a bigger punch than stick and string of the same draw weight

@PurpleDracos 5 лет назад

Gregory Weiß It’s due to the speed of the string trying to get back to its original position. This is a function of the materials of the limbs and the speed of the limb tips. In a longbow the tips will basically move at the same speed as other parts of the limb they are attached to. In a recurve with active limb tips they will be forced to unfurl some by drawing the bow so on release when they roll back to their initial shape they will move faster than other parts of the limb and get the string moving quicker. The other things that will have an effect is the materials the mass of the limbs and the efficiency of the materials in converting the stored energy back in to kinetic energy.

@gregorywei4372 5 лет назад

@@PurpleDracos danke

@gregorywei4372 5 лет назад

@@PurpleDracos one more quick question. What is the difference in the punch between a recurve and LB of the same draw weight?

@PurpleDracos 5 лет назад

Gregory Weiß That would depend on the mass of the arrow, the speed it left the bow and the speed it hits the target. There is probably a proper equation out there for this, but in general if the weight of the arrow is the same the speed at the target will likely be higher for the one shot from the recurve given they usually will have an initial speed around 30-40 FPS faster. This equates to more energy at the point of impact given the arrows have traveled the same distance.

@Mote. 2 года назад

I pulled my old bow out of my closet i haven't shot since I was a kid. I can't use it cause i live in an urban place with small yard. I miss archery. Also my bow i bought at a flea market for 5 dollars with my dad and its actually awesome. It still is in good condition because it's fiberglass not wood.

@aaronluna4341 5 лет назад

I’ve been building and selling primitive bows since 2007. Mostly sinew backed bows as well as Native American replicas such as the infamous Sudbury bow. I’ve picked up quite a bit of information regarding the physics of archery over the years. One person I learned a lot from is primitive survivalist John McPherson. I’ve chatted with him over the years. Tim Baker being another expert on the subject. Brace yourself, this is going to be a long one. In regards to the question - Is a longbow more powerful? A lot of variables exist in that question which the gentleman in the video touches up on quite well. A longer and heavier stick is harder to swing than a short and heavy stick. In other words, more energy (elastic potential) is required to spring the limbs back into place on a longer bow. It really strikes home with bows in the length range of 65-74 inches nock to nock. Above 74”, efficiency is reduced. A shorter bow pulling 50# at 26” draw length will always shoot slower than a longbow of equal draw weight and draw length. Longer bows are just faster, all else being equal. It’s when you get composite materials such as horn and sinew that allow for a longer draw on a shorter bow do you see increase in arrow velocity/cast. Mass plays a big factor in performance. A wider bow is safer, as the tension and compression is spread out, but a thin bow in terms of width will have the less mass. But of course, in order for a bow to be made thin, it should be built longer, distributing the tension and compression out over a longer surface. When I make bows from smaller trees (2-4 inch diameter) their exists what is called a crown. When you cut a log in half, their is a rounded part along the back where the bark and cambium was. The higher the crown, the more tension is concentrated on a narrow strip of wood along the back of the bow. In reality, roughly 30% of all tension is taking place in 10% of the wood. Their exist a part of the bow called the “neutral plane”. It is a portion right in the middle of the limb that is exerting ZERO tension or compression. Numbers and science aside, longer bows store more energy and they impart more energy to the arrow than a short bow. Energy does not equate to more power in all cases. A 30# longbow may be more efficient, but a 60# horn bow will have more kinetic energy. Draw weight can be tailored for any bow WITH the design for the bow wood as well as quality of the wood in mind. For example- I would NEVER build a 150# warbow from material such as Black Willow or Birch. So the answer should be clear- a well built longbow or short bow can become more powerful in terms of pure kinetic energy if the draw weight is high and the efficiency is ok. Meaning as much energy is imparted to the arrow as possible. A high draw weight but inefficient bow design will always be less lethal than a lower draw weight with high efficiency. Without sinew/horn, a short bow will never be as powerful as a longbow of the same draw weight. Remember, arrow velocity plays a factor in kinetic energy. Sorry for the rant guys, but in a nutshell, both bows are equal in power, but a longbow will always be more efficient. Those are number that have been crunched and calculated to truth. I still prefer a longbow. A couple coats of beeswax/fat and I can shoot in all weather conditions. A sinew backed bow will eventually suffer. Thanks for the video bud. I’m glad you share my passion of archery, as well as whoever reads this. -Aaron

@Intranetusa 3 года назад

Many short bows built in the recurve style are actually not that short (some are quite long if you measure them from end to end with the bend). Bows with recurve and/or reflex shape are also more efficient than D-shaped bows. Bows made of composite materials are also more efficient also allows greater efficiency than self bows made with one material. So if we're comparing a D-shaped longbow made of one piece of wood vs a D-shaped shortbow made one one piece of the same type of wood, the longbow will be superior in efficiency. However, shortbows that are made with recurve and composite materials end up with superior efficiency, especially if they're capable of similar or longer draw lengths - such as Mongol bow, or the larger Manchu bow with very long draw lengths of ~36 inches or longer.

@GrasshopperKelly 5 лет назад

Weeabow: "Em but the long bow is the best bow in the world! Myaaa!"

@ondrejh571 5 лет назад

2:55 I have to disagree with you - it has a lot to do with how strong a bow is. If you take two bows that differs only in the thickness of the working (bending) parts, than the thicker one will be stronger. And as I wrote in the first comment, if you on the other hand change just the length, the shorter one will be stronger.

@mortenjacobsen5673 5 лет назад

yeah let just totally disregard tiller, difference in elasticity, sound, vibration, and material density, limb cross section ..dynamic efficiency

@ondrejh571 5 лет назад

@@mortenjacobsen5673 I feel like you missed my point here. Size just (measurements) matters as much, if not more than other aspects of bow construction.

@mortenjacobsen5673 5 лет назад

@@ondrejh571 no stress distribution matters more if the materials cant take it they will break

@gibbeldon 5 лет назад

I've read the japanese Yumi was used by Samurai on horseback. That was how the asymmetric proportions probably came to be. It seems funny how size wouldn't even matter when riding a horse.

@kyomademon453 5 лет назад

Well they rode on ponies and shoot while standing on the stirrups at almost walking speed

@juffurey Год назад

Interestingly, Guild Wars, the best MMORPG created, the bows all had the same damage, and the differences are in range, speed, arc, armor penetration, fire rate, and there were 5 types of bows. And I never like playing ranger but I thought that was really cool.

@NUSensei Год назад

I grew up on Guild Wars. I actually went back to record footage of GW Ranger gameplay for a special episode and did a whole playthrough with Ranger (though I was Ele on my main and mostly played Monk or Ranger for PvP). But carrying a Longbow on weapon switch to get pull aggro is an ingrained mechanic.

@MountainHomeJerrel 5 лет назад

G'day mate. I enjoy your channel, but you should check the title of this video. "Tropes" is not correct or relevant in this context. You're probably looking for "Misconceptions" or "Stereotypes".This is a just a friendly comment. Keep up the great work.

@NUSensei 5 лет назад

Good point. These were placeholder titles for the playlist. I think I know what to rebrand it as.

@padalan2504 5 лет назад

Hi, I have a question about the production of the mongolian bows and also one suggestion. Question: We have this image of the mongols being on large plains, taking care of horses and raiding when they need other resources. I know that's not anything close to reality, so I want to ask. Where and what resources did they use? I don't think the wood could be just any old stick, so which type of wood was preferred? what animal did they use to get the horns needed for their bows and was it a big deal to them or was hunting for the animals enough to supply the army? (what else were horns used for in this age? I can't think of much things other than bows, drinking and making glue) Was a specific animal sinew required, or was it just anything they would have at the time? Suggestion: A lot of channels that are dealing with these historical themes and realism in weapon designs (like Shad or Skallagrim) focus on the melee weapons. It would be interesting to see your opinion on fantasy design of ranged weapons and show us what really matters when designing the bows as functional. *if you are going to do this I hope you keep an open mind, sometimes these types of videos can devolve to not liking anything that doesn't look historical. But even if that would be the case with bows I'd like to see what you have to say anyway. That's all, thanks.

@dawnrazornephilim 5 лет назад

I watched a few bow making video's and they use tendons for the sinew.

@artebirklaus 5 лет назад

@@dawnrazornephilim "Tendon" and "sinew" are synonyms.

@dawnrazornephilim 5 лет назад

@@artebirklaus There you go, it must be my lucky day as I have learnt something, thanks.

@artebirklaus 5 лет назад

@@dawnrazornephilim Wow, nice attitude =) Happy surprise! People so often get offended when you correct them (understandably, to some extent). I personally welcome it. I misspelled "bicycle" and "elephant" while streaming live just recently, and my viewers let me know it (among many other things). Have a good day! You made mine!

@joshuasmit5137 5 лет назад

but what about a long composite bow?

@abdullahyusof4739 5 лет назад

We call those Manchu bows

@dreadlock375 5 лет назад

Impossible.....

@maxlarsen Год назад

Can`t compare tree to fiberglass though, fiberglass was not used that time.

@kenanwood6916 5 лет назад

I miss olympic archery videos.

@cyropower7808 5 лет назад

Hopefully there's more in the future

@CristiNeagu 5 лет назад

The shorter the bow, the more the limbs need to move when at full draw. For a given draw weight, the more the limbs move the less stiff they need to be due to Hooke's law. And this is why a longer bow is stiffer, therefore stronger, depending on your definition.

@andrew_kell 4 года назад

Regarding RPGs. Dungeons and Dragons that most of games are based on is very simple and general. But if I want to design a better home rules - I need more realistic physics. What would be the correct progression/regression of damage and distance with human strength? Let's assume a 25 pound bow as a 'norm'. How much more damage would be from a 50 pound bow? Or 75? Or 100? The same question with distance and precision. How much maximum distance changes with different draw weight? How much precision changes? How distance and precision depends on bow strength in general? Let's assume that users of each of those bow can normally handle that bow and yet has the same skill level.

@NUSensei 4 года назад

25# is far from the norm - it's a basic beginner level. A better benchmark would be a 40# bow from around 20-30 metres, which is what would be expected in a hunting environment. A broadhead will puncture a deer's organs at this distance. Bows that are 100# and above are designed to penetrate padded armour and mail. As draw weight goes up, it becomes much more difficult to handle as it requires more physical exertion, so one can expect that unless one has achieved mastery and full conditioning, accuracy would drop.

@verdantgrottobarbell5279 3 года назад

@Andrew Kell Sorry this is a year old post but here are my thoughts : Refer to the K.I.S.S. Acronym Keep it simple sir They already have the logistics for what you’re asking about. There are “composite bows“ that require certain STR to use. i.e.. +1,+2,+3,+4 Composite Bows (Both Short and Long Versions) These essentially have a To-hit and dmg bonus Relatively speaking Regular Short bows = 1d6 (Shorter range penalties for accuracy) Regular Long bows = 1d8 (Longer range penalties) In regards to draw weight, one could assume short bows are 40 and long bows are 50. Whereas composite bows start at 60 and add 10 for each +1 bonus. Just my 0.02

@mikegrossberg8624 5 лет назад

I think your longbow needs a higher brace height(unless you use only VERY short fletching.) My 5-6 inch fletches would never fit

@jkre 5 лет назад

Self longbows or any self bows normal brace height is around 6", if its too high it will only cause unnessessery stress to the wood and only cause the bow to loose power and shortens the life of the bow.

@mikegrossberg8624 5 лет назад

@@jkre As it happens, I've been using a red oak English style selfbow for about 15 years. I set the brace height by "fistmele", placing the fist, with thumb extended, against the belly of the bow and having the string just touching the tip of the thumb. In MY case, that's about 6 1/2" inches. You're correct about a bow being overstrung, but there are also problems caused by being UNDERstrung. It ALSO loses power and causes stress

@aeliascent1174 5 лет назад

Size doesn't matter. It's how you use it that does. ;)

@romainsavioz5466 5 лет назад

It matters in the outerworld

@farqitol 5 лет назад

Motion of the ocean, not the size of the boat.

@Yensil 5 лет назад

Girth > Length

@fi4re 5 лет назад

If that's the case, then why are longbows long? It would seem that everyone would prefer a smaller bow, if all else was equal.

@NUSensei 5 лет назад

A shorter self-bow can't be drawn very far. A longer stave is necessary to have both the draw weight and the draw length. Composite bows achieve that through its recurved design, and the siyahs especially provide the leverage at long draws.

@epic0wnag 5 лет назад

Wood as a material basically cannot flex enough to make a short bow. You have to make it long so that it would have a gradual flex and not snap.

@gustavotriqui 5 лет назад

I'm not an expert, but just seeing in the video someone making a longbow and someone making a composite bow, it looks like the girl doing all the work to combine sinew, horn, wood, and rope, had a lot more things to do than the one polishing a chunk of wood. I think if you have the wood to make them, easier to make longbows are a smart decision. Mongols probably didn't have the kind of wood needed for it, so they used the materials available in their region to achieve the same resoults.

@robsarchery9679 4 года назад

I like the hugarian bow

@cloudrouju526 5 лет назад

It's all about energy transfer. The title of this video is slightly ambiguous. For the same kind of bow, longer/bigger does mean stronger, having said this, I suspect there exists an upper limit to a bow size that further increase in size may actually lessen the efficiency of energy transfer, hence from that point on, size is no longer proportional to power. Back to main point. Of course size is not the only factor determining the power of the bow. In addition to what were emphasized in the clip, material and size in all 3 dimensions (not just length), shape and design are just as crucial if not more so. From a simple recurve to recurve reflex to a complex system of pulleys, these all are ways to shorten the length of the bow while maintaining its power.

@Buran01 5 лет назад

I suspect that high pundage warbows (military longbows) which raged from #80 to #180+ were very inefficient compared to both recurved bows and horse bows with similar draw weight. You can see Tex Grebner shooting (which has #100 recurved, #100 takedown recurved and even a #100 mongolian horse bow) shooting with them in batches of 25+ arrows, whereas every time in youtube someone showcases "a #100+ warbow" they struggle to release a few shoots, and they are neither impressive in terms of arrow speed or accuracy.

@cloudrouju526 5 лет назад

Buran01 well a longbow compared to a recurve with the same draw weight is much more cumbersome obviously. the advantage of the longbow over the recurve is that it relies less on the quality of the material and craftsmanship of the bow since the mechanical stress is distributed over larger area and more material. Therefore given the similar amount of available material, one can make the argument that longbows is relatively easier to mass produce comparing to recurves or horsebows, therefore more efficient in warfares.

@Buran01 5 лет назад

@@cloudrouju526 But Persians, Ottomans and Mongols built empires over archers riding horses while using compound bows, whereas England had to wait for the gun powder and the rise or their navy to do the same. Despite all the ridiculous-katana-level mystification the long bow carries, it left a smaller footprint in the western battlefields and warfare than compound short horse bows left.

@cloudrouju526 5 лет назад

Buran01 I agree with your base premise , but I don't think one should reduce the historical domination of any particular nation to the existence of a single weapon. The logic behind the point I was trying to make still stands. The less production cost (both in terms of human resource and natural resources) the weapon requires, the easier it can be produced and repaired, therefore the more efficient it is in warfare. Of course I'm talking about weapons that are practical and effective, not a simple slingshot.

@professorgryphonsmuseumofb5380 2 года назад

Very top notch presentations but why not have some more natural background instead of a metal shed? I find the modern stuff distracting while trying to focus on wisdom that reflects back centuries ?!

@kumosi9437 3 года назад

The Mongol bow is not as large and long as the English one, but it is vastly more powerful. The draw weight of an English longbow averages around 70-80 pounds, whereas the Old Mongol bow had a pull that, according to George Vernadsky, averaged at around 166 pounds. Chambers states that the pull varied from 100 to 160 pounds. This seeming discrepancy certainly reflects the fact that draw weight varied with the strength of the user, and with what use the bow had been made for. As could be expected, there was a considerable difference in shooting range. Whereas the English longbow could shoot at distances up to 250 yards or around 228 meters, the Mongol counterpart can hit its target at 350 yards or 320 meters and, if the archer is well trained for the task, even beyond that.

@MrLantean 3 года назад

The modern Mongol bow is modeled on the Manchu bow. When the Manchus occupied China and Mongolia, they ordered that only Manchu bow was used as the standardized bow for military archers. The recorded range of the English longbow is 412.82 meters or 451.46 yards achieved in 2017 by Hungarian master archer József Mónus while the recorded range of the composite bow is 566.83 m or 619.89 yards achieved by a Norwegian archer Ivar Malde in 2019 using a Turkish composite bow.

@kumosi9437 3 года назад

@@MrLantean As if I said "modern" lol

@MrLantean 3 года назад

@@kumosi9437 I simply mention how does modern Mongol bow look like. 😞

@gizmonomono 4 года назад

The more important question is thicker vs thinner 😁

@seddam 2 года назад

it is not just mongols, it's used by all Asian steppe people, way before mongols invaded world. mostly by Turkic nations.

@luverneanimatics8769 5 лет назад

I thought that long bow is an Asian bow cause there is Japanese or Chinese inscription at the bottom part of the bow!

@bentasker6764 5 лет назад

Remember size dosent matter

@dreadlock375 5 лет назад

Really? You're just gonna steal a comment FROM THE SAME VIDEO

@bentasker6764 5 лет назад

@@dreadlock375 wrote it before he said it sos

@dreadlock375 5 лет назад

@@bentasker6764 do you know the difference between a month and 6 days?

@oscarclaudio2848 5 лет назад

Well lets be honest this prhase is older than you think

@Hornythorynque 5 лет назад

Longer means more flaccid

@georgeparaschivescu4819 5 лет назад

is that an UFO at 2:02 ?

@dawnrazornephilim 5 лет назад

Airplane, he goes to the Morrabin carchery club and there is the Morrabin airport, I assume he lives near by and you can see a plane taking off.

@ZarlanTheGreen 5 лет назад

_All else being equal,_ longer bows _are_ stronger ...but, of course, all else isn't always equal.

@rodparsons6719 5 лет назад

Look at it like this, all else being equal, a longer bow distributes the load over a greater length of wood. Simple.

@aarondavis5386 4 года назад

Not so simple. Longer bows have more mass in their limbs that will eat any extra energy to be accelerated resulting in a slower arrow when all other variables are the same.

@Buran01 5 лет назад

For a given draw weight Horse bows are more efficient than recurve bows and recurve bows more efficient than long bows. That's why you get faster arrow speeds (being # and arrow the same) with hb>recurve>longbow. In fact, the japanese yumi, which had the largest bows in size, probably were the worse in the pundage/arrow speed ratio.

@vfc1860 5 лет назад

The most important aspects of bows are the weight (mass principle) of the limbs, the amount of reflex or recurve in the limbs and the physical ability of the wood/horn/sinew to hold the energy. Its that simple....The Mongols were raiders:):0:)

@explosivefreak666 5 лет назад

GOD.!! Being BORED TO DEATH.!!

@stevehuffman7453 2 года назад

I REALLY don't need 1 minutes plus of ads you can't click out of before the video starts, plus only you and YT knows how many that interrupt the video mid-word. Another channel to avoid. 😠

@mohdtalhaansari2122 5 лет назад

Only taking shoot

@pauljermyn5909 5 лет назад

English Long bows are to get a heavy arrow a long distance, horse bows/small composite bows are to get an arrow very quickly and powerfully over shorter distances, both deadly when used for their purpose.

@neniAAinen 5 лет назад

English longbow was meant to penetrate armor. You won't penetrate armor from a long range. Small/horse composite bows are different. First of all, not all of them are small. Second, at least some of eastern bow traditions were meant to be used as armor piercing bows with very heavy arrows just as well. Others placed premium on longer ranges with lighter arrows, and so on. Next, not all asian bows(and warbows) were even composite to begin with. In some places and cultures, they even coexisted. It isn't "english bow" vs "asian bow". Medieval England was but a small, remote backyard of the world. Other countries had just as unique types and practices. It is just what we know mostly european(more often - exactly western european) practice, and there only English bowmen really were eminent in a predominantely crossbow lands.

@epic0wnag 5 лет назад

Composite Bows are much more diverse in design than longbows. They are many variations. Some of them shoot very large arrows over relatively short distances like the manchu bow. Which is the most heavy duty composite bow design, and it is easily matches or surpasses the English longbows power. Many turkish bows however could shoot extreme distances. In flight shooting competition distances of over 400 yards were not uncommon. Granted, in combat they would not shoot this far, but the main point is that there are several different composite bow designs all trying to achieve different goals whereas the English longbow is mostly about powerful bows and heavy arrows.

@Buran01 5 лет назад

@@neniAAinen Longbow grew in length due wasn't envisaged to be used on a mount, and the lack of recurving made it less efficient, so they had to add length and mass to the limbs to increase the poundage. And has more success against the mounts than against the armors, mostly because rising archers was cheaper than equipping heavy armored cavalry. But think that while horse archery itself was able to built vast empires, england had to wait to the gun powder and the rise of their navy to achieve supremacy.

@neniAAinen 5 лет назад

@@Buran01 Length isn't a limitation per se: extremely long japanese Yumi was meant for horse archery, and it actually was a very effective weapon. Western european horse archers(every proper knight lance included one!) actually tried to shoot from horseback in battles(and certainly did so in less grand occasions); they just were ineffecient at it(not only because of bow), so they quickly evolved into a slightly lighter man-at-arms. To be fair, though, composite bow wasn't equal to premier mounted archer forces either. Tbh, i am sure it is still an incomplete picture, for i know literally nothing about South Asian and SEA bows.

@Buran01 5 лет назад

@@neniAAinen Japanese archers had the natural advantage of an enviroment in which the use of shields was mostly absent. Defense against arrows in feudal Japan was also comparatively weaker due the scarceness in iron to build proper chainmails and heavy plate armor, so no wonder they had success in that lanscape. But I disagree about the envisionment of the compound bow as "lacking" compared to the western bows.

@oneofthechosen874 5 лет назад

Traditional bows spits an arrow faster than a longbow of the same poundage.

@Aron-ru5zk 5 лет назад

Mohd Mustafa a long bow is a traditional bow... Actually since it’s a stick and string it’s the most traditional a traditional bow can be

@assaultspoon4925 5 лет назад

@@Aron-ru5zk A carved stick bow? Do you want a sight and an arrow rest too? Real men only use uncarved sticks(bark included) tied together with animal furs.