Are Cities Or The Suburbs Better For The Economy? | CNBC Marathon 

I'm so glad that strong towns are getting more eyes on this problem!

Finally, after 70 years, people are talking about this critical topic. Suburbs, highways, car centric plans, and single use zoning have ruined cities across Canada and the United States

I lived in the Mosaic District in Fairfax County, VA from 2017-2020. It was neat to see it gain popularity so quickly and become a case study of urban development in a suburban area. The Mosaic District is this dense, walkable place with a nice plaza and all kinds of shops and restaurants. There is a large outdoor screen where they show movies and live sports events, there's a lively farmers market, and it tends to stay busy with families, even around 10 -12 at night! It is surrounded by perhaps the most car-centric suburban development I've ever seen! So it's kind of this oasis away from the traffic congestion. It eventually became so popular a spot to hang out that they had to replace all the grass with turf and close down one of the through streets permanently. The transformation of an old warehouse into Caboose, a cafe and brewery that seats about 200+ people, extended pedestrian traffic across a very busy street. Hopefully they will redesign some of the surrounding streets and add more workforce housing in the Mosaic District to keep it growing!

US suburbs are unique and cannot been found anywhere in the rest of the world. Car centric living is a nightmare and I believe it is one of the main reason depression levels are soo high. People are disconnected and are isolated with no natural life occurring on the streets.

So happy this is being discussed! The issue with traditional urban design needs more awareness

Suburbs are awful, honestly. I lived in a walkable location in Europe for a year and it was life changing. I feel pretty depressed moving back to America. I can't bike anywhere here with the way my city is designed, yet it's not much different from the other cities I've lived in...god don't get me started about Houston.

My son became a remote worker. At first he loved it. But a 1.5 later, he said that the isolation was causing mental health issues. Believe me they were. He was becoming a completely different person. He quite his job and took up a trade although he also took a big pay cut. But he’s a lot happier now and a much better person.

Glad to see CNBC discussing this issue that has long been ignored.

This is likely the biggest issue we as a society are facing. It affects everything: housing, crime, climate, healthcare, our social cohesion, mental health, everything. And it's not getting nearly enough coverage.

It's not the suburbs vs the city. It's sprawl vs organic development.

_ It amazes me greatly the way I move from an average lifestyle to earning over 63k per month, utter shock is the word. I have understood a lot in the past few years to doubt that oppor-tunities abound in the financial markets, The only thing is to know where to focus....Thanks so much Rahul Sahil Gupta..

I believe city beautiful covers this more succinctly. Low density suburbans have such a high infrastructure cost per square mile that it is untenable after the first generation of infrastructure has run its course. A more dense/diverse setup would allow that cost per area to decrease and allow better efficiency and the plus of social centers.

The sad fact is, we knew this 70 years ago. We knew that the suburbs weren't financially viable, but we kept building anyway.

The automotive industry really did us a number.

Glad to see Chuck on this. Strong towns needs to go mainstream.

Cars are getting so expensive. We need to build neighborhoods where people don't need a car to get around

Bro, i litterally been saying to myself that they should turn rundown malls into bars and restaurants and this video literally calls it out. NICE

I'm just happy that finally this issue is coming to light. As soon as you take a moment too look at sprawling suburb design, you soon see the harsh reality of how economically difficult it is to manage.

Cities that are built for people and not car infrastructure..

Denser walkable neighborhoods with a variety of uses are always better doesnt really matter whether it feels suburban or urban. Build areas incrementally giving urself time to self correct errors and focus on having living working and recreation all in one and people will general be happier with the area while also being more efficient in a fiscal sense as well. Whether u want to attain an urban, suburban or even a semi-rural character this can still be achieved with this style of development people just need to be less rigid in how they think about it.

There is a variety of wants and needs from rural living, suburban living to skyscrapers to everything else in between. The problem in the US is that 80% of the land is zoned for single family detached houses. Mix commercial and residential is limited which necessitates car travel to do most tasks. Minimum parking requirements make it prohibitively expensive to build densely.

Suburbs aren’t inherently bad. It’s when the costs of roads get heavily subsidized instead of bike lanes and public transport despite being far less efficient use of public funds, and the fact in many areas there is no mixed use ALLOWED (which should concern everyone on both sides since that’s very anti free market)

I'm glad I saw that! Don't sit around all day complaining about the economy or waiting for a miracle. Invest today in something productive that will not only help you save money but also make a profit. Today, I can boast a portfolio of almost a million dollars, which I have achieved through consistent investing and also through working with an investment advisor

Europe has suburbs too, but they don't sprawl as large as most american. if you cant walk or take a buss to a shopping area within 30 minutes, then you have problems.

Cities where someone is in walking distance of all basic services and where transit connects the whole area with good frequency. A place with good land uses to minimize low productive spaces like surface parking lots and urban golf courses. Housing that provides homes for the lower, middle, and upper-class Alleyways to hide city services and some designed for quite or bustling liveable spaces

7 empty homes for every 1 homeless person is not a supply and demand problem. It’s a leadership problem.

The best solution: mixed zoning. Lots of mom and pop shops with apartments on top and quiet side streets for homes.

Suburbs are not the issue! Car dependency is the issue! Suburbs should be walkable and have public transit access. I currently live in an American suburban development and the only way for me to leave to get to the nearest city is by car. Driving should be optional. Unfortunately, driving is mandatory in America because public transportation is simply underdeveloped or nonexistent. So I think the question is not are cities better than the suburbs. The question is how do we make both of these places as livable and walkable as possible.

Bottom line: greediness is causing all these housing issues. Simple! And the people in power (it doesn't matter the party) are not doing enough.

Fairfax County hasn't been affordable since the early 2000's. Heck, my parents had to rent an income based apartment in the 90's just to get by as working class people. You could have used a better example.

Why is it so difficult for americans to understand the concept of small town? A town, no more than 1 Mile in diameter to be walkable. With a main street and a town center with buildings of about 4 stories (shops in the ground floor), around the town center row houses of about 3 stories and at the outer rim single family houses of 2 stories. No surface parking lots or minimum parking requirements and only narrow, slow street or car free streets where possible. Even people living at the edge of town can within 10 minutes comfortably walk to the town center for a coffee, grocery shopping, going to the school, train station and so on. A normal small town that everybody loves and the people who don't like it move to a small farm village or the big city. Suburbs are just not needed.

Sounds to me like zoning laws are the linchpin to the problem...reducing zoning laws to 2 classes 1. Mixed use and 2. Home, will reduce the problem overtime due to the increased flexibility that mixed use offers.

The infrastructure maintenance isn't planned, saved for, or taxed for from the beginning which is where the biggest problem lies. Anytime there is "extra" money in a municipal budget they find some way to spend it, same thing that caused the big issue for social security when Washington kept borrowing its funds for other things

The Mosaic District is a perfect example of combining community, housing, and accessibility. If you live in Mosaic, you almost never have to leave: you have a super Target, movie theater, large public quad, plenty of restaurants and bars, stores, etc. More of these could make people more happy, but might also make people too comfortable from ever living their district. However, rent in the Mosaic is comparably higher than other places and most housing units are corporately owned.

Suburs are always more expensive. Thing is that suburbs aren't really sustainable. It requires huge amount of roads, pipes, cables etc. with continuous maintenance on larger scale when compared to more dense development. Many suburbs are just running on negative in US, being subsidized by profitable denser neighborhoods, especially mixed use land. Not to mention resources needed to use car for relatively long distance transport and shopping. Not to mention by having more dense housing, you can leave more space for nature and other things.

Local governments need to allow condos to be built that are studios or 1-2 bedroom 500 square foot units

Walkable cities tend to be even better. Walking people spend more money into local businesses and economy

So you are starting to build cities like every city in Europe :) WoW mindblown design

Yay Strong Towns! I’m so glad the good word is getting out.

Remote work has long been a thing for development of digital products. However, the prospect of decision-makers in physical industries being even more out of touch with the work being done and the physical spaces that work is happening in or that it affects is a bit alarming.

The problem that is not mentioned is crime in cities. I live in Minneapolis and it used to be a wonderful place to work and play. Now Minnepolis is dangerous to go to alone even during the day without worrying about your safety. We have some pretty big issues coming up on how we are all going to afford to live and work together in a safe, encouraging, and vibrant place that makes quality of life better for all. Living in the suberbs is hard because it is more isolating, less walkable, and transporatation is an issue.

I have a question; why don't they raise property taxes for these suburban communities ?

.......when it comes to city planning, US has alot to learn from East Asia countries, as a person who experience actual city life there, it wasn't until when I lived in US suburb for almost a decades, when I realized how this suburb enviroment has changed my way of thinking, I basically lived two verry different kind of lives, with very stark contrast, and I found myself asking is that good? which kind of livelihood do I like it more? And the answer is pretty obvious, everytime when I go back to the place where I first grew up, I feel I have more freedom to walk to anywhere, rather than always have to drive and plan your route, I feel sooooo much more convenient and wayyy less tiresome to have actual good public transport, high quality subway system, and high speed rail to get to anywhere in a country in a couple hours, rather than driving every time when you step out of your home, worse yet, risk doozing off driving on the freeway. I feel I eat significantly better when there's actual good local food and night market just around the corner or a few blocks away, not to mention numerous underground mall and food court connecting to a subway station, not chain store fast food drive through at every intersection. I feel like I want to go social with friends more, and I got to meet new people more often, I found that one of the main reason that always turns me off to go meet someone, is that I have to drive for 30 min plus dealing with traffic just to do that......might as well stay home and do my thing. I hope more government officials from both party would see just how harmful suburb has proved to be, they claim to "serve" us and "better" our lives......might wanna start here in city planning? It's pretty practical and it ACTUALLY can potentially improve us normal citizen lives. Ultimately, we as American need to stop having "suburb thinking", we need to BUILD UP our city not EXPANDING it, we need to stop seeing downtown and inner city as a cesspool of the poor and homeless, but as the main center for all the best that a city can offer, the cleanest street, the most beautiful parks and squares, the tallest skyscraper and office building, and instead of freeway all converging there, end the freeway before it comes in, instead make the underground subway station some of the cleanest, biggest, most efficient on time train u can have, attract people to go underground for train, shopping, meal, or just to chill, make the city run underground, on the subway. In my hometown the main city square is so huge that it has a green space, two beautiful concert hall, and a national monument. The main rail station has 4 underground floor that connects to two subway line, one local rail line, the high speed rail, and a airport subway system to take people to the international airport, along with a underground street that's 3 subway station long, consist of numerous restaurant, a food court, libraries, stores, and like two general social place. How's that for convenience! I know this may seems like a pipe dream in the US, but I'm hopeful....if my hometown, the capital of a small island can be like this, why can't we? But in the meantime, I'll be waiting for my next opportunity to go back, and I'm not letting my next generation live in a cold isolate enviroment.

My family was one of the first people to move into the mosaic when I was in 10th grade. I got my first job there. All my friends hung out there. I went on my first date and most of the following there. This is all while being within 1000 ft of my front door. It was great. I rule see nothing wrong with these developments.

Glad to see that this long and ever exacerbating issue has finally been brought up. Beside all those meaningful discussions, the fundamental question is how to re-establish affordability back into cities and into those newly developed neighbourhoods?? All those new neighbourhoods presented in this coverage are in reality rather an expansion of urban gentrification planned by developers. So it seems exemplifying a solution concerning the suburban problems, but it is not! cause the condos and units in those new areas are still too expensive. If we take a look on the very evolution of our labour/ job market and on the evolution of production system in near future, the affordability will be even more important to keep and preserve city’s creative dynamics. But no one seems to have an answer in this regard.

How can I make a profitable investment in crypto without incurring much loss?

I like how the automobile makes a silent, sinister appearance near the end as the culprit: enabler of all the sprawl driven slow economic meltdown. Bravo.

The day I can afford one, I'm leaving the city life and going into a big house in the suburbs, simply because I don't like being around too many people.

I think Cnbc just watched “Not Just Bikes” channel.

When you look at the last old school suburb walkable areas left, it looks so wonderful. It’s a shame we can’t or aren’t allowed to build new suburbs like that. It’s ok to have a barbershop 2 blocks down the street, or a cafe up the road. A dance studio in the middle of the block? Ok maybe I’m pushing it, but the corner house may want to start a dance studio, why not let them? Wouldn’t it be nice if there was a “center of town” with small shops, and a park? Why do I have to drive just to go food shopping? The crazy thing is before the 1950’s, most suburbs were walkable. Even crazier? The very few walkable areas are the most wanted areas. It’s amazing how it’s not more of a thing.

Great Video, Just want to ask, is this the best strategy in your opinion? Also what should we avoid? Thanks!

How about neither and a balance of the two ? Zoning laws in the US are so prohibitive its crazy . Living and traveling abroad the suburbs .. Having nothing within walking distance . And strict zoning laws make them a terrible design and exacerbate traffic, pollution, and decrease quality of life . The also cut us of and we live in bubbles which hurts society . Suburbs are the worst part of the USA .. cheap track homes that trap people in debt , in turn in jobs they hate , commuting hours each day only to rinse and repeat.. and to relax you’ll drink your nights away leading to depression and health problems . Major fail .

so, why isn't America drastically improving Public Transportation Infrastructure? Ever been to Europe or Asia?

The entire premise of Cities vs Suburbs is build on a false dichtomy, because all places have the potential to be great or terrible depending on how they are managed, regulated and zoned. Whether you look at cities in the Netherlands, suburbs in Japan or small rural towns in Germany, we have many examples of how to build well and there is no reason the U.S. can't do so too.

Every American, if they have the means of doing so, should visit the Netherlands and/or Denmark, so they can see for themselves how much better non-car dependent cities feel to live in.

Pretty clear-cut, looking at the productivity per area and population. Density wins. Suburbs are isolated money sinks.

Thank y'all for making this video, it's so thorough and eye opening for people who haven't thought about urban development beforehand. So many other issues connect to this!

I personally think revisions are needed. But as someone who grew up in the city and currently live in the suburbs.... I genuinely love having a yard & fewer neighbors 😂

Fairfax county is an unfair example of a place people are moving to away from a big city because DC is, comparatively to actual big cities, a tiny city or big town - not many people really really live there.

I moved to Austin, TX few years ago, and have 3 options to buy: 1. Townhouse or condo in newly built duplex 5 miles from downtown on tiny lot costs between 750k to 1.2 million for 1500 sq ft. Its nice walkable neighborhood, feels fancy and modern but nothing luxury. Also, almost no trees. 2. House in nice established neighborhood in north Austin but not suburb yet would cost $400-450k with same sq footage. Much larger lot, older trees and very livable 3. House in suburb like Round Rock would cost $350k. Even larger lot and very spread out boring suburb. What should I choose? I'd love to go with option 1 and live more walkable urban life (again its not super expensive downtown yet), but why in the world they cost 2-3X more than same single family houses?! Change zoning and allow for more 2-4 unit houses. Living in duplex is great, when you can rent another unit. However, most duplexes in Austin are in so-so neighborhood and vast majority is under 1000 sq ft.

suburbs are the best thing happened in US housing history. If they wanna build more affordable housing, build it in city. Take out highways from middle of the Downtown, get rid of rent control, loose house building regulations and shorten time to attain permit.

THANKS BRO IT WORKED!

Most of my childhood and until I was 50 I lived in Fairfax County-rural and suburban-Mount Vernon area. Now I’m out West-hot and dry now! 🥵 The neighborhood I live in now used to be a strawberry farm.

The US zoning areas purely residential is crazy. Requiring a car to get to anywhere, even in urban places, is bad enough but then you add in the social isolation that it so largely contributes and its really bad. AND THEN you add in the fact that between the lower tax density and the increased cost of providing services to these areas makes your town/city go broke and you gotta admit its just dumb. A bunch of technocrats guessed what the city of the future would be as cars proliferated in a post highway system country and made a bunch of planning decisions which are going to take decades to fix.

The biggest issue that this won't address in the near-term -> improving school districts. Everyone I know loves living in the city. But will move to start a family in the suburbs because the schools are so much better. Perhaps the trend of having fewer kids will help this housing issue but it takes a long time to recover a tax base to improve schools.

Ridership on the New York city subway peaked in 1946 and went downhill from there.

The problem that I have experienced with urban areas is that the monthly rent costs as much as my annual income.

I live in the suburbs because I get claustrophobic in towns and cities... college towns are too much for me...

Other major factors besides cost and congestion not mentioned in this video is crime and corruption. They are also keeping people from living in big cities

I think a Hybrid work approach with healthy work relationships is the best.

Why not turn half dead malls into apartments with built in stores and restaurants

How many millionaires do you know who have become wealthy by investing in savings accounts? I rest my case

4:51 - "And so a complaint that's often made is, well, you know, it's typically higher end housing that tends to be built. Well, the challenge is it's impossible to build 20-year-old apartment buildings. The only way to get 20-year-old apartment buildings is to build t today." So sick of this mentality, literally just a continuation of trickle down economics. The needs of working class (not even talking about people in poverty) are becoming more and more of an afterthought. We are expected to catch the few crumbs that fall from the table of the upperclass and be content. F*** waiting 20+ years for affordable housing, we need a revival of direct government investment in the middle class! No more handouts to developers just for them to set aside 2% of their units as "affordable" and then only hold as affordable for the next 10-15 years B.S. The federal government needs to do what it did back in the 40s with the GI Bill, but for everybody! Also, what it did in the 50s with the Public Works Administration to build public housing developments. Alternatively, Housing Co-ops and Community Land Trusts are another way to free ourselves from these greddy landlords! #landlordsareparasites

Not good for business since concentrated population in city centers allows foot traffic which are opportunities for businesses. It’s more costly for businesses to operate in the suburbs since populations are less dense and will require more shops or branches to reach potential customers.

moving to atlanta from nyc has been my dream since 2017

Fairfax county has been in the top 10 most expensive counties in America for about 2 decades… maybe not “typical” as hoped (that is top 99.8th percent)

I like the suburbs. I’m in Cleveland and as a black man born and raised in the ghettos of Cleveland, I thank God for giving me the strength to work hard, study hard, and grant me the opportunity to achieve a degree and land a nice paying job to get myself and family up out of the city. I live in a beautiful suburb, low taxes, low crime, excellent public school district, plentiful shopping and parks and recreation. Why that hell should anyone be subjected to inner city living, I’m sure those who could get out would. Doesn’t matter NYC, Chicago, St. Louis, or here in Cleveland…high crime, poor quality of schooling, how levels of pollution, and drama.

I been working for the same company for 15 years. I would love to move closer. But the cost of living is to high in that area. But one thing I would never do is to move closer to be in a small studio apartment. No Thanks. I want a big house with a big yard. I'll keep commuting if that's the case.

i like how they added the long island railroad. people avoid it because its $22 each way

Suburbs are best and a dream come true to own a house there. I don't want to live in a densly crowded city.

Good that You included Charles Marohn in the video, his 2 books should be read by anyone interested in this topic! :)

The question should be what's better for people, not the economy.

Learn from singapore. We have one of the most successful city planning m social housing globally. Our social housing is profitable n built by good architects

Wow, The US finally figured out what Europe known for centuries.

#EndStroads2023

YAY MY SUBURB is on the top 10 suburbs that he showed :)

How long and how much it takes to get a permit in California ? How many permits were issued in 2021, 2022, 2019?

"Not Just Bikes" address this issue on a weekly basis... great videos. Basically, our car dependency is killing us. Literally. Federal Gov build infrastructures... and incite people to move in the suburbs. Then the suburbs needs to grow for maintenance. Then the Fed Giv needs to jump in and build new infrastructures. Then people buy more cars... I could repeat that last line 20 times. Its a catch 22 of spending and car dependency non sense.

Subs are awesome… more peaceful cuz less people and more land

lol, I thought @26:23 was San Marcos Premium Outlet

Fantastic video

The highest ranked/most livable cities in the world have basic needs in walking distance. Separated bicycle lanes, and pedestrian areas. Literally no American city can compete with the top cities in terms of livability. Check out the Mercer Quality of Living or Economist Intelligence Unit Livability Index. They have cities like Vienna at 1 and US cities way behind. Vienna is mostly six or seven story low rises with mixed use, biking, and pedestrian areas.

Most outer suburbs will simply disappear over time. They were a phenomenon of the 20th century economy. The future is about contraction and consolidation.

it seems like there should be a public/private pratnership to plan better communities in general.

Am so glad I am in house with 3 acres just 15 minutes away from a major city and in the state of california

I think what we have to consider is that densely populated areas has a higher crime rate. Which means that there are less people willing to live in city and wanting to live suburbans. And the other issue is that once you start having public transit the tax revenue tends to go up. In comparison to rural areas. No let’s also consider two that the more homes are being billed equals GDP. For anybody interested, I would suggest you do a Google search of how revenue works in the city.

Cities are productive places that produce more tax revenue than they consume while subsidizing the suburbs, which need to constantly expand. I can attest to this. In the town I grew up in, the downtown areas and the older suburbs (built before the 1940s, with a mix of small-lot single-family homes and low-rise apartment buildings) were always more financially sustainable than the sprawling suburbs that needed to be served by freeways. Also, car infrastructure is a drain on cities, while well-run public transit can actually turn a profit (London's Tube, for instance, brings in more money than it spends every year). And of course there are the health and social costs associated with designing cities for cars instead of people.

I mean, it's like there going back to the design of the small railroad town. Where people lived 3 or 4 stories above main street. But instead thier adding a half dozen mainstreets.

I like apartments for the most part but the bottom line most buildings need sound proofing. Hearing neighbors is annoying. I moved to the suburbs because of this and having a backyard is nice

Europeans have figured this out many years ago. Just look at the EU cities, old or young, there are apartment complexes with retail ground floor. People are walking, shopping, eating on every corner while leaving on the upper floors. They figured it out, and we should look and learned more closely.