Are Tolkien's Lord of the Rings Movies & Series using the WRONG WEAPONS? 

Basically the elfs got it better than the humans. I think a light not so light cuting orientated thrust capable shat weapon that silty longer than you. For example a Berdiche or Glaives or Bill or Halberd or Partizan or a sword staf or a sword spear or add a mice weight before blade weapon like 500g or Chinese weapons: Guandao , Qiang, Ji , tang or a Guāndāo. Maby those some what thick Han China large long swords. Perhaps a especial design to make them heavier to hit harder. Or Japanese weapon an advance Naginata or advance designe of Yari or a Kanabo. Or maybe a staff mice with a spike ,or a bit shorter version where it have this head in both ends. Or maybe a bit of an blade but not long on a spire but with a shild in a Greek like way but with powerful posion that kills and damage nerve system very quickly. I think poison is the way around the problem. Or perhaps useing a sling to throw explosives/flammable or posion powder or acid/chemicals. Perhaps an explosive head javelin or poisoned. Those would be very effective against the big boys like trolls and big beasts. It can be used from a horseback. Perhaps explosive flammable and acid equipped arrows doing Mongolia thing. On battlefield they would need much more and much longer pikes. Perhaps even to be hold by more than one person. Square formations and greek and Roman unite tactics comes to play for infantry. Perhaps deploying very small 3 or 5 people together unite rule like in China where this small group attack together even if the target is one person. In advance level each unite would took coordinate with other unites around. Perhaps deploying moving walls of wood. For example wagons and small dragable wall like large wagons. Making advance and large charities is something to consider too. Train heavier draw weight bows 300Ib+ , perhaps fir those the arrows are lead or bronze not wood.

Great video, thanks for the insights. This discussion also works for other fantasy concepts such as in video games like Warhammer vermintide. This game is also about fighting against large groups of enemies like orks, goblins/ratmen, demons, giants, etc, so it can be relevant to LotR's setting. This discussion about what weapon to pick also happens regularly among players since we must face mixed groups of enemies regularly. When dealing with large groups of unarmored troops with an unknown amount of armored troops mixed in, you really want to maximize the effectiveness of the primary weapon you are using against both types of units. You'd want to either have a light weapon that's good for speed and quickly killing light armored enemies while still being ok for killing or disabling that heavy armored foe long enough to at least get away from them, or have a moderately heavy weapon with good range so you can support a teammate at your front while being powerful enough to stagger any heavy armored foe you encounter long enough for your teammate to finish the job or get to a safer position. Ideally you'd have a small team of solders each with different weapon outfits which fulfill dedicated rolls. Going head on while solo vs a fully functional or atleast fully armed army is simply suicide. You want to be effective for most situations but you simply can't be 100% effective vs all types of enemies by yourself no matter how many cold weapons you carry. Having backup to cover your weaknesses will let you be more effective in your dedicated roll while leaving your counter enemies to others. Teamwork and good taticts can possibly overcome overwhelming odds. Someone with a sword and buckler can defend your archers at the back from getting mobbed while a Spearman behind him can cover his openings and protect his flanks, the heavy armored greatsword user will be at the front facing the hoard to thin out their numbers quickly while the archer at the back will cover him by taking out their ranged troops or picking off high value targets like commanders or mages. A well oiled team can out perform a difference in numbers with enough teamwork and skill, especially against lightly trained, low intelligence targets who rely on numbers to overwhelm their foes. Stamina becomes the issue in a small group as each person will carry many times more load than their opponents, but with the right setup they might even defeat 10 times their on numbers. You want to maximize the efficiency for each role so that you spend the least effort for the max effect whenever possible. If you are solo vs a hoard of mixed enemies, it's not easy to keep switching weapons in a game, let alone in real life where any number of things can go wrong at any moment. You can't have the right tool for the job always ready to be deployed and not face complications. Your main priority in that kind of situation should be to stay alive first, and kill things second. Your primary fighting style should be to create openings for yourself, and to keep moving and to kite your opponents to avoid getting hemmed in. If you must stand your ground for some reason, you want to make sure to cut off as many lines of attack for your enemy as possible by having something behind you like a wall or a tree, heading to higher ground to cut off high attacks, having a trench, barricade, wall, fallen log, etc. in front of you to block low attacks from pesky goblins, etc. It will be far more important to have free mobility to move around their army, than to have a great sword when you are being surrounded on all sides. Yes you could spin the sword around so no one gets close, but if they all rush at you with spears or decide to pile up on you to slow you down, you will die pretty quickly. They could also shoot at you of course, but you're probably going to be in armor so it might mitigate some of it, though a lot of damage could still go through. Ideally you'd want either a dual wielding weapon set or a long reach weapon that is capable of cleaving through or pushing aside multiple light armored enemies while also having a strong enough thrust point to get through a decent amount of armor and nimble enough to target weak points. Very few weapons come to mind which could have a strong enough swing to cut through two or even three enemies in light armor while also being nimble enough to target weak points and strong enough to go through mail or padded armor, let alone plate armor or thick troll hide. A few weapons like the kriegsmesser, trishul/swordstaff/hooked glaive style polearm, or short weapons like sword/axe/rapier and shield, dual short sword/sword and dagger, axe and armor, etc. come to mind in terms of surviving a hoard for a longer period of time, but each weapon also has it's disadvantages when it comes to either killing higher amounts if enemies, defending yourself while attacking, or just the stamina cost to keep fighting for the minutes, hours, or even days on end you would need to with minimal rest. The top candidates for it are I think the great sword types like the kriegsmesser or claymore, the long bladed pole arms like swordstaff or long spear, or the short and powerful weapons like the light axe/ falcion and piercing dagger for armor with a shield, or a Dane axe with enough armor to ignore missiles. Ranged weapons should be the secondary weapons since you must find advantageous positions to take out key targets, but it's hard to make it be a primary weapon since you are constantly on the move and can't always be sure to pickup dropped arrows while running for your life. It's also hard to have a large weapon like a pole arm or great sword and use any other weapon since you might have to drop the big weapon to switching but suddenly have to run away because you were being surrounded. In melee range, you have to be able to rely on your main weapon and your own skill to keep your freedom and kill your enemies. Switching weapons is very risky and can leave you open to attacks at a bad moment. It could be an option when using one handed weapons or things which are easy to carry without using your hands, but generally you want to prioritize mobility and reach to stay alive. Overall I think mobility and effective tactics are more important than your singular weapon choice, as long as it's good enough to kill what you want to kill without tiring you unnecessarily. A good position and the right tools can kill even the toughest opponents and enough distance from the hoard will let you choose your own battles instead of being dragged into the meatball of doom.

The classical Roman legion kit would have a good amount of versatility for the various kinds of opponents, with the pilum useful against large monsters like trolls and wargs while the scutum and gladius would be effective for bullrushing smaller and weaker opponents while maintaining stamina, particularly if supplemented by plumbata or similar weapon for dealing with multiple opponents just out of reach, as well as the large scutum negating the goblins arrows. Also, the practice of the legion having its own mobile artillery, i.e. ballistas, would also be very useful for dealing with the fewer, larger, more robust creatures in a goblin army.

shout out to being on josh gates expedition unknown the other night.

It's just woke drivel there's not alot of point looking at the TV show because they're not even accurate to Tolkien let alone reality and physics.

I also think that similarly, they did not load up with numerous weapons because they were already carrying food, water, clothing, cooking and eating gear, ropes, a few basic tools, and more. All with only one pack pony. They were also trusting more to stealth and speed than force of arms. Or at least that was their plan. - And with different people in the fellowship carrying different weapons, you did have some degree of flexibility already. Lots of pesky goblins? Four nimble halflings, an elf and a man with quicker weapons. Inrushing foes? An elf and a man with bows. Big beastie? A dwarf with a hefty axe and a man with a longsword. Sure, not as "perfect" as everyone carrying a bow AND a quick weapon AND a shield AND a weapon for big beasties. But how many pack animals would that lead to?

@@MonkeyJedi99 absolutely true, I really like how thought out the things they took with them are, there is an actual good reason for why they didn't all just suit up in full armor and it is also an opurtunity to chracterise gimly and the dwarves more.

@@MonkeyJedi99 well the hobbits don't contribute much to the action in the books, it's really all on Aragorn, Boromir, Legolas, gimli and then Gandalf to keep them safe.

in ttt when the hunters are laying boromir to rest, its mentioned that his maille and helm are laid with him. this could be from the gear that the hunters collected from the dead orcs, but i dont think so because its mentioned that they lay all of that into a mound

Basically the elfs got it better than the humans. I think a light not so light cuting orientated thrust capable shat weapon that silty longer than you. For example a Berdiche or Glaives or Bill or Halberd or Partizan or a sword staf or a sword spear or add a mice weight before blade weapon like 500g or Chinese weapons: Guandao , Qiang, Ji , tang or a Guāndāo. Maby those some what thick Han China large long swords. Perhaps a especial design to make them heavier to hit harder. Or Japanese weapon an advance Naginata or advance designe of Yari or a Kanabo. Or maybe a staff mice with a spike ,or a bit shorter version where it have this head in both ends. Or maybe a bit of an blade but not long on a spire but with a shild in a Greek like way but with powerful posion that kills and damage nerve system very quickly. I think poison is the way around the problem.

Exactly what I was going to say. Matt's "migration era" estimate is probably spot on for Rohan. Gondor on the other hand is essentially a post-apocalyptic remnant of the more advanced civilization, Numenor. People associated with that civilization will have access to tech that others don't which is why Aragorn has a long sword

That sort of happened in real history with the fall of Rome and the Bronze Age Collapse. I think those are far more realistic influences than the Late Medieval period.

@@laramyelliott2903 so maybe: Rohan should use migration-era equipment, and Gondor should use Byzantine equipment?

I agree, but considering Tolkien's areas of interest, I've always viewed Middle Earth as post-Roman Europe, where much technology and arcane knowledge was lost, but where everyday and often used knowledge, such as how to forge a blade, continued to advance (though at a slower pace).

Tolkien explicitly said that the Third Age is the most "medium aeveum" (i.e. "medieval") of the three main ages described in his Legendarium. That includes the decline of technological knowledge and the decline of certain once-great polities by the time of the late Third Age. The Fourth Age might have once again reversed the trend, though that coincided with another period of transition from a "more magical" world to an ever more mundane, ever more "historical" world.

Mr. Mortensen is 5'11 (180cm), imagine 6'6'' (2 meter) tall Viggo Mortensen wielding the movie version of Narsil. I can get behind that.

You beat me, Joshua! To add more context, Glamdring was the sword of Turgon, one of the tallest person on Middle Earth ever, second (or third?) only to Elu Thingol. A two-handed sword made for Turgon would be so massive that Gandalf, who is described as "short", would not be able to use it alongside his staff. Also, Narsil comes from Thingol's armory, so again, it cannot be two-handed, it would be too big. Great video! I agree with everything.

Glamdring and Orcrist were made by elves in the first age, Narsil was made by a dwarf along with the knife Angrist and Turin's Dragon helm (edit spelling)

That being said, Aragorn had 60+ years of combat and survival experience under his belt, so I can only imagine how good he would be with any weapon he could pick up. When he gets to the war he does start wearing Rohirric armor. Source material mentions that Legolas’ now was a 200 lbs draw and he got armor in the book as well. If the movie makers did the Gondorian and Rohirrim armies historical and practical justice, I think we would have seen more butt kicking on their part.

@Joe Becker I didn’t say that it was forged by an elf, just that it was forged *for* elves.

Thanks. I going to point that out but if nobody else had. If I remember right, Sean Bean even uses the shield properly, always keeping it up in front of him during combat, which you don't always see in popular media.

@@Bastardson_ You mean how they usually use the shield as a kind of counterweight to the sword?

@@Runegrem Hah, yep.

Wow his lust for the ring probably made him neglect to take the shield with which left him vulnerable…

In the film version only "his broken sword they to the water brought" because his cloven shield has left the chat.

I think, best comment.

I think you are over estimating the size of the population of Europe in the middle ages and under estimating how empty it was. Huge swathes of France are empty. The highlands of Scotland take a week to traverse on foot. The Welsh mountains aren't much easier. The moors have a bleak bare arse harshness that you have to see to understand.

@@zoiders Middle Earth is worse though. It's almost post-apocalyptic and it kinda is, if you look at places like the former kingdom of Arnor. E.g., they travel 40 days from Rivendell to Moria and only then are entering an area that's inhabited, and even that, Rhudaur, is very empty and sparsely settled. Medieval Europe isn't crowded, but 40 days straight through it, never meeting anone?

@@hafor2846 absolutely. Medieval Europe might be sparsely populated by modern standard but it wasn't league upon leagues of wilderness.

Yes it will be easier if they have extra carriage or pack animals Though I can't remember the reason why they didn't in the books, maybe complex landscapes?

Not to mention the fact that it would be pretty awkward to carry around for long distances, especially while trying to be sneaky.

Eh actually with all of the places they fought the only place it wouldn't work would be a place were you can't use any weapon at all. Cause all of the places they fought weren't that cramped as to restrict a greatswords use.

U could use half swording to maeiver tight spaces. But I think the Zweihander would be the best 1 weapon setup. U can manuever them alot quicker than u think with practice. And it has more than enough left for chopping heavily armored or lager foes without being large to the point ot exhaustion. They're only 3 lbs at most 4. Just long

Just use it like a spear then 🤷‍♂️

Then cast aside your great sword for a moment, and draw your arming sword/handaxe and shield. Remember to grab your great weap on the way out.

I do believe the elven swords are supposed to be lighter, too

Magic weapons in Tolkien can often cut metal like wood.

@@mindstalk Where in any of his books does that happen? I certainly can't remember it in LOTR of the Silmarillion. And about those magic weapons, I have seen that argument a couple of times now when talking about Aragorn parrying that troll sword with Anduril at the black gates. But really, it's not in the books that any of those famous swords give any kind of superpower to the wielder. The most magic a weapon is ever described is Sting glowing blue. Yeah, certain blades are ancient, made by the elves, etc, some might even be of Mithril, but thats about it. Even Narsil is never described as being anything magic. It's a symbol of the King of Gondor and Arnor, and orks are terrified of it, but thats mainly because of it's reputation, it did cut off Saurons ring after all. Even at the men of Dunharrow only follow Aragorn because he is the rightful king, not because of Anduril. If I remember correctly Aragorn parrying the dead king's sword is also movie only.

@@slome815 "Beren despoiled him of his gear and weapons, and took his knife, Angrist. That knife was made by Telchar of Nogrod, and hung sheathless by his side; iron it would cleave as if it were green wood." -- Silmarillion "Then Beleg chose Anglachel; and that was a sword of great worth, and it was so named because it was made of iron that fell from heaven as a blazing star; it would cleave all earth-delved iron" -- Silmarillion "And from the blade rang a cold voice in answer: ‘Yea, I will drink thy blood gladly, that so I may forget the blood of Beleg my master, and the blood of Brandir slain unjustly. I will slay thee swiftly.’ " -- Silmarillion "But even as the orc flung down the truncheon and swept out his scimitar, Andúril came down upon his helm. There was a flash like flame and the helm burst asunder." -- Fellowship "Very bright was that sword when it was made whole again; the light of the sun shone redly in it, and the light of the moon shone cold" -- Fellowship "the bright blade of Andúril shone like a sudden flame as he swept it out" -- Towers "Andúril rose and fell, gleaming with white fire." -- Towers "three times Andúril flamed in a desperate charge that drove the enemy from the wall." -- Towers "with a clink-clink of chains... It made no trouble whatever of cutting through the goblin-chains and setting all the prisoners free as quickly as possible. This sword’s name was Glamdring the Foe-hammer" -- Hobbit So that's mulitple blades that can cut metal easily. Frodo also uses Sting to hurt a troll on which Boromir's blade had bounced off. And Sting and Glamdring don't just glow randomly, they glow specifically in response to the presence of orcs.

@@slome815 well, blades of Arnor were specially made against undead and are the only weapons, besides, perhaps, elven swords and Narsil/Anduril, that can slay barrow-wight or even cripple a Nazgul, because other weapons could not do any harm to a ghost. Moreover, Anduril's ability to slay one of Oathbreakers was actually the only way, ruler of Dunharrow recognised Rightful King of Dunedain.

You can play battle of the middle earth 2 mod "Edain Mod" where you have all this type of units base on the books and with specialty like heavy armour or armur special for heavy armour units. Example you have the normal orcs that are numerous and can create heavy armored Molgurs Orcs that are fewer but resist a lot and poison orcs for extra damage to normal units. The same as Gondor you have a Sword fighter of the sub kingdoms of Gondor with short sharped sword and shield for double damage to trash mobs units and the heavy armored Gondorians from Minas Thirit for pure defensive. value.

Mixed units always suffer from not having good formations though, and they generally don't work well against organised armies. Everyone in this horde is vulnerable to arrows, so blocks of archers will be hugely effective. And because it's a mixed unit they can't even bunch up temporarily. And then the various warbeasts are not disciplined - They won't just stop if told to. They will crush their friends in an attempt to complete their headlong charge. Or run away, or really anything they like. And what happens to all of the guys who are actually poorly armed for the encounter they find themselves in? Maybe the Olifant fancies his chances, but the Goblin clearly is not happy about being herded to charge a block of spearmen, that even if he had a spear he couldn't reach on account of being stunty. When we do see mixed units working they tend to be not really very mixed - We see blocks of men who all have some sort of polearm, for example. Alternatively we see formations like the Tercio, combining melee and firearms, but this rapidly developed into more and more firearms with just enough pikemen to fend off cavalry, and the swordsmen were forgotten about. And then the bayonet combines the two and now it's no longer a mixed formation. Formation matters so much. And the real value of the beasts is that they break up formations when they impact them. But they also break up YOUR formation. You can't form tight ranks, and you can't receive a charge well.

@@lostalone9320 first off, that's not what mixed unit tactics means. But also, why would you have the beasts with the front line of infantry? Shouldn't you be treating them like cavalry instead and flanking the enemy?

Also, if we consider Games Workshop "fake" units (units not mentioned in books or only with single or brief lines) then most races have a battlefield seige engine aka Dwarven ballista or gondorian avenger bolt thrower. these dont exist in books but would absolutely be something these cultures would have (Dwarves having a ballista is particularly believable and Gondor using old Numenorean seige equipment that we do see on old ships, which the Pirates of Umbar used on the Black Ships)

Interesting thing: when we first meet Aragorn the only weapon he appears to have is the broken Narsil. We don’t see him using anything else (beside a burning branch) until he gets to Rivendell, where his sword is finally reforged.

A ranger using a shield wouldn't make much sense out in the wild. Plus Aragorn isnt quite human

@@cammoblammo Kinda makes more sense in the film tbh

Aragorn may be of royal descent, but the Rangers as a whole are an impoverished remnant. They would use old hand-me-down weapons and whatever they could pick up on the battlefield. They would definitely not have the luxury of designing weapons for specific situations. The Rohirrim were in a similar situation. Gondor? It is a throwback to the old days, too fossilized and set in their ways to think of any innovation.

I was thinking along similar lines but more 18th century than your commandos. Mountain men and long hunters of the North American Frontier would be a good comparison, don't you think? Them and the native tribes they would encounter. Regardless, your point holds together very well and I agree.

in other words, more or less exactly how they're equipped in the books.

That is a very good analysis. I'm trying to think now if this "evasive scout" mentality fits most other adventuring parties.

Historically in our real world, adventurers and quests did exist in Europe, in the form of the knights-errant and their travelling. While it sounds cool, realistically most of these were just roaming mercenaries drawn from the military landowning class. As such, a real-life, historically accurate questing party of adventurers would have been a knight-errant and his retinue. This would have consisted of at the minimum the knight, his horse, his squire, and if they're lucky a second horse or a donkey. However, from historical mentions of such retinue, it could also include a few servants, some specialist fighting men, and even the knight's wife and kids. At the extreme end it could be a knight, his family and servants, and his personal small army of fighting men complete with wagons and extra horses.

@HoboMaster They weren't expecting to encounter most of those things (wargs or trolls at the very worst). The movies make it look like the Balrog was something everybody knew about, and the Fellowship just blundered in there. In the book, Moria was thought to be at best abandoned, and at worst inhabited/ruled by orcs. Against anything bigger than a troll, there's probably nothing they could have brought that would be any help, except for specific things like Galadriel's phial against Shelob.

This makes sense considering how much Beowulf was an inspiration to Tolkien.

Farmer Giles of Ham has whatever is available, rings sown on leather, rather than linked chain mail. "Ringing and jingling like Canterbury bells". If I recall. An overlooked Tolkienian hero, who deserves a film of his own.

@@realhorrorshow8547 I loved that part. No armorer. No armor. Just the blacksmith sewing whatever rings were handy onto a leather coat. I would love to see a FGoH animated film.

you don't need dwarves to get mail. All the Races use that technology once you get past the very beginning of the First Age.

@@MrChickennugget360 Farmer Giles of Ham was not set in Middle Earth

I second this. In the story about the fall of Isildur, it is mentioned that the orcs rabbed the shields of the high men and pulled them out of formation, which very strongly suggests a shield wall.

I remember one passage, when Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth discovers Eowyn on the battlefield, he notices that her breath fogs the polished steel of his vambrace. So JRRT did mention at least one piece of plate armor.

for me i would be fine with either cause in the movie i like how like you say the charge will have them slaughtered in min, it really feels like if frodo dosent destroy the ring fast they and especialy aragon will die against that troll

@@NOOBATRON-bs4jo Except the purpose of their stand they make was to keep Sauron's attention directed away from his lands. And, as they did not know exactly when Frodo and Sam will reach the Cracks of Doom, they would want to keep him and his forces distracted as long as possible. If the hobbits had not been at Orodruin, and they had been defeated quickly, with Sauron discovering that neither Aragorn nor Gandalf had the ring, then Sauron might have suspected it was a diversion and turned his attention to the Plains of Gorgoroth. Essentially, their task was like that of the Greeks at Thermopylae - to hold as long as possible. And in the book, like the Greeks, they adopt tactics which reduce the advantage of the enemy's numbers.

@@robhogg68 yeah that is big true i forgot they couldnt have known where he was

It was quite the opposite-technology was actually regressing. There are quite a few times where it’s noted that the ability to create such and such a building or artefact had passed on.

Yes. Imagine he would have been forced to fight the Nazgul in Bree or swinging the torch wasn't enough on Weathertop (dont remember anymore if this scene is comparable to the book). He knew the enemy was probably after Frodo and the Ring so ... why go unarmed? And regarding survival in the wild lateron: how is he going to hunt for the Hobbits or the Fellowship with only his sword? So at least he must have been equipped with a bow, a dagger (for skinning and preparing the meat) and some kind of melee weapon for fights from the beginning. This is why I like the idea of Aragorn having another sword with him (at least until Andúril was reforged). And regarding "carrying the shards in his scabbard": Am I the only one who has to always grin when trying to imagine how Aragorn gets the shards out of the scabbard when presenting it? Like "Wait a second boys....I just have ... to turn it over.....and ...err....throw the shards on the bed. Otherwise I would cut my hand, if I would let them just fall in my open hand, right?" XD

The maker of Sting probably named Sting, Sting for a reason. It's the size of a dagger for anyone other than a hobbit and orc detection is a utility that would make it a good survival knife. I think the earliest elvish weapons would be interesting to see. I wonder what Morgoth taught the elves in secret. Did he give them specific weapon designs or did he teach them the science of violence? Did he simply frighten them with rumors allowing elvish minds to invent their own weapons and defenses as they had their own enemies?

​@@iivin4233 The maker of Sting didn't name it though, Bilbo did. Or the descendants of Ungoliant in Mirkwood did.

As far as Tolkien wrote about such matters there was no direct contact between Morgoth and elves before Valinor, but he "filled the night with terrors" (so that fear of the dark is explained) and we might guess that those were reason enough to at least consider using tools like axes against such creatures. Another interesting aspect into elvish minds concerning weapons is the fact that in one branch of Elvish the words for axes and spears seem to refer not to the whole construction but to the metal blades only. Like they considered wooden shafts not part of the weapon as such but rather a necessary accessory or something...

Well yeah Tolkien essentially transposes the western charge at the walls of Vienna and the western alliance at the battle of the Catalonian fields to the fall of Constantinople (saving it from the 200,000 strong horde) in his battle of the pelenor fields.

He referenced the Egyptians as a major influence on Gondor, so more or less.

@@jacquesstrapp3219 In letter 211 Tolkien wrote to Rhona Beare: "The Numenoreans of Gondor were proud, peculiar, and archaic, and I think are best pictured in (say) Egyptian terms. In many ways they resembled 'Egyptians' - the love of, and power to construct, the gigantic and massive. And in their great interest in ancestry and in tombs."

@@jacquesstrapp3219 Mind, Egypt is the _only_ significant influence that is non-European that I know of, and the Hellenic Greeks perceived themselves as descendants of Egyptian culture, adding some level of cognitive affiliation with the Egyptians in the Western tradition.

@@jacquesstrapp3219 Why are you even arguing? The man himself literally said this about his own work, whether you know about that letter doesn't matter, he clearly drew influences from Egypt.

I was asking myself question, would have been LotR better if there were more historically accurate things. And I think, it would not. LotR is historically accurate enough that nothing sticks out. When enough is done here, further artistic choices should be made to represent and individualize character. Not to satisfy small percentage of audience that have very niche hobby and OCD. I like history, but art is more important.

@@VK-sz4it also to the point it is still a fantasy story with very low key magic. it's earth before the magic goes away so it's not like historical accuracy was a sticking point at any point either.

As opposed to the perfectly fuctional ones from the movies, like orcrist or arwens weird spiky katana thing

Ugh. Once I saw that still of Galadriel (?) in that steel back brace (there is no way that is armor for a person who breathes or moves) I decided to not watch the thing if/when it ever comes out.

@@MonkeyJedi99 well, you have fun with that, I'll at least give it a proper chance before deciding if it's worth my time

@@culchieman1995 Arwen's sword is perfectly functional. Curved swords exist. The spike on her sword is at the handle and essentially forms a half cross-guard. Nothing wrong with that. Same with orcrist, it is a perfectly functional falchion sword. It looks a little thick to me, almost foam sword -like, but there is nothing wrong with the profile of that weapon at all.

@@culchieman1995 the marketing for the show has been enough to know it'll be crap. The costume design just doubly confirmed the low quality for me.

100% this. It makes far more sense for groups of people to divide responsibilities than it does for each person to have all the things at all the times. Plus, when you encounter the bigger/beefier threats, the more nimble weapons can still be used in conjunction with the poleax. They might be less effective, but they can still contribute.

With that many people making noise, you can be sure any trouble will find you. Whereas one or two people trained in stealth could more easily evade or flee from danger.

Depend on what type of ork and from what fantasy setting. Even in Tolkien world the orks descripted in the Simarilion look way more fearsome than most of Sauron orks, and most of them would use spears. If you take the orks from Warhammer instead, then you have massive monsters way bigger and stronger than a man.

The new One Ring 2e takes the approach of early medieval at least with armor though weaponry is a little inconsistent. Many of the images in the rulebook are pretty cool as well, except unfortunately the weapons.

Considering Orcs are almost always shown to be stronger than humans, I imagine big heavy warhammers, mauls, and poleaxes would be a major pick for orcs on the battlefield. Also, consider, if Orcs are stronger and hardier, their armor would probably be thicker and more durable than regular human made platemail.

Orcs would definitely be using chainmail

@@kounurasaka5590 Orcs aren't actually stronger in LotR, just more fierce and aggressive.

Alternatively, I might specialize in fighting lighter opponents (similar armor, ditch the spear for sword and shield) and accept that my plan for stuff like trolls is run faster than my friends.

Also when the circumstances arise augment your arsenal with what is available in the local armories.

@@seanrea550 Which is exactly what happened in both the books and movies.

@@randlebrowne2048 yep

@@michaelmurdock4607 He deflects a knife thrown at him, not a crossbow bolt.

Aragon uses the longsword Anduril after it was forged at the Council or Elrond since it is a part of his heritage. I believe the books do not say he used a longsword before Anduril was forged. The movies takes liberties with this and gives him another sword/longsword before he gets the Anduril. Furthermore, if you're fighting in the woods, then a long sword might not be the best good option since it could be snagged by vegetation.

@@Intranetusa in the book he carries the broken sword around, which I always found strange. At least when he met Frodo, he shows him the broken blade.

@@Intranetusa in the books he is using a bastard sword before, a 1.5 hander - that's how I remember it from my childhood :) and now I am using one myself because of him. Later he is using Anduril which is way bigger not that handy.

Actually, he does have the luxury of carrying other weapons, depending what he was against. And that is the key here, he knew the mission Gandalf gave him, which was to escort the hobbits to Rivendell (i.e. help them avoid battle, and if caught in one help them to get away - fighting was the last of the last resort). So he geared up for this mission (bow, longsword and dagger, all easy to wear/carry without calling attention, make little noise while transported this way; little metal armor makes less noise, shines less, weighs less so faster walking, drains less energy while moving), and why he showed up alone (fewer people = faster movement, harder to track/follow, harder to detect, needs less supplies, etc.). Same applies later to the fellowship. If it was a more usual situation, he was his people's chieftain already even before being king, he would have a posse well supplied and prepared for the fight instead, but for this one fighting was the opposite of what he was supposed to do.

Well Gondor is decended from a line of demi god humans, the numenorians who were very wealthy and powerful and lived hundreds of years. So it is not far fetched that the decendents of said ubermench humans should have full armories at the ready which were accumulated over time.

@@thesuperjohn57 The Gondorians were, effectively, descendants of Atlantis (the island nation of Numenor).

@@randlebrowne2048 and also functionally the equivalent of Byzantium (eastern remnant of a much larger empire, now much reduced and beset by enemies, but still powerful, and able to call in a multi-national coalition of allies).

You can't fight evil if you ain't cute.

How useless they were amused me. They were like stormtroopers. Useless fighters in useless armour. There portrayal was my least favourite part of those films.

The differences were more in making magic swords that didn't rust or could cut metal, or in old Gondor's super-hard black 'concrete', not in having had plate armor and polearms in the past.

Also worth considering is that Aragorn is kinda stuck for weapon choice- a choice which was made long ago. Narsil was a longsword, made for use in heavy armour, against orcs. Aragorn doesn't weild Narsil himself until it is reforged into Anduril, but in the mean time, it just makes sense that he uses the same type of weapon so that when the time comes, he's not awful with a longsword.

Except he magic doesn't do much, its not like their swords cleave through armour or are lighter or sharper. They can hurt some creature normal weapons don't and glow when orcs are around. They don't really do more in a fight than a normal weapon.

@@spamhonx56 I think book Aragorn carries the broken Narsil and no other sword?

@@bacul165 Correct, at least when we first meet him in The Prancing Pony. Considering his history campaigning in Gondor under another name he must have wielded something else at some point, but when we see him at first all he has are the shards.

@@bacul165 yes, in the books, but this video is about the films.

Gondor armouries : we have perfected the full-plate system. In old-money it's "Armour Class 0" Newbie : but my face is exposed for the close-up shots. Gondor armouries : don't worry, your face has PLOT armour

But Pippin, Faramir, and Denethor himself wear mail. Surely the Steward and his son would wear the best available. Plate is wrong.

"Harness" in that sense is just a term for arms and armor in general, like "panoply".

@@skyintatters well he describes characters specifically in shining maile and other in shining harness. Prince Imrahil specifically has a plated vanbrace and you have yet to retort to this. In my opinion if Tolkein meant maile he would have not said harness. Denethor is not dressed for battle, maile can be worn under civillian dress whilst generally plate(excluding purpose designed stuff) can't really be concealed so easily. I did say the soldery of Gondor had maile, the citadel guard have maile, and that includes Pipin. What's more Faramir wore no armour when he was acting in a light infantry role in Ithilia. He raced back to West Osligath in time for the battle there, he'd have time to throw a maile shirt pn, but probably not be clad in harness, if he had his own harness stored in the armoury there(but i suspect it would have been in Miras Tirinth as Sauron's attack was caught Gondor not completely ready in its ford defences.)

​@@rileyernst9086 "harness" just means kit, basically. And since the armor most often specified is mail, then it must be mail. Rohan bought or traded its mail from Gondor, if plate was available they would get that, yet they use mail. The elites use mail, they would use plate if they had it.

@@skyintatters Your argument is not really compelling and is completely lacking in context, for example why might the Rohirim not adopt plate armour? Their thing is covering vast distances as swiftly as possible and being battle ready after a long day's ride. Wearing more weight in armour on the march means neither man nor beast will be battle ready after a long day's ride, and they will be slowed somewhat as well. Alternatively they could rely on a baggage train to carry the armour but it will be really slow. Gondor and especially her nobility really does not have these issues. Hell if you wanted to shoehorn Tolkeins fantasy world into the real world, which is a tempting idea but is still imperfect, the best candidate for Gondor would be the Eastern Roman empire. So yeah shining harness could be shoehorned to mean the encompassing laminated armour of the Kataphractoii, but its a bit of a stretch, Imrahil still has a vambrace of a single large steel plate(or it could be a full on hinged cannon), which would mean that logically, they can make large ish singular plates of steel, that can be polished to a satisfying shining silver with no unsightly inclusions etc. In other words: 14 century plate armour technology at least.

They are not. At least one contingent of Gondorian army (from Lossarnah) is armed with axes, and some groups of Easterlings also used them (in the books, at least).

I think it was a movie choice. Woodelves actually preferred axes

The Orcs, Uruks and Rohan riders all use axes as well

I wouldn't call you "pedantic", but rather "highly interested in Matt's lexicon".

@@dimitrovtesla7685 I love Matt. And I greatly love JRRT. Hence, my comment.

@@squashedeyeball It's clickbait. I don't think Matt is trying to convey some deeper meaning about the ownership of intellectual property.

@@dimitrovtesla7685 Me neither.

Also he just was seeing how many he could fit upon himself. Going anywhere with that set up would have been hell.

@@adambielen8996 Especially entering a tavern 😀

@@chabis Sir, tavern policy is that you leave your weapons at the door.

@@adambielen8996 May take some time

For a ranger, a messer would be even better combined with a longbow. Of course, Aragorn being the lost heir to the throne of Gondor means that the long sword is more of a literary device to foreshadow his true lineage.

But Aragon is 87 at the beginning of the Books, he has spent most of his adult life hunting the servants of Sauron, and ruled for 122 years after the defeat of Sauron. He is not regular human, he also has been educated by the elves of Rivendale. It is not a far stretch to say that his reflexes and combat abilities are to a degree super human, this would explane why he can trust on his reflexes scirmishing with Orks and a long sword ist an effective weapon for hin. He doesn't need the same protection as a more sluggish baseline human.

Yeah, he must be built like superman, he even goes for a cross-country run wearing chainmail and all his equipment.

@@stepheningermany Dwarves aren't really designed for cross-country. More a natural sprinter!

Narsil was made by a dwarf smith of the First Age named Telchar of Nogrod. It gets broken by Sauron when he kills Elendil, and much later reforged by the Noldorin smiths of Rivendell for Aragorn.

It’s still uncomfortable to wear and gets cold in winter/hot in summer. There’s a reason why armies started abandoning armour when the protection is no longer worth trading comfortable clothing for.

What about just a breastplate or a mail byrnie? Minimal enough to be light, but enough protection to possibly make the difference between life and death.

brigandine still doesn't breathe worth a damn. I mean, on a personal level I could see something like maille, or brig plus selective metal plates such as gauntlets/ bracers being fairly reasonable if I knew I was going through a high risk ambush place, but the idea of climbing a mountain, or wading through a swamp in high humidity in brig sounds like torture.

Brigandine is just many small plates under fabric, it's not really lighter than plate.

They still weigh. A 15kg hauberk maybe more comfortable to wear than a plate cuirass but by the end of the day, it's still the same 15kg.

Orc soldiers tend to be decently armored, though.

note that the rank and file iron hill dwarves that Dain led, march and fought in relatively full armour!

It's not just cinema. It's just the products we buy. If we could restrain ourselves then it would take only a flop or two for filmmakers to start to do things differently.

There's nothing wrong with over the top fantasy designs. They're fun too.

@@HamsterPants522 **rebellion and devil sword dante intensifies**

Welcome to Lake Laogai

Its just a bad fan fiction

Yeah, that is an obscene amount of gear to carry. Particularly if you are also carrying all your supplies for long distance travel.

I mean, with the right incentive and planning you can carry a lot of gear. Marius's mules in Roman history being a good example. Scutum, pilum, armor, part of a tent, and several days rations. However that's as a part of a very formal and organized system, not an ad hoc adventuring band.

When I played D&D there was some max carry stat, that was essentially what you could deadlift. It was an obscene amount to even hold, let alone travel. I don't remember any penalty for holding over time/ distance, so everyone was just fully encumbered at all times.

@@JebeckyGranjola It is called encumbrance , It is typically based on Strength.

@shinjofox Thanks. Looking it up encumbrance is less than your total carrying capacity (as I incorrectly thought it was equal), and does give penalties. But it's based on static multiplier thresholds, and not effected by anything else. So at 20 str the first threshold is X5= 100lbs, thus you could carry 99lbs at all times with no penalty. Maybe that's realistic? Oh yeah and

Yeah, Tolkien's orcs and goblins are mostly a threat because they tend to vastly outbreed humans, and other races, allowing for much bigger armies.

@@randlebrowne2048 Also they have high morale when a Dark Lord is mentally backing them. They don't surrender, and break formation with difficulty.

I wish he'd talked about that. I should think that longsword and quarterstaff would be one of the worst combinations. Why is Gandalf even using a sword in the first place? He should just keep it as a backup.

Good point.

Nord VPN is the wrong technology for the world I live in ! Try Express !

I only thought about it just now. The idea that a nobleman like Aragorn carried a sword makes perfect sense. That's also emphasized during the disarming outside the Golden Hall. However. The idea that a ranger carried a sword makes no sense for anyone who's spent more than a day out in the woods or walked ultra long distances off-trail. Think about it for a second and a sword makes no sense. Your goal 99.9% of the time is to walk: A sword attracts attention, when he doesn't want that. It's big. It's heavy. It has barely any use during the roughly 1000 miles the fellowship lasted, and then there are better alternatives for a journey. You also need to eat and carry more food to compensate for dead weight, slowing you down further. The magic for me is that Tolkien can make a great story, and as an outdoorsy person, I've failed to pay attention to a sword-armed ranger hitherto. :'D ha ha ha. He's truly a master of his craft.

@@willek1335 Yup. It’s not meant to make sense on that level so much as it’s meant to make sense Archetypally.

@@willek1335 A sword is just 2-3 pounds, and this isn't a pleasure hike; he needs *some* weapon, because enemies exist. The point of the Rangers is to *find* enemies and keep them from the Shire and Bree. So what weapon would you bring? "No weapon" is the wrong answer.

Sam kills an orc in Moria: "Boromir and Aragorn slew many. When thirteen had fallen the rest fled shrieking, leaving the defenders unharmed, except for Sam who had a scratch along the scalp. A quick duck had saved him; and he had felled his orc: a sturdy thrust with his Barrow-blade." And Frodo doesn't do anything thief-like, that was Bilbo. He does attack a troll.

Orcs were twisted, withered Elves, Goblins were twisted, withered half Humans. So both would be smaller than their counterparts, Uruk-hai were half human, half Orc and tougher but not larger than a man, but equally as cunning and twice as cruel.

@@littlekong7685 I always looked at Goblins as separate from Orcs, but I remember at least in the Hobbit the two terms were used interchangeably...at least in my personal cannon, they are different from Orcs

Also Sam and Frodo passed for small orcs in Mordor.

@@littlekong7685 To Tolkien, 'orc' and 'goblin' were *entirely* synonymous. Your "orcs are elves, goblins are humans" has no basis in the text.

@@mindstalk oh yeah, very small orcs and yeah Goblins are definately orcs, but in the text usually the smaller orcs got called Goblins (like the ones Biblo and the dwarves dealt with); so if Goblins came from man, they'd be about Uruk sized instead

You may be onto something there

He was a ranger and Tolkien defined rangers as carrying bows in most instances.

It is mentioned that he survived hunting game, and could collect game if the Hobbits spied any from afar. Implies a bow or a sling at least, and a knife to process the food with. He does use a knife to collect herbs at one point, but a knife would generally be seen as a tool not a true weapon in most senses of the word (not the same as a dedicated battle dagger).

@@alistairgrey5089 yes he was a ranger but the OP is quite to correct to state that the book explicitly says he carried no weapon but Andúril after leaving Rivendell. "Aragorn had Andúril but no other weapon, and he went forth clad only in rusty green and brown, as a Ranger of the wilderness." Interestingly another thing said at that point is, "Boromir had a long sword, in fashion like Andúril ...." So Andúril is specifically referred to as a "long sword", as is Boromir's sword. So portraying it as an arming sword would be directly contradicting the book.

@@davidpnewton Does it say longsword, or long sword? Because an arming sword on the larger side could be a long sword.

@@Ninjamanhammer stop splitting hairs. In the context of the quote it is quite clear what is being referred to.

Plate armor only exists in those movies as a stylistic direction. In the source material, the level of technology is very clearly early medieval. So there are no firearms.

War elefants were seen as such, but later people managed to deal with them. Also, fellowship are bunch of super-humans.

This is correct. Middle-earth and Númenor reached the zenith of its technology in the Second Age. The Elves reached there’s even earlier. It was a constant theme of the Lord of the Rings that building and weapons had been so much better in the ancient days.

​@@cammoblammo Sure, but thinking that Gondor didn't have steel is entirely unreasonable, and it's certainly not in the books. I mean, normal steel would be a step down anyway. In the first age elves were fighting Morgoth, multiple Balrogs and Dragons, sometimes even in single combat. Especially the knights of Dol Amroth are very clearly medieval knights in armor. "And last and proudest, Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth..., with gilded banners bearing his token of the Ship and the Silver Swan, and a company of knights in full harness riding grey horses; and behind them seven hundreds of men at arms, tall as lords, grey-eyed, dark-haired, singing as they came." We also know that Denethor had chain mail under his coat to keep himself fit. When asked what the Rohirrim looked like in a letter, Tolkien wrote the following answer: "'The styles of the Bayeux Tapestry (made in England) fit them well enough, if one remembers that the kind of tennis-nets [the] soldiers seem to have on are only a clumsy conventional sign for chainmail of small rings." Historically, chain mail was also never made from anything but iron or steel. I really doubt Tolkien envisioned armor not being steel.

@@slome815 Oh, sure. I’m not sure where the other guy got the idea that Gondor didn’t use steel. My point was simply that late Third Age Gondor wasn’t as advanced technologically as Númenor was. One really minor point: Narsil was made in the First Age. Those shards Aragorn carried around were well over 6000 years old!

@@cammoblammo You are right, I already deleted that part of the comment before you posted your reply. I assumed because it came from numenor it was 2nd age. But right after I posted it I started doubting if there was actually information in any of Tolkiens work on the history of Narsil, and I looked it up and it was indeed made by Telchar in the first age. I didn't know that, it's in the unfinished tales apparently. I tend to only remember things from LOTR and the Silmarilion.

Don't put too much weight into the magic aspect because you will not find much magic in the form of D&D-like damage spells in Tolkiens world. in fact there's only 1 occasion mentioned in either the Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings where actual battle magic is even mentioned at all (Gandalf in The Hobbit when he comes to the rescue in the Goblin settlement - he mentions that he killed one or two goblisn with a lightning bolt). Magic usually has more of a support role - like covering the sky in clouds and dimming the light to allow the Orcs and Goblins to operate on full strength (and not accidentily killing any Rock Trolls with sunlight) what is what Sauron did during the battle of Minas Tirith. This is for sure powerfull, however not really directly affecting combat.

What a piss poor f-ing argument, as always. You realise how many of you make this same logically bankrupt argument? I think that's a clue to stfu already and let the grown ups speak, god damn. "I mean, it's fiction, so nothing has to make sense" get out. Leave and never speak out on culture topics ever again.

Why do you bigot fashy boys always have anime profile pictures?

The Hobbit (for all it's flaws) included specialized weapons for larger enemies, like scorpions to kill dragons and repeating weapons mounted on chariots to kill ogres and trolls

The assumption makes sense to me, thousands of years have passed in real history and pre history, and we have fought creatures quite similar to what you would call monsters. Mammoths and different races of men for example, Neanderthals and such would have been the competitors to our ancestors. Obviously the technology seems more consistent in tolkeins world than ours but you have magic to bring things together, no need to advance when you have magic that can solve problems. Also one of Saruman and saurons missions is to start an industrial revolution in middle earth, so this is a factor to consider too

@@celticperspective5183 World history doesn't match Silmarillion at all. Certain warfare and technology has existed for way too long to assume the same for the period of LotR. A reason must be provided for an assumption of stagnation.

Yeah, it has _loose_ analogues to Bronze Age Egypt and Byzantium in Gondor, 17th/18th century rural England in the Shire, a not-very-accurate allusion to the Anglo-Saxons in Rohan, and others. It has no solid real world historical analogue, but several 1/3 accurate semi-analogue groups. It is a pan-European fantasy, not medieval fantasy.

The assumption of Frankish tech is quite accurate to the text. You may think it's unrealistic, but it's what Tolkien chose. And in reality, Europe used mail for like 2000 years. With a larger population and more tech growth than Middle-earth.