Are Audiophiles Mean? Is The Music Hobby Full Of Harder To Get Along With Hobbyists? 

As Andrew Robinson says, "The only person that has to enjoy the sound of your system is you." I've had inexpensive systems, because that was all I could afford, and I enjoyed them at the time. I've upgraded over the years, and I've enjoyed them also. There sometimes comes a point in which financially and hearing loss wise, you say to yourself, enough is enough. I really enjoy my current system, and I couldn't care less what someone else may think about the components that are in it.

Honestly, you see it with channels such as yours as well. Hundreds of "Advise" videos and all and most don't even understand the basic concepts or science behind them. Just filtered down misinformation and negativity. It's nice to see someone (yourself) making quality content and actually explaining what you could do in a nice, constructive way. The community needs way more people like yourself.

In addition to the social factors being mentioned, I believe the lack of empirical measurements that clearly determine quality levels creates a huge level of subjectivity that can’t be resolved. In photography, cars, etc, the empirical measures clearly determine equipment quality and guardrail the discussion into discussions mostly of trade offs comparing data. In audio, past a minimum quality level the measurements do not drive any consensus of quality. Therefore, it becomes highly subjective, subject to opinion or claiming golden ears, and creating the need to defend one’s equipment and decisions against others with no standardized basis for comparison. Since highest quality isn’t determined by empirical data, there is no path to consensus.

There are rude people everywhere, out driving , cutting in front of you in a line up, bullying others at school then they move on to the same thing in their workplace. Then they get home and get on their computer to belittle everyone. I help a lot of people in different groups online and you get to see all kinds , some people demand help, some get mad if you don't help them, and the people you help don't appreciate it or even respect the time I take to help others? I think the internet is an amplified version of the reality of everyday life. Like you said they are behind a computer and perhaps feel a little more tougher than in person. One thing for sure audiophiles share one thing , they are perfectionist always looking for better amps , better speakers and better trick to make it all sound better. But there is also a difference between perfectionist and conpulsive disorder or narcissist. I always enjoy your video and fully appreciate the caliber of your experience and knowledge!

Thanks for this, Andrew. I enjoy your videos and your calm, well-thought-out approach to the various topics you present. As I've gotten older, I've come to realize that a lot of what I think I'm hearing is actually happening inside my head. I can listen to the same piece of music on the same sound system in the same room, but it sounds quite different. This has helped me to be much less judgemental about others' sound systems, and, of course, to be less patient with people who are dismissive of others' systems.

I think that there are multiple classes / types of audiophile and the types can also clash. The folks that seem the most volatile to me are where the hobby has passed into more of a status symbol or sign of being rich or exclusive. It's not about enjoying the audio anymore but curating the image. The same happens when you get into the realms of super expensive clothes, jewelry, art, etc. In those realms, it seems there are more of those that are struggling for recognition, respect, etc. and working to get it by showing that their taste is better and others' taste is flawed. When it has become part of one's identity to be prideful about the hobby or the status it brings, then conflict is bound to arise. I also think audio is an area where there might be more "entry level" audio enthusiasts than perhaps in other hobbies. Music, movies, and media are mainstream industries and many people just show up for a time, perhaps when they decide they want to make a nice listening system or movie room, and then when they get something that is enough for them, they exit the scene again. These transients have very little ego, they are usually regular middle class folks, and just want to build their system, start enjoying their media, and move on. When the prideful entrenched audiophile meets the pragmatically focused transient newbie, it seems like sparks can fly because the audiophile has no interest in helping them, the hobby has become about feeding their ego and pride. There's some hypothetical ideas anyway.

I started my journey in audio on a group dedicated to music love and vinyl record. I learned a lot of things from comments about placement of the speakers, distance between the turntable and noisy equipments and bla bla bla. This specific group is very kind and courteous and most of the people find a way to say things politely with a goal of helping with no cost tricks. However, as the group become bigger and bigger, some people gives advice only to show their knowledge and their level of audiophile high end expensive gears achievement. And people can feel it. I think it is correct to advice someone at how a cheap turntable with ceramic cartridge may worn their precious records fastly. But I don't think some one should say "You could have buy a better cartridge thanks this one for the same money" if the guy dis not ask for advices. Anyway it's done, the money was spent and please let the people be happy with it. The tone and attitude is the key!

You've hit the nail on the head there! However, as to why people feel compelled, comfortable, justified, authorised to speak negatively against or act as a guide, is wrapped up in all the nuances of human psychology. That being said, thank goodness for yourself and others who genuinely care about others and their journey, with an open mind and from a standpoint of comradeship.

If I need a new system ( amp, turntable and speakers for example ) , I will spend as much time as possible researching the best components I can buy for whatever budget I have at the time. Then I will purchase the pieces , set them up and listen to music. After that I focus on the music. If you come to my house I might ask you what albums ( from my collection ) you would like to listen to. Some audiophiles will ask you to listen to their new pre-amp or new speakers and then talk over the music while asking you question after question..... all of their insecurities will pour out as they look for your validation that they bought the right parts. They'll only reference the music to point out something in their system ie : " The violin really highlights the clarity of the tweeters " or " this song really demonstrates the woofers low end " . I think some audiophiles truly want to hear the best reproduction of their favourite music, while others are really gearheads. I've met both types. Love what you got. If you are able to upgrade or improve your system, then do it, and then get back to enjoying the music." The grass is always greener.......right ? "

Friend - You have nailed it! The best sounding system is the one YOU are pleased with! FORGET the SNOBS who have finally managed to land a McIntosh system, and now everyone else outside of his listening room is listening to "trash"!

I think this phenomenon is fairly universal in settings where passionate enthusiasts and "newbies" coexist. I don't find it to ever be the majority of participants, only a select few. As to why, I suspect it's because a lot of people who gravitate to social enthusiast sites tend to be a little less developed socially.

Hi Andrew, I'd like to humbly ask if you could do a video about the research findings of the National Research Council as it relates to speakers.

Andrew - Great video, as usual. An aspect that also is common in the audio world (especially forum/social media) ... the meaner the person is, the more likely that person is to tell us "I don't need a blind test to hear the differences between components." Science and reason (plus compassion) are missing from these types.

I've come come to realize that my stereo mode from my old Yamaha AVR is good enough after decoupling my speakers and my sub. I added a streamer adaptor and now play FLAC format songs. I have decided to enjoy my friends surprise with my system's new sound in terms of Soundstage and image. My old cds sound magical. Perhaps one day I'll get a power amp or stereo to increase my speaker performance, but for now I'm happy. This is from listening to most audiophiles and deciding my path to satisfaction.

I think audiophiles feel a personal sense of connection to their sound systems. It's easy to take offense if someone criticizes a possession you have invested a lot of money, interest and research into.

Yeah no reason to be mean or “elitist”. I always tell people, “This sounds good to me, this is how I prefer my set up.” Ears are not equal, people listen for different reasons. What sounds good to one might not sound good to another. I constantly play around with my set up just for fun, my equipment isn’t perfect, my room isn’t perfect but honestly I don’t care as long as I enjoy it. Friendly advice is always welcomed…isn’t that the whole point of forums to help each other not criticize? I love chatting with people about audio simply because it’s a passion for me and I’m always learning more and more as I go along on this round rock (flat rock for the others).

Keyboard warriors all around. That’s why I don’t visit the different audio forums let alone the photography forums. Seems have gotten worse with everyone being locked up the past while. Bashing is not teaching.

Great video, i am hoping to see some video about sound quality of different electronic components brand in speaker crossover. Does it really matter to choose expensive component ? Truth or Myth ? I am newbies in HiFi.

Yes I remember this type of thing when I was involved with a forum this was before RU-vid. I recently started to go through discussions again because my TT is sticking 1 min into any record followed by unusual distortion. And yeah nothing has changed. I found a relevant thread but jeez the poor person that asked the question...People insisting that his TT was not set up properly despite the og poster clearly stating 3 times that it was set up correctly. I'll take it to a service tech. So many angry people out there

It's very subjective, everyone has their own idea what sounds best and what it takes to get that sound. Sometimes audio fanatics can be very passionate about their ideas of what's best. I have my own ideas but try not to criticize others for having different ideas... even if their ideas are wrong:-)

Preach brother Andrew! Too much negativity out there, your positivity is refreshing. Most of these RU-vid "reviewers " included. I have over 30 pairs of speakers now ranging between $100 -$1500 so i ask alot of questions. Most reviewers will brush me off when i ask about a certain speaker that they themselves reviewed, recommended or commented on. They get a few subscribers and likes and then they turn into know it all snobs. Anyways , 95% of them can't even get their hands on some Axiom speakers so they really haven't heard what science and research can offer. Guess they'll just have to review whatever free for a "non bias "opinion . As for me ill stick to what my ears like and always recommend "best bang for the buck" - Axiom audio M5HP .

The reason is simple, people doubt their own purchase decisions and seek to tell others who clearly made different choices that they are wrong and should have made the same dubious decisions they did. Glad you mentioned “room treatment”, this has become far more prevalent since Covid and I’m delighted. People do have terrible listening spaces……..and they need telling! 😆

I've been involved in presenting audiophile gear at CES and similar shows over some 20 years and rarely came across the sort of thing Andrew is describing, so I am inclined to think the issue has to with the forum itself which, as been noted, is noted for its users sounding off for one reason or other. That said, I have my own idea why this issue exists at all. It is that we audiophiles, in general, are unclear as to the objective of our hobby. Is it the best possible measurements -- and if so, what do these measurements measure and how do we know they are of any value? If the best possible measurements should result in the lowest distortion, for example, how do we know that low distortion measures anything of value in the listening experience? Is it a particular range of performance expectations, such as frequency response, staging or individuation of instruments? If so, how do we know when our equipment isn't faithfully rendering the recording rather than the performance recorded? Is it a convincing portrayal of a music performance -- and if so, given how faithless recordings are, what standard should we adopt to determine such a capability? With such a range of ambiguity of objective, it is no surprise that commentators will try to fill in the mystery with whatever touches their ego.

Some people can only make themselves bigger by making someone else smaller. Something that can be esoteric, expensive and subjective is is often used to facilitate this behavior.

Yes, I have noticed this. Critics are everywhere---but I believe it tends to be more prevalent and far less controlled in social media, and especially in audio discrimination. Yeah, us music enthusiasts have very critical incoming listening, but some don't have the filtered output when they comment. I once read that everyone has a measured Intelligence Quotient (IQ), but there is also an EQ (emotional quotient). Perhaps this meanness is an element in the EQ, after people have been isolated and stuck behind a keyboard year after year. Anyway, I typically disregard those maligned commenters who want me to do something THEIR way.

Good advice Andrew. You should move those speakers in front of you. They're too close.

it's an exclusive boys club....we men are very competitive with big ego's

There is truth to what you say, but there is another aspect to be considered. Some people are just overly sensitive and can't take any feedback other than the outright praise that they are looking for. But sometimes there are obvious improvements a person can make and to not point it out to the original poster and just offer a 'great job' comment seems disingenuous to me. That said, the method, or the bedside manner of delivering the comment or advice can certainly be done better by some people. Plus there will always be aholes and trolls on forums which you just need to ignore. The bottom line is that if you show up on any forum posting pictures of your audio system or your car modifications, etc. you should expect feedback and most likely not all of that feedback will be what you were hoping for. If this is upsetting to you then an internet forum is not a place for you to hang out at. ;)

I don't communicate to any audiophiles. It's hard to communicate to someone who already knows everything about audio.

I bought some AKG K72’s on Amazon and I wanted to post them in an audiophile discord to get opinions and maybe some helpful recommendations. I got called a dumbass, re-rd, moron, etc… i got no help or recommendations, I just left and I’ll never go back. The gate keeping and toxicity levels in the audiophile community are the worst I’ve seen… I swear that the undertale fandom is less toxic than the audiophile community…

LOL. Please tell me where these people reside, would love to have some expert advice.

Mean is a sub function of snobbery. Its the guys that will spend stratospheric amounts of money on components. That it itself leads them to the delusion that it ALWAYS sounds superior to lower cost products. They never are concerned with variables like hearing, room, taste etc. When you don't worship the same gear they do to the same degree the first reaction is: "Well, you are mad because you can't afford it." No, I'm not mad because I can't afford it. I don't like the sound and see no value in it.

Yah don't bring up the bankrupt Canadian made speaker company Nuance😂😂😔😔

This is fascinating reflection I love it! Let’s be nicer to each other lol why not?

Great topic. Heated discussions. I wonder if the fact that we all have different room environments has something to do with it. I have moved several times to different houses and apartments over the years and what struck me was that each move required a recalibration of the system for it to sound the way I like it.. Things like the size of the room, floors, wall spacing, furniture, even the exterior walls whether brick or wood siding had an impact on the sound. In effect the system that I chose and liked at one place I often didn't sound good at all in the next place I moved to and its sound environment. I think people forget how much of. the sound of our system depends on the listening environment as opposed to the equipment itself. I think this may be what leads people to say 'how come you can't hear' how lousy those speakers, amp, preamp whatever are - well maybe one clue could be their listening environment is different from yours. The exaggerated base you like sounds anemic now because of your new room dimensions but that doesn't mean the speakers are no good, just that their characteristics favour one type of room over another. In the end though there's no excuse for being rude on line - you're just making other readers think you're a jerk.