Are CHEAP Catamarans EVER Worth It? [Full Tour] Learning the Lines 

I had a Gemini 105MC For a couple years. Pro: It’s a good sailing easily handled small catamaran good for coastal cruising. It’s about the cheapest decent catamaran available. The interior is functional with a queen+ bed. Compared to a similarly sized monohull, it’s faster, more stable, and has more room. Fits in a regular slip. Shoal draft is great in shallow water. Con: very light weight and has a lot of motion at anchor. Easy to overload with liveaboard stuff which dramatically reduces its performance. The tunnel under the bridge deck has weird angles that cause waves slap at anchor even in very small waves, After a while the noise drives me crazy. The kick up rudders bang around constantly at anchor. The crank down center boards have a poorly designed crank arrangement. The cockpit is pretty uncomfortable and small. Low bridge deck causes slamming going up wind, The table literally pops an inch or two when slammed. Due to the lightweight construction it’s pretty flexible which leads to a lot of Gel coat cracking, which lets water into the deck core and at the chainplates leading to rot. My boat had 6 inches thick of regular plywood in the bow beam supporting the forestay that rotted and was a big project to repair. The single diesel with a funky drive leg works, but is a bit cranky and prone to corrosion and parts come from England. I wonder how long they’re going to be available. Every boat is a compromise, The Gemini has many advantages over a monohull and has a budget price. Get a good survey and you better be handy with repairs. There was a firm in Florida that used to work on older Geminis, but based on my experience they are no longer interested, so you’ll be doing all your repairs yourself. Don’t expect high quality at a budget price. Older Geminis may not be worth repairing.

I have a 1997 Gemini 105M and you do pay a premium compared to a monohull. But I constantly get offers on mine because there are so few boats like them. For a relatively small package you get a lot of boat. We are in a Pacific Northwest and it is a great for our conditions. My wife has always been a nervous sailor but loves how stable the Gemini is, not to mention the queen size berth, flat floored head and big cockpit or fore deck for doing her exercises. Like this boat ours was a fixer upper and our engine might as well have been missing considering how poor condition it and the leg were in. I replaced them with the Yamaha High Thrust 25hp outboard and love the new set up. We can have a conversation in the cockpit with the engine running and you can barely hear it inside. The conversion also lightened the boat by several hundred pounds and gave me a place to add another water tank. The shallow draft has been great by allowing us to squeeze into anchor spots we wouldn't have considered with our old monohull. The boat has its quirks but there is a thriving online community of owners who have tackled whatever problem you have before. This is the perfect boat for our small family.

Best Gemini review I’ve seen so far. I learned exactly what I needed to know. Thanks

Thanks Jordan for adding the asking price. I gave up on your videos as you did not list prices and so appreciate the change. I've looked at Geminis and Prouts and agree with comments below this is much more expensive than comparable boats. I had thought about getting something similar and pulling the stick for canal cruising in Europe.. An engine would be nice for that usage however.

Thanks, I love the sound of the baby alligator chirping when you first go up the sugar scoop.

Tell the owner....he/she is dreaming!!! What are they thinking? 20.000 max and that is generous....

Thank you for the tour.... an interesting design....I'm sure a person could haggle with the price. I always enjoy your channel...You are the best.

My guess as that all it really is, is that yes it's over priced. Just to much that needs done along with a re-power that I would be willing to bet isn't cheap. Now if she was in good condition on the outside, with a good survey but remember there as some very nice Mono's for less ready to go sailing...

You guys do great showings

The prices for these on Yacht World now range from $60K to $110K, with $110K being a big outlier. They all appear ready to go. I would think something on the higher price range was also well maintained. I cant imaging this being worth much more than $30K and have to be the right buyer.

Solar panels can be installed topside, an electric motor can go in the hull, battery banks can be installed with backup power coming from the generator if needed. Sails could be employed for longer journeys. A/C could be installed along with other conveniences thanks to the greater power resources on board, possibly even a water desalination system. Alot of work but well worth it.

Thanks pal. Can you do a PDQ 32 or 36 review. Appreciate all your videos. Franco

I used to keep my boat (a 25 foot Mcgregor) in a slip across from the original facilty where Tony Smith built the Gemini 31/32. When he moved to a new location where he statred building the 105 models. But alas he ended up selling his company to a firm in Florida. The new owners ended up discarding the center board model with one with fix keels. Big mistake IMO for the center boards was what made the boat unique and the perfect boat for places like the Chesapeak Bay (shallow coastal cruising. ect ...).I always thought the Gemini was over priced at new and particuarly used. But I have always been drawn to them (center board model) for their ability to sail in skinny water when needed to,opening up more and intersting oportunities. I now am looking to find a Privilege 37 to use as a worl cruiser, Yes a small cat but somwhat afodable but seems impossible to find one for sale. If I decide to stay closer to home in my sailing adventures and forget about sailing on the open seas I may yet purchse the right Gemini 105 MC but not one older than a 2004. All used Geminis show spider craking on deck but notjhing to be really worried about that is their nature. I also do not care for a head without a dedicated shower stall, oh well. It is a small cat and anything other than a couple IMO, would be too crowded for extended lcruising. As a liveaboard, well it is what it is I guess, More of a weekend/month long live a board experience IMO. Tony Smith and his Son did sail the 105 MC across the Pond (from Annapolis to England one year but almost got into serious trouble on route, But Tony was an extremely experienced sailor and they made the crossing alive, Theu ended up selling the boat in England. Long comment this is I know. just saying

Lol, I wondered where this boat went??? It belonged to one of our neighbors and was always lift kept - as we do our own PDQ Power Catamaran in our backyard. Our cat is almost 17 feet wide and weighs about twice as much, but having it out of the water at the push of a button sure is worth it. They just sold their beautiful home and moved out the end of last month. Was wondering if they moved the Dragon to their new home. Guess not. 😜. I know that it was very well taken care of in case someone wanted to know. Money was never an issue for the sellers from what I know. Miss seeing it pass by our dock on its way out.

They are great coastal cruisers and perfect for the Bahamas, Keys and the great loop. If you run aground step off and push the boat free. There are better examples that are not as abused that would make a better buy. Seems like this one has been used hard and put away wet. Even still it is 21 years old so what can be expected.

in 2019 I nearly bought one of these to live aboard on a Georgia lake. It was in much, MUCH better conditions than this one ... and it was the same price!

Amazed by your knowledge of boats Jordan! Could you help us find a good boat? :)?

Great video. Silly question, are these small Gemini 105 blue-water sailing safe? 😊

Is the stove propane or alcohol? I noticed on the video there needs a new gasket around the forward porthole in the master cabin. Or are my eyes playing tricks? DOES it have heating and air?

That is a nice little weekender boat

I see a lot on the walls like the moisture has gotten to them causing them to waiver, maybe you could put in your tours the amount of mildew smell because this one looks like it has taken it’s toll

At first I thought $60K was good - then read a few of the comments. Not so sure. However, if you wanted to do an electric motor conversion, this particular boat might be good for that. Especially since in theory, a single electric motor shouldn't need the same redundancy you'd want from dual ICEs in a cat.

Way to much work for the price, I mean you have to find an engine to fit and get everything hooked up and running right and that crazing could be stress from twisting?

Hi in the uk. These catamaran are sort after. But I looked bingo importing new ones and second had ones to the uk. But the import tax system here sucks. Now it in a big NO to do. Forever best wishes to you all 🙏⛵️🙏🌟☀️🌎

Jordan found a time machine and became captain Q. Jk you guys are great , love the videos

I looked at the original listing and it implies a 27HP Westerbeke is included, and an asking price of $89,900. Perhaps the engine is out for service? The overall condition indicates to me an owner who did not keep up with basic maintenance. Every locker was filthy, the anchor locker was a disorganized mess, there was a lot of obvious rust, in addition to the massive amount of crazing. The ad indicated new upholstery, but it looked dirty and stained in the video. There are a few around of this vintage and $60K seems to be in the middle. But given the condition, I'd suspect a motivated seller and a bargain might be had.

Wow Double Dragon has been for sale for years now and is now priced higher than when she ran lol

Thanks for stating the headroom! Thats the deal maker/breaker. Randi looks exactly like my mom ( even though she isnt in this one.

Sorry, but no way would I pay that. The cracked gelcoat looks like flexation in the hull to bridge deck interface. I'd want to inspect all the bulkheads an tabbing before even riding it. Thus stripping back the complete interior and refitting everything. I'd be a buyer at 10K max. I'd consider it a run out rebuilder.

Looks to me like a $60K boat with a new engine/transmission/sail drive. When they fail, like this one has, many owners replace the whole thing with an economical 25 HP long shaft outboard. I'd be more inclined to replace with a higher HP motor and make this a motor sailer boat to do the Great Loop and some scooting around in the Bahamas as Jason suggested. The bigger motor, like a 50 HP would not be for higher cruising speed but to get through sketchy sections were wind/current/tide are working against you (there are few sections like that on the Great Loop). Sailboats are at anchor 95% of the time so this is an economical platform to enjoy that time living above the hulls with views. These boats are easily overloaded so if you have to carry every toy with you and have every comfort accessory the sailing experience will be diminished. The big negative that is obvious is the discomfort when sailing in anything but nearly flat seas. Most owners carry ear plugs for both the pounding when sailing and the extremely noisy stock motors when running them. If you love the actual act of sailing a boat this may not be the right choice. If you love the lifestyle of living on a boat (that 95% thing) with the comfort of a catamaran platform at a budget price, I think these are good choices. If you don't have a schedule and can sail/motor when conditions are optimal for comfort this could be your boat. The surface cracking is cosmetic and common on these boats. I think an all in price of $75K to $100K with everything perfect on board...EVERYTHING...is a good price for someone who fits the criteria above. In an effort to make that happen at the $75K price, I'd guess this boat is worth $35K as is. All boats are a compromise.

For most catamarans, the ideal Length to Width ratio is 2 to 1 for stability so a 35' catamaran would have a 17.5' beam. This has considerably less width. Yes it will fit in most regular slips but does not have an ideal design stability. Cutting down the rigging height does help with stability though and this cat's mast height seem to reflect that. As far as the motor and outdrive- the Sillette Sonic outdrive is no longer being made- you can get parts (will that continue?) but they are expensive. A new owner would want to know that the current Sonic drive is working. As far as a replacement diesel engine - a name brand a Yanmar or Westerbeek, even a Beta, will set you back some serious $s. You begin to wonder if a cheaper alternative is available. A Kubota tractor diesel with a heat exchanger, even an 1 cyl aircooled 10 hp diesel would drive this cat at 5-6 knots and you would not have to worry about water cooling, debris strainers, impellers and heat exchangers. The gelcoat crazing looks bad enough that an epoxy paint job may be needed. Or a lot of grinding and gelcoat color matching. Luckily the cat is small enough that gelcoat cutting and buffing would not be overwhelming. The Price- Does seem overpriced by the cost of a new engine and gelcoat repair- by about $10-15K. Many sailboat buyers nowadays seem to want to go cruising, thinking of the Bahamas and Caribbean. This cat would be ok for the Bahamas (crossing Gulf Stream on a calm day) but not suitable/comfortable for going south to the Caribbean.

I'm curious, can this be used as a blue water boat with a bit off work or not, and I saw this one a few times for sale when it were still in it's glory days.

For what is is designed to do I think it is great

6:11 what's that curious looking sailboat with mizzen mast

That boat was used hard. First clue is the cracking gel coat. That’s a lot of cracking. It may be cheap but you better have deep pockets for all the repairs. Sure wasn’t maintained. Great boat for a DIY person that’s if the cracking isn’t structural.

I thought having a solid deck might be a bonus over a trampoline until you mentioned the pounding that would be negated by the trampoline. Don't think I've seen a cat that didn't have the trampoline so that a good reason why besides being cheaper.

Ask the owner to put in a new motor in and barrier coat. Then pay 60 if the inspection gos right. That would be a good boat for Florida and Bahama adventures

Nope, For the same money you could buy a Whitby Alberg 37 that's for sale in florida right now for 10k and have 50,000 in your pocket to fix anything that even looks dodgy, Or a 38ft Irwin Citation for 19,500 and have 40k to sort anything needed sorted. Even a fully equipped Rafiki 37( windvane, good sails, motor full keel, blue water design, cutter rig ) for 28500. There are a load of great boats for sale in Florida at the moment, why you would even consider something as limited as that cat is beyond me. The only thing its got going for it is "i haz a cAtaMaRaN" ( not even mentioning the Alan Pape Cuttyhunk with full teak decks, beautiful condition for less than 35k..cutter rigged ketch.. stunning boat, one you SHOULD have covered )..

A little cramped but a nice little fun sailor for a weekender. Needs some sprucing up but could be a nice cat!

Looks like the perfect layout for you. I'm sure you could get it for $40,000. No engine is a big factor in lower value.

My guess, and take it for what it's worth as just a guess, this boat will sit there for a few more years at that price and slowly rot away. Eventually someone may come along and salvage some of the useful stuff and pay to have the carcass hauled off.

Not that it is comparable from a functional standpoint, but our friends have their excellent condition 1985 Sabre Mark I 38 monohull for sale at $56K. I can't see $60K for this boat.

Each of the 105's we've looked at had fiberglass spider cracks all over the deck. I wonder why they are prone to it?

Not a bad setup for a small cat, but think I'll stick with mono hulls

Bravo!

Did see how those dagger boards worked.

nice inside one could make comfortable a a reasonable cost , big expense would be outside and instruments , water maker , solar , batteries , MOTORS , one could spend 100-150K and depends on sails and rigging

I help a friend "rebuilt" one and convert it to outboard. too big of an outboard will squat the transom. We also had to use wiring on the outside as ripping off the liner involved making the problem worse. He also rebuilt one of swing up keels, and the propane fridge had issues. For what you showed in your video $60K is doubled overpriced - $30K is more likely as there will be another minimum $20K for DIY person to sink into. The lack of engine could be a blessing in disguise, as you could fit the latest Yamaha 25 outboard with high torque. Anyways that Westerbeak diesel is not reliable, and that leg drive is uncofortable to do maintenance I think you missed the two knobs that are use to raise the swing keel - understanding how well maintained is the mechanism can set you back $$$$ as they will rot is not maintained. The tops are build with balsa.....so get the pin hammer and see how soft they are. This could be a dealbreaker even if you get the boat down to the $30K it is probably worth. Double spreader rigs by nature will cost more to replace, and I am going to assume the haylard you thought was for a storm jib is actually used for a screecher or Spin. I did not see a folding bowsprit, but one can be made to retract or swing away giving much needed speed in light winds. If the gelcoat is too far gone, you are looking at painting the boar - for a DIY is not a big issue but lots of time. I did not see any hatches around the queen berth so it can be a hot place at night. Other than that - if the price is right I would buy it.

It wasn’t time to go inside, it was time to bail. LOL 😂

Port side wasted space would become a freezer and more refrigeration. Plus storage.

If you ever come across a Catalac 10M check it out, a skinny cat built in the UK.

Missing your usual shipmates, Randi & Morgan, But Randi must be back at her teaching job and Morgan is with day care, yes? What sir, were you wearing on your feet?

Does the small, narrow cat live in that cage? I think it is overpriced. The Gel coat would need completely checking out and fixing and a good engine plus install would set you back a lot of money. 10K US would be nearer the mark.

In a Lot of these boats every time you open a hatch they just look dirty inside. Not well maintained

And you don’t seem to notice the bad parts of the boat which, next year I am looking to spend about $100,000 for a boat and a little bit so I would love to find somebody online that I watch all the time I trust to notice everything to maybe employ to check boat out for me

I started at $60k, but by the end was down to $40k at most.

mold in the starboard seams.

Nice but as you said, headroom. Looks like a weekender.

At least 10 grand for a new motor and probably another 10 for unseen things. It would be an amazing boat for the Great Lakes. Price maybe 40 grand 60 a little too high.

Amazing for its size. I may look into these, but compared to big monos, even $60K seems over priced. But I guess cats are in demand. Nice boat.

60k U.S.... Well my guess was a bit off. It's the game I play and enjoy with Learning the Lines. See how close to asking price by end of vid. I like to think I've gotten good but this one I seriously tanked.

"A swinging dagger board"??? never heard of a swinging dagger board before. At least you have the right user name "learning the lines"

Didn't you mention a while ago that the Mantas are also made in the United States?

I would put twin 40hp on mine so I could motor sail fast if I needed.

60k? For this? Seriously? I suppose the Marine Trader with the window rattler attached to the back window with 5 tubes of 5200 is 80k :-). Can you reveal the boatyard, I’ve got a 1986 Bayliner stink potter 27 that is surely worth 25k easy lol

Looks like it was in disrepair and wasn't maintained.

Really intriguing boat. Definitely needs work. Not having an engine is not a negative these days as it is perfect opportunity to go electric. Plenty of solar space, and can for sure power a hydrogen. Would actually be a good boat to convert. $60? It looks in good shape but definitely had some concerns that are projects. However, the price is based on you don’t see many. When you are done with all your projects and fully outfitted the way you want, you will have one decent asset that will hold it’s value for the most part. . . . very intriguing boat.

Looks like a Tula project boat.

The baby stay has nothing to do with sails it is to prevent the mast from pumping. So knowing that what are you going to look for? You are suppose to walk on the deck house, the cat walk is only there for like docking. No you will not fall overboard because no one with any sailing sense would go forward from the leeward side, (well unless racing) that is the side under the wind, ... the side that is lower than the other "side". Gee you need to learn more "words". 11:35, Key words: I do not know what I am talking about. NEXT!

I think this is a cute little boat. And may be fun if everything worked. But asking $60,000.00 without an engine and the poor condition in my opinion is ridiculous. I totally disagree with your comment about the price. That is why we have so much over pricing, we just accept it. My opinion is it is junk. And should have a junk price. If I had to pick one good thing about the boat it would be the queen size bert. But it is missing a head. Thanks for the walk through.

Looks like a $20,000 or less boat to me

Yes the gelcoat on Geminis is terrible. Heavy oxidation and spider cracks.

I'll stick with my Prout Snowgoose

Run run run away

I would rather buy a hurricane damaged Lagoon 45 / 50 / 55 and fix it up personally ....... be worth a ;to more when finished compared to the Gemini

I love Food and Stuff

❤ Классный катамаран, жаль что нет денег купил себе.😂

I think if they really want 60k they will have to find someone smoking whatever they were smoking when they priced it.

She is definitely a project. I would hang a 50 or 65 horse outboard on her and she would have plenty of power

So much space on a cat. A much nicer place to live compare to a mono hull coffin?

I think a small bed and more room to move around otherwise I like it

It is a good project boat but 60 k for a Gemini without its diesel or the very expensive drive leg is delusional. On the other hand it is easy to convert to a single outboard and that space that once housed the westerbeke diesel makes a good locker

Hello

60 k is to much for her - needs engine, and gotta get rid of the stern drive.

I' d rather have a Seawind 1000

I wouldn't take it if it we're free

10 to 15 thousand top

Its a money pit...but nice job on showing what it had

I think 25 K is a realistic price range

Cheap ones may need a lot of upgrades which cost a fortune. Not worth it. My buddy learned his hard lesson.

These boats seem to have a very strong following and plenty have crossed oceans. I'm not saying it is a typical blue water boat you'd want to ride out a gale in, but they have done it, and come out no worse for wear than any other "blue water boat". That being said in my opinion it is way over priced. I've seen multiple splash and sail ready 105's sell for this price range and less. Pending a survey This could be a great platform for someone handy. The gel coat cracking is common on these boats so It wouldn't be a sticking point for me if the survey came back good. Yanmar 30's, and low alpha's can be easily fitted into the engine bay and attached to the stillete drive. The stillete drive is very easy to pull apart and rebuild if needed. I'd stay away from the westerbeke 30 that came in this boat. They are a pain to work on in the boat due to their layout. If it were me I'd probably go with a brand new Lister Petter Alpha with a little extra oomphf. Probably a 50 for extra thrust in strong currents. This boat also makes an excellent candidate to glass over the transom hole for the stillete, throw reinforcement plates and a hydraulic jack mount on and repower with a 25-50hp long shaft outboard. It really is new owners delight repowering this boat. NADA Average Retail has it at $54,350 average, and $48k low retail. I'd probably go in with my starting bid at 45k minus the cost of the repower and survey if I were going to buy it. I'd say it has enough room to be a great candidate for enough solar, wind and an electric motor, but weight is an issue on the Geminis and in order to get a big enough battery bank in there to run the electronics and the engine for any length of time I think she's going to be severely overloaded and suffer from it. Diesel and even gasoline offer way more power to fuel weight over batteries. The only advantage for electric would be the ability to regenerate on long crossings, which as you said isn't really the purpose of this boat.

Looks like its sale pending now...

Needs some epoxy love and maybe a Tesla motor, very nice boat imho, lots of space for its size, from what I understand a capable/comfortable inshore coastal craft, I am thinking it is priced way too high as it sits, there is a tonne of work to do, a pretty hefty investment to get it up to snuff imho, and then what? If I was rich I'd have this down in the back yard so when the earthquakes, meteors/gerbils/zombies and tsunamis hit I could bug out.

$60k without an engine?

Here’s a video of the designer crossing the Atlantic to England. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-CYBblEPemo4.html

A lot of saggy walls? What’s that from? Don’t really love it. An electric motor could fit.

definitely under utilized space, should have extended the main cabin out to the side

Good boat to convert to electric drive.

Hi, I would suggest that you read up on the Gemini before you review it. All of the things that you were uncertain about are well covered on line. Not a great review, sorry..

Crazing = rot. $60k? Hell no.