Are Heat Projectors Good for Reptiles? 

don't the halogens get way too hot? With dimmers I either had them go so low the light wasn't great or they got just way too hot (in 4x2x2 cages I was getting ambient temps north of 100 with 50 watts).

Infra red A and B are present in sunlight but then its only infrared C at night, which is warm air or warm objects. There is no infrared B at night hence why i say its unnatural, night time heating from a CHE or RHP would be more natural since its infrared C. Imagine a snake slithers past a rock thats 3ft taller than itself, youd have a warm object reradiating irc above them at night, or if they are in a rock stack or crevice etc. A DHP alongside a halogen during the day only moves it further away from natural. A CHE or RHP on during the day to support a halogen because they are just controlling the air temperature, which is IRC.

Your research is wrong. IRC does exist in nature - and does warm up our animals. Take a bearded dragon for example, it may not bask if ambients are above X degrees. That ambient is IRC and convection-heated air. A halogen produces in the region of 40-45% IRB. It produces more than sunlight already. Simple understanding of Black Body Radiation tells us that a DHP can't provide something that a halogen doesn't already provide - because it's spectral output (Planckian curve) plot would be INSIDE that of a halogen. There is nothing there that isn't already there in a halogen. So providing a Heat Projector in this instance would simply sway the balance and provide an even larger amount of unnatural wavelengths to an animal. This is what Liam means when he essentially says that they are redundant.

@@paulwhite9242 I use the Flukers dimmer domes and have had great success. But I am very hands on with my enclosures and check them throughout the day. I adjust as needed but I am able to vary the temperatures quite well. That being said, all of my enclosures are screen tops and I use external light and heat.

@@ReptilesandResearch Liam, I know there is no infrared B at night. That was not my point. In the winter time, on a cold day when you stand in the sun you feel warmth and it warms your body. That is due to infrared A and B penetrating through you. The air temperature is damn cold for obvious reasons but you still feel very warm in the sun. Obviously winter is very different from summer time due to the strength of the sun and the position of the earth. But, rocks get warm in the winter and produce heat in the area in form of infrared C...but in such small amounts that the air temperature is not warmed by them as it is in the summer months. So, that being said, how do you not get warm air using DHP's with halogens when they warm up the substrate, the decor etc. etc.? That is what produces the infrared C in the enclosure which contributes to your ambient air temperature. Believe me, I get the hypothesis about DHP's at night and definitely are less natural for sure. I get that. But I surely don't understand your reasoning or logic for the daytime example when you even admitted above that infrared C is only present at night. All 3 are present during the day....and the only reason all 3 are present during the day is that it is the infrared A and B that is producing it. Question though: I was under the impression that halogens produce a lot less infrared B than does a DHP. Is this the case? Also, the logic behind DHP's is that they spread out a wider band of energy than a halogen an provide. So wouldn't that be beneficial in terms of increasing the basking area so that more of it is usable than just a halogen?

Id use a t5 uvb tube, a source of visible light say a led bar or spot lamp, then a regular incandescent heat bulb. If you look in the description theres a amazon list with all our recommended bulbs

What’s it in wm2? For the halogen alone?

@@ReptilesandResearch Sorry, but I don’t understand your questions. Can you please elaborate? Thanks.

How many watts per meter squared does your power meter read the halogen at?

@@ReptilesandResearch No idea. I only measure the temperature of the sensor below the light. Once I am able to get a temperature of 90-92 degrees F, I forget about it. I use a laser thermometer to gauge the basking temperature. The halogen light goes on and off periodically as it reaches the set temperature.

That's a valid experience. I saw it too with my BP. He never uses the halogen (I have a motion camera, so I know). You might want to check your temperature actually inside your warm hide though. I had a thick piece of slate on top of the hide underneath the DHP/halogen. The temperature in the hide didn't get into the high 80s. The BP "basked" quite a bit. Once I swapped out the slate for a thinner piece the hide temperature got hotter. My perception is that he thermoregulates inside the hide now more frequently than on it. He does still hang our there occasionally though. After all, the warm tingle of a DHP is rather nice!

100% will do!

The whole point is that is the wavelngths of irb are being absorbed by the fat and water in the skin, then the animal has to sit there for much longer to get its core body temperature up. There are many factors such as belly heat at the same time. A leopard gecko has a smaller mass and well as a lower optimal core body temperature it has to reach compared to say, a bearded dragon or uromastyx, these guys would have to sit there for far longer and dehydrating in the process, these are also a species that many dont provide water too. so that compounds the issue further. My concern is how much a leopard geckos thin skin gets heated in ratio to their core. it is very variable though, how cool the air is, how cool the night before was, surface temps etc all contribute to how long a leopard gecko might need to bask for. Im glad you are no longer have shedding issues

@@ReptilesandResearch I question whether a LG had enough fatty tissues under their skin for it to matter in the long run. Seeing as how you should always provide the animal with water, I doubt how much it would affect the creature as small as a LG. Correct me if I am wrong. But I would be more worried about large lizards with larger masses that have more fatty tissues, they would have to sit longer for their body to heat up, rather than the small gecko who also heats up easily from the rocks/soil it can sit on?

Glad it was of use then

id use ceramics at night when needed, or a rhp

What's an rhp?

Radiant Heat Panels (RHP's) @@Midwest_Lizard_Mom

@Midwest_Lizard_Mom radiant heat panel, basically a mini radiator, puts out IRC like a ceramic or heat mat

@@Juicecarton97 - oh! Ok. Thanks!

Gold bar is perfect for boelens!

The halogen itself is enough, if you can’t get a minimum air temperature of 20C/68F you COULD use the dhp to try and warm the air, although I’d rather a ceramic, if you get those air temperatures from the environment being warmed by the halogen then that’s all you need

@@ReptilesandResearch thank you, I really appreciate the advice! I think for now I’ll keep the DHP as my nighttime heat source so I guess it wasn’t a total waste

Just to be very clear, for a Ball Python, we recommend to use the DHP as a secondary heat source where the halogen is the basking and the DHP is there to assist the ambient temps at night.

@@CustomReptileHabitats yes! I meant to comment that I actually found that post that I mentioned and wanted to take back what I said because I guess I didn’t fully understand it the first time around. Never thought my comment would get your attention but I do apologize for misquoting what you said. I feel better about my ball python’s setup now and I won’t be going back to heat mats so thank you for raising that awareness! Now all that’s left is to upgrade my sweet girl to a larger enclosure

@@CustomReptileHabitats I’m a customer of yours and purchased the Complete Ball Python kit and am using the 80w DHP, the 75w halogen, and the Shadedweller Max for my Ball Python. The snake seems to love basking under the DHP and ignores the halogen, even though the two areas are the same temperature (90-92F). My comments started a huge discussion elsewhere in the comments but I must say that I love the DHP and am considering using it as the primary source and the Shadedweller as secondary. Since I got the enclosure, my BP is more active, has gone back on his regular feeding schedule, and even looks better. You have a great product!

it depends what they upgraded from,

(Not R&R) I use a DHP for nightheating aswell for my ball python, as it can also get quite cold at times here (especially winter). I used to use a CHE, however back then it seemd to dry the out the air a lot. Should probably measure it again though as the way I measured back then wasn't as good as I know now lol. I'm no expert, but think DHP's are fine for nightheating or to increase ambient temperatures. If this isn't the case I'll gladly change it, but so far I haven't found one myself.

I’d just use a che or rhp at night and spray the enclosure at night before I go to bed to give humidity a spike.

No, they were originally marketed as a a halogen without the light until they realised it didn’t do what they thought it was.

All that there is in nature is infrared C at night, this is why I use this at night. I’m not saying things are going to instantaneously combust if you give a heat projector at night. I’m saying imagine how unnatural it would be to do outside at night and feel tingling on your skin like sunlight. You’d be confused 😕

Right, but at night the only infrared C comes from the earth, rocks, trees and things that have been heated up all day from infrared B. Infrared C coming from above is every bit as un sun like as is infrared B (at night). The sun is the sun and we'll never replicate it completely as is in nature. I would have to guess then that if you want to be closer to how things are in nature, a UTH would be the way to go for nighttime heating because it is more natural and comes from below. It is interesting for sure, I've often thought the same thing. No heat source at night other than warmed up rocks and logs would be best. But infrared C, is useless energy, and as soon as you turn off a CHE or RHP..... nothing.... nothing in the enclosure is warm. But for daytime, my halogens and DHP combo seems to have all my snakes thriving. They love the DHP.

Its not a study, we are looking at the spectra, its no certain brand just carbon filament lamps, its all based on black body. Im not jumping to conclusions that is what they emit. Here is the website: www.licht-im-terrarium.de/start

Thank you! I wonder what the impacts are of infrared levels and how bad it is not to be "totally naturalistic". Surely it's better to be warm than not, and surely supplementing hot halogen with dhp is helpful in winter months? And surely UVB in addition is more naturalistic, too? My current setup is to use them for sunrise and sunset hours, and go off an hour after sunset, basically as supplementary radiant heat. I'll say this: Halogen or mercury vapor may be the way to go, and I wouldn't discourage DHP use if it's replacing just a heat mat for new keepers. Really informative video. Thinking a lot about my setup.

They cook the animal if that’s the sole heat source, I’ve experienced this first hand with lots of animals. Have you seen the video I made about the naturalistic fallacy? There’s a difference between a twig vs a bamboo pole for a gecko and giving them these lamps. Lots of species might find it strange to feel radiation upon them at night when it’s not what their biology evolved for. It’s the same with red heat bulbs during the day. Is there any studies on having these bulbs during the day? No, we just collectively recognise that it’s unnatural to just see red everywhere. It’s the same logical reasoning. It’s just easier to accept because you can see it vs wavelengths we don’t see.

@@ReptilesandResearch I haven't seen that video. And I'm not disputing whether or not those things are different. I'm disputing that this graph you showed can inform the conclusion it seems like you reached. Just because biology evolved for certain conditions doesn't mean that the absence of them is necessarily harmful. We evolved without exogenous insulin and yet that can be life-saving for some. It may be the case that behavior in the wild is because that's all that's available and that they are happier with different conditions in captivity. The case for harm has to be actually be made without an appeal to nature. Just because you can reason fallaciously to a conclusion doesn't make it logical. I'm also not saying that you are wrong, I'm saying the argument you used for your case logically can't lead to the conclusion you make. There may in fact be a different logically valid and sound argument that supports your conclusion. To be clear I also don't use these lights. I am comfortable with approximating nature insofar as it is seems to be necessary and adjusting our approach when there is evidence to support a change. I'm not comfortable guilting people for failing to replicate the sun when there isn't an actual empirical case that it is causing harm. I'm not even entirely sure what you mean that it "cooks" the animal. What did you see that led you to that conclusion, and how did you know it was what you thought it was?

@@ReptilesandResearch This is where you are running into trouble with your conclusions Liam. You quite simply contradict yourself. Keeping reptiles in captivity is not natural, period. "There’s a difference between a twig vs a bamboo pole for a gecko and giving them these lamps." This statement right here is not necessarily true. Making the statement of replicating the sun (which cannot be done) is every bit of the naturalistic fallacy. Just as a twig cannot replicate bamboo because it it not bamboo, lamps cannot nor ever will mimic the sun because they are not the sun. "Lots of species might find it strange to feel radiation upon them at night when it’s not what their biology evolved for." Again, you say that DHP's are not natural during the night but that CHE's or RHP's are because they emit infrared C. Well that's still radiation. In fact, that's just radiation that heats the air and nothing else. Infrared C does not heat up rocks, soil etc. etc. On the contrary, DHP's emitting infrared B may "replicate" nature more so (of course not entirely) as they don't heat up the air. Instead infrared B produced from a DHP warms up the soils, the decor etc. etc. which in turn will slightly warm the air in the enclosure until the energy disperses throughout the nighttime hours. As in nature, once that sun goes down things cool off drastically. At night time what happens to the air temperature? It drops significantly and at times is even cold. That's why you see snakes basking on the roads. Because the roads are warm from infrared A and B from a day of sun. Yes, they are releasing radiation in the form of infrared C at that point, however, that is quickly cooled off as it escapes into the air. If reptiles were able to thermal regulate by air temperatures, they would not be observed basking on roadways, rocks, logs etc. etc. especially at night. When we typically feel warmth on a nice summer's night hike, it is generally being released from the ground and other objects. In the summer months I don't need to heat my enclosures at night thankfully. But due to the success I've had with my animals, I am convinced that there are some beneficial elements utilizing DHP's to a capacity based solely on the behaviors that I observe. "They cook the animal if that’s the sole heat source, I’ve experienced this first hand with lots of animals." I'm sorry that has happened to you. I've been keeping reptiles for almost 50 years now and have never had to experience this thankfully. Then again, I never use an internal heat source in my vivariums. In closing, where I completely agree with you, is that there needs to be more education regarding the use of any technology, and businesses claiming and even telling customers that all they need is a deep heat projector as their sole source of heat is clearly wrong and should change. I would argue the same, however, if said pet stores were telling customers that a ceramic heat emitter or a radiant heat panel is the only heat source they need. I'm sure there are probably some keepers out there.....who do just that.

CHE or RHP or AHS that emit irc

@@ReptilesandResearch That works. CHEs are a lot cheaper anyway. Thanks.

Let me know how they get on, don’t be surprised if they do take a little while to adjust to change first though

@@ReptilesandResearch they had a regular light initially, then I switched. So we'll see how this goes!

When swapping for a halogen, be VERY careful of power density. The arcadia halogens are very strong for example, and probably wouldn't be suitable for most Fat-Tail setups.

@@tomaskas sorry, I meant a regular basking lamp, but thanks for the info!

id use CHE

@@ReptilesandResearch so a Ceramic is different from these heating panels?

i mean the snakes not going to detonate just cos of a dhp at night, certainly a unnatural sensation to experience at night tho

@ReptilesandResearch no and I thank you for this video as I'm sure others in hobby will because those that have adopted these bulbs done so with the animals welfare in mind because of bad advertising. This shows we need to call out bad advertising and hold companies accountable for the misinformation

an incandescent halogen like the zoo med basking spot or the exo terra intense, both are linked in amazon links in the description

@@ReptilesandResearch Legend! Thank you I'll get one of them tomorrow

no its a ceramic heat emitter

Lol. I’d never heard of a heat projector before.

@@paperdoll1982 It's just carbon filament lamp. "Deep heat projector" is a product name invented by the brand Arcadia for their carbon filament lamp.

The “basic physics” you refer to refers to Planckian curves and Black Body Radiation. And it only needs a minuscule amount of light for humans to pick up on it - less than a fraction of a %. Even if we give the absolute “best case scenario” to a heat projector and say it’s burning at 1200k, you’re still talking less than 5% IRA. Of that, the vast majority is output in a region around 1400nm, a part not found in nature (H2O attenuation).

​@tomaskas Yes, that's the basic physics I was referring to! Thanks for taking the time to reply.

​@tomaskas It may just be me, but I have trouble contextualising a number like 5% alone. What is the percentage of biological useful IRA from a typical tungsten filament lamp and best case for a DHP. Is a 100w DHP equivalent to a 3w halogen, for example? Sorry for being difficult :) Thanks!

@@gavpol3178 that’s a good question. And one I hadn’t even considered. It is tempting to say that a 100W Heat Projector is as good as a halogen in the bin. But the truth is that they’re just not comparable. A heat projector is much more akin to a ceramic heater than it is to a halogen.

It’s incandescent halogen

Isn't it one of those patio heaters?

@@Gudbjarten essentially

its the reptile systems gold bar

Makes sense 😁

thanks for watching :)

Glad you enjoyed it