Are You Due For A Turntable Upgrade? Lets Find Out! 

Sounds good,I'm doing Cd, FM and phono to tape so I can make custom tapes.

cassette tapes are memory emotional thing from growing up for me so I will always buy a tape if it appeals to me - - but my main thing is Vinyl and I do enjoy CDs as great sounding portable solution - and 8 track leer jet tapes ect I like just because they are so weird and you can get some real nice sound out of them - it's a fun format for me was before my time really but I do remember them when I was like 4 years old in the semi-trucks my uncle had.

​@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777You are damned lucky not only to have/find an 8-Trap Flayer that actually works (never mind work: properly😮‍💨), but to find ANY tapes that actually still play! I dabbled with 8-Trash at least 15 years ago; my older brother gave me his entire collection of some 70 tapes, & I miraculously scored a 1970-ish Roberts (Akai...😏) premium machine that not only had FFWD (which plenty of the mostly HORRID 8-Crap machines don't even have; AND ⏪ rewinding a tape is simply NOT POSSIBLE, due to the IDIOTIC construction & nature of the format's "endless loop" cassettes); my chunky high-zoot machine even could ⏺️ RECORD!😲😯😮🤯 Well, for all the good THAT did me! I think 80% of those tapes were no longer playable, despite clean & dry storage throughout their entire 30-odd year lives. No small number of them just let go of their splices during their first playback in over 10 years. Never mind the ones that spilled tape all over the inside of the machine when they wrapped themselves around the (CLEAN!😑) capstan & pinch roller; or the ones that just jammed up & seized, trying their level-best to shred the belts & burn out the motor in my "ultimate" quality Roberts home player/recorder ⏺️.🧐 Then, of the dozen or so that still could (kinda. Sorta.) "play", ¾ of those had SUCKY music; leaving a whopping 3 or 4 cartridges left that were of any interest in listening to. And amongst that pathetic little stack of tapes, NONE of them played without the truly obnoxiously mind-bending amount of WOwÖW!🤪 & flututututter 🤪🫨😵‍💫🤮 that the format is renowned for. And from ALL my recollections of the many & varied machines that I have heard since I was a little kid, even when the machines & tapes were brand new!🤧🫤 Sure, the tape speed is double that of compact cassette. But despite the doubled tape width from ⅛" to ¼", those 8 tracks meant that the actual track width was identical to that of compact cassette. AND there was no high-bias tape formulations ever developed for the format; all 8-Crap tapes were made of THE cheapest & dreariest Ferric Oxide formulations that the RIPOFF record companies could find to stuff into THE cheapest & therefore crappiest housings humanly possible to make! I rememberbember the VERY RARE odd find of "blank" cartridges (probablabedly a mere BUY IT NOW! $5000 each from a reputable dumpster-diving Shyster I MEAN! honest🤥, hard-working 🤥 eBay vendor👹 right now!) that at least would have been of *somewhat* better quality than the MISERABLE pre-recorded GARBAGE 🗑️that UTTERLY dominated the 8-Crap market. So it became abundantly clear to me, & therefore this is my warning to any of you thinking: "This ought to be a fun, easy, cheap, & KÜHL! format for me to get into!"; 8-Trash tapes have ZERO archival properties (just like the fantasy of Open-Reel tapes, which have ALSO shown themselves to be bio-degradable, with a half-life of maybe 15 years. MAYBE.). A tape that still plays today (with the typical hissy wobbliness of some drunken Piss-Tank hand-cranking your capstan for you!) will quite likely NOT play for you the next time you try it even a year later. I'm personally amazed BEYOND BELIEF that there exists even a single "playable"🤪🫨🤪🫨🤪😵‍💫 cartridge left in existence in the entire world today! As for somebody, ANYBODY! claiming to enjoy the sound of 8-Trash cartridges alongside REAL High Fidelity formats from Compact Cassette, to Beta or VHS Hi-Fi, to LP, to Seedy, to Streaming (...down your leg)... Really? REALLY??? 😲😯😮😱

I might add to be concerned about old electronics . It might be better, depending on condition to get as basic as possible, a motor, a platter, and a manual arm.

Can anyone tell about the 2 tonearm turntable what is the purpose of it. Thank you very much like I said, I’m looking at one. S.A.M

Sometimes, they use another Tonearm/cartridge setup for different type of music, and sometimes, it's not a turntable, it's a master cutting bench and they use the regular Tonearm to verify the quality of the cutting they've just done. But most often, it's the first case. I hope it answer your question. English isn't my language, sorry for the bad grammar.

@@MarvinHartmann452 hey brother, that turntable S.A.M Is there a pretty good one?

James Darrin, Goodby Cruel World.

if all turntables were perfect; the cartridges would be the difference

it's half of the equation 100% after proper speed control stability lack of resonance clean circuit. A high quality stylus as it wears doesn't have a different sound it's just a lower dB was it gets closer to the pipe - until the diamond completely loses the shape then the sound does change not just a drop in dB.

I enjoy things differently. I concentrate my money on one cartridge and don't switch, feeling that no matter how many cartridges I might own, one will still be best overall, so spend on only the best cartridge I can afford, since they are consumable, and all use is wear.

That's something I like to try to. A cartridge can make a lot of different.

​@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777The output of a cartridge does NOT decrease as the stylus wears. The output "level" doesn't change at all. But the quality of that output does!

Whoa there, that is already a lot of thinking and deciding.

perfect advice. Although condition is everything with any used article, turntables, especially the better ones, are so simple , it makes sense to invest in used higher quality than what the same money will buy new, given a modicum of care, and an in person inspection, before pulling the trigger on used stuff.

A guy/a store that isn't interested and especially NOT knowledgeable about $2000+ turntables; who doesn't stock any, has no future plans to, & can't see the point to buying one DOES NOT have a "passion" for turntables. OR the highest quality of Audio, PERIOD. Kevin knows what he knows; & that's basically that he likes what he knows, as opposed to actually knowing what he likes...and also as opposed to knowing what's actually good or great sounding. If "good enough" is what you're looking for, or you just plain can't hear any difference between say, a pair of Klipsch Heresy's & Final (brand) electrostatic speakers, then you're watching the right channel & listening to the right guy to help you save your money!🤗

analog has second order harmonics that digital doesn't , and these underlying distortions are what the ear uses to determine aspects of sound, like motion , distance , all kinds of stuff. Digital has different underlying distortions, which some say the ear doesn't process as well, since they are not found in nature. To each his own, they all work.

I like all 3 format, reel to reel, vinyl, and CD, but my favourite is definitely CD, but I know some people think they sound harsh.

I’m a vinyl fanatic but I can assure you that plenty of people have said “remember when we were on that road trip listing to xxxx” and it was streaming. We can love physical formats and still not kid ourselves.

@@HoneyWindbuttonI was being a little sarcastic, Vinyl just touches on more of the senses vs streaming.. You hold it / hear it / drop the needle etc.. Sit down steak dinner vs the drive thru lol both are food.

Not to b forgotten is chilling out at thrift shops antique shops an record stores and maybe discovering a new type of music in an album that has the inner sleeve and NO scratches. Also more going on, taking the time to clean records and the artwork on album covers...

@@MansintheMavea Oh yeah, that's also a great pick. Hope you enjoy it.

@@defcreator187 It's too bad Technics doesn't still make a full auto version. I'm staying away from any vintage turntables although I do still have my old Dual CS5000 which still works. The old Japanese units were some of the best looking ever made I think.

I can pretty much count on my Technics SL-7 being spot on, but not the SL-D2 it's not quartz locked .

Empire made one of the best looking turntables. Built like a tank, it looked like A neighbor of mine had one in the 1970s. Today, he's strictly a streaming guy.

I own a Sansui SR-525 direct drive that my dad bought new in 1974/1975. It has an upgraded ADC VLM Mk 2 cartridge (because in 1985 we moved and as my dad was carrying the 525 into our new house he dropped it on the driveway). There's a chunk out of the rear left corner of the dust cover and he destroyed the original cartridge. His loss is now my gain as he went out asap and purchased the ADC cartridge. I've been pondering delving into an upgrade but I'm still in the research stage of it.😅😅😅

Get a used one with a good track record (no pun intended). Any of the Musical Surroundings Phenomena series are decent. Cambridge Audio are also decent, or if the budget is really tight a ART DJPre2. Big budget, Parasound JC3 (Plus or Junior).

Bought a Toshiba SR- A200 back in 80. Just put in a new stylus...Nov of 23 and started buying vinyl.

That's the reason my most récent sound system is from 1974, and the other one is from 1962. You can't re invent the wheel, especially when the newer wheel is completely broken.

Hi Nick, fancy meeting you here. We seem to move in some of the same circles. 😉 Hopefully I'm getting near the end of my "upgraditis" 😉 Jim 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🙂

@@jimsregaturntableshifijukeboxHey Jim! Always nice bumping into you in the wilds of the interwebs 🔊😊🎶🎄 Merry Christmas 🎁

@@NickP333 Hi Nick, good to hear from you. Merry Christmas to you from Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🎄🎉🎁

Good choice, can be upgraded when funds allow

I have a Technics SL-7 that I fished a cord from a dumpster and it was on the other end ...much to my surprise and delight. I'm using it now will a Stanton 680ee P-mount cartridge. I still like that 680/681 moving iron magical sound stage. My other table a Technics SL-D2 (that will be another dumpster find SL-1200 mark II...it's needs bearing work in the gimbal that I have time for now) with a Stanton 680ee mounted. Using the same genuine low mileage D680 stylus I have a direct comparison. So there is an audible difference. Partly because of the low mass tone arm in the SL-7 getting the most out if the high compliance the 680ee has to offer and it does track the up and down (small warps) better. That's really very slight not always noticeable. What is very noticeable is that last track on a LP were the grove is compressed and tracking at a much lower velocity. So what is noticeable is that that track doesn't have the typical sound degradation experienced there. That mastering engineers kwik its a thing so they have to deal with it in the process. Anyway it's still there and audible. Well that's certainly true for the pivoting tone arm . So here is the difference....I don't notice it with the SL-7. I believe the combination of the grove architecture and the elliptical stylus not tracking perfectly at the tangent is what is actually audible. Squaring up the stylus in that section clearly and significantly reduced it too not noticeable like the engineer intended. I got really lucky that SL-7 is working well and properly moving the tone arm with the tiny steps it's supposed to do. Yeah it just needed new RCA plugs because the cord was tweaked at the ends. That SL-1200 well that will be eventually be equipped with a Stanton 680el/al tracking closer to 4 grams that will work out very nicely for that heavy tone arm as I already know. I just need to find a good replacement stylus for the EL Ii that I have almost used up ,,,l hope there's enough life to keep it for a reference I really liked the sound. It was pretty close to the Steriohedron but a little different in a good way for many of my records and not so good for many others..

​@@stevengagnon4777You're definitely a guy NOT looking to upgrade their "purchases"; you're a guy looking to upgrade their dumpster-diving skills in order to spend no money at all. Happy trails!

@@joerosen5464 thanks got a laugh

I can't see what the suitcase player junkies can get mad about. Maybe they just can't afford a very good Tt and are jealous?

Yeah I agree with you. I love turntable and I have plenty of records, but more often than not, à cd / dvd / blu Ray will sound better to me.

Dude, I have a fully tricked out Fluance RT85. IF you should decide that you want to upgrade, here's the kit list to give you amazing sound quality and a dead silent background. - Get an Ortofon 2M Bronze ASAP. This is 1 of the 2 big difference makers on this journey. I know it's pricey. Get a pre-owned one if you have to. Just. Get One. Pre-owned will set ya back about $325-$350. Look for demo carts from places like Audio Advisor. - Get the Pro-Ject Tube Box S2 phono preamp. This is pricey, but the vacuum tubes really do got their own thang goin'. ...and this could be and WILL BE an endgame phono preamp for a lot of folks. - Get a "Chi-Fi" linear power supply unit for the turntable AND the phono preamp. This is the 2nd huge difference maker on this journey. There are dual output options on Ebay for around $250-$275 shipped (You'll need a dual 18v model). There are sellers w/ thousands of sales & 97% or better positive feedback who specialize in linear power supplies & "DIY" stuff of that nature. This will leave you with a killer sounding phono stage. If you have good power & speakers there ain't no way you'll be disappointed w/ this getup. If you could come stand in the middle of my listening room I'm sure you'd agree. Anyway, this is still a lot of $$$, but it's doable. Especially if you have a job & side hustle and income is stable. ...and even though it is still expensive by most ppl's standards, this upgrade path is dirt cheap in comparison to the next "tier" of turntables/cartridges/phonon preamps. You'd probably have to spend $3,500 to $4,000 to "out-do" the Fluance RT85/Ortofon 2M Bronze/Pro-Ject Tube Box S2 & linear power supply setup I'm suggesting here...

Love that you posted such a detailed set up! Thank you! I saved it so when I do upgrade I have it as reference. I do have a tube phono pre amp, but it's a cheaper one more in the $100 range. My speakers are vintage mid range Sony speakers (in the $200 - $300 area), they sound good, but may be the next thing I upgrade. Receiver is a mid range pioneer.. in the $400 area. I figure next year I will start looking into some better speakers and the cartridge you mentioned would be my upgrade if I decide to do it. I don't know much about power supply's, but I want to do more research and understand it better so I am not blind buying something. thanks again!@@dizzle1119

Plasticky? The dual is fully metal base and a great tonearm

They do. It also dépend on the cartridge you have on it. In my knowledge, there's not many caps in these turntable, maybe it's the wires or a bad ground. But yeah if you compare to more modern stuff, the dual tend to be limited. There's a lot of hype around the brand, but compared with a good Thorens 125 or 160, or a technics SL-1200/ SL-1200 MK2, the later tend to sound better, if you have a good cartridge of course.

Hello, these are the same phono stage that are used in many other marantz model. You can replace some electrolytic coupling capacitor with film ones, and if I remember correctly, there's a clipping adjustment on certain models, but if you replace the capacitor, you're not supposed to have to adujt it. Some also have tantalum capacitors on the input, I know they affect the sound, but some people prefer to keep them, some will replace them with electrolytic non polarised or film capacitor. But as it is, it do it's job and it's neutral. The rest of the pre-amp and amplifier usually do à good job. Vintage Marantz amplifier are usually very dynamic as opposed to let says à yamaha. I've rebuilt and repaired many vintage equipment and usually, that's my opinion on these. I'm a electronic technician with 40 years of experience, maybe I mix up different model but I'm sure of what I'm telling you. Tldr : the phono stage by itself have nothing spécial and do it's job, it's the tone control/amplifier that affect the sound the most, vintage marantz usually have a very warm sound if you compare with newer stuff or vintage yamaha or nad. Edit: These fluance turntable are also very good.

Thanks! I had a total recap done in Rockford, Illinois a couple of years ago. Had I known about Skylabs I would have gone there. I love my Fluance with the Ortofon Blue cartridge. I tested the anti-skate with a blank platter and it needed to be set a lot higher. Tracking force is 1.8g, anti-skate set to 3g. I brought this up to Fluance and they ignored me. Other than that it's a pretty good bang for the buck.

I think a well.made Tt with a Grado Gold3 cart. would be all anyone really needs.

Thank you!

I have different vintage record players. Its all on what your looking for and price point and keep in mind your room as how your setup will run. Where my setup works for me it maynot work for you.

@@semperfi-1918 I also prefer to support my native economy, but my buying criteria is expanded to places where I know the people involved in my for pleasure product have good wages and working conditions. No possibility of slave or oppressed labor, for one thing.

I would venture that you notice the sound quality in different movie house if you attend films. It's really just where one's interest lies. Just because some bodily function has degraded over time, like walking , doesn't mean it is all washed up and useless. I can no longer hear all the test tones on on my test records, but my system sounds much better than when I was young and could hear all the test tones

@@richardelliott8352 I actually don't go to the movies. My post wasn't really about not being able to hear subtle differences. It was about all formats having their own place. Besides, I find it is the equipment that makes the biggest difference in sound quality, rather than the type of source you are feeding it with. I, recently, picked up an old Pioneer SX880, at a garage sale. Before that, everything was being fed through my modern(ish) Pioneer AV receiver. The difference was night and day. Same turntable, same cassette deck, same CD play, and the same speakers. Yet, that old 880 absolutely dominates the newer receiver.

I could be wrong, but I thought all Technics turntables were direct drive and, as such, not in need of belts.

​@@francescotenti193plenty of hundred dollar Technics belt drives were still sold after they started selling direct drive turntable. Before that they were all belt drive.

​@@francescotenti193sorry, not could be, you are definitely wrong. After 45 years I think I know what I have. LOL

My mistake, you are right!@@karaDee2363

human hearing is subjective, so if it sounds right, it is. Or a test record with a tone that would match a common tuning fork pitch might offer peace of mind.

@@richardelliott8352 I tried using a stopwatch to time the song and compared it to the length listed on the album, then adjust the pitch control.

​@@pedrofernandez8729If it's a neon lightbulb, it's relatively easy to replace, they tend to go bad over time, you can find one at any electronic replacement parts dealer. It worth it.

Look no further than the Technics SL 1300, 1600 (suspended version) FULL AUTO. Both are variants of the SL 1200.

With the same construction quality, it will be very hard to get something equivalent, as the other comment suggest, à 1300 would be good enough, but it's a step down in quality.

the poor design & build "quality" of those "suitcase style" turntables leaves no room for any improvements. If yer wanting analog sound on the go, I feel you'd be better served going with cassette tapes .....

Watch Kevin's last April Fool's Day video for upgrade tips.

with a little ingenuity , most things can be improved. the key to turntables is to control all energy that would effect the stylus, and everything vibrates, so it smears the vibrations of the needle at a micro level. Dampen the case , and then see if the arm can be made less resonant, perhaps painting it with plastic dip, something light, just enough to control resonance, there used to be kits sold to improve the arm of direct drive tables, maybe they are still around , or the design principles can be found. energy needs a coherent path away from the needle since it can only change form, not go away. looking into the basic design principles of turntables will give you insight into a starting point . the main platter bearing is critical to performance , as is keeping motor noise away from the platter.

Buy yourself a mp3 player if you're travelling à lot. You will have a better sound than with these portable tt and it's easier to carry.

I also feel that speakers are the voice of the system, and the most fun place to start , but speakers can be nothing more than what the source feeds them, the garbage in, garbage out reality. Building from the source is perhaps more sensible, and just as valid of an approach. I know this after sailing with a guy that carried around a nice real to real in a footlocker trunk. since the full sized tape deck and a few recordings took up most of the room, he could only fit little speakers into the trunk, and they were in plastic ball enclosures , style over performance. but the exceptional high quality of the reel to reel tape and source electronics in the deck made for a very good sound from very marginal speakers .

@@richardelliott8352 I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Even a used $100 Facebook Marketplace AV receiver has very, very little distortion as long as you don't overdrive it, and a $100 Ortofon cartridge has a much better frequency response and much less distortion than pretty much any speaker. A reel to reel tape player is worse than all three, so I'm not sure what I can say about your boat stereo experience. The best way to get rid of distortion and make a difference in the way your audio sounds is to find the speakers that you like first. The answer most certainly isn't to spend $500 on a turntable and $300 on a cartridge. You just won't hear any difference on $200 speakers. However, if you spend oh, say $300 on a Fluance turntable with an Ortofon Red cartridge included and increase your speaker budget from $200 up to $700, you very likely will hear a big difference. You can get some really, really good used speakers for $700.

It depends, as the other person said, garbage in, garbage out. Speakers are very important of course, but the source is as important. If you have a low quality source, you will ear the limitations even more on good Speakers.

​@@MarvinHartmann452 If a receiver puts out 75 WPC from 20-20K with .1 percent harmonic distortion and the cartridge is 10 to 50Khz + or - 1db it's not garbage in, it's close to perfection in. You absolutely, POSITIVELY won't hear the distortion. You can get a used receiver and a brand new turntable/cartridge for $400 total. You could triple that amount and still not hear any difference in distortion in those components. No speaker will even come close to those numbers. There is no doubt.. none, that you will improve your stereo by spending more money on speakers than on your receiver/turntable/cartridge combination. If someone spends $500 to $1,500 for a turntable, it's either because they don't understand how the sound is produced or because they think the more expensive turntable looks better.