Archery: Yes, bows break! 

Just cancelled my YZDW order, waited over 2 months they keep pushing me to buy their top line version (I ordered the basic) and kept me waiting. This video just convinced me it is correct to not support them, can't ever support a company that will not support the customers.

Also, if he has that bow replaced and pays for the decoration and shipping, he will never feel so happy with it , it is tainted in his mind. What a shame that a company does not regard their own reputation highly, or their customers highly.

Was really interested to buy this bow... But I will NOT do business with a company like that one. Thanks for sharing your bad experience. Yes, archery community is small and, luckily, has good memory...

you got a subscriber from me ,this is the kind of honesty needed in archery world

Thanks for letting us know so we don’t buy expensive Trash

Excellent presentation. Thank you Armin. I am a professional luthier (guitar builder) of over 15 years, preceded in life as a furniture designer, and industrial product designer. I would like to share some practical information about any woods, construction, and what can lead to repeated failure. Whenever you laminate or edge glue woods of different density, the woods are going to expand and contract (move) due to ambient humidity (moisture absorption/release) at different rates. This alone can cause the glue failure of a lamination or a glue joint. When you add in laminations of synthetic man made materials, it is more difficult what the variations of materials movement. Gluing of wood to wood is dependent of the glue type and consistent quality used to "mechanically bond to the wood cells of each wood together. If you are gluing woods of very different density, you should expect them to potentially fail because they also have different wood grain pores. One wood softer wood specie may glue well, and the more dense not so much. Gluing also requires very good surface-to-surface "fit", quality glues with consistent bonding/drying properties, and appropriate clamping pressure during the gluing. Poor surface-to-surface fit, and you will require a "gap filling glue" to bond them, but "gap filled" joints typically fail. Wood grain orientation. The way trees are processed via sawing at a mill produces different types of wood grain orientation. Vertical grain, Quarter sawn, Riff sawn, and Flat sawn. Vertical grain and Quarter sawn wood grain will resist bending. They produce stronger construction where you need it. Riff and Flat sawn grain orientation are more flexible. They are also more likely to have wood grain separation under a load. Many bows are identified as utilizing Riff and Flatsawn wood grain orientation. Fewer bows can be seen having VG or Quartersawn wood used in the handle/riser part of the bows. These bows limbs attached to this wood grain tend to not bend much, until the limb material leaves the VG or Quartersawn wood. You can witness this in the drawing of certain bows. So, how do you know what you are getting? Observation, reputation, and a written warranty from the manufacturer. A good manufacturer should warrant a well made product they stand behind. The seller of the bow is not the manufacturer, unless the manufacturer is selling directly. Ask to see their warranty and notice what it covers. If they don't have one, shop around.

Holy cow, six hundred dollars and they were difficult about replacement. All my bows have been sub £150 and the string bridge came off my Korean horsebow, not only are they replacing it, but they are paying the postage, as a result I’m more willing to buy a more expensive bow from them in the future. There is no way I’d pay more money to get a $600 bow replaced, your stepping into a sunk cost fallacy territory there, but then again I ain’t in any position to spend that kind of money on one bow, I have 5 bows currently and together I haven’t spent $600. I can’t be the only one, I reckon the number of people willing to spend that much money on what amounts to a fancy stick, is going to be pretty small, surely they can’t afford to not only make sure they lose this customer, but get a bad reputation. Madness.

I agree with Abdul. Your a totally honest dude and customers appreciate that.

Great video, honesty is always the best route. Especially when you own a business. Just like in archery, just shoot it straight and you won't have any problems.

Your aproach towards this is best...👍

I love your honesty and integrity. I’m just getting started in archery and came across your channel and have already learned a lot. This helped me to trust your opinion even more. When this damn pandemic is over, I think I will be doing an archery vacation in Malta! Armin, thanks for all your wonderful teachings.

You are a really great and brave man, Armir Thanks for thinking in us.

The true test of a quality company is not when the bows react as they should & everything is fine, but when their product fails. Adversity displays the true nature of relationships. If the company doesn't stand behind its product, then customers should stay away from them.

As an owner of that particular bow, I am saddened by their treatment. I think they make nice looking products. Many of them are from their in-house workshop. I personally haven't had too many issues with YZDW but still, it's not a good look for them. Sorry to hear that you and Christopher went through this experience.

Very wise man very wise words brother well said

As a combat archer who's been on the SCA field for 18 years, I've seen a fair number of injuries related to bows breaking. It's a terrible thing to experience, even secondhand. Thank you for sharing this video. It's a shame that the one company couldn't do better.

Severe but fair! It is the only way to deal with companies that look only at profit at all costs.

I had an AF longbow collapse by itself while i left it strung for a day, they sent me a new one in two weeks! Ive worked with fibreglass all my life and your right on how it doesn't always like to be mated with other mediums. Most companies these days understand how to grow, customer care, reputation is all. Beauty Armi.

I saw someone mentioning about his experience with a YZDW's laminated Manchu bow which was broken. Although the person who told the story accepted the explanation from YZDW that it was due to the fact that this person is shooting with a Khatra-like technique, thus the siyahs were pulled sideway, causing the bowstring unable to be caught by the string bridges resulting a turnover of the bow and finally resulted a exploded bow; but I find it shocking as I am unaware of the fact that a normal bow that we use would be broken just because a khatra-like technique is applied. This person would still recommend YZDW's product and service to other people and took full responsibility of the broken Manchu bow. I guess I am kinda speechless after seeing this conversation.

dear armin, i think it is a good sign for your customers that you stopped doing business with that chinese company. they see that they cannot only trust your words but also your actions. if some companies even replace bows without guarantee anymore, this specific chinese company should have an eye on not losing more and more customers. i have big respect for you and i believe that there are not really many people who will dislike you now after your step. in my opinion you are one of the most important bow reviewers on youtube and it's more than straight to maintain this status. that's why people book you, that's why people buy from you. i wish you the best, manu

I truly enjoy all your videos. You teach as well as review, and I find I'm learning more about the Art of archery, as well as style and proper technique. At the same time, it really refreshing to see that you your integrity is strongly intact. It is not seen, today, as much as it is needed, and I, for one, am grateful. Thank you, sir.

Thanks for making this video. A difficult and very sensitive subject.

Thank you Armin for everything you do for all of us out here all over the world. Your a straight up guy with loads of great advice. Thank you for ways being bold and standing on what you know is right or wrong, good or bad. I just ordered from Alibow and I'm waiting for it to come in. I knew that if you speak highly of something that I can trust it. Most of the reason I ordered from them is because you speak so highly of them so often, and use them yourself also. I can tell from your reviews that you always speak exactly what you feel to be true. Thanks again.

Sock it to them Armin, I started watching your vids about 3 months ago, customer care is essential in any business. Your demeanour and explaining things is not unlike an old Sensi of mine, I would trust buying from you as I think you have the spirit of Archery, a clear mind at the point of loose.

Hi Armin, like you I have dealt with a number of companies and on the whole, have experienced great customer care and have had very few problems. I know in the archery world some folk suspect the quality of bows from Chinese companies; this is not my experience. Perhaps some circumspection is necessary with regard to cheap bows, but a high end, high quality $600 bow should be backed with an ironclad guarantee. Tis their loss Sir and extremely short sighted of them.

Heart shattering to see such conditions of these beautiful bows😭specially when it has a efforts of urs sir...

Splice the good ends together and make some hybrids. Just kidding of course. Good information and great video.

Dear Armin, it’s quite simple really, you’re a good guy and you give good service and free advice in a World that just doesn’t ’ give a shit........ They just want the money. You should tell us the name of the Company .......

All the Craftsmen watching this Raw Nerve Opening are Quietly saying, "Don't Go There?" Great Stuff, some things are so hard to say. Beauty Islander.

Perfectly valid response. Cancel any further business, and get the word out. Saving $600 in profit suddenly starts being more expensive for the company. My only suggestion is that you should have the bow company name in the title so this video will show up for people searching for YZDW reviews.

Tough topic. I guess I can understand why some bowyers might be suspicious as they have no real way of gauging the experience or truthfulness of the buyer. But, like you said, in a community this small, it is probably wise to give the user the benefit of the doubt. These type of bowyers are so niche and unique in the first place that it's almost a given that the buyer is well versed and has done his research in even finding them. If the bowyer is going to take a hardline approach, that's fine, but they should have it in bright lights on the website, and then that can be taken under consideration when you buy from them. After having one English Longbow break on me (only bow of mine to ever break), it was a requirement the next one I bought had at least a year warranty. I have a 60-year-old recurve that probably has 10,000 or more of my own shots through it and is still going strong.

I know a lot of people see "Chinese bow" and think "cheap," but the Chinese people have been building bows for a long, long time. They know how to do it. It is the same with Korean or any other Asian country. Bows are not a new thing. This is why I had no hesitation about spending $300 for my bow. I fully expect it to last the rest of my life. :-) That said, wood grain can fail. Glue joints can fail. It happens. The company has to stand behind their products, or word will get around this small community, as it should. There are enough great companies, that we don't have to do business with those who don't live up to the standards of quality that we are paying our hard earned money for. It is easy to look at that limb (just from this video) and see that there is no twist in it. A twist would show in the outer laminate. It failed while being pulled straight. This is the owner's 10th bow, so he is not some newbie. YZDW needs to rethink this and make it right.

Love it! Try to pump up the volume though; I have it all the way up and can still barely hear it! I had to turn on the CC (closed captioning)! ;)

Had a friend in college who bought a re-curve and it cracked in the grip area due to a flaw in the grain. The company replaced it with no questions asked. Reputation of a company matters, and customer service matters even more.

Good customer service is vital, a disgruntled customer can and will cost the manufacturer business and if the retailer equally has a similar attitude then sadly their future is darkened. However if the retailer does everything possible for the customer they will look better and if they refuse to sell that makers products it speaks volumes! Good customer service is vital!

Thanks - I'll certainly take this company's attitude into account when I buy my next bow. It's only when things go wrong that companies show their true colours - this company must think very little of their reputation.

Awesome content as always :) You're providing necessary feedback to customers and companies and that's very important. I remember another video where you pointed out binding issues with their manchu arrows also. Honesty and integrity : priceless :) Many thanks for constantly looking out :)

I had the same problem with one korean company. They didn't replace my delaminated bow. He said he'd give a discount on the next bow but the next time I talked to him he took it back and just offered me freebies I don't need.

Thank you for your honesty and integrity. I have had two sets of limbs with which I have had problems. One company replaced the limbs with a newer upgraded model as they no longer had the poundage in the same model. The second offered me thirty per cent discount off the next set of their very expensive limbs. I have since become aware that the second companies limbs are enjoyed to be very prone to failures. It seems that some companies stand unreservedly by the products they make and others have so many problems they cannot.

That company has lost business. I'll stay away from them. Thank you for a great vid.

Who not to buy from is great information also. Thanks

Armin, always great to see your great, fair and frankly recensions and other stuff. Terrible to hear about behaviour of that company. Keep on doing great stuff (Y) Honestly, didn't have such experiences. My first cheap Magyar bow's siyah splitted after 6 years of usage. Reason: kept in inproper place for some time and nock didn't fit bowstring (kind of dry fire + inproper condition) Consequence: fixed it and still shoots great. Mongol killer Conquest bow by Medicinebows - siyahs took a bit twist after 3 years. Reason: kept in inproper conditions for some time + I strung it step in method instead over the knees (safest method for organic bows). After fixing the twist strung it over the knees with helper, still shoots rockets and not arrows, killer shark. Didn't have any problem with Serbian Tiron laminate by Miško Rovčanin by now (1 year), killer shark. Recently received aaaawesome horn bow reconstruction of bow from Serbian Empire period by Matthias Lehner. 100 times sweating during stringing, used strictly over the knees technique, took care of humidity, was teaching limbs to bend first. Then carefully stringing, sweating...like I first time took my daughter in my hands. My 84yo mom helped me stringing for first time. Gosh! Beauty, treasure! Was teaching still undressed bow to bend slightly 50 times. Done it everyday and drawn it. In the field, it shoots like Great White, no any twist, extremely stable, super fast. Checkin' from time to time. Have to dress it and do lacquer. If it ever break it will be my fault, am sure 99,9%. To be honest, I do not shoot so often but if bow breaks after first stringings and shooting it is hardly my fault.

I like these VDO.

Thats the reason i only made and shoot fibberglass bows. Very foolproof, resilent and toughest, and very profficient if it is well made. After all this, if you have troubles with a broken tip or siyahs, it is very easy to replace it

Well said sir. They don’t stand behind their products such shame.

thank you for sharing this info Armin. I'm glad you are honest and forward about this type of situation. shame the company couldn't do the same, especially for the cost. great video as always!

This is the reason why I contemplate whether or not to buy $300-450 Korean laminated type of bow i.e. Kaya KTB. I use a $100 fiberglass bow currently , but that's because the bowyers is one the best in Malaysia for cheap traditional designed bow.

Always enjoy your videos. Seldom dissappointed, always informative. Much appreciated.

the truth has to be said. Your a good bowman archer and you do sell a lot for different companies and they know how to treat you and as its not your fault it should be handled with respect. well that company did not give a shit so forget about them. keep up the great work

I'm considering an Istvan Toth bow. I'll have to look into their reputation on replacing the occasional faulty bow. This is a important thing to consider. Thanks, Armin!

I agree, if a company want warranty there product, is not worth selling and taking a chance on your hurting your reputation. I know I build primitive bows and some just break. Even after 200 shoots. But I always try to make it right. For my on reputation.

Sarmart archery bamboo bows are almost indestructible

Like that you just tell it like it is. I enjoy your videos.

Great video.Imre Nagy stands behind his.

From watching your videos for some time, I know you are a sincere person who wants to promote the art. You were in an unfortunate position with the manufacturer who was unwilling to co-operate to the best interest of themselves, you as the "middle man" and the end customer. You would think that they would want the best reputation they can achieve - but sometimes the need to make money rules out empathy. You did the right thing in making this video.

3:43 They glued hockey sticks together :|

Thank you! I recognize this bow. I was about about to buy one of their bio-composites. Definitely having second thoughts. Cheers form Anchorage! -m

When we look at cars we want reliability, maybe slower not reving so hi, but if it last long that's what should matter. If I sell my bow I build, it's not most epic mostly self bow, I do 500 shots, abuse it, over draw, and then I know it will last, bows being build out wood and fiber, rather then traditional materials, some bows have very agrasive forms that wood can't handle.

Ohw!!so sad I'm really hurt to see that

I don't find amything to say to that. I'm rather suprised the company in question didn't know you, given your presence in the traditional archery world, and the bad publicity that comes with your notoriety. As a company handling trad bows, there are a few people you really need to have on your side. The favt that they completly either ignore that, or just don't care about it just crosses them off my list of trustworthy chinese manufacturers.

Loved the intro matrix of the broken bows. Man that would be a nightmare for my bow to break right now! I’m saving my lunch money to get The Black Hunter and the Ming Emperor III. If my bow breaks right now it means no archery for me for a while and that would suck big time. So I put my bow in a closet so it does not over heat or it gets too cool.

Yes they do... my wife had a horn tip come off and we've had and older fiberglass bow develop a crack in its upper limb

Can you make a video on how to properly string different bows?

I just spent 3 days building a California bay laurel self bow. Worked great for awhile, but today it broke. Wish I could contact the manufacturer for a warranty replacement, but I would ignore myself.

good topic and thx for sharing :-)

Better for me , 'cause I'm making my own bows ...😊😊😊 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Really good and interestig topic, I just can say that I agree.

That is a company I will be wary of then! What a sick feeling that just gave me....mostly everyone knows that feeling, and is usually made to feel better by a replacement, and the company owns up?

Can you get hurt when a bow breaks? Great video by the way, thanks for them. I'm hooked even though I don't do archery.

what a shame some companies are like this ,guess I won’t buy from them too.

New to archery in its entirety (hands on wise) Been about two and half months since my intrest was resparked And so far I've made probably 5 different prototypes until I got my final product on the 6th try of which I'm admittedly extremely proud of and wish I could show you all Anyway i never shot a bow until i made my first one Which was finally accomplished 2 months after learning how trail and error etc I've made each and every riser for my bow which is the most breakable part of all my designs have gave way while stringing up or drawing back from half of it snapping off mid draw to it literally splitting in half after being strung up In my short 2 months amateur experience I can assure you every single bow design Can in fact Break

Lol I bought a Hungarian horse bow off Amazon for $100 and I have put over a thousand arrows through it before my friends dog got hungry and ate it one day

When buying online instead of a local dealer you can have a conversation with and hold the product, I've never spent more money than I would mind too much if it arrived by mail in broken pieces to begin with. Especially if the item didn't have a good warranty and the company didn't have a verified track record of quality and service over time. Not that it means I'm wealthy by being cautious but, more of being poor and a frugal realist. I'd rather try to see if a local dealer could possibly try add the company to their sales list and try it if they can get it in first or wait until the online company can build a proven track record of service and quality.

The customer's contract is with the person who sold them the bow. Not the manufacturer.

You have my respect! X

I had a "Chinese" built bow de-laminate in my face at full draw. That company would only give me a slight discount on another bow and because they didn't have any made and said it would take 2 months to get the same one that broke and I would still have to pay for it. Granted at a discount. However it broke at the beginning of the hunting season in my country and I the season would have been over by the time they made and shipped me one. I ended buying a more expensive one just so I got hunt for the rest of the season. Wasn't really happy with that. But that's been my experience with one company.

£169 on a Turkish bow from this company, shot about 15 arrows from it and it exploded at about 10" draw, pulling fibreglass out of my hand for about an hour. They told me it cant be used anymore, no refund, and if I want a replacement "You pay 62 dollar, I send new one". Now they're ignoring me as I replied I've spent enough.

I love you brother 😇

My friend and I bought bows from a bowyer in Hungary. I had one for a little over a year and took great care of it ($500 bow). It cracked at the grip. My friends' bow also cracked from the second time stringing it and another cracked after two months of use. Contacted the bowyer and they told me it was a know defect and that is why they had changed up their technology with how they build their bow. They wanted us to send the bows to the UK to a friend and have that friend mail from the UK to Hungary. Not sure why? Was told by US mail that bows could not be mailed to the UK. Bowyer said that was unfortunate and would do nothing else. Very frustrating. :(

Ich glaube man sollte die Bögen nicht im Sommer bestellen, denn dan tut der DHL Bote bei 60° im Kofferraum die Bögen transportieren.

Wow.... So many broken bow

Greetings from turkey

Luki powinny przejsc po wytworzeniu spradzian wytrzymalosci.... Kolega zakupil luk Hinski refleksyjny za 350 zl + przesylka przy mnie nacjagnol i zalozyl strzale przy nacjagnieciu jedno ramie rozsypalo sie na 3 kawalki zareklamowal... I poinformowali go ze firma nie istnieje... Tyle z zakupu i radosci nabycia.

I guess this is a good a topic place for putting this question. In regards to the middle to upper tier bows that use organic materials, what are the effects of weather and temperature changes on a bow? I presume for instance changes would require time for the bow to acclimate but not sure. How would I ensure I don't damage my bow if I want to go from warmth inside to outside cold for practice? for instance. Of course, vice versa too. Here I presume unstringing immediately going from cold to warm would be mandatory. thank you in advance. Btw, I googled it and only found american hunters extolling about how much they love hunting deer in cold misty conditions.

But sometimes bows bow to the ravages of time and fatigue.....i reworked my first bow, after his break to a wood sword (was quite durable in this form)

An ARCHERY company that does not give, nor honor at the very least A ONE YEAR FULL REPLACEMENT WARRANTY on their BOWS should not be selling ARCHERY bows.. They should clearly state that their bows is FOR DECORATION ONLY! Archery is many things to many people same as an Archery Bow.. what it shouldn't be is FOR DECORATION ONLY..

If you break a bow in the middle you can make two small bows.

Yes, the archer community is small... This seller's reputation in China is also little bit "not so good". Some buyers said they received completely wrong draw weight bow, 10 pound away from the required draw weight!

Unfortunately very common Chinese way of doing business. Only thing that matters is money. I had many similar experiences through my company (thou I am not selling bows). First they deny everything, then it is your fault, and when pushed hard, they offer this -50% discount on your next purchase. Of course, there are legit Chinese companies, but they are pretty rare finds.

Ehrliches Video :) Top

Armin, good for you for letting us know, I for one will not buy anything from this company !! BTW, what was the company's name, Wi Zie Di W.....???

had problem with a english longbow i bought. literally a third of one of the upper limb broke off and broke my nose. company was more than happy to replace it but i declined and took store credit.

Good video, poor service from that Company, clearly dont understand their Market! maybe this was becoming an issue and they knew it, or simply just dont care, had the money already.

I think ali bow is better than kaiyuan bow now. The craft master in kaiyuan bow is trying to pass down his crafting technique and trying to ready the son to manage the company, but if you look at his son, I think the company has no future.

...and what was forgotten, it's just bad business 😔

I've watched this video just a few days ago and today my Şimşek bow cracked 🙁

hearts broke with bows

I really enjoy your videos, thank you. What is in your hanging targets?

Cool

They're not going to last very long if they treat their customers like that.