Archiving with M-Disc 

:)

Good observation. Stone age man was pretty smart. They built with perfect fit 100 ton stones we couldn't do today. So now we are stone age again. Progress!!!

LOL

Haha, what a trip.

And the sharpest blades are still made by striking stones together (obsidian)

Hey there! After 7 years do you still use this for backups? I'm interested into archiving my files for a long term. I was convinced to use SSD's but I'v come across this format, dou you recomend it?

Now that chamber sounds very cool.

@@ExplainingComputers Yes, I am afraid I can't give you any good technical details as I wasn't directly involved, but I saw all the highly weathered looking Antennas and was told roughly what had happened to them. There was a sound proof chamber also, for testing microwaves. They say a sound proof room makes a person panic if left inside but I tried it for a good 15 minutes, and i found it quite relaxing. Many thanks.

@@chunkymonkey55555 perhaps depends on what kind of person you are. I find quite places quite nice.

@@jec_ecartsame

"Accelerated Aging Tests" are the category these types of things fit into, it's a really interesting science!

Would you sell me some?

@@erickrobles3179 I have about 20 M-disc blank DVDs let me know if you are interested

I am really hoping for a package in 1-2 months . . . we shall see! :)

golden now

it blows my mind that in 2020 there is still no real solution for long term archival data storage, M-disc seems to be the best bet so far. hopefully they will increase the storage capacity some day

@@SquidkidMega the only way I could see optical discs being improved is with stronger more scratch resistant coatings(perhaps one of the newest Corning glasses?) or encased in housing similar to floppy disks/psp discs and more stable dyes as well as a larger storage capacity. Optical has got to be the most reliable and forgiving long term physical storage medium available to the common consumer, would love to see it developed further.

This is sadly all so true.

@@ExplainingComputers I have been looking into a long term storage method. The only thing I could find was 5D optical glass storage. It's supposed to last a couple million years, so that's probably long enough. Only problem is that I can't find how far along the development is. I read that Elon must received 2 of them, and that they transfered a superman movie on one to see how it would work. If you ask me they should invest into the development and get them on the market as soon as possible. It's a no brainer for me, that I would buy one.

Magnectic tape works fine for archival, big companies use them for important data, it's slow, but if you take good care they will last a lot longer than ssds hds and dvds, plus they're cheap and have redundantly gigantic storage sizes

Sadly Verbatim doesn't sell true m-disc's anymore. So even if he did make an update on this, it wouldn't be very helpful becaus you can't buy true m-disc discs anymore (other than old 4,7Gb from Millenniata)

@@halilsmith8162 This is just a myth.

@@halilsmith8162 Really? Are you sure about they no longer sell actual MDisks at all? Is there anything I can read about on that? Would be a real shame if true.

@@AbsurdScandal 1) This channel just did an updated video about different storage options and their longevity. 2) it lead me to look into buying m discs, and from what I’ve read so far there’s a strong consensus that the Verbatim discs sold as “M” are now an upgraded version of their regular “archival” quality. But “gold” DVDrs and CDRs can last 50 years if you write them at 1x speed. There’s a lot of info available online on maximizing the technology that we can get hold of. 3) there’s a magnetic HDD utility called “Spinrite” that can be used to keep HDDs working much longer than average as well. I used to use it for recovery, but it’s great for the “magnetic refresh” they need when used as mostly-unpowered backups. It’s over thirty years old and still updated by the original software engineer.

@@JasonJrake 2) Doesn't Verbatim still sell DVD mdisks? The Blu Rays may most likely not be using the same mineral layer that the original DVD mdisks used, so are most likely an upgraded archival BD, but the DVDs may be true mdisks still.

Yes, it looked great! :) Some cool chemistry was going on there.

@@ExplainingComputers -- I suspect that if the water was not the nice clean water you subjected it to, your results would have been different. For example in a situation where the disk was subjected to a flood where the water might be muddy. Don't laugh, a lot of companies in Houston found out that storing their important paper and data in underground secure storage was not a good idea after Tropical Storm Allison... Here's a photo from the tunnel system that connects many of the large buildings in downtown Houston... lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/dpChEwFH6dHI7Dzrfx8OE6E5BV4SSVQsYsau4d6bwdqdij1x12490x1N-gKoxqQcy_PTAxraMD12rvXF3XzuYgQ That photo was taken by someone while the water was still flowing rapidly in there and rising. Apparently the person realize that it probably was not a good idea to stay around as the water rose above the electrical outlets in the wall. It would have eventually filled up the the entire tunnel system and stores located on that level and the city spent quite a bit of time pumping out all the water from the tunnel system. The disaster planning for the companies was more concerned about the potential for a hurricane and tornado destroying a building, so storing important things underground seemed like a good idea to them. The problem is that storing things underground is not a good idea if you have flooding due to a significant rain event (e.g. Tropical Storm Allison, Hurricane Harvey, etc). Houston has had floods for probably as long at it has been in existence. They will spend millions of dollars after a flood to modify the drainage, but all it does is make it where a place that didn't used to flood ends up flooding now. Here's a photo from 1935 where it flooded to the 2nd and 3rd floor of the downtown buildings: s.w-x.co//util/image/w/houston-1935-flood-HCFCD.jpg

@@ExplainingComputers "Organic dyes" means its based on carbon chemistry.

For optical media, it's spelled "disc."

Indeed, I think heat and UV tests would be more relevant than moisture and cold - unless you live in some cold climate.

I'm pretty sure the M-dics would be immune because it doesn't use a light sensitive die at all ... the DVD and other discs use some type of dye ... anyway that's my 2 cents

@@BlackieNuff Yep, cold isn't that bad for discs: chemical reactions that make the disk organic dyes decompose are accelerated by heat, not cold. A good rule of thumb is that for every 10 ºC increase, there's a doubling in the reaction rate.

I believe a UV test like what you are suggesting has been done by the US military and M-disc performed well under these circumstances. Here is a link to their report. www.esystor.com/images/China_Lake_Full_Report.pdf

:)

Love your content man, just discovered this channel a few days ago. Keep up the fabulous work!

Or the 10 years challenge! :b

23 years to go.

I've got 25 year old CD's and DVD's that still work like they're brand new. Popped in an old PC game the other day and installed it... works perfect. Maybe 50 year update...

50 GB of M-Discs costs just about the same as 3 000 GB of LTO-5 tape.

@@laszu7137 But the tape drive (assuming roughly $1000) costs as much as (from Amazon) 6 TB of Milleniata M-Discs, or (from your own comment) 36 TB of LTO-5 tape. Furthermore, this isn't about price, but longevity. If it's about price, the cheapest up to roughly 30 TB is HDD, then tape (which, BTW, it has very slow random read/write performance due to it being linear).

The Technology changes so use every 5 Year the latest Backup tech.... So you have a fresh copy of your backup... Dont forgot about changing Media/Conectors/Software and so on... A IDE Harddisk is already usable but witch modern Motherbord support IDE ??? It will be same with SATA.... So keep you older Copies but go for the latest affordable technology.... Dont Forget 3 Copys are 1 Backup, set on 3 different Technologies and Physical different Places. So it must be relativelly save.

Many thanks. :)

:)

lol maybe at where you live?

Burnt my first cd-r in 1995, also warez, also still works. The gold discs I used cost £7 each and there was no buffer under-run protection so if the pc decided to do something unexpected whilst burning (at 1x) the disc was ruined. The drive cost about £400 iirc. It paid for itself pretty quickly as I used to sell discs crammed full of warez for £20 a pop. Diskjuggler was one of the burning programs I remember using, and yes, that one was also pirated lol.

You got yourself some quality right there!

Most cd-rs from that time used unstable cyanine dye tho not phaltocyanine or azo so unless it was stored in a cool dry place with no light all that time I find it hard to believe that it still reads fine

I got a 2x2x24 hp drive for Christmas 1997 or 98. Sucker took like 24mins to drop a 650mb cd-r!

Better still, why not store multiple copies in totally separate locations?

Basically an airplane blackbox?

Under the sea?🤣

@@raiogelato6921 They make fireproof safes that are designed for this, but it is worth noting that it's more useful if you live in a smaller home where the firefighters can get to the fire quickly, as they are more fire resistant than fireproof, but they will protect against water and heat, up to a point.

@@gazzarrr666 In a war or asteroid impact-type scenario, a disaster-proof safe (especially if stored in a basement underground, if such a space is available) would be invaluable, even compared to storing multiple copies in separate locations.

Many thanks! :)

what? you are not at 1 mil yet ? wth ! I always thought that you were a big channel that has 10 million subscribers . wow.

kaetty_7 You are very kind. :)

ExplainingComputers thanks :)

***** As soon as it arrives! :)

Great Video. I would like to see a UV test too.

LV_Woodturner Department of Defense has since done it's own set of testing. It's has withstood temperatures of around 176 degrees. in addition to ultraviolet light and liquid nitrogen. Now keep in mind while the disc is certainly very robust. It can still break but as far as it being damaged through traditional means. That is much more difficult than a standard disk.

I've had dye based discs die in my car during the summer. It can get to 140°F in a car during the peak of summer and it warps the dye pattern. The M-Disc should survive.

Neither have I. I have a DVD writer in my PC and it's apparently M-Disc certified. It has M.DISC written on it and I've always wondered what that means! :D

Simo Hayha: Since BR/DVD (be they R/RW/M) is NOT magnetic media, magnetic fields would have no effect whatsoever on them.

Thanks for the sub -- welcome aboard! :)

@@ExplainingComputers I presume that making scale-mail armour from these discs would render me invincible, and perhaps nigh immortal?

+Stephen Morrish My new build dosn't have an optical drive either, hence why I'm thinking of using an external one instead.

Stephen Morrish M-disc has been out for a while now and nobody seems very interested in using it at this point. Because what is the point in having a media that last for 1000 years when it could be next to impossible to find a drive that still works as well as any devices using the same codec or file systems for that matter.

Stephen Morrish I have them on all and haven't used one in last 6 months. if you have good internet connection you don't need one.

When I initially built my PC last year I didn't include an optical drive, but now I have one. The same exact Blu-ray drive that's in this video, in fact. I don't use it very often, but it can be very useful on occasion. For example, I recently recorded a music album for a family member who plays piano. I used inkjet printable discs along with an inkjet disc printer and the result is almost professional.

@Elvis: I have a dvd writer that has the lightscribe function. It can use the dvd laser to etch really professional graphics on lightscribe cd-r/dvd-r discs. Christ knows where to buy em though, lightscribe doesnt appear to have caught on and thus the discs are uncommon and bloody expensive. Dont think I have used the drive for a few years now.

new verbatim m-discs sadly are not true m-disc anymore

Make great drink coasters and mobiles.

:O

It seems many of here are starting to think about how we are storing data for the long-term. Like you, I have slipped into relying on hard drives, even though the data on them is known to fade unless it is re-written every few years. I feel another video coming on here about how and why media fail, and how to try and prevent this occuring.

My first CD ROM was single speed, required a SCSI host adaptor, and If I recall correctly, cost £199.

I've Had WAY more data loss from mechanical hard drive failure than burnable media I consider it far more secure & that has tested true by a mile in the last 20 or so years.

*definitely

I'll stay with my 128gb usb stick that's faster and cheaper and stores more than a single disc

@@intothevortex7825 Usb aren't archival.. it will corrupt in few 1-2 years

@@intothevortex7825 what do you mean store more than a single disc? Im sorry but whut?????

@@intothevortex7825 your pathetic usb is not made for archiving. Dork.

Stefan Noack don't store your disks in a rainforest then

OK That's not always the case, those of us that live in the south. Like Georgia or Florida in the US. We run into these problems. Or when I import older media from central and South America these problems are more common.

Hi, I have CDs with scratches in them like more scratches than you can count, and they still read fine, but the dye i guess....That would be a problem. I would just vacuum seal them.

The organic dye in the disc is in fact not bio-degradable. The "mold" you saw was probably just the metallic layer oxidising. Main disc rot cause however is UV light, which breaks down the organic layer.

Evert Guzman I also live in a moist, warm climate. I have never had my discs mold. I back up all of my CDs and keep the burned copies in my car. They all work fine after several years of that. If you keep your discs out of sunlight, you really don't need to worry about much else.

exactly

He's more the techmoan of computer stuff, if you don't know who that is, look him up.

I know all 3 of them,I love their content,great side of youtube.

^ Indeed.

Best haircut on the entire interwebs

Gladly. :)

his great great grandson will

@@scienceium5233 Great great grandson only gets you part of the way to 200 years. You need many more greats to get to 1000!

If someone in 500 years time wants to read your M-disc, I'm sure they could find a way to do it. We can still buy methods of reading outdated storage methods today, people still sell cassette players and record players and yes, even floppy disc drives. It might be a niche item by then, but it would definitely be possible. ESPECIALLY if the disc was being used by historians or archivists.

well floppy disk drives are still made and sold...as well as Zip drives

How are you going to read an M-Floppy? Well he could, at 5:55 you can see that his computer still has a floppy drive!

CDs were around in the 1980s, so pretty good chances.

I have the same suggestion, I guess most damage will be caused by light (radiation).

probably 😉😁

There will always be computers able to read DVDs considering how prevalent the medium is, or at least some service to convert them into a newer medium. Even today there are many places that offer conversion of 8mm film into digital format. Say in 1000 years an archaeologist uncovers a box of m-discs buried underground, civilisation could be much more advanced than it is today and there will likely be information available on the dvd format and how dvds worked, so the data would be able to be recovered.

+Vercusgames VCRs can stay dead, but record players keep rising like zombies. They're still in production. Importantly for records, they can be read even if you don't know how record players are built. All you have to know is that it is analog sound data in a spiral groove, and you can work out all the other details along the way. That's why the Voyager probes had gold-plated records attached for aliens to potentially listen to, as opposed to some other medium.

Cassettes are terrible archival media, even aside from the mechanical problems tape decks inevitably suffer with age. Records have a much higher chance of being readable in 50 or 100 years, and direct drive turntables don't even have belts to break.

tell that to vinyl... I doubt that this will be a real problem. IF I'm wrong (and all of us commenting here will be dead in 100 years): Great job humanity, on screwing up the most imortant task: Data Storage and retrieval. 3:34 M-Disc Christmas hahaha what ? 7:29 This is actually a tech-comedy show in disguise *where's my popcorn ?* 10:28 Unless you are... ahahah

Thanks for this. My foot continues to be problematic. The surgery I hoped for and talked about here many months ago never happened, as when I saw the surgeon 17 weeks after the fracture, he found that the bone had not healed (and they will not further cut and pin a bone that is not healing). So I've continued being rather immobile ever since (it is now I think week 29) -- several doctors have basically told me to avoid doing anything that hurts, and to be patient. This said, I am now nervously venturing out a bit and hope to make some progress in the coming months. I even hope to film at tradeshow in about 10 days time. Fingers crossed! :)

i hope it gets better. sending prayers.

mike maynard Thanks.

An interesting methods. I usually just put a cutter through a CD or DVD-R if it needs to go in the bin.

@@ExplainingComputers It makes pretty coasters....

everything is much simpler, there is a method of forced aging, which makes the discs age many times faster and with this method it is easy to both calculate the approximate age of storage in good conditions and it is easy to compare different models of discs with each other

You got it the wrong way around. Time is slower near a black hole, so it will only be a few hours or days old when you retrieve it decades later from your pov. It is you who needs to hang out near thw black hole in order to accelerate the disk aging.

@@SeminarChauffeur Agreed. I got the roles reversed. It was I who'd want to go into orbit near the event horizon so that everything beyond ages faster.

well youre not supposed to put ANY disc uncovered near or in sunlight but if that M-disc survived extreme moisture it would probably survive the sun too. As much as they cost though, I wouldnt chance it