Same people will have a TOOTH ACHE and say I will just get it pulled or buy a China made oil filter from the 'discount' store saving 3 cents thinking they are 'saving money'....
Very good points, I developed an adapter to put a cat filter on a Duramax, and Ford. After many conversations with a cat representative from the filter factory. The reason Cat started to make their own filters was that metal was being left in the filters after manufacture. When you stamp 1000’s of parts the tooling picks up a magnetic properties and transfers that to the parts, they in turn pick up metal fragments and are in the filters during the assembly process. So the filters we’re putting those particles into the engine. In addition to the spiral roving and the acrylic beads the filter is glued to the aluminum threaded insert and then the outer shell is rolled onto the aluminum threaded insert. So no hard metals could enter the oil system from the filter from stamping process. “Longer life through better filtration”.
Nearly all CAT filters are made by Donaldson. You should know this ☺️. It´s the Donaldson Endurance serie. I have all the cutaway CAT filters from my time at a Donaldson dealership. By the way, that Donaldson P551311 is a fuel filter
Yip ........ Yellow equipment manufacturers do not make their own filters. In fact, OE's do not make any (or majority) of any parts on any machines they sell. It's all bought out, most of it. So they would need a Filter manufacturer to make their filters. Look ta the filter manufacturers in this video, and as @toyotatechDK said, you might find one of them makes many of the filters for most OE's ...
I never remember the order as the other one I use/have is the P-551000 I think it is, one is water /fuel / the other is fuel filter. which every way they run .
Full synthetic seems unnecessary, only real reason to use it is extended intervals and as you say oil is cheap so no reason to extend the interval. I run regular old rotella on 20k mile drains and the cat oil samples say all is well and the oil is still in excellent condition.
@@gumps1986 It's good that you're getting your oil analysis every 10K my friend bought a new truck and was working in the oilfield and was running Amsoil and Amsoil filters and changed it religiously every 20,000 miles and his engine blew up at 78,000 miles due to oil contamination according to the dealer so warranty wouldn't cover the engine. Just because Amsoil says that their oil keeps its viscosity for so many miles doesn't mean that it can stay clean for that long. The main reason for changing oil isn't because its worn out you change it because of the contaminants in it which also plugs up filters. I change my oil at 10,000 to 12,000 miles even if I run a high dollar oil.
Well on Caterpillar 3406 all models, C15, ,C16, C18 and 3456E I would recommend CAT 1R-0716 oil filter if oil is normal and wanted to change early. For good synthetic long drain engine lube oil Caterpillar advanced fuel and oil filters are available like wise lube oil filters 1R-1808 and 275-2604. Fuel filter 1R-1712 or advanced high efficiency use 1R-0749 along recommend fuel water separator elements and primary filters respectively.
Hey!! My friend long time no see you lol. Good to see you again. In my opinion if my truck work hard without giving me any problems at all and feed my family The least I can do is to treat him the same way by Putting good quality parts, excellent maintenance and a nice wash every week; that way he can be like me super happy when I get my heavy duty pay check 💰 every week because of him.
Mr Ape, can you do a video on bypass filtration systems? I'm driving myself nuts trying to decide whether to install one or not. Of course there are videos out there but they are from the makers of the systems so of course they are great and worth it. You have a good perspective and don't "sell" anything you explain the merits of something from a fairly neutral position and based upon your experience. Thanks for your channel. Powerstroke owner here. It's not a Cat but it's still a diesel!
Did you go with a bypass system, which one and what engine? I have a Duramax with 100K and am looking at a bypass system: Parker, Insane, probably not Amsoil.
Not even a question. Never seen any issues with Donaldson until this video, but CAT first unless you can't get your mitts on one. And for goodness sake change the damn things! Oil, grease & filters are far cheaper than fixing the things they protect.
I didn’t even watch the video but I will tell you, I worked at Donaldson’s plant in Stevens point Wisconsin, they make almost every filter, including cat, so your buying a over priced Donaldson filter if you buy a cat filter, yes they are a tad bit different in number of pleats but same shit that’s it
Clyde Acor lol same thing with my Detroit, Donaldson filter 20 bucks a piece and original Detroit oil filter 15. Needless to say I just go with original and not just because of the price either
@@patryk2497 Does Donaldson make the filters for Detroit? But in my situation you would think that Caterpillar would be cheaper than Kenworth for a Caterpillar brand filter. I asked my Caterpillar dealer about it and asked why they were twice as expensive as Kenworth for their own brand and the service manager told me it's because Kenworth orders and sells more filters and I said that may be true but they get them from you! Lol...
Absolutely true...lol... I get all my Cat filters from Kenworth! Kenworth just picked up the "Majestic" oil line also and its selling like crazy. I haven't used the engine oil because i use "Mystic" 15w 50 synthetic blend with a "MotorCote" chaser and they only have 15w 40. But i am using the "Majestic" full synthetic gear and transmission oils and they're great! And the prices are nice on the 5 gallon buckets of the stuff, like 90 sump'em bucks plus tax out the door👍
Ya- Me too! Project Farm channel showed that Fram is a SCAM for 40 years of my life purchases. I WIX it or NAPA GOLD it for my 1999 Toyota Solara. Nothing but Fleetgaurd for my Cummins N14 too. But if I had a Caterpillar, I would do what Josh strongly thinks Cat owners should do and I would use a Car filter.
This video should actually be a two part, with this video being "Are Cat filters built better?" and the second video focusing on filtering and flow rate. Solid construction is all well and good, but filtering quality is just as important. If two filters are equally built, the one with the better filtering ability wins. Time for the followup video! Filtering and flow rate comparisons.
Typical reasons other than product defects: There are many possible reasons for the bunching.. *Sticky surfaces caused by cold, highly viscous oil *Oil contaminated by excessive condensation, coolant or oxidation *Neglect - extended oil drain and filter change intervals *Carbon grit that temporarily jams a valve *Sudden acceleration of the engine with any of the above conditions. Source: Machinery Lubrication Magazine
I disagree on CAT filter quality. I am a Frac Mechanic working with T4 3512 engines. I never had a problem with the T3 pumps that ran cartridge filters, but the T4 fuel filters are canister type and they are garbage, seems half of them are cracked and leaking once installed because of the crap manufacturing quality having to do with the drain valve. I have far less issues with the Baldwin brand. Our filters only last about 8 days regardless of whether we use CAT or Baldwin. We monitor the engines and we can tell when the filters need changed.
Majority of Cat filters are made by the other leading manufactures. The canisters are made that way for other reasons and it's not a cost savings reason. Also, who knows how long the examples went on their oil changes.
A lot of FleetGaurd "Cummins" is the same as CAT with the Nylon and we have never ever had a failure ever! Use the Filter that comes on your engine from the factory!!! It will never fail you!
Great video! I run oem filters on my cummins powered pickup. I put a cat fuel filter on my deere powered genset. Filters are not the place i want to save.
Cat doesn't make any filters. They are made by Donaldson per cat specs. Mann filters= Napa, Wix, Purolator, Carquest and more. Donaldson= Donaldson, Cat, other OEMs. Fleetguard= China??? Baldwin= Baldwin, Hastings. Champion= Bosch, Champ, ACdelco, K&N, Mobil1, STP, Deutsch Honeywell= Fram, Penzoil, Quaker state. I Probably forgot a bunch.
Jay Horsma you’re correct. Cat high efficiency filters are the equivalent to Donaldson blue series.. wix is absolute junk. Fleetguard is good and Baldwin is ok
Ben Upde yes wix is junk. They’re made near me and I know what they use and who works there. They’re junk!!! Had several rupture in the past. Never buy one again. That’s why they’re cheap
You have a convert! I have a couple of sets of filters in stock but now I'm afraid to use them. In times past I've used Baldwin filters on a 6NZ. So far no "known" oil or fuel issues, but like Mr Frank in this thread has said, "don't trip over dollars to pick up a nickel!!" Thanks for your dedication to keep us informed.
Well it makes sense. I have learned that OEM filters are built specifically for the application for OEM products. Especially Heavy Duty equipment Yea 3 thousands more meat is huge especially if the metal is hardened. Awesome descriptive as usual Josh. Thanks Man!
At my rental yard, for our big ticket items like transports, rollbacks and Cat/JD full size equipment I always run the OEM filters. We don't have dozens and dozens of them, so the minimal added cost is outweighed by the peace of mind. For our hundreds of smaller machines, from skid steers to lawn/garden equipment I have run Wix/Napa (same product) filters for 25 years with zero lubrication related failures. Also, I can get them delivered from almost any parts house, which is convenient. If you are proactive and service your machines regularly, then the likelihood of a collapsed or plugged filter is fairly remote, so the premium attributes of an OEM filter become less of a necessity weighed against the cost of many hundreds of filters per year.
i always try to use OEM filters where possible, i think on smaller equipment its not as critical (ie small engines) but larger engines and especially diesel engines i would always try to. the one aftermarket filters i have faith in at least for automotive is the hastings brand
I am back! I do totally agree with this video. I broser-search a engine oil filter for a Caterpillar C15 both Cat brand and Donaldson. The price difference in April, 2022, is $8.09 to $15.00. Remanufactured prices for third-party companies on the internet for a Caterpillar C15 are $16,500 to $24,500. I will use $18,500. Let us do some Math $18,500 remain engine ÷ $15.00 difference in filter listed prices ≈ 1,233. One needs to purchase this many Donaldson filter before said filter causes and engine failure in order to break even. If change the filter quarterly: 1,233 ÷ 4 ≈ 308 years before a potential payoff in savings occurs. Madness! Unless the engine is close to dying, there is no reason to skimp financially on a non-ORM engine oil filter.
Sir I would love to stay this and I state it honestly and happily. I find a large amount of useful information and value in every single one of your videos with very few exceptions. Tell buddy and Piper that a Country Boy loves them.
here is where manufacture is NOT always best most manufactures use nominal micron rating and Cat uses absolute micron rating. Understanding the difference is like this. 2micron fuel filter for example nominal mean it will filter like 85% down to 2 micron meaning you can get bigger then 2 micron thru the filter a 2 micron absolute means nothing bigger then 2 micron will get thru
You should do a video on if Lucas actually is worth using with Evey oil change, maybe do an oil sample on break downs of common oil brands such as Mobil, Chevron, Northland etc. We run Northland and 1 gallon of Lucas, fuel filters and airs as needed every 10k miles.
Lucas does exactly what it claims, it's just thicker oil. Far cheaper to just run a thicker oil in the first place then to add Lucas. The thing Lucas does not advertise is running thicker oil also reduces fuel economy, recommend viscosity is the balance for appropriate protection without unnecessary losses as determined by the manufacturer.
On every test I've seen on you tube that includes Lucas it's always last, but if you've never seen those videos go to a Y/T subscriber Project Farm and see for your own. there's a lot more posted by other subscriber where Lucas is included.
I just switched from Shell Rotella T6 5w40, I was very happy with it’s performance, but I’ve heard Schaeffer’s is much better. I just had my oil changed to Schaeffer’s Supreme 9000 5w40 two weeks ago and the tech said the oil felt super slippery when he was putting a bead of oil on the oil filter gasket. He said he’s never felt an oil that slick before! The tech making that comment makes me feel like I made a good choice. I encourage people to research this oil, we all would like our engines to last as long as possible and get a little better fuel economy along the way!
I must like to stir things up, I used a bypass filter & Mobil DelVac oil changed bypass & serviced the truck every 10,000 miles. Main filter every 40,000 miles. Changed the oil every year. Sold the truck with 1,227,000 miles, never been inside the engine, original king pins & bushings.
Saw a lot of series 60 go over a million miles before overhaul. Don't think I ever saw a Cat do that. Saw a lot of Cats around 800 thousand sink number six liner in the block and blow out the water.... overhaul time.
One thing to touch on with the cases back in my lube tech days at TA I used to have to fight with a lot of overtightened filters and while almost all the filters would collapse or twist in an attempt to get them loose, cats tended to dent where the metal portion of my strap wrench rested on the filter but otherwise stayed uniform to its original shape
Yes they are worth it in the marine industry I’ve had sea trials and they put like a Baldwin filter secondary and it doesn’t have enough return holes a cat filter has 11 return holes and the aftermarket ones have like eight or nine return holes and that’s taking 50 RPM off the top end at full throttle. And you can get the filters white too.
I always have ran Cat fuel, oil, and hydraulic filters on my Cat D6D. On my cars and pickups I use Wix because Acdelco is made by Fram now and I don’t trust Fram.
Wix was great till NAPA bought them. I try to buy OE whenever possible. Bosch is always a quality filter, yet they are hard to find in my area. The box stores love moving the cheap crap with a big price. :(
Edwin Frank I think it’s the other way around, I’m pretty sure WiX owns the Napa brand filters. I’ve cut the WIX and it’s Napa Gold equivalent open, they’re pretty much the same filter. I’ve never tried bosh filters but I heard they were pretty good. I get my filters from a mom and pop parts store and I’ve been buying WIX filters from them for like $5.10 after tax. I very rarely buy stuff from the chain parts store unless it’s an emergency.
@@ed81ny GPC/NAPA does not own Wix. Mann+Hummel currently owns and manufactures the filter marketing brands Mann, Wix and Purolator. Currently, most NAPA filters are manufactured by Mann+Hummel. In the US almost all Bosch filters are manufactured by United Components/Champion Labs.
WIX is/was the only filter to warranty engine damage do to filter failure. I crewed on the WIX FILTERS Top Fuel Dragster and spent a lot of time with the WIX guy.
We use to use CAT filters on every one of our CAT engines in equipment at my work. About 6 years ago we had one fail, at the seam (flaw). It was colder outside, me and a co-worker went and started all the equipment before operators showed up... (about 30 machines, not all CAT engines, JD and Cummings mix with CAT). About a hour later we noticed one machine not making "smoke" walked over to it and it wasn't running. Upon further inspection it lost all the oil. We put maybe 3 gallons in it or so. Started it up and noticed it was coming out of the seam where the base is "welded" to the can. The Murphy shut the engine down. But not soon enough, it scattered the CAT-Perkins 6.6 before our eyes. We took this to cat, the repowered engine only had 500 hrs before the scatter, CAT took about 4 months, but they split the new engine cost with us. Which was nice of them I guess, however the company I work for doesn't care about $$$, just downtime. (I work for a really big railroad). However I noticed about a year ago, we are no longer running CAT filters.... IDK... 🤷♂️
I get my Cat filters for half price so that's all I get. If you play your cards right every year Cat has a half price filter sale buy them when they are on sale and get a years worth. It's normally in January February.
Doing oil samples with different filters I haven’t seen a big difference between oem, Donaldson, Baldwin, fleet filter. Just what I have tested. Seems if they wasn’t doing their job the samples would have came back bad with more metal in them.
i agree man! i work at an international/cummins shop and seen way too many filter failures! which is why we use international and fleetguard filters which are designed for those engines! Cheers!
@@92powerdiesel61 I wouldnt! wix are a good aftermarket but why would you run one if you can get your hands on a fleetguard? i would only run one if i couldnt get my hands on a fleetguard but its up to you!
@@uprednecked Ok, I've just gotta figure out how to get them. But after seeing this and your recommendation as a cummins tech I won't run anything else. Also do you like being a diesel tech? I love machines and don't really know what path I'm going to go down.
@@92powerdiesel61 you should be able to get them though any cummins dealer or international/KW or even freightliner dealer! i started as a auto mechanic and was tired of the pay so i switched over to medium/heavy duty and the pay is way better for me! but if you like cars nothing wrong with that! Cheers!
Now wait a minute, I have worked on a couple of cat 318 which are factory painted GREY. Cat dos not make a grey filter for it.( Ignore the fact that fuel and oil are canister type:) so do not say yellow for yellow. I am curious as to the history behind that donaldson. What was the condition of the oil, how far over service was it, what was the temp at failure. No you can't beat a cat filter for it's construction but fleetguard is made by cummins and comparable in spec's. Every thing I work on is local haul or off road and I tend to run a short interval any way's but the only filter failure I have seen is due to neglect on somebody's part. Love the opinion but can't agree to it in common life.
Good info, butttt Baldwin makes some/most of cat filters. Drove and mechanic/technicians around trucking most all my life, ran Wix, Donaldson, and Baldwin's off road on silage and grain harvesting never had rocks crack or make a filter leak or bottom end failure, been at trucking companies that have ran Baldwin and Fleetguard millions of miles no bottom end or oil related failures, good thoughts but no real benefit to the extra cost of cat filters.
Could the collapsed filters be pointing to a biger problem? A failed delta Pressure valve? My thinking Filth could only collapse an oil filter if the pressure differential valve failed... it is designed to bipass at 9psig(cummins B model spec I had a valve fail and split the oill cooler) to prevent dry starts on those cold winters when the plug is not used. Yes it'll start but should not be run cold. AKA excessively cold oil =unfiltered oil till the viscosity drops to a 9psi delta (more dirty/used up filter =higher temperatures before the filter is back in the loop)
The cause of the media collapse is most likely a malfunctioning bypass valve that allowed a high differential pressure across the media membrane. Also most likely to occur with moderate to high engine RPM at startup continuing until warmup with high viscosity lube oil on an unheated engine.
Did a tour at Baldwin filters along the way there was an area that was curtained off .looked in side there were Yellow filters being made . Asked the tour guide and he acknowledge the fact that they make Cat filters along with several other manufacturers. To there specs they are they largest filter manufacturers as of 2006 things may have changed
I know this is a old video but Cat filters are made by Donaldson and Baldwin are made by Parker. Either one is great but the if you fail to maintain the filters they will all fail. Abuse is just that and no filter will hold up. Parker and Donaldson filters are the best on the market so either way you can't go wrong. I run Baldwin/Parker because I'm on the national filter pricing which is a huge savings. Do with the information as you choose.
I only run cat filters one thing I like about cat they stand behind them warranty on that filter if it leaks I replace it plus a gallon of oil they just have a better hold up then most other filters
The school i went to for study of truck/bus Diesel mechanics uses fram filters for engine oil, fuel and coolant. The school has 2 trucks with cat engines fitted with twin turbos in it.
I've worked for people who were terrible and cheap on maintenance, and others that didn't mind spending money and getting premium parts. You do get what you pay for. I even get the pick up sized oil filter for my car, they're usually a little longer, been doing that for a long time.
Trivia question: why the hole in the main rail of the Caterpillar filter cutter??..... Time is up!! The hole is for the stub which is part of the filter for aircraft application engine oil filters, which MUST be cut open and inspected according to FAA regulations.
I knew cat filters would be better I mean cat makes better stuff any day of the week. Like that oil commercial " Guy 1 "it was cheaper" guy 2 "it's that all your engine is worth to you ?"
I just changed my 2 FASS tall filters on my Cumins Dodge. The front of the front filter had taken a couple hits that slightly dented the filter, and the rear of the back filter also had 2 minor dents… stronger steel exterior sounds better to me now! Btw, I do forest service roads getting firewood and a fair bit of gravel roads, and the FASS tall filters hang slightly lower than the surrounding metal. The back of the back filter dents did surprise me. I think I’m converted to be a Cat filter believer.
Well, they don't make them there anymore, the last 3 sets of Cat filters I bought were made in The Czech Republic. Hope they are made to the same specs.
at first I didn't really believe in filter brands until 2 Cat D11 dozers came in for a service. I changed a steering filter on one dozer with a after market filter that had 2k hours. the filter element was completely melted down and left crap in the steering. the other dozer had a cat filter that also had 2k hours on the filter completely intact, a little brown, due to wear but no crap in the system. yeah also i hate seeing the white donaldson filters on the truck cat engines. they sometimes don't also fit right while the cat ones always fit 100% with no problems
What did they do to that filter? How long did they have it in the truck? For that catastrophic to happen, something had to cause it. Then running the filter too long
BUY YOUR DIESEL FUEL AT HIGH-VOLUME LOCATIONS. I don’t bought my 1984 GMC K2500HD 6.2 diesel brand new. It has 300,000 miles on it… has the original injectors and I never did anything except change the stock fuel filter until last month when the Stanadyne housing gave up the ghost and I swapped it for a NOS mid 90’s GM fuel filter setup. I do run Power Service religiously.
I'm a O/O and use factory filters on my 3406B. My buddy runs a Ford Diesel pickup and only uses Motorcraft on his truck.... He hasn't had issues most guys have had with his truck, my 3406B rarely has any problems, although I'm doing rods n mains along with a oil pump this week, 400K on a rebuild the mechanical cats need a lil more pampering. easier to spend a couple grand than 10's of thousands
Josh, I would like to know more about your background in power generation. I am in EPG tech at my local dealership. The reason for me moving from trucks to EPG is the fact that our dealership became an international dealership and no longer had a specifically cat truck shop. I was wanting to know if the same thing is happening in your dealership. Thanks.
One of the cat dealers near me still runs a separate truck shop, but it was about a year ago they got rid of the truck side management and combined it with the ag.
To skimp on ANY Heavy Duty Filter especially the Oul Filter means your hauling too cheap a freight. I buy Fleetgaurd Filters for my Cummins N14 and do not give it a second thought. Scimp on the "all you can eat" buffets and save up for proper filters.
i find the price so close its better to use cat plus they deliver to a drop box for free .ive used baldwin cause that just been on the shelf at bulk station . and only cat for the hydraulic tank filters no comparison in quality.I try to keep my own stock of cat filters and cylinder seals . good video.
How many miles were on those collapsed filters? Failure to change them on a regular basis may cause the filter to plug. Without a bypass valve inside, the oil pump would suck the filter media together. Check out this bulletin from FRAM www.fram.com/support/tech-documents/consumer-documents/
As a tech in Indiana, I personally have noticed in cold months/weather, the CAT fuel filters have a 90% likelihood of the filter itself gelling. The finer micron material restricts the flow. The filters get dirty faster, and even at regular filer change intervals, they clog/gel at temperatures above "normal" for typical fuel gel situations. Winterized fuel and additives can't really be factored in, unless the vehicle is known to travel outside of the "cold zone".
Well with the Racor 450 2 micron fuel filter as I remember it, I had no problems at the -40*C for fuel gelling. So and for the 3years so far the filters i have now as they are the 1"/14 thread have worked very well, I am aware of that can happen and ???may get a 120vac HEATER. But maybe?? but not yet.
I have a 2007 C-15 Cat and looking to switch back to Cat filters, I have two choices it seems. A standard efficiency and a high efficiency. The engine is in an RV and I change the oil at 10,000 miles or less. I use AMSOIL max duty synthetic oil. Currently the previous owner was using Napa filters (bad). Any reason to not use the high efficiency filter and remove more of the smaller particles? The two filters are 1R-0749 (standard efficiency) and 1R-1808 (high efficiency). I live in Phoenix, so hot as crap....
My boss had OME mopar filter do the same thing his truck with a 5.9 cummins because he ran the filter to long 8500 miles, so on it, dodge wouldn't cover the damage
I have a 3406E and I use Donaldson filters because CAT filters cost almost 4 times more than Donaldson... What I do is to change the filters often I haven't had any issues till now 1 million miles on it and still strong 65psi oil pressure running 30psi Hot at idle... Turbo makes 30psi boost We have lots of hills and traffic
I do agree,I run a Scania engine,Scania only filters for me,big end out years ago ,crap filter let stuff though,end failed,genuine only ,that rebuild hurt.
How many miles did it need a rebuild? What engine was it? Thinking of changing mine to cat filters too. It's a Chinese made weichai engine but need a rebuild almost after 450k kilometres
Omg I was inspecting a cheap filter the other day and found a loose burr on the threads from the machine process. Couldn't believe it. Inspect your filters no matter what brand they are. CAT looks stout didn't care for the, "Nylon" center afraid it could melt during an overheat condition. Just my opion great video thx.
I wish you could get cat filters at the local auto parts store there’s not always a cat dealership near the job site! The cost is not the issue the nearest cat dealer might be hundreds of miles away from the job in the real world you get what you can get! If it’s 3 am and a machine is on its 3rd fuel filter of the day and I only have 2 left in the conex I can’t send someone 100 miles to get filters in the morning the machine would be down by the time they get back!
My boss uses cat filters on all his trucks except the one onlybtruck running the Detroit 60 series. That's how much he loves cat motors. Maybe I can talk him into adapting a cat filter? Lol! With a Detroit though doesn't matter what color the filter is. It'll match the engine after awhile as oil seeps everywhere. I secretly love detroit 60 series after he built a Peterbilt dump truck with a detroit. It has a good history, but I do prefer a Cat though.
Cat don’t make filters.... let that sink in...lol. I believe they are made by wix? The Donaldson filter that was destroyed, was probably caused by some other issue, if not it’s rare. I’ve ran them for many years and many miles with no issues and bearings have always looked great. I’ll have to cut one open to see what it looks like inside. Now I’m curious.
