So basically, the only time you want to do kipping pull-ups is when you are competing in Crossfit. Other than that, there is no reason to ever do kipping pull-ups. That's what I understood.
The fact that this guy can really do kipping pullups perfectly and with great form (best seen when in slow motion) and stilll looks ridiculous says a lot about this thing.
I kind of agree with the baseline of the video. On another hand, I do feel some context is missing and there are some missed benefits of the kipping pullups that are overlooked: - On a crossfit session, you have a "work on strength and technique" section as well as a "sport"/"game" part We never have kipping pull-ups showing on workouts without doing some strict pullups and shoulder mobility exercises first... Should you not run or play tennis, unless you compete, as it is not good for your joints!? - Kipping while not great for strength is great as a skill...I see benefits there for things like learning to control your body, optimize movement patterns, coordination... Gymnasts are super athletes and they are masters in using momentum....why do we hate that in crossfit but not in gymnastics? Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of examples of people doing momentum-based movements without establishing a proper skills and strength baseline first. In the same fashion, you can find loads of examples of people doing calisthenics or bodybuilding exercises (or any other sport for that matter) without proper technique and fundamentals. People have egos (myself included) and we are all at risk of taking bad decisions when working out or playing a sport because of it. Love your content btw!
Would be as simple as changing the rules of those so called competitions and not allow kipping. Safer for the athletes and les humiliation for the sport
@Peter Hofmann Grow up Peter. Based on the number of stupid replies you have posted against this video, clearly your love of Crossfit has blinded you to the reality of the "sport". In its current state, Crossfit IS an absolute joke. Their competitions include calisthenics movements, yet don't enforce form, and their lifting events are all light-weight-high-reps. Crossfit is the Steeplechase of lifting, but the people doing it behave like it's "serious business" and have an ego the size of a skyscraper. Sure the competitions are tiring, any compound-lift/fitness event will be tiring, but if you can win a Crossfit comp and be crap at each individual event. If you win a deadlift comp, you've established that you're the guy with the strongest deadlift in your area, for your class. If you win a Crossfit comp, you've established that you're the guy who can do '25 butterfly pullups, 25 clean and jerks not touching the ground and with 10kg plates on the bar, 25 burpees, etc'. It's just a random bunch of exercises turned into an event by linking them with a clock. It's a recipe for developing injuries, bad form and it doesn't promote the goal of making you strong as you can be, due to the need to get used to rushing movements.
Perhaps we can all agree HIIT training is good, lifting weights and doing calisthenics is good, and doing things with good form is good. I think Crossfit has a good exercise selection for all this, but I could never defend the kipping pullup. No other fitness community uses it. No educated S&C coach uses them for sports athletes.
strict doesnt equal quality, just saying that kipping only benefits competition is dumb and simplistic, like saying u should only do push ups OR hs pu's OR one hand pu's, but not the 3 or more the same as doing strict lifts, pressing instead of jerking, when its obvious that u can lift more if u use momentum and if u get injured while kipping u r not doing it correctly, so u suck at it and should improve that too
@@neoskhaos Actually, strict does mean quality. No swings, no kicks, minimal momentum and energy leaks in whichever loose joint not being tightened up, and finally keeping all body parts where they need to be during the entirety of the rep, slow and steady (okay, not necessarily slow). All these things give you best stress on the muscles with minimal risk of injury. I would like to hear your argument as to why this is not the case.
@@neoskhaos Push press/jerk is not the same as kipping because of force prodution. Kipping can have its place, but you might as well spend your time on strict pullups.
The kipping isn't made for training, they're made for competition to maximise results under the given ruleset. People who don't plan to compete in CrossFit don't need to concern themselves with kipping pullups.
Bullshit! Some people workout to increase their endurance, not strength. Then butterfly pull ups are better. This is the same difference like between overhead press and jerks. Crossfit is endurance sport.
@@shayden598 There is nothing wrong with crossfit, just skip the butterfly pull ups. When I have to do non strict pull ups, I do the kipping ones (not the butterfly), which are pretty easy to do and is almost impossible to get injured since the rotation in the shoulder during the movement is basically the same as a regular pull up, as shown in the video. That being said, if I had to do pull ups in 10 reps or less, I always do the strict ones because there was a time when I was leaving strict pull ups behing to do the kipping ones only and I lost a lot of strengh in the back, and I realize because for me rowing was harder everyday. Now back to strict pull ups, and rowing starts to feel like a breeze again.
@@SuperLisandro86 there is something wrong with cross fit, you just proved it. Hey guys lets do a bunch of exercises( some of which are pointless or dangerous) in a rushed competition style. You know people are competing in class. even when its just a class day, trying to out do or keep up with others encourages people to do exercise when they lose their form from exhastion and they should quit or rest. Also the fact that they push this crap pull up should tell you that the industry is not truely concerned with health and well being, but do what you want. Honestly tho be careful and continue to use your head if you choose to stay in crossfit.
In crossfit you do pull ups to complete a workout not for strength or aesthetics. It makes a lot of sense to conserve energy any way you can in crossfit.
@@alexsanchez1081 yeah what im saying is other people just laugh and say crossfit pullups are bad, but dont explain why, but calisthenicmovement actually did explain why
@@lukecamus5871 Calisthenicmovement just framed it in a nice way. They still think it's idiotic to do kipping pull-ups (unless, of course like specified, you do competitions, which very few people do)
To be fair, even this video is basically making fun of Crossfit pullups. The only pro they could think of is that you can get do more reps with kipping.
shawny for CrossFit competitions. He’s saying you can train to be good at this kind of pull-up but training to be good at the strict pull-ups is better in every single way except for being able to do more kipping pull-ups. So train a useless movement to get better at a useless movement or train to get better at a much more practical and smart way to grow stronger and gain size if you do them right. And before you ask, yes I can do a pull-up. I can do quite a few actually very slow controlled reps with more than a 45 lb weight. Since apparently to you the only thing that matters is anecdote and not scientific evidence that kipping is terrible. I think that’s what you’re trying to say at least
@@thelocdesiringentryintoyou3686 Ok so...it seems like you didn't get the video. He is saying that kipping is for COMPETITION. He never said to practice it for strength or power or whatever. In the video he said that kipping was is used for the purpose of the CrossFit games, he also said that in order for you to be able to do kipping, strict pull ups are a prerequisite. Hence anyone with a brain would conclude that ALL crossfitters CAN do strict pullups, I mean what is wrong with you? Look at CrossFit athletes, they are fit and well built, do you really think they can't do a pull up? Stop being a dumbass like the clown above.
Ive been doing calisthenics for over 3 years and when i went to the crossfit gym i couldnt believe the monstrosity i witnessed with everybody looking like they had a seizure
Very informative! I didn’t realize the difference between kipping and butterfly pull-ups. Not realizing the difference between them was causing confusion for me.
The player chooses to play the game. It doesn't matter what the rules are, the player is the only one with agency-- so they're the only one to blame for their choices. Are the rules going to be injured for life?
@@TheRedDaren I received a free trial membership at a CrossFit location. It's always good to feel a sense of community. Unless it is a cult. I obviously played competitive sports in college. The utter lack of technique was disturbing. I felt sorry for those who came to them with no prior athletic training. Those where the ones who got hurt the most and all the time. That being said. If you do have previous athletic training. You'll know what is right and wrong for your body like I did.
@Peter Hofmann You're right. I have already swollen certain parts of my left hand by doing chin-ups. Can't blame the exercise though. I have sensitive skin.
@ukguy yea mate never try those crossfire pull ups if you have a torn rotator cuff those crossfire pull ups will fuck you up when more then what you are already
Elbows too, damn I dropped from a pullup too fast yesterday and I'm still feeling uncomfortable in the joint. I can't even imagine the long term damages these pullups would do to the joints.
Kipping pullups are about creating a more efficient movement pattern to complete the work. Raising your body up to the top of the bar. Think: Overhead press vs push jerk Olympic weightlifting is about putting the maximum weight over head. Pressing strictly would provide all the benefits you mentioned of strict pullups. Why don't people do it? because its not the best way to get more weight overhead.
The problems come when they market it as an legit exercise, and regular people in class, with no real intention of competing, are being taught to do only the kipping versions and it's not just that, it's push press over regular press, and high reps of already risky, competition only heavy lifting like cleans, snatch, and even deadlift
Good analysis. I am an 11 year crossfitter and love it.....but I do agree that there are some very valid criticisms. With regards to the pullups, Glassman stated several .months ago his regret on teaching thr kipping pullups. Doing the strict pullups vs kip is by far the better strength building movment.
Crossfit culture could've crushed the strict pullup in utilization. The kipping pullup just isn't a necessary exercise. It's removal would not degrade anything. The kip itself is important (hollow body position, gymnastic, MU work, etc), but not for strength and/or metcons.
This is the nicest way anyone could've ever explained why are crossfit pull ups bad for you, unless you are doing CrossFit competitions (which I respect of course, but I'd change this rule into: No fish kipping pull ups).Those who disliked this are either people who hate anything related to Street Workout/Calisthenics, CrossFit athletes who are full of their ego or again, CrossFit athletes who cannot accept honest and well explained criticism.
When it comes to doing as many pull ups as possible in a defined time period, it is challenging to maintain perfect form. Probably all athletes will start to do a slight pull with their legs to get the chin over the bar when getting tired. For a competition it is hard to define what exactly still counts as strict and distinguish between a using slightly bent hip to maintain balance and a cheat rep where you use your abs and hip flexor to support the upward movement. So I understand why they chose to only demand extended arms and the chin over the bar as criteria, although I would love to see the athletes doing nice strict pull ups at the crossfit games.
I could say the same for anyone who like the video vice versa. Thats not true and its one perspective most people dont have the technique to perform gymnastic elements so yes people would look dumb. There is no evidence people get injured, thats just an biased opinion based on zero facts (your friend who once did crossfit and hurt himself is not evidence) the people who criticize dont train in a crossfit gym, and dont perform any of the elements.
Absolute truth. I mainly do CrossFit and only do the kipping and butterfly pull ups during metcon (when it doesn't say strict). I always tell others to establish strict pullup strength first before attempting to do kipping and butterflies. Other than that I train with strict pullups for strength, endurance and efficiency. PS: For bashers, never underestimate professional CrossFit athletes. You don't have an idea how much strength they have on calisthenics and most especially olympic lifting.
@@kdta91 , Pro crossfitters are rare. Crossfit could've dominated the strict pullup. Would you use the kipping pullup to train sports athletes, soldiers, and people just trying to get healthy? If it wasn't popularized, would you still do them?
Thanks for the heads up El Eggs. I would rather practice my pull ups using body-weight rows, negative pull ups, cat hang pull ups, or jackknife pull ups. They all can add resistance with moderate intensity.
I would bet 20e he's the one who built it for everyone to use and get into the calisthenics. To get something back to community where he lives...I am thinking to do such a thing because I would like to start calisthenics but as I see it , I would need to invest in such park myself instead of city council to get one.
Great video! Loved to watch it! BTW in CrossFit we use the Strict Pull Up for strength, and the Kipping / Butterfly Pull Up for endurance. Amazing video!!! 💪
I used to do Crossfit, especially gymnastics classes. We used kipping pullups as a technical exercise that's part of a progression to muscle ups, going through chest to bar and butterfly pullups. They were only done by athletes who could do 10 strict form pullups and had good swinging technique, and everyone did strict or weighted pullups as well as a strength exercise. I didn't see anyone get injured when following these guidelines, but then again I was lucky to have a trainer who didn't make us take risks just to feel hardcore. And of course the main reason we trained it is that it's part of Crossfit competitions.
@Peter Hofmann i agree...my main problem with crossfit is that whilst some crossfit athletes can do moves strict a very good majority of athletes don't, they haven't the strength to do anything strict and that's what makes crossfit unfortunate. also kipping always makes a movement easier. anyhow crossfit is here to stay regardless
mandla kei lol not just some athletes😅 every competitive CrossFit athlete would have a large strict strength base and more then likely a bigger strict strength base then all the keyboard warriors on this comments section. You don’t think that people can just walk straight into a CrossFit gym and do 50 unbroken Kipling pull ups without being able to do a handful of strict ones!? Being good at strict pull ups helps build the strength and muscle endurance to do large sets of Kipping ones
@@clintiacuone1703 that still proves my point though because there are far more beginners and but a handful of pros.... in every sport, for every elite athlete there are probably 100000 "beginners" doing bullcrack even in calisthenics
That’s why I always tell everyone that you are the best fitness guru!! You explain so well in the level that almost all will understand. ❤️ Whenever I do something wrong and my trainer/my boyfriend would correct me, I am too stubborn to listen and shut him off. Then he would answer me with these simple words, “If the German guys will correct you, will you answer them that way?” Then finally I will listen. Haha!
I did crossfit for four years. I worked out at my "box" on average four days a week. Kipping pullups were, of course, a regular part of the routines. I gave up cross fit after developing rotator cuff tendinitis. I am sure it was kipping pull ups that gave me the tendinitis. In the five years since I quit crossfit, despite regular physical therapy, the injury has not completely healed and probably never will.
@no name You're a fucking moron. But I'm sure that's not the first time you've heard that. They're looking for candidates for next season's My 600lb Life. You'd be perfect.
This is my issue with crossfit in general. It started out as a way to get into shape. Then it turned into a competition on who works out the fastest. My wife joined the crossfit cult two years ago. I'll be the first to say, she looks great. She's 37 and the mother of three kids, and she has the body of a 20 year old. That being said, I've seen her working out many times. I've noticed it's always quantity over quality. I honestly worry about the day she comes home with a life changing injury. "I play real sports, I'm not trying to be the best at working out"- Kenny Powers
This dude at the gym was shit talking me because I did 20 pull ups. I said let me see you do better and he started doing Kippings. I said hold on jerkweed let me see you do a real pull up. He couldn't ever complete 5 clean pull ups. It just shows you all cross fit is, is lifting weight with momentum, not your actual muscles with control. The Kpping is a fucking joke because 50% of the pullup is momentum.
Show me a Crossfit athlete who hurt him-/herself doing butterflies (except maybe hitting the nose or slipping from the bar). The only time I damaged my lats was when I did a muscle-up after a workout, not from butterflies. At our box, there are at least 20 people who can do butterfly pullups and many have been doing them for years. I don't know of anyone who injured him-/herself. Also, it's not just for competition - it turns the pullup into a half-strength, half-cardio exercise (try the exercise "Fran" and you'll know what I mean). It's simply a different exercise. Plus - yes - it's faster. JFYI - as 19.3 Crossfit Open competition shows (incl. 50 strict HSPU), the CF community also trains strict movements. Variety of exercises isn't a bad thing, and should include both strict and kipping - admittedly in that order and not the other way around, in terms of skills development!
I will say that when watching the crossfit games it is kind of neat to see a side view of all the competitors doing "pull-ups" and just how they all look like pistons of an engine. Other than that I always felt like it was a cheap movement. Great Video!!
"Every manner of pull-up has its diehard fans. Wide and narrow grip, single and double suspension points, wide handle, rotating bar, slow, and behind the head all have their staunch supporters. "The default CrossFit pull-up, however - a violent, kipping, “anyhow” pull-up - has few supporters even among pullup connoisseurs. Ours has always been the “cheating” pull-up. Kipping comes in a myriad of styles, and each athlete has a signature kip, but in its most elegant form the kip is a transference of movement first generated in the horizontal plane, where it comes cheap and easy, to the vertical plane, where momentum and a perfectly timed pull from the back launch the athlete forcefully upward. This “cheat” derives from a powerful and athletic reversal of hip direction - like that of the clean and the snatch - and expands the primary movers from just the back and arms down through the torso and hip to include the power zone. Far from being a cheat, kipping is a gateway skill with functional utility on the rings, parallel bars, high bar, and floor (the quickest way to get to your feet). Where most athletic communities avoid the kip, we go to great lengths to teach and learn it. The dynamism and athleticism of CrossFit training is often confusing and frequently alarming to would-be athletes whose experience has been limited to pop fitness and its near complete reliance on bodybuilding exercises. An Australian trainer for an America’s Cup sailing team reported back to his team after visiting CrossFit HQ last year that “CrossFit athletes and trainers use poor form. They even use their legs on their military press,” apparently ignorant of the push-press. Kipping is whole-body, athletic, and demands coordination and agility. It is plyometric, requires flexibility of the shoulders, allows for rapid cycle time, and in totality represents an essential, unique, and powerful core to extremity motor recruitment pattern. None of which could be said of the strict pull-up. For any given athlete, every manner of pull-up requires the same amount of mechanical work to perform. The kipping pull-up is faster than the strict pull-up and therefore elicits more power from the athlete. The kipping pull-up makes a contribution to workouts of super-high average power that the other pull-ups cannot. In a pull-up-intensive CrossFit workout such as “Fran” or “Helen,” strict pull-ups would substantially increase the time to completion. We’d be doing the same amount of work in more time. The same amount of work in more time is a reduction in average power. Power is intensity. We’d have reduced the intensity of the workout. We would not expect to reduce the intensity of a workout without blunting the majority of adaptations possibly and desirably derived through the effort. Strict pull-ups would likely reduce the fitness of CrossFitters if they were to supplant our kipping pull-ups. What is so far known about neuroendocrine response suggests to us that the kipping pull-up contributes substantially to a change in hormonal milieu that potently promotes athletic development. It would be hard to make the same claim for the slower, less powerful, strict pull-up. To argue the value of strict pull-ups as a focused exercise that dramatically increases upper-body pulling strength is sound, but much of that need can be addressed with “L” pull-ups (the cleanest pull-up of all), rope climbs, the Bachar ladder, cargo nets, and our rotating thick handled pull-up bar. Wonderful pulling exercises each, and none amenable to kipping. We have not found that communities of non-kippers are capable of performing more strict pull-ups than CrossFitters, and we have found that our athletes’ rankings for pull-ups do not change appreciably testing with different pull-up types. Fourth place kipping seems to be fourth place strict, slow, or wide. Revealingly, seeing non-kippers compete against our athletes has been the easiest way to demonstrate the strengths of the kip. Advocates of the strict pull-up have found the superiority of their method impossible to defend in person. The debate is largely an Internet phenomenon. We teach the kip from the hang by having the athlete push his hips and shoulders forward and then relax, push forward and then relax, until a swing develops. The athlete moves from “arched to hollow” forming a “C” alternating between belly forward, shoulder open (arched), and belly retreating, shoulder closing (hollow). Once the swing is developed, the athlete will find the kip by giving a sharp tug upward at the back of the swing while leaning back slightly, which heaves the athlete toward the bar in a beautiful arc. Kipping pull-ups have the same advantages over strict pull-ups that the jerk has over the shoulder press. Each is a fundamentally more potent stimulus than its less dynamic, less powerful counterpart. Our program’s extensive reliance on the more dynamic, powerful movements holds the seeds of our athletes’ successes." "The Kipping Pull-up" by Greg Glassman CrossFit Journal, April 2005 library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/32_05_Kipping_Pullup.pdf
After watching Chris Heria's video and yours this is a valid point of contention to CrossFit. Strict pullups will always be the best way to start and train mostly with especially the strength aspect. Kipping should not even be thought to beginner CrossFitters until the person can do 10-20 strict pullups. Crossfit boxes should focus more on strict pullups for most members.
Thats my biggest problem and why I stopped crossfit and went back to the gym, they teach only the kipping and progress people only in that aspect, you see women that try to do their first pull up, take months to get to it because they do jumping-pull ups or knees to chest and such, instead of just doing negative pull-ups/use rubber bands
I was really hoping to hear more benefits to kipping and butterfly pulls than that. I already thought they were garbage pull-ups, and now I also understand that they're more likely to cause injury too. I wonder how many cross-fitters smash their chins on the bar and knock themselves out? Why not just learn gymnastics? At least that's a sport with cool techniques.
Thanks for giving your non-biased opinion and information on this exercise. Many people just make fun of it and call it stupid, however just because an exercise looks weird or ridiculous doesn't mean it actually isn't beneficial. After watch this video I am pretty sure I will not be trying the kipping pull up anytime soon
Great content as always, would be really interested to see a video regarding supersets within calisthenics workouts, in regards to how to pair them for specific goals such as strength or muscle building, or whether they should be used at all in a calisthenics workout as they feature so many compound movements. I find the useful as it cuts my workout times in half but would be very interested on your take on it.
I really like how you bring your chest all the way up to the bar when doing your pull-ups. I've always finished my reps by having my chin go over the bar, but I might try it this way next workout.
Exactly it is whiplash! Terrible technique and strain on the shoulders and neck. No tension in the core can cause injury or hernias through the ABS and abdomen and other injuries to the back and shoulders if the core is not tense during the motion
The only reason to do these kind of "pull ups" is when you have perfect technique and want to do as much pull ups as possible. So you don't have reason to do them
Matt Mitchell except there is tension in the core... you move between the hollow and arch positions which require a tight core... probably should know the ins and outs of the movement if your trying to prove how silly it is🤣
Great video and I applaud your professionalism. It's rare to see a video about crossfit that isn't talking all the shit. I'm not a crossfit fan at all but I can't help but wonder why some things are done the way they are and you helped me understand but I still don't like it but I'll be a little less critical moving forward!
I compete in CrossFit competitions, in which I will do kipping pull ups and muscle ups as that’s how you get the best score. But in training I pretty much only do strict pull ups because it is better for gaining strength. Sometimes I will do kipping in workouts so I can practice the technique though.
I was told the kipping/butterfly pull-ups done is CrossFit is not for beguiling strength but a using the upper body to build cardiovascular endurance. It may be look “easier” but one may not complete the required reps in the limited time because the heart and lungs cannot keep it. Different purpose, different approach.
I hated this shit so much, years ago when I was in year 10 I had the choice for extra classes. I chose the fitness class and most of the course was cross fit based. At the time I thought it was ok, only until years later I hated kip pull ups. My lack of core strength doing strict pull ups infuriated me.
I train in a crossfit gym like a year ago and never liked to see or do that kind of pull ups, I felt I'm doing nothing. Yesterday we have to do 100 pull ups and for the first time I got to do that exercise the crossfit way. They want quantity over quality sometimes...
Usually leave these kind of videos on their own but on this instance I'll try and clarify some things on kipping. Crossfit WODs are built on intensity, either with heavier weights or more reps. Kipping pull-ups just mean you can amp up intensity level of the workout. This however does not mean that they are the only pull-ups done in CF. Generally speaking CF class consists of three parts: Warm up, skill/strength and finally WOD. Of hour long class WOD is usually smallest portion (time wise) and only bit where kipping pull-ups are performed, unless skill bit incorporates them. Which leads to the fact that unlike some people think, there is infact proper technique to kipping pull-ups and unless athlete can't do atleast few strict ones they generally do scaled down version of a pull-up. I hope this clears some 'myths' revolving around kipping pull-ups. Yes they are bit more technical than strict ones and perhaps slightly more dangerous if not done correctly, but no good coach lets you do them unless you actually can. If you do them on your own without proper form that's your fault and not kipping pull-ups nor Crossfits.
Ive been doing CF for about 4 years now and i gotta admit they are pretty damn pointless. The only thing they are good for it making you look like a fool. thats why i only do strict pulls in my training. why do something that has been proven so many times to do nothing at all for you.... think about it.
Couldn't you at least do a few strict pullups with speed and intensity? Surely 5 strict pullups during a metcon can be done just as efficiently as 20 fish pullups. 1? 2?
“If you’re a beginner and want to do Kipling pull-ups you should start with strict pull-ups and build up basic strength first.”..... So, Kipping pull-ups dont require basic strength. End of story.
Sure they don't, if you dint mind destroying your shoulders in the process. You need the proper back strength, shoulder stability, and core strength to even attempt a kipping/butterfly pull up with lower risk of injury
@Peter Hofmann Lets be honest with ourselves here, what other reason would you willingly increase risk of injury for less muscle gain? You want to keep doing cross-fit because your numbers make you feel better. Whatever floats your boat i guess...
Okay, so just taking the logical complement of the strict pullup summary, we then have for crossfit pullups: - Increase risk of injury. - Decrease strength. - Lose muscle mass. Sounds great.
Yeah, sounds like typical competition sports where problem is caused by poor rules (both unsafe and ugly looking performance, but the latter is obviously a subjective point) for that sport.
Good review, if I had to add anything, it would be that there is a cardio component to the kipping pullup if you do enough of them. It also helps when trying to do a muscle up.
It is weird that a calisthenics person would ignore the cardio aspect, but kipping pullups are so reviled outside of crossfit that it's probably hard to note anything positive about them.
I'd say 1 advantage is that it's more taxing cardiovascularly working the entire body while the strict mainly works the lat to develop strength, it's like comparing squatting to sprinting, but yeah the butterfly/kip is more dangerous
It makes no sense. Most beginners do pull ups with a little bit of kipping but as they get stronger their form gets more strict. The same goes for muscle ups. Beginners use a lot of momentum to perform muscle ups but with practice their muscle ups get cleaner. Handstand push-ups are almost an advanced calisthenics excercise. It requires a lot of shoulder strength and body stability and I doubt the vast majority of CrossFiters are strong enough for those (handstand push-ups are definitely not the same as wall assisted handstand push-ups). No reason to do kipping pull ups , they don't give strength , muscle size or muscle endurance , conditioning. They only increase your chances of injury and have no carryover whatsoever which means they're not functional at all
