Are Motorcycles the Cheapest Way To Get Around? | HSLS S5E9 

I've been watching Itchy Boots exploring her way north from South America. I've seen her in hundreds of cities, towns and villages along the way. For the most part, the people she encounters are way below the average American financial standing. In all of those places, motorcycles outnumber cars overwhelmingly. It's not because they're cooler or more fun. It's because they provide transportation for people who have dirt floors in their kitchens. This is not even a discussion, let alone a debate.

It may not always be the cheapest way, but more definitely the most fun! 🤩

In countries like in Europe and Asia, being able to avoid the traffic (since were allowed to filter out) saves massive amounts of fuel and time. Not really a factor in the USA but here in Italy it costs me so much less to commute with my motorcycle. And i dont have to find designated parking spots or pay for them.

bought a new Grom in '15. my commute was 5 miles and I did that for 3 years. put 10,000 miles on it. the cost of liability-only insurance negated the fuel savings. but, it definitely improved my quality of life. Also, no repair costs; just maintenance which was oil, a k&n air filter, three tires, and a o-ring chain. if you don't mind riding on roads with a max speed limit of 50 mph, the Grom is highly recommended.

The real issue with the Norton exec is that fact that he could even access pension funds in the first place. These funds should have been held in trust by a 3rd part, inaccessible by the slimeball execs.

I deliver food on a 125cc moped with a mounted box, 100mpg and basically no maintenance... works for me!

My friend and I rode the Arkansas portion of the Transamerican Trail over this past Memorial Day weekend on a 1979 Honda Trail 90 and a 1981 Honda Trail 110 after we were inspired by watching Zack and Ari riding theirs through Alaska. 2.5 days and 500 miles later, our butts will never forgive us. At any rate, we were getting at least 80 mpg and that was even with all the elevation change that the Ozark mountains were throwing at us. With the newer CT125s getting over 100 mpg - while keeping maintenance easy to do yourself - I believe they are the ideal do-most-everything-while-remaining-economical bike. As long as you can find one...without an insane dealer markup...

A scooter is cheaper for me by a large amount for the following reasons. I can't afford a car good enough to be reliable, and I live in an apartment complex so I am not allowed to work on a car if it broke. So if I had a car I would be opting into paying a shop to fix a car that will probably have a lot of problems. With the scooter parts cost in the LOW triple digets even for major parts, and I can wheel my scooter into my apartment after management leaves for the day and do the work myself easily. Add to this cheaper fuel costs, cheaper insurance by a lot ($10 a month for full comprehensive coverage) and cheaper upfront cost. A scooter has cost me a fraction of what a crapy unreliable car would.

I think the most important thing is the bike you choose. I have a japanese starter 600 and its very frugal, i must have spent on maintenance something like 650€ in two years, plus 1200€ of insurance for three years (for an economic car here would be 100€ per year more). It sips on fuel (depends on how you ride it but I commute on it and even if I wanted to there’s too much traffic to do anything). And there’s gear and mods to the bike (i just added luggage and a chain/disc lock) but that is a one time cost (or anyways its not every year)

I've wanted a motorcycle since I was a kid. Growing up my dad had his XS650 in the garage, later he trades in for a CB600, and that's the first motorcycle I ever got to go for a ride on. One of my fondest memories was riding on the back of that CB600 as we went around a curve and my dad leaned it down. It scared the shit out of me, and excited me more than anything other than staring up at the stars ever did. Later when his cousin killed himself on the shiny new FZR600 my dad sold his FZ and bought a Shadow. I knew as a kid that I was going to be a motorcycle guy. Except, I never did. Every time the idea came up in my head, I made the "sensible" choice to be "practical". Now, I'm facing my 46th birthday coming up in a few months. I've never even had an M license. I never even bothered to try. And after several years of not even driving a car, the time has come to start looking at getting back on the road, and I've decided that finally, after 4 decades of dreaming about riding, I'm finally going to make the leap and become a motorcycle guy, damn the practicality or sensibility! Screw the danger, and who cares about stuff like rain. I'm going to just do it because I'm tired of looking back at a life of safe, sensible, practical decisions fueled by "one day when I can afford to have two vehicles". Will I own a car as well? Sure, after I get my bike, when it starts getting below freezing here, knowing that we frequently have lots of ice and get significantly below freezing here, I will probably want to make that 45 minute trip at 70mph to DnD night without risking frostbite. I might also want to carry something larger than a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread occasionally. But damnit.... I'm going to be a rider! So I think you guys really hit the nail on the head when you said "is it what you WANT, will it make you HAPPY?" because doing something because it makes the most financial sense is only fun and exciting if you're an accountant, or trying to save your way to being a millionaire. I've got a friend whose parents are multimillionaires now that they are getting close to retirement, except they got that way by never doing anything fun or interesting, and now that they are into their late 50's early 60s, they don't even remember how to enjoy life... Nobody ever says on their deathbed "man, I really wish I hadn't had so much fun and saved a few hundred more dollars", Even the people who probably SHOULD have worked on saving more money and not wasting it on having fun.

Interesting discussion. If you stuck to comparing apples with apples (at least as much is possible with bikes and cars) A cheap slow bike is way, way cheaper than a cheap slow car in every way. Even moving up to mid price and high price the difference in upfront cost almost certainly would negate any extra consumption costs like tyres etc. With that in mind expensive tyres are a choice, usually a good choice but you could do it on the cheap. With fuel economy even the most efficient petrol or diesel car is not getting the fuel economy we can get relatively easily on a bike if they try to keep up with us. I did an experiment years ago on a daytona 955 (my only transport at the time and hardly a bike with fuel efficiency as a priority) where I commuted for a couple of tankfuls and stuck to the speed limit. I also only accelerated at the same rate as the other traffic. I got 65mpg British. Riding normally I would get a little over 50mpg and riding quickly on the road I would get 40 to 45. On my current ktm 390 adv. I get 68mpg without trying and the worst I have ever gotten was 52mpg going 85 mph into the wind. Petrol/diesel cars can't match that in the real world and only become efficient when they carry more people and or stuff. In a temporate climate, if you have stuff and people to move a bike is an expensive toy in addition to a car. If you don't have stuff and people to move a car is a ludicrously expensive luxury compared to just running a bike. It would be an interesting video to see you set maybe 2 or 3 budgets for going out and getting 2nd hand bikes and cars and running them for a while on commute. You could look at how much more or less crappy a sub 2000 dollar bike bike/car is, can you even get a decent car for under 5000. What price would you have to pay to get a decent mid range bike vs mid range car of a similar age etc... Cheers for the content. Paul

Also an xmax 300 will go 85mph on the highways while getting 80+mpg in town. If you look a little slower, a pcx160 will get well over 100mpg. Real motorcycles might be more of a question for gas mileage, but scooters destroy normal cars for fuel efficiency.

I live in Brasilia, Brazil. It's almost never too hot or too cold here (tropical lattitude, however we are at 3500 feet above sea level). It rains most afternoons during the rainy season (october thru april) then it's blue skies for the remaining 6 months out of the year. I am 47 years old and had always owned a car or two since age 18. Before that, I had spent my childhood and teenage years on motorcycles. As the years went by, traffic congestion started becoming a thing here. At around 2012 my wife decided she wanted to try riding a scooter, so I gave her a 125cc Suzuki Burgman scooter to play with. My wife only rode it on weekends, so it sat unused during the week. I figured I might as well use it during the week, during the dry season, to get around the traffic problem. Lane filtering AND lane splitting are legal and common in Brazil. After using the scooter for awhile, I discovered how much better it was at urban transportation, than my car. Scooters can carry lots of stuff, not just in their trunks, but also on the flat floor (shopping bag) and inside a top case. When the rainy season came, I briefly went back to using my car. However, I immediately noticed how much worse the traffic was when it rained. So I purchased some high-quality Givi rain gear and went back on the scooter, even during the rainy season. Long story short, my wife and I today own 2 scooters and a motorcycle, but only one car. We get about 92 miles to the gallon on regular gas out of both scooters. Tires are inexpensive and last a reasonable time. Service labor and parts are much cheaper than for our car. We don't need insurance on the scooters because they are so cheap (and are not sought-after by thieves). We don't ride fast, so regular jackets and pants suffice: no need to purchase dedicated riding gear (except for a high-quality rain suit and light-weight riding gloves). When all is said and done, the scooters are fantastic urban transportation tools while being a fraction of the cost of my previous cars. Best regards from Brasilia, Brazil.

Another provocative, informative episode! An additional point I'll offer: when comparing two-wheeled to four-wheeled long distance commuting, at least in some states.... For everyday city commuting, splitting lanes (lane sharing) greatly contributes to fuel efficiency and time saved and therefore dollars and personal pleasure! I commuted on my motorcycle during my 50-year working life in southern California and definitely benefited financially for it. Also, a commuting motorcyclist's "carbon footprint" over a career span is much lower, not to mention the boring bumper-to-bumper grind! Thank you HSLS!

Here in western NC, in my 40s, I daily an XT250 or an R3. Full cover insurance for BOTH costs= $42 a month. The 2WD Frontier sits around til I need the extra carrying capacity, but the bikes get used the most, especially for commuting. Smaller displacement machines rule in the "value" department.

Insurance was the main reason I didn’t get a Ducati Panigale 899. Full coverage would have cost me $8k per year in 2016 when I was in my mid twenties and NO prior accidents, period. Insurance was basically saying that in my demographic, with that bike, I was likely to total the bike in less than 2 years.

The Most Popular Motorcycle in the World is still the Honda Cub 330 Million of them sold

My motorcycle journey began as a result of the far more accessible costs compared to a car. 100k miles later I've often questioned overall running costs compared to a car, but when I consider that my bike turns commuting time into leisure time, and congestion into time at home with family, I'm convinced the bike is the superior, even if not cheaper, option.

Any used car will need to have something fixed (unless you can ignore the issue). Auto repair shops are very expensive, and later model cars are hard to work on for us regular folks.

Spurgeon, what the fuck insurance company were you using??? I pay less than $600/year for full coverage on my GSA1250!!!

Just picked up a 2022 Honda monkey for errands 100+mpg, 1l oil change, only two valves to adjust and they are really easy to access. Not even close. You spend less to buy, maintain, gas, insurance (like 1/4). Only issue is for most the bike is second to the car. Very few are buying a motorcycle as their only transportation. places that are not Southern California or Texas have snow and ice for part of the year and occasionally need to carry things. Even Zac has a wife who I'm sure has a vehicle he can access for carrying stuff. As to insurance it will vary a good deal but it's really based on value. 16 year old 200k mile van I have is $300/yr. 2017 R9T is $200. 2014 base Ford Focus $500 and 2021 Supra $850. The average cost of a vehicle as of December 2021 is $47,000. Average motorcycle cost is just under $12,000.

I think the direct comparison of praticality and parity of fun is a BRZ/Toyota 86 verses a MT07. I can't do all the math but: Base BRZ $28K. MT07 $7600. Set of tires for the BRZ you would want to own mounted and balanced $1000 and will last about 40K miles. Not sure on the MT07 but betting 6K miles a rear and 10K miles per front so lets call it $1500 in tires for the same miles. In the same 40K miles the BRZ will burn through about $8200 in fuel at my local prices while the MT07 $3700 in fuel. Maintenance over 40K will be similar on both except that the MT07 will likely need a chain and sprocket set at around $200 if you DIY. So oddly, a motorcycle CAN make sense over a fun and inpractical car even up to the 100K mile mark. I intentionally ignored insurance but for me the MT07 is half the cost per year when new for full coverage.

They should make this a CTXP episode. Two teams, one buys a car the other buys a motorcycle. With the same amount of money each team tries to make the best road trip possible. Then compare the two experiences.

I live in a world far removed from California in another Ontario, in another CA, I can only ride 8 months of the year, a small cheap car wins easily, but don't take away my bike it is more than a luxury, it is my sanity.

I once swam in the Colorado River just before it emptied into Lake Mead. Those waters were ALMOST as muddy as this discussion can get... Still, I was entertained.

My 99 4runner for 4500 took a shit on me, spent 1200 on a new engine, needs 2500 in repairs, and doesn't pass smog My Yamaha Fz6r for 4200 has been the most reliable thing in my life

More Spencer in front of the camera. And personally I prefer thrifty, as opposed to tight or miserly or god forbid, cheap.

I live in Scotland and my first motorbike was bought because I had a commute along congested roads (where I could lane split) and my office had very limited parking, where I could park without any issues because I'm on a bike. In the UK everyone starts on a 125cc bike, which I took all over the country and the mileage was much better than my small city car gets now. So far, the car has cost me more in maintenance than the bike, the car was more expensive to buy but the bike is more expensive to insure. Overall, the bike hits my wallet way less than the car, saves me time and a lot of stress from traffic. I am an outdoorsy sort of person, so I have good gear for any weather and ride year round without feeling less comfortable than in a car. The joy of riding a bike is way more than driving a car even in town! On the other hand, when I had just the motorbike, any time I needed to buy something bulky for the house, I would have to hire a car or pay extra for delivery. I would have a car share account because I need to take my mountainbike to the trails. This is an indirect cost of having only a bike, which is linked to my hobbies, but it's a cost nevertheless.

As someone who bought the nc750x because I had the goal of saving money on gas and be able to take advantage of motorcycle being able to navigate heavy urban traffic, this was a very interesting conversation. enjoyed listening to the various perspectives!

Good Convo. Insurance and operation will vary greatly for city dwellers vs rural folks. I heard your insane quotes. I have full coverage on everything. 3 cages cost me $1200/yr and 4 motorcycles are $600/yr. I think you have to narrow the scope of Convo to actual usage and location. Basic commuting is way cheaper on a bike. I've owned many small cc and last year bought an xmax and ridden conservatively hit 91mpg on a 38 mile round trip commute 60/40 highway and in town avg speed being about 35. Given that most people commute alone if a majority of people ride everything from fuel to parts to prices and maintenance would decrease in time.

Regarding the tires comment made about the GPR300 versus the Road 6 (Road 5 in my case) I did exactly that swap on my CB300R after going through two rears and a front every year for the last 3 years. These Road 5s have the potential to last 3x as long and that's a lot of money saved for me.

And the winner is: the 125 cc two-stroke scooter. No valves, no issues. Overall an interesting discussion, but a bit wild regarding what was compared. I think you should have introduces some different levels like 10k, 20k and 40k miles per year, so that the oil change can be put into perspective. Cars typcially need more oil per change, so per year that easily can be the same. And it is much more accessible on bikes, so easier to do yourself. Also, no idea how you are riding, but my duke 690 averages at 3.8L/100km, which is 62 miles per US Galon. Also, considering fuel efficient bikes, smaller ones like 250-400 cc will bring you further, which defies any affordable car (upfront cost of a tesla, yeah...). I will happily keep that bike, though maintainance is not the cheapest, but it is a hobby. Going to work on the bicycle saves enough money for that joy.

Fun discussion. I'm definatly enjoying changing to riding day to day. I get similar distance tank to tank as my car which runs on Higher Octane. My route is quicker & shorter on the bike due to my exit being one way for cars. For insurance I'm only on CTP for a cheaper bike (CB300F) I'm not worried about whereas my car is fully covered. You are much less likely to do damage to other stuff in a bike also. Parking for me is free also for a motorbike around the city.

I live in PNW and ride my scooter year round, get 80+mpg and have zero regrets. Sure it's like 80% as much fun as a motorcycle but it's like 400% more practical.

Good banter! As pointed out, the choice is dependent on many variables. Living in the Northeast, I would have to choose a nicely depreciated econobox…. Or work from the room next to my garage and choose a motorcycle for weekend wheelies (or some lunch hour hooliganism)!😂

It has been around two years ago that this was published. My aunt bought a Nissan Rogue in October 2023. It gets around 30 to 35mpg average. Her insurance runs way higher with the full coverage insurance. The tire cost will run to where you could put several sets of tires on a motorcycle. She was in the market for a Honda Civic hybrid, the one she looked at was used, the batteries effed up on the test drive. The cost of replacing the batteries was so high the dealer sent it to a salvage yard. I think the cost of owning a motorcycle is at least comparable to most vehicles.

Insurance - In Florida, if you buy the motorcycle and own the title, you do not need to insure the motorcycle at all. My Ninja $650 was about $50 a month. My new 2021 Versus 650 is about $30 a month. Same engine, different name badge... Go figure. That's significant savings in a year. That's full coverage. Owning a motorcycle depends on use. I do not own a car. I put 16,000 miles on my 2020 Ninja 650 KRT. That's basically 2 sets of tires, not including the stock tires because they suck. That's 4-5 oil changes. I did bling out my motorcycle. Full Hindle exhaust ($600), ECU flash ($235), factory touring windscreen ($100 something), frame sliders, front wheel sliders, rear spools, Fumoto oil drain plug replacement, Hepco Becker C-Bow side cases ($500 for hardware and cases total cost). Big enough for holding my battery powered tire inflator from Walmart ($20), basic tire plug kit, motorcycle battery cables from Aerostich, my Frogg Togg rain suit and fits a hand basket full of groceries! When I bought tires I didn't buy cheap tires. I bought tires CHEAP! LOOK FOR SALES! ALWAYS! THAT HAS TO BE YOUR MINDSET! I've always used Fram oil filters. $6 a pop. Valvoline full synth motorcycle oil (10w-40) at $7 a quart. Angel ST tires - less than $300 a set. Plus $100 install. Valve adjust cost me $550 and included the oil change and lubrication and adjustment of cables and controls. The dealer told me I should wait to 25,000 miles for the valve adjustment. I never replace my fork oil. There really is no need if you're using the bike as a commuter. There's also no need to spend $14 on an oil filter that you toss in 3-4k miles. Same with the oil. $12-$14 a quart??!! Fuck that. It's not any more special than my $7 a quart Valvoline full synth. Last tire change I bought a chain and sprocket set from Sport Bike Track Gear for less than $200 and had them installed at the tire change to save on labor. If you're like me, Spurg raised a good point. But front and rear stands. Take your tires off. Call Uber. Throw in their trunk. If you only own a motorcycle you have to call an Uber or a friend to get your tires to the shop. If you really want to save money, invest your own sweat equity and change the tires yourself. You don't need to balance your tires at all if you use Ride-On tire balancer and flat prevention. I also have a cheap Chinese Bluetooth TPS ($30). Ninja 650 got 50+mpg. But with the exhaust and mapping I had to use 91 octane. My new 2021 Versus 650 gets the same mileage on 87 octane. You have to THINK cheap to save money. Not but cheap and risk safety. Battery... I ride daily rain or shine. I spent money WISELY to get gear for any weather. No need for a trickle charger. Batteries last 2-3 years like a car battery, but way cheaper than a car battery! If we were like the Asian nations and everyone bought scooters.... But you need a motorcycle to go distance. You could, and I could, talk about this all day.

I think a lot of the arguments here can be solved with a used dual sport. 2010 DR650 for ~$5k, tires are cheap, not super frequent oil changes, liability insurance is like $200 for a year, regular gas, like 45-50 MPG. As long as you have a good fuel filter you're not likely to have issues with the carburetor, valve adjustment is easy enough i think most people could do it themselves if they can do chains, sprockets, and oil changes themselves. Used the DR as an example because it's what I have experience with but I'm sure it applies to others as well.

I think if you buy a smaller CC (250-400 or less) bike that exists in East Asia or India they become way more economical when it comes to parts and gas. I noticed a distinct difference when a large cc bike is sold to a country where they are mostly toys and ones where it may be used as a daily.

So glad it concluded the way it did. Have been riding for 10 years,still don't own a car and I have been saying exactly that thing to people asking me if they should buy a bike. Yes it's cheap,but do you want to ride? Keep up the good work gent's.

Hmmm. Full insurance (collision, comprehensive, 3m third party liability) here in Alberta, Canada, costs me roughly $650 a year for both a 2019 Tracer 900GT and a 2021 Tenere 700. Here I thought the US had cheaper insurance? Crazy.

Great episode. I quit using cost of ownership as an excuse for my motorbike addiction a long time ago! That said, I do consider fuel economy and ease of maintenance as factors when making a purchase decision.

I love the hypothetical “if aliens dropped me off with $10k to get around, what do I buy to get around with money left over for Dairy Queen?” 😂😂😂

here is asia, we go for the small cc bike and scooters, 110cc,125cc ,150cc to 200cc are used to travel and to office and home, to avoid traffic, gas is not much of a factor since these little cc bikes you can gass up to 4 to 5 dollars and last you for 3 to 4 days

Spurge assuming that a modern KTM will make it to 90k on the odometer is the type of optimistic energy I need in my life right now

Maxi scooters are amazing for economical traveling. On my Forza 350 I can travel with my wife and luggage using only 80mpg and only needs oil changes every 8000 miles. Very low maintenance requirements on a single cylinder, very easy to check valves.

Thanks for mentioning the NC :) Bikes CAN be frugal and a great cheap way to get around. It's all about what your passion is for. If you're chasing thrills than sure, that hobby is gonna get pretty expensive, but if you just enjoy being on two wheels regardless of what you ride, there are some great options out there.

Motorcycles are cheaper if you don't factor in the Medical expenses.. The License plate is way less, Insurance is less. If you own a Harley Davidson then you need a truck or a car and Trailer to take the HD to the repair shop ..

Here's my thought: Royal Enfield Himalayan. 5K msrp (6.5 OTD), 3 year warranty, 70mpg Hard to beat that with a car.

I spend less on my motorcycle insurance than car, but that is because I have full coverage on my car but only liability on my bike. I was quoted nearly 3 times as much for full coverage on my motorcycle as my car. 2020 Street Triple vs 2019 Ford Ranger. No accidents on either motorcycle or car.

So I purchased a Burgman 200 to save on gas over my Nissan Frontier when commuting to work. I purchased the Burgman for $2800 and it was in showroom condition with 1040 miles. It gets 70-75 mpg for me compared to 22 in my truck. I ride it anytime it isn’t raining and the cold for the morning is 40f and above. I already had all the gear, I do my own oil, tire, and belt changes. And looking at fuel alone I save around 2.1 gallons per DAY that I ride the Burgman over driving my truck as I have a 66 mile commute round trip. Since I was adding the bike to my current motorcycle insurance policy it only cost me $50 per year to insure through progressive. So for me, already having another vehicle for transportation it was no contest between getting the Burgman over a 200k mile civic for 5k when trying to find ways to save at the pump. At current gas prices the bike will have saved me 2800 in gas when the odometer reaches around 20k miles thus paying for its self. This of course doesn’t take into account price of tires compared between the 2 etc etc… but if I had bought a older car to save on fuel with, it probably wouldn’t last long enough to pay for its self in fuel just because I would have to get such a high mileage car to begin with to get the cost down to a reasonable amount. My 2 cents from my experience

Interesting chat. I do the maintenance myself when it comes to my motorcycles, but not my car. I'm sure I could figure out how change the oil in my car, but it's easier to go to a Jiffy Lube.

I have a small versys x-300 and currently I pay 20€ a month for insurance. This month will be my first big service at 12000km. Cost estimate was 850€, but the estimate includes Tire change, coolant change and 12V output installation as extra.

I just bought a new motorcycle and fuel milage was low on my list of things to check. Its totally a pleasure thing. The bike is my happy place.

Complex subject well discussed. I think the discussion starting at 1:13 hit the nail on the head. As for the question at 1:23, if it was for savings only I would go with a 150cc to 300cc scooter. Convenient, economical and for me better then a car. I like scooters, but since it's not for just savings a motorcycle comes first with a scooter as a backup when I can. I'm slightly older and have used my motorcycle as primary year round transportation in the PNW for many years now. It has it's challenges (cost) and isn't for most, but for me the benefits to my mood way outway the cost. In the 🇺🇸 you need to want to do it for more then economics for it to make sense though.

What the literal f-.... well I guess I've never had full coverage on a motorcycle because I've bought used with cash and have multiple transportation options, but I'm insuring two Ducatis (S2R800 and SF848) and a Honda (CB300F) in the northern Virginia area with liability only for $150 a *year*. The numbers Spurgeon was throwing out for insurance were *mind boggling*!! Note to self, if I'm in the market for a brand new bike, see how much it costs to finance and carry full coverage versus planning farther ahead and buying with cash!

I actually started watching this vid thinking...am I going to be able to watch the entirety of it without clicking on another vid due to being bored. NO DISRESPECT TO THE GUYS IN THE VID. I JUST KNOW MY ATTENTION SPAN ISN'T THE GREATEST. I not only made it to the end but also enjoyed all of the content as well! Great work guys! I've spent countless hours brainstorming all of this vids content. I've been riding motorcycles for over 30 years and for the last 15 years I've ridden 10,000 miles plus a year on street and several hundred a year off road. I've always struggled with the cost versus the fun. I've even tried giving up riding for months to see if I could do without. I ENJOY ALL THAT COMES WITH RIDING A MOTORCYCLE. I feel that all of us that enjoy riding motorcycles will be able to justify all the costs that come with riding motorcycles as well. A motorcycle and a pick-up truck is all a person needs to get around. I live in the Pittsburgh, PA area. Then again this topic is definitely one that drums up plenty of thought and discussion.

I use a Yamaha MT-03 320cc 2017 and commuting with it. its fun and I don't use a lot consumables after putting road 6 on this bike. I do all the oil changes myself and do like 3-5 oil changes a year. Its doing around 59mpg. I have a cheap insurance doing 15$/month

Just to weigh in on insurance: My 2016 KTM 500exc is $31/month for full coverage, and my wife’s 2016 Honda Civic is $92/month in the Bay Area of California. That’s pretty much always been my experience. Purchase price is $11k vs. $33k. On another note, $500-1000 is high end for a moto tune-up, but it cost me about $1800 for a 65k mile tuneup on my Tacoma.

I hope you guys do a continuation of this topic. what would you pick if you had $700 a month to spend, and 5000 for down payment/upfront cost, with a 45 mile commute? I used a VTX 1300, and yes even during an ice storm.

Get on adventure! Damn, my family reunion is that weekend in North Dakota. Hey fam, let's move the party....

I ride Mostly Yamaha's the cost is very little to maintain compared to a car. I was a little shocked that my Brigstone Battle Axe was to the cords at 8,500 miles you can usually get 50,000 miles on a set of car tires..

In the US, bikes are more of a luxury, than a necessity. That is why the associated costs are higher. In Asia, bike cost less and are cheaper to run. Parts are practically a dime a dozen, If you look up the 70 and 125cc bikes that we have here and the mpg is usually easily above 100. In the city they have enough power.

I can’t imagine paying 7k for insurance. I wouldn’t be able to ride if it was that high where I live. My premium is only $240 annually. It’s on a gen1 Klr but the rate hasn’t changed in 10 years. So something doesn’t seems a little off.

I have a BMW 🇩🇪 f900xr as a second motorcycle. Not only is it an extremely versatile high spec high tech bike but if you adhere to the shift arrows on the TFT screen you can easily get in the mid 50’s miles per gallon. I personally get 60 mpg with a passenger, side cases and top case🤓. Pretty good for a 900cc engine. Even though it is my secondary motorcycle it is my favorite. Sporty, affordable, approachable, comfortable, practical, premium and efficient🥰🥰🥰. Don’t know many motorcycles with that combination🤔.

My addition to the mileage debate is this. My truck gets hi teens. My car gets low to mid 30ies. My 2015 Vulcan S gets 46 - 48 mpg. I am totally riding the bike for my 60mile round trip commute for the mpg. I can't do it year around but the days I can't is why I keep the 4 wheels.

Ride around on a Super Cub ,Grom, 125 cc Scooter ,160 cc Pcx. While motorcycle are more fule friendly once you get over 70 mph gas mileage gets close to the to cars on bikes over 650cc

I live in an Urban area and my insurance is now crazy town. Doubled with my zip code change.

My 2016 F800GS gets 55 MPG at 55 MPH which I'd say is pretty decent for its engine size!

As someone who rides most of the year (the exception is when there is snow or ice on the ground), I can say that riding in 15 degrees F with 30 MPH gusts can be very uncomfortable. Gear makes all the difference. Also my CBR500R is kitted out for touring (sport touring tires, panniers, double bubble windscreen, etc) and gets around 55 to 60 MPG on average for trips with lots of 75+ MPH highway miles. I can get better than 70 MPG on back highways trips. I have full coverage insurance which costs about 35 dollars a month, my cars cost two to four times as much. I use premium in all my vehicles so there is no cost savings for the cars when it comes to fuel grade. Overall motorcycling is far cheaper for me, even when extra maintenance is considered. I would ride more often if I didn't have the hassle of taking on and off all the gear. I follow the ATGATT philosophy and it creates enough of a hassle (along with helmet hair) to discourage riding it daily for work.

A part of the motorcycle vs car cost argument that I have realized recently is you save money in other places like eating out. I only owned a motorcycle for a few years and recently started a new job that provided me a truck that I could also use for personal use. I have spent more money on food and drinks lately because it’s so easy to just hop in a truck and run through a drive through or go get a drink somewhere when you get hungry or snacky vs finding something at home. So bikes help save money in that regard

I worked in the insurance industry for over 30 years. Motorcycles are MUCH cheaper to insure than automobiles.

A huge part of it depends on if you save on tolls and parking with a bike. I have a scooter for the commute which costs peanuts in fuel and servicing, and it gets free parking and half price tolls - it’s significantly cheaper than even public transport for me. If I rode my motorbike to work every day, the serving costs and depreciation would rack up fairly quickly as I do about 400 kms a week.

it depends on where you live really. if you live in the southwest and you ride a small displacement japanese bike say a z400/z300 that might work. i wanted to say an xt250 or even a taobao 250 but those can only be used locally, z400/z300 will have the flexibility to be used on the freeway. between gas and simple oil changes versus a cheap used japanese 4 banger; id say your still ahead but realistically if you are in the 2 wheel lifestyle you will still need a used econobox to shop at walmart/ralphs! cant get those racks of beef ribs and stuff it in your knapsack, i mean you can but what if you are buying 5 plus figure the bbq sauce etc

The answer to all of this in my experience is multiple vehicles targeted to individual purpose. Commuting, weekend pleasure cruising, canyon carving, etc. That goes for cages and bikes.

my 250 cc motorcycle gets 69mpg ish and is definitely better than my 34.8 in the car

Al always, very nice👍

Before Spurgeon stated he was only 23 years old looking at an insurance cost of $7000/year on the Triumph, I was thinking wtf did you do to receive such a high quote. But I realized it's the Triumph ST, and, well, that'll do it.

Motorcycles don't do as much damage to a car. Motorcycle Insurance costs less in the snowbelt too because they are off the road 4 months per year. 1000 CC Sport Bikes have way higher Insurance. I pay $305.00 per year for Full Coverage on my 2016 Yamaha FZ-07

Spurge there is a F in shaft drive and it really should be pronounced. Zack got the order right this week, way to go ZACK! My car is 3.2L turbo straight 6 and gets about 28mpg, my bike is 1000cc v-twin and gets about 20mpg. So, for me, no the bike is not cheaper than the car at least gas cost wise. The bike is way more fun though! However, the total costs over a year between the 2 I think the bike would win. Do Spurge and Spencer use the same hair stylist? My suggestion would be new bike, good used car.

Killer shirt Spurg!

How do you take the tires to the shop if you don’t have a car? By the time you add in taxi costs, you may not save that much when you figure the time and hassle. I mount and balance my own tires, but I also invested $500 into a NoMar changer to make this more palatable. In 10 years, I’ve now changed enough tires to pay for the NoMar, but compared to car tires where mounting and balancing is often included in the tire price and takes 30 minutes at a competent shop, bike tire changes are far more costly and time consuming than car tire changes.

Bro, the Chevy Spark barely sells. Not only that, it's not a safe car to drive nor is it reliable. A new Kawasaki Ninja 300 vs a new Toyota Prius. A Prius cost twice as much, just in car payments alone to cover the cost of ownership of a motorcycle over 1yr. That's not including the Prius maintenance, insurance, fuel, etc. To buy a good used car today, you're paying $15k-20k is still more expensive than a bike just off car payments and would likely need repairs sooner plus no warranty.

Another factor in the fuel comparison is seat miles per gallon. Now, most commuting is solo so the direct comparison is fair, but many other trips have 3 or more people in a car so when you look at the seat miles per gallon, a car with 4 people is more efficient transportation than is a motorcycle with 2 people.

Vehicle registration! My truck is like $492 a year. Insurance is around $948. Gas $3360 (I drive a lot) $4800 a year round up to $5,000 for an oil change every 5,000 miles. Odds n ends. Just had my 40k maintenance done on my tacoma, was only $748. Tires were icr $1200. Gas is my biggest wallet killer and tacomas get pretty bad mpg. And its a truck so registration is more, especially here in Ca. Small car, no commute, no road trips, itd be more comparable but then I would have to pay to have a new fridge brought to me, to take away an old washer/dryer from my parents, haul firewood, etc etc. Not to mention driving sketchy backwoods logging roads wouldnt be doable in a prius. And taking our camping/hunting gear wouldnt be doable on a dual sport or adv. So even that may even out depending on lifestyle.

It so depends on the individual needs of the person. One person living in a maj city and commuting a mile or less to work could get by just fine with a scooter. If you commute 100mi a day thru 4 seasons, you better look for a car first. For most places and circumstances in the US, a cage makes more sense as a necessity. Myself, a retired guy in Alabama looking for max efficiency and fun, I need a small truck, hatchback, or minivan for practical needs and a 400-650cc bike for fun. Both should be obtainable fairly inexpensively used and be cheap to insure.

National Parks allow 2 motorcycles with up to 4 people on one pass.

In my university days I purchased a cheap 250cc motorcycle for the primary reason that it would be cheaper than a car. This little bike could barely reach 110km/hr (70mph) but was where my love affair with bikes began. It wasn't just that I thought it would be cheaper, I could also lane split and park the bike anywhere (no time limits or costs). I had a break from the course, returned a year later and purchased a cheap car with a 1500cc engine. Both were Japanese brands and mid 1980s models - so about as close a comparison as you could make. By memory, they cost about the same amount to buy and each gave me zero trouble. The little 250cc bike was definitely cheaper to run. At the same time I purchased the car, I also bought a Honda VFR 750 which was also used for commuting but mostly for fun. The bike was WAY more expensive to run all round with insurance and tyres being the big ticket items. I wouldn't even say the fuel mileage was better on the VFR simply because I road the bike like a bike but drove the car like a penny pinching student. Another anecdote - I go through a rear tyre in 6000kms on average. I replaced the first set of tyres on a car I have owned since new at 60,000kms. The guy who owned the car tyre shop was absolutely shocked as he had no idea how fast we use up bike tyres compared to car tyres!

On the insurance front, the CATEGORY of motorcycle you are insuring has a lot to do with the cost as well as how the insurer categorizes the bike you are insuring (which changes from company to company). And it’s kinda strange because the initial cost of the bike doesn’t always have that much to do with it. For example: I live in philadelphia and about 6 years ago was looking at getting a street triple R or a Daytona. Bikes that are essentially the same, less the clip ons and body work. The price between the two they had on the floor were almost the same so I looked at insurance. Because the street triple is considered a standard bike and not a sport bike at this particular insurer it was about $400 cheaper per year. I bought the Striple.

In the UK the price of used vehicles is way different to what you're talking about. You can buy a used car in working order for £1k quite easily. It's harder to get a decent condition bike for that money here. Insurance wise there is a VAST difference for young drivers. I think my first year of riding was £420 for the year, now it's about £100 on a litre bike. Car insurance in my younger days would have been well over £1k just for the first years insurance and is still £350-£400 a year for me at 30 years old. I think where you live makes a big difference to this whole equation

Depends on needs and location, but the initial costs particularly on a new bike, are not cheaper. If you stay in it though, you've got a shot - and that's even with a cheap bike. The problem in the US is that the services around motorcycles are, I believe, comparatively higher than places with more motorbike riders (oil changes for motorcycles are more expensive than for cars and take longer). Add to that the lack of reduced cost purchase/use offers for bikes compared to cars. There are a few motorcycle sharing ventures, but nothing large or nationwide. I have yet to EVER find motorcycle leasing in the US. I think motorcycle riders in the US would be a prime group to market leased bikes to, but I guess this is an insurance issue. Going back to services, there tends to be more that needs to be done for a given amount of mileage on bikes than cars. You can build bikes that don't run as hard and need less work, but that's sensible and sensible bikes aren't marketed much in the US.

When you compare a Honda Civic it should be a bike equivalent of it, a KTM 690 is not one. A better comparison would be some Honda 250-300.

Another Zach and Ari adventure please

We have to compare like for like, we start having problem if we compare car that strictly for commuting vs bike that mainly for passion. I own 1 motor-scooter Forza 300 + 1 small car ( Mazda 3) both strictly for commuting my wife use the car I use the bike, the bike 3.5 times cheaper to buy, cost 1/2 to maintain by mechanic, 1/3 for insurance, sadly only abit more than 1/2 more efficient. there is no question bike is cheaper, but in my take 1 fall from that bike can cost you more than all the saving you save from riding motorbike. is that the risk you willing to take? in my case I willing to take that risk and try to minimize it as much as I can. the time I save by commuting by bike enormous. In Sydney you able to use bus line and line-filtering that alone shed at-least 20 min each way, compare to car, not to mention you can find parking almost anywhere and practically free.

90,000 miles on a set of tires is a huge outlier. Hardly anyone gets that kind of mileage on a set of tires at any price.

I think the biggest factor (for me at least) is time saved.

I would carry a small multimeter as part of my tool kit, as well as spare fuses and electrical tape, but I work with electricity and know how to use it so that’s not necessarily going to help everyone.

This cheap transportation subject is near and dear to my heart. I run small, used-but-not-old, Japanese bikes. Do all my own maintenance up to and including valve adjustments. My insurance rates are cheeeeap - even with collision. For me, my motorcycles are very cheap to run compared to any car I've owned, and I've run some very cheap cars. Your mileage may seriously vary however. (Also, goddamn does a car/truck/van ever make more sense for most Americans as an only vehicle. You really need like a spouse with a car at the very least to make it work well.)

Just wanted to hop in here and say that I am just getting into motorcycles ( got two free late 80's shadows). I spent the weekend listening to about 12 hours of your pod casts and it was awesome info as I repaired my first bike. Thanks for the insight and great personalities you have on this show. Will definitely listen from now on.

See I just happen to be one of the few people I know in my city that ride and also drive for a living. Many may not understand but driving 10k+ miles a week all day every day in this amazing spring weather and seeing all the other riders just loving it is absolute f*cking torture! 🤣🤣 anyone else? No? Just me? Ite…cool