Should we use them?? Absolutely not! Should we learn and teach about tables? Absolutely yes! I think learning tables and why are they necessaries helps people understand how dive physiology and theory works
O/W training teaches the relationship between depth, time and nitrogen loading which is what computers calculate for us. However, as in my Vintage Diving playlist, earl divers were taught how to disassemble and re-assemble their double hose regs, not so today. Diving today is safer and more fun which is what makes our sport grow. Thanks for watching and sharing Martin.
Good to see you Alec. After 2 years no diving I am looking forward to my trip to Bonaire next month with the dive shop! I’m going to dive my butt off!!!😎😛and I’ll be using my dive computer!
Great video always! I was glad I was shown the tables During my training but will never not use a computer. Computers play a big safety factor in modern diving in my opinion
Hey Alec, great diving season for 2021! 32 dives this Summer and still going strong in October! Water temp is still 63 Fahrenheit last weekend at depth (38 feet@) still can use 7MM wetsuit. Thanks for a great year of info! My book was BIg Joe Strowkoski as we said in 1974! PJB
Hi Alec. Maybe I will see you some time at Aquarius. You sure get around- Scuba 2000, Aqua_sub, and now Aquarius. Glad to see you are hanging around. I do think they should continue to train with the tables so students UNDERSTAND about off gassing (every dive is a decompression dive) and surface intervals, and why the first dive of the day should be the deepest. Even with just 1-2 dives a day, the dive computer will allow you to stay underwater longer as it measures your depth constantly, where dive tables you are to use your deepest depth (and the table assumes that is for the whole dive as a result). It is also useful if you PLAN your dive (as you should)- how long you can stay at 90 ft in the planning and what the surface interval should be if you want a 60 ft dive later on for lets say 50 minutes. The dive computer cannot figure that out (at least that I know of).
I agree with your philosophy here. The tables lay out a theory in an easily recognizable fashion. I learned the tables when I first learned to dive but I haven't used them much since I dive with a computer, which is more accurate on a dive by dive basis. However referencing the tables can help someone plan their diving and diving day more accurately with what expectations for surface intervals will be to maximize there time at depth on the day of.
I don't have my dive computer handy but I know dive planning is built into all computers. Just don't remember how it calculates 2nd dive times but they do. Check your dive manual to see how it works.
I know many diver, Kevin included, who keep their older computers as backups do dives are not cancelled early. He had his primary dive computer blow up once. Stay safe and have fun diving on the new computer.
...mmm perhaps it best to use both ! Kinda like looking at a road map to see where you are going and then turning on your Google maps on your phone or car to hear them tell you when to turn ... if your computer poops out or you loose it - you can always use the ole tables .
With over 50 years of diving and seen so many changes, table are now something to tell grand kids about, like rotary dial phones. I never had a dive computer fail and if it did, grab my buddy / wife and end the dive. Simple and safe. A.
even if I use a computer today, I consider that mastering the diving tables is an asset to any diver. As we know, many tragic aircraft accidents happened because the pilots were not mastering the sophisticated piloting aids that were an integral part of their vessel. A very good video as usual.
If a diver understand that a dive computer is a real-time calculation of dive tables, they understand the dept/time/residual nitrogen effects of diving. Take care Pete.
I have been certified since 1989, and of course I had to learn the dive tables, I have been using dive computers since the mid 90's and never looked back, although I believe knowing the the dive tables is very important, it gives you the idea of how important it is to dive your aloud depth & time, some how the computers make it to easy, and less serious. For example, both my sons are certified, and when I questioned them about depth limits & time their answers were "you can dive until the green line turns yellow" well I guess they are sort of wright.?
Ha yes they are John. Years ago I was bored diving using tables then computers came along and make it simple and each generation was better and better. Your sons are right about using it but some background on tables may show them how far scuba has progressed from the stone age of diving, when the were young. Thanks for sharing John and say hi to your sons. They will enjoy the sport for many years.
Hi Alex I really enjoy your videos started diving the 60 60 rule with a j valve I dive mostly in the harbour brail only down max 20 ft can't see the computer leave it on the boat come up now and then to check the tank pressure Have a great day!
I got my open water two years ago and the dive tables are at the back end of the course booklet (its in a modern version booklet, pdf) and we must pass a test doing tables. Just so we understand what it is and why the time and depth limits are there in our dive comps. But yes, you can calculate using those rulers like the early astronauts or you can just punch buttons or even verbally ask questions nowadays.
Modern dive computers made diving fun for me. For decades it was tables which really limited bottom time and fun. Now I can jump in, computer starts automatically, tells me when to go up, safety stop and logs it into a digital log book. That makes diving fun for an old f**t like me.
I have a computer, but primarily dive by tables, computers are nice, and required in various locations and are fairly reliable ,however - on 3 dives this year I dove with people who had two computers ( a backup I suppose) and both had significant differences at the end of the dive, and they werent cheap computers either.
My experience is even lower end computers should have the same depth +/- one foot and time is the same everywhere so there should really be little difference at the end of a dive. If table work for you and your smart about diving, enjoy the freedom.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter being old, it was hard for me to adopt the computer, Ive been happy with mine, although for my local dives, well most not all, I leave the computer behind.
Great video Alec. Computers are definitely the way. I learnt to dive back in 1988 with the tables that was the way. I bought my first computer Aladdin Pro in 1989 which was air only back then. I still use it as a backup alongside my modern all singing and dancing computer. Keep up the great videos Alec. 👌
Thanks for sharing Darryl. If you want to laugh about older divers, watch my Vintage Scuba playlist on this channel where I explain why rocks were needed for us to start a dive. Today is much safer and more fun.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter I'm looking forward to diving with the vintage double hose regulator's I've bought from you. Travel starting to open up a bit now. All the best. Let's go diving. 👌
Hi Alec, I too use a dive computer (it's mandatory to dive with one for all Australian dive charter operators), however dive computer's don't account for a person's age, physique (body fat ration), effort of diving, bouyancy control, dehydration status, water temperature, alcohol consumption in the previous 24 hours, how many times they chummed the water on the way to the dive site - all of which have more in common with recorded decompression illness events than miscalculation of dive tables. I remember a sad event in the late 90's in North Queensland where a 23 year old girl died from DCI after repetitive dives to less than 10 metres. Her "Dive Instructor" caused her death by repeatedly dragging her back to the bottom every time she paniced and surfaced, this was repeated a significant number of times and she was found dead in her bunk on the dive charter boat the following morning. In my opinion, I believe that teaching students how to calculate dive time/depth plans requires a basic "understanding" of applied gas laws and therefore should make them more aware of the risks of depth, time and ascent rates. My rule is simple: I know the depth I am diving to, and I then check my tables to see what my must not exceed time is. During my dive I use the rule of 1/3's for air consumption. I wear my Computer as my backup, not as my primary. And finally, the following link is a fantastic read which raises more questions than answes from Auckland University. www.dhmjournal.com/images/IndividArticles/44March/Haas_dhm.44.1.20-25.pdf This research looks at the trends of DCI Treatment in New Zealand over 17 year period.
The trend is going down so that's good overall. The use of dive computers is increasing and becoming mandatory both for simplicity of training and liability/insurance requirements. Teaching what table represent is a good idea, diver need to know the effects of depth/time/residual nitrogen. To keep divers interested in the sport, only computers can do that with the smartphone generation. Good points and thanks for the information Peter. Safe diving down south my friend.
I'm a +1 on learning how to use the tables, and unfortunately most of my current local diving is square profile. When the PADI wheel was introduced in the 90s I was living in Saudi Arabia and our diving (Red Sea) was multi-level and this proved to be a fantastic piece of kit. Even when I bought my first dive computer (Suunto Companion) I still used the wheel for planning and calculating my dive times. Nowadays I have two Shearwaters, one on each wrist as well as an old Suunto Vyper attached to the strobe arm on my camera rig, which is set as a bottom timer only. However, I know my NDLs for the dives I do with the gases I use in my head probably because of how I learned dive tables way back at the beginning in the 80s.
Glad to hear a diver who know what table represent and trusts dive computers to follow the plan. Two Shearwaters, very nice! I have 2 dive computers, mine and my wife's. Thanks for sharing Gordon and watching.
Great video to start my day with Alec! I'm a new diver, but a technical kind of guy, I want to know why things work the way they do, and the tables help greatly with that. They're also really confusing for people without a math and science mindset! Computers have certainly opened the world of Scuba to many people who wouldn't be able to safely operate on tables alone, however once learned, tables are much faster for dive planning than a computer (or at least my computer). A few weeks ago we did a trash clean up dive, knowing the approximate max depth I was able to determine I needed to grab a rental cylinder in order to hit my NDL. Being a trash dive, you're coming out of the water several times to drop full bags, so swapping cylinders isn't uncommon. And my SAC sucks being a new diver and not in as great of shape as Kevin. I think they need to do better teaching the tables during class. My instructor did a great job, but I see many people who had little if any instruction on them. Maybe it shouldn't be on the test since it's possible to safely dive without ever using them (and probably safer to dive with a computer), if for no other reason than for people to understand what that giant wristwatch is doing, and how their body is reacting. I enjoy your videos Alec, great to watch with a cup of coffee to get going in the morning.
Appreciate the feedback Nathan and that your in fantastic shape, just like Kevin is! Good points but as always, the diver needs to prevent problems before they occur, not react. Knowing you NDL, recognizing that repetitive in/out affects your nitrogen loading. No table could calculate that but a computer can. Safe diving and thanks for the clean up too.
As a PAID DM/AI I had to learn not only h ow to use the tables but also the "Wheel". Now as an SSI OWI, I am not required to teach the tables, but as part of my classroom sessions I also go over them as I believe the students need at least a brief understanding of what the computer is doing, otherwise we are certifying a bunch of robots.
Table, the wheel, the multi-level wheel, EDP and into computers. Taught them all and love my computer the most. Agree that understanding what your computer is doing, displaying tables in real-time, is important to understand how computers actually work. Keep on teaching them well Ed.
The tables are more conservative as they're calculated as the max depth for the entire dive. I like to plan my dives using the tables on air, but using enriched air (and its max depth), while referring to my computer for bottom time, depth, temp, and assent rate. I'm surprised you didn't mention the 'modern' PADI tables 😄
I took the R1 category a couple of years ago by a CMAS agency. it is standard for CMAS to use the tables, we learned to plan dives over it, and when we passed we all bought dive computers like any other diver, SO dive table is in the drawer
I use my tables for planning, but use a computer for tracking actual dives. (I have three tables; one each for standard air, 32% Nitrox, and 36% Nitrox.)
Love your channel Alec , it's the high point of my day when another one of your episodes comes out. I grew up watching Sea Hunt and even though I can't swim I find scuba diving fascinating. Can you tell me the full names of the books in this episode and the date of printing for those books you showed please.
Glad you liked the episode. Sorry but I can't give you the info as they are packed away. Shot this way back in July. If you slow the video down you can get the titles. They are hard to find but I'm a dive horder.
I had to teach an ex Rescue and Recovery diver, to drive using hand controls gas brake, he had a bubble form in his spinal column, he was diving a cold water lake and suffered a frozen regulator, and was forced to surface quickly, he wasn't a young unskilled diver, as a member of military his job was rescue and recovery of crashed airframes, he was a tough old guy, but that one bubble took away the use of his legs, happily her successfully returned to driving a car.
Sad to hear about her accident Haydn. I stress over and over that safe diving is so important from gear, to training to buddy contact. One mistake and there are serious consequences. Take care and thanks for watching.
Nothing wrong with learning the dive tables. I've used them in the past. A dive computer is more accurate, so I use one now. I also know how to drive a manual car. These days they're harder to find (and because my wife can't drive one) we have cars with automatic transmissions.
I think that a dive has to be planned in advance and the danger with the computer is to neglect planning. I prefer to use both and to compare specially because I don't want to make my life depend only in the computer. With computers people tend to become lazy.
Probably but dive computers are life saving equipment designed to be safe with proper information shown. I like your planning but computers also plan next dives with accurate nitrogen loads factored in. They are pretty good devices says this old guy. A
Tech divers use apps to plan super deep and super long deco dives with stages of various gas blends using an app… not tables. Are tech divers lazy? Times have changed, bro.
I don't remember Rene. Someone must have given it to me a loooong time ago. Back in the old days, i needed a big binder for my navy dive tables and used it. Sharp eyes Rene, not like mine.
I wonder though, how many divers actually understand that a computer is just the tables combined with real time tracking of depths to get a more accurate position within the table? It is all still based on probabilities and what is determined to be an acceptable risk.
I hope their open water instructor mentioned that. Think of them as real time tables using exact dept/time measurements. New divers should understand that description. Thanks for watching.
Dive tables have one real advantage: they do not neetd batteries i.e. are useful even your dive computer's battery is flat. Good backup. It is, indeed, worth to know how tables work even if you use dive computet. Also it is worth to know that there are many different versions of tables. There are namely several different algorythms for nitrogen load estimation. On the other hand the computer has a special advantage: it is real time estimation and readable underwater.
The simple process is if your computer fails, diver over, surface safely. Nothing different from a leaking hose, etc. Glad you enjoyed this NN. Take care.
Scuba stores in Russia divide regulators into summer or winter models (or advertise them as "warm water", "cold water" regs). From my understanding, any reg could be used in cold water (by cold I mean below 10C down to 0C). And any reg no matter how sophisticated or pricey it is may start free-flowing if not used properly. I wonder if you have a video on that topic and please correct me if I am wrong in my assumptions above. There is, for example, Oceanic Alpha 10 SPX DIN which fits my budget. Scuba stores advertise it as "summer only" but I don't understand why this reg won't work in the water colder than 10C? Especially considering it is EN250A certified which guarantees safe usage in the water down to 4C. Thank you for the videos, they are amazing.
Well not all you were told is true. Almost all North American regs will safely dive to 10C / 50F. The cold or warm water is marketing and some B.S. mixed in. Below 10C the risk of free flow increased greatly BUT can be prevented if some preparation is done. For more info suggest watching videos S07E02, S09E05, S08E05. These will explain more about cold water diving options. Appreciate your feedback and dive safe.
Go back and watch the videos that Alec suggested on this subject. I have recently had some questions on this also and have discovered that depending on the testing completed to achieve the EN250A rating there is sometimes a caveat that the reg may be physically marked EN250A>10C because it passes all the required air flow and ease of breathing tests but either was not tested at colder temps or does not meet the requirements of the colder testing.
we all use computers but how many of us really understand what that dive computer does? Even more, how many of us are able to say I do not like that specific dive computer because it does not do the calculations right.. Or I like that dive computer because from my simulations and comparing to the dive tables it seems to do a very good job of minimizing the risks... That should be tought in a dive course. What do you think about the statement that every dive can and should be considered a technical dive, some of them with lesser risks involved while others with greater risks and very complex...
The majority of divers are recreational dives so for them, fun and safe are their only requirements. O/W training should teach the relationship between depth, time and nitrogen loading which is what computers do for us. Thanks for the feedback and for watching my friend.
i think everyone should learn how to use the dive tables, but... they assume a square dive profile, which in my experience is rare. Computers in my opinion are necessary.
I got a wrist watch dive computer... I cann't figure the damn thing out!!!!!!! There seems to be a huge lack of helpful internet training aids on it. Dive charts are easy... Lol. I got a NAUI and DIT certs and use a PADI Plastic card with the dive tables printed on them that came in a student kit. I use it mostly for planning and pretty much most of my dives are shallow these days. It seems around 25' is where I'm finding shells and clear water with plenty of light, and lots of places to dive, when I'm in Florida. Of course I spent a few years diving for golf balls and working on shrimp boats in Hilton head and surrounding areas where there was a lot of snakes, alligators, snapping turtles, sharks, and the most dangerous things a diver could face... Poor golfers!!! So I pretty much hit the bottom and was covered with a cloud of soot making everything pitch black. You never see the critters, and you really don't know how deep you are. When you get to the surface, my depth gauge had a red needle that showed your depth. Mostly it was 25' . I sure like the clear Florida sandy bottom water I five in these better, but the gator infested half courses paid better. Lol
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter lol gators don't bother divers too much. Golfers on the other hand!!!!!. Most of the time the alligators just get in the exhaust bubbles and sort of float over head. I used try and rub their belly, and every once in a while, I could get where I could move them around gently .. most of the time as soon as I touch them they took off like a bat out of ...... Well, really fast. Lol.
Well i think each of these fit that category SC. Each video was based on 60 years of diving and decades in the scuba business. Maybe the one video would be called "Think!".
I trust the tables, not a mechanical device that can malfunction. If you are making a decompression dive, add time to your stops, to compensate for the fact that the tables are not 100% for every person, in every case.
When dive computers first came out, remember the EDGE? I waited until they became reliable which was the late 1990's. Since then, my tables are all in the closet as computers let me have fun diving and not doing math stops. If your happy and safe with tables, good for you but be safe my friend.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter When I was a teenager, (1960s), we dove a reef at 80ft, off of West End, Grand Bahama. We always used the US Navy dive tables, 80ft/40 minutes no D. Occasionally we pushed it to 80ft/50minutes 1 deco stop 10 minutes at 10 ft, which we usually extended to 12 minutes, as the nearest decompression chamber at that time was in Florida. I carried a copy of the US Navy tables, heavily laminated, clipped to my harness. Never got bent. I have however been bent twice, using commercial diving helmet gear, on HeO2 dives. In that case we were using proprietary company tables. The decompression was partially in the water, and the remainder in the chamber on O2.
Which do you think happens more often? Someone makes a mistake using the tables, or the "mechanical device" malfunctions? Seriously. Also, the dive computers aren't mechanical. Also, which happens more often? Someone uses tables but doesn't exactly match their expected dive (e.g., go deeper), therefor making the tables kinda' useless? vs. the dive computer (which is tracking your depth/time/everything every few seconds) being wrong. Think about it the other way -- if we all had computers for 30 years, and now they said "OK, we're switching over to these tables". You'd ask "how do the tables know our depth profile throughout the dive?" "Oh, they don't. This is just a really rough estimate." You think anyone would switch?
@@rjvaughn Cite me your statistics on what happens more. If you have a depth gauge and watch, and your paying as much attention to them as you pay your gauges on your dive computer, you should have no problems. How many times have divers run out of air because they are not paying attention to their spg? I have scuba dived since 15, I’m 75 now. Neither me or my buddies have been bent, recreationally diving, using US Navy tables. That includes decompression dives. In my nine years commercial diving, only a handful of bends cases resulted from dives, most of them using company HeO2 tables.
They are based on the best knowledge available and always being improved. These computers are rec only and not intended for deco diving but will help get you out of a deco situation.
