Are You Still Postmil? | Doug Wilson 

So does this pretrib premil guy

So what does it mean to "adhere" in this case? Does it change your behavior somehow?

@@davidz9741 Oh yeah 100% it's not as encouraging to go into the world knowing you are going to lose. But Jesus is winning the nations back and because Jesus has authority in heaven and on earth I can know that we will succeed when evangelizing the world. It has really impacted the way I share the gospel and the way I think about the kingdom of God! Does that answer your question? I used the word adhere as to display me choosing an eschatological for some time based on what I was convicted of scripture. I bought Doug's "when the main comes around" and it was really helpful and as of right now I am Postmill. I could definitely see myself being Amill. 1 Thess is tough with Postmill. I still have more to learn. Even more than changing behavior knowing the kingdom of God continues to change my heart!

@@horrificpleasantry9474 I hope so! All forms of eschatology believe that Jesus wins. I wasn't trying to say that, I know you have much hope as I do brother! I have just learned more about what I think biblically the nature of that victory that Jesus secured on the cross looks like. It isn't an earthly kingdom sometime in the future but the gospel is a transformative force in the world NOW. I think premil people would agree with that but how it looks and plays out is completely different. The premil position is inherently pessimistic in the church age which is what I disagree with at the end of the day. Love you Brother!

@@Rotilda1 I think you're guilty of what you think I am. Is it not possible for God to be victorious without the church becoming the primary influence or earthly power in the world? Because the idea that God can't win unless conditions in the world look a certain way, that seems to be what postmils characterize premils as doing but are doing themselves

Found you!

Doug also said once that "stupidity never works" :)

Exactly. I can’t take anything seriously he says, but I respect him. He has a lot of explaining to do when the AntiChrist establishes himself here real soon.

I felt that way at one point... now I’m Postmil 😂 The harmony between Old Testament promises looking forward to the new covenant and Postmil eschatology is pretty amazing. Also, it seems like there is a more consistent interpretation method between normal theology and eschatology which I appreciate. Growing up Premil I always felt like there was a way to interpret most of scripture but then eschatology was an area all off on its own that was completely different.

@@UnlimitedMercy yea I mean I respect post mill and I think at the end of the day it’s hard to pin down one view since Scripture can be pretty open-ended. However for me, I can’t reconcile the post mill hinging idea that the thousand year reign of Christ is not needed because the Church advances the restoration of the state of the world through the preaching of the Gospel. The world is only getting darker and darker, even after all the ground early Church fathers and movements made in centuries past. There are less people claiming Christ, not more. The world is only getting more evil, not less. If we depend on the church to save the day we’re in trouble bc we are still humans and often times look like the world. We can’t even keep our divorce rates better than the world. Additionally, I refuse to submit to the idea that the Church and national Israel are synonymous. No thanks.

@@JD-rx2kh The darkness we see in our world was honestly one of the biggest hurdles for me too. I like the way Doug describes it, the churches progress through history is less like a rocket and more like climbing the Rockies, you’re going to go up and down sometimes move along the mountain sideways but your overall trajectory is toward the peak. Also, the Postmil position is that we are IN the thousand year reign of Christ - the 1000 years being symbolic for an extremely long period of time. It’s more of an Amil position to say it’s not necessary. With regard to the church and Israel I would say Paul is pretty clear when He says that not all Israel is truly Israel but the sons of promise. And in a different spot he says we (the church) belong to the Israel from above. Essentially He’s saying God has one chosen people - believing Israel - the Gentile believers like myself have been grafted into that. Those who reject Yahweh and His messiah were never part of the true, spiritual Israel even if they’re Jewish by birth. Why do you find it so necessary to separate them and have 2 different entities that God works differently in? < I know tone doesn’t come through in text, this is a genuine question, I want to understand why you were so firm on that point.

@@UnlimitedMercy so when I say that post mill believes the thousand year reign of Christ on earth in person is not necessary I mean in the sense that post mill seems to think the church can take care of it therefore it’s not necessary for Christ to come down. I understand the differences between the mills. I’m firm on pre mill bc the Bible uses literal language regarding the millennial reign of Christ. It nowhere says “a really long time,” it says 1,000 years. Also it never says through the church he’ll reign, it says “in Jerusalem.” Basically, post mill takes literal language and makes it figurative to fit their belief system. The same goes for the church and Israel being synonymous. Paul states in Romans that God is not done with national Israel and that the gentiles are wild branches that are grafted in, they’re not the same olive branches which are Israel. Also, Paul asks the question (paraphrased), If God didn’t spare his own people why would he spare the gentile? The context there is the Gentile Christians which are part of the church. Again, it’s taking literal Bible language and making it figurative. The hermeneutics between historical- grammatical (pre mill) and non-literal (post mill) is the biggest hurdle for me.

I became postmil about 6 months ago thanks to the likes of Jeff Durbin and Doug Wilson. Glad to say I’m no longer a dispensational premillenial any longer either haha

@@jacksonobrien3993 I'm not quite there yet, but my mind is now open to it. It's a journey worth taking though.

Three events pointing to Tribulation 2024-2031. 1) The star sign from Revelation 12 out of the bible occurred. (23 Sep 2017) 2) Daniel 69 weeks= 483yrs Ottoman Rebuild (1535-1541) 3) Israel born as a nation in Isaiah 66 occurred. (14 may 1948) All three signs actually happened. In Genesis 41 Joseph lets us know that there will be a 7 year warning before the 7 bad years happen. Rev12 star sign 2017 warning so that is when the 7 year warning starts add 7 years is 2024 when Tribulation starts making 2028 the middle. Daniel 9 Says Jerusalem will be restored in trouble! Under enemy rule counts Ottoman ruler rebuilt 1535-1541 the words for restore and rebuild can be understood as returned and rebuilt start or end. The early date has already passed rules it out for us now so we can use the later date add the 69 weeks aka 483years 1541 + 483 = 2024 Tribulation start! Tribulation is the last week adding up to 490 or the 70th week, 2024 Start + 7 year Tribulation = 2031 End. Psalm90 Is about the nation of Israel nation means people and country. In psalm 90 it says all our(Israel's) days are 70-80 years and then we flee Matt and Daniel in the Bible let us know Israel nation/people flee in the middle of the Tribulation so when they flee it is the middle not the end 1948 add 80 years is 2028 the Middle of the Tribulation. Third Day Pattern If we had realised the pattern of the third day arrival we would have known it was unlikely for Jesus to return before 2030-2033 as his work on the cross was done, the Church was born, and he left for heaven within the years 30-33AD giving a 3-4 year window for error as to his earliest arrival which effectively rules out any time before 2 days aka 2,000yrs are up giving us 2030-2033 as the earliest likely time of Jesus return. Genesis the Sun was created on the fourth day. -Jesus The Son was born into creation on the fourth day, third day from the fall. -Jesus the boy went missing - Found on the 3rd 24hr day. -Jesus the man dead found living on the 3rd 24hr day. One is, Two is a coincidence, Three is a pattern. How does 2 days = 2,000 years? A day is like A thousand years and A thousand years is like A day with God and from God's perspective this is Scale and Ratio like maps have. Below is 1,000 Years as days. 0-1,000 = Day 1 Adam falls 1,000-2,000 = Day 2 2,000-3,000 = Day 3 3,000-4,000 = Day 4 Jesus Arrives 4,000-5,000 = Day 5 5,000-6,000 = Day 6 6,000-7,000 = Day 7 Jesus Returns Tribulation is a harvest so follows the same pattern as a harvest. First fruits- Earthly presentation to God at his temple of the first ripe = 144,000, Made Apostles same way as Paul. (remain in earth to work the harvest, Matthew 9:38 - Luke 10:2) Main body harvest- self explanatory, This is when the main body of the harvest is brought in and placed in a store house = Mid Trib Rapture of the body, Body goes up as or just after Devil and his angels come down. (Fullness of the Gentiles come in, Romans 11:25-26 - Isaiah 59:19-20) Gleanings- This is where the stranger in the land (devil) can come and take what they can from the owner of the harvest's (God) field (earth) once that time is passed the owner can come and collect the remaining remnant. Greek Harpazo just means taken by force, A removal from danger a person is about to be hit by a car and you Harpazo them you seize them from that danger and there is three different types of removal from danger. 1st type Enoch - Classic rapture view taken by God before death. 2nd type Noah - removed into a safe place but surrounded by danger, Ark, Bunkers, hidden in mountains. 3rd type Lot - Last second pushed out of the way of danger flee if you stop you will die. So you might be raptured but might not be raptured to heaven this is true for some and some are not removed from danger at all. I fully accept I can be wrong also, but Let's say I am wrong worse case some disappointment & life goes on but if I am right now you know and less likely to be tricked by the False Christ so really only upside in sharing. Objections: People might leave because you "set a date" - if my words that are unrelated to God's essence, being or salvation could cause people to stop believing in God than they didn't believe to start with. What about those seeking - If a Peron's claim could make them say this proves no God because that person got it wrong than that is an excuse because they never wanted to believe and if it wasn't this it would have been some other excuse. Conclusion: There is only upside in sharing and it is biblically supported Ezekiel 33:6 if you see danger than warn others. Matthew 24:44 Must keep watch for Jesus. Gal 1:10 A servant of Christ seeks God's approval not man's approval. John 13:34 Love one another as Jesus loved us - Jesus suffered, was disliked, he taught, he warned, he sacrificed, he cared and he did it for everyone even those who hated him.

Macarthur, a reformed premillennial, would say that the prophecies are "telescoping," and there's much evidence of this in the OT prophecies: some elements are fulfilled early on while others are separated by hundreds or thousands of years. Then there's also the fact that some so called "fulfilments" are typological. They are not the true and final fulfillment, they are a shadow, or a prelude. For example, the jews living in Israel now are significant, but they're not a fulfillment of any specific prophecy. Political Israel is not the national Israel of the Bible. But it does seem to set up the possibility of future fulfilments which imply that all the Jews are living in Israel.

All prophecy was fulfilled in AD70. That was the only end in sight in the NT.

How do postm justify biblical historians who date the Book of Revelation at early 90’s and claim the prophecy of the destruction of the Temple at 70 A.D.? It saddens me when the majority of postmil just say, “well, it’s what I believe?” Picking and choosing certain interpretations based on “what I believe”, doesn’t fill me with confidence.

@@peterheroux8239 a lot of historians date the book of Revelation pre AD 70

@@danthemede323 ALL?? Micah 4:1-8? Lots of saber-rattling and war in the past 1,952 years…

Are you mil-shaming?

@@justinbrown8036 Oh no, it's beginning ...

@@JonJaeden what is the “mil” stuff

​@@travis6694 Christians debate premillennial, amillennial, and postmillennial eschatology -- shortened to premil, amil, and postmil. Just word play with a few of the crotch crowd's gender identities -- cis, trans and non-binary -- and also the human need to come up with drop-dead-certain categories. I'm intentionally committing blasphemy against their oh-so-serious sexual nonsense. Kidding aside -- and eschatologically speaking -- I lean post-mil, but I've occasionally been known to exhibit mil-fluid tendencies ...

@@travis6694 the Bible teaches Jesus will reign on earth for a "millennium." The pre, a, and post prefixes refer to where in relation to millennium Jesus bodily returns to earth. Premil says Jesus returns and then rules bodily from jerusalem for a thousand years. Postmil says the millennium began at pentecost and we're in it now, conquering and subduing the world for Christ through the church, and after we are victorious through him, he will return to earth and usher in the eternal state (no sin). Amil sees the millennium as allegorical.. The a- means "not," as in, simplistically, there's no millennium. It didn't happen in the past, we're not in it now, and there won't be a literal one in the future. Jesus will return at some point in the future and usher in the eternal state and it's got nothing to do with the political situation on earth at the time.

Doug Wilson is a great man of God, however, he is wrong on this issue. The technology for the mark of the beast currently exists, RFID Chips, and quantum dotting. The global-"elite" desire a global government, and pandemics can be used to phase out paper money, under sanitary pretense. Then credit/debit cards will be made implantable, and mandatory by the antichrist. Our Lord, and Savior told us that no man knows the hour, He, and the Holy Spirit have also warned us about these times. Optimism is false hope. However, there is good news, Christ told us that He will accelerate the times for the sake of the elect.

@Dennis Yen I think that the common denominator that blinds the postmilers is optimism. Most people have an optimism bias, and it can be terrifying to understand how close we are. Your right about everything in your post, but I did not know that tensions between Israel, and Iran are worsening. The only news I follow is Ben Shapiro's free first hour on youtube. And not always. It is very depressing.

@@allisvanity...9161 Of course in Matthew 24, context is king! The days were cut short for the sake of the elect during the tribulation of 70AD. Matthew 24 is talking about the destruction of the temple, which occurred during the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD fulfilling Christ’s words that the generation alive during his ministry did not pass away before “those things” occurred. If you are interested, thebdocumentary “On Earth as it is in Heaven” is a well made and simple introduction in the Postmillennialism that Wilson holds to.

@@mikea.3972 I'll check it out, but Revelation still doesn't give us a timetable. You really should research RFID Chips, and quantum dotting. Revelation 13 takes on immediate relevance with that knowledge. God Bless!

Already own it: great book.

Futurist Postmillennial 😂 lol

@@dallaswalter3047 indeed

Have to agree - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that things are heading in a certain direction. That certain direction just so happens to be sliding along the path of Revelation ;)

@@TheB1nary you may be interested to know that The Matthew 24 stuff like the sun and moon and stars going dark already happened once before Jesus’ birth

@@TheB1nary How many times does it have to slip into the revelations? How far will this generation be expanded? It seems that the premipremillennialism view nonsense is being shaken.

My friend. Have you been out in the nations preaching the gospel making disciples? Do you not see that some of the worlds most powerful nations like China are turning to Jesus on track to being a Christian nation by 2028! How about Iran and Afghanistan? The church is exploding in the midst of persecution! The Lord is on the move all over the earth! I see it myself being a missionary all over the world in particular the Middle East and Asia. In the midst of chaos, God is reconciling the nations and you watch and see what happens on certain places in America. When darkness comes upon America we’re are going to see great revival in the midst of it. Persevere my friend. Keep you me hand on the plow. And starting building the kingdom. And if the world is getting worse, it’s not because evil is overcoming, it’s because the church is passive waiting around rather than being the true church like we see in the 1st century. Go and make disciples my friend teaching the nations to obey. We have a lot of work to do. Let’s get busy my brother!

@@zacharycorral1318 China a Christian nation by 2028? Does that include their government?

@@silversurfer2703 it includes the majority population and God willing yes that would be incredible. Would the lamb receive the nations 💛💛💛

@@silversurfer2703 it includes the majority population and God willing yes that would be incredible. Would the lamb receive the nations 💛💛💛

@@zacharycorral1318 I meant to ask if what you believe is true what about Roman Catholicism? Rome is an apostate church what will become of her ? Will she repent of her false teachings, will she be somehow destroyed?

even people in heaven is hated by people in hell,does it mean the world will never get better even when heaven finally united with earth in the new heaven and earth?

@@ManlyServant IN Matthew 24 Christ explained when the Son of man returns it will be as was the days of Noah. We are the salt of the earth that will slow down the decay but not stop it. Wicked men grow like weeds and the system of the world is in the hands of the wicked one. Job 9:24 the world was given to the wicked.

what is your question? this is the promise of God fulfilled, He will be their God and they will be His people. God will judge the people who ransacked Israel and people of all tongues, tribes, and nations will come to worship God in His chosen city Jerusalem. this is happening today in a sense like Micah 4 as the Church is obeying the Law of God and is making Israel jealous.

@@whotookjimirocket thanks for the reply. How would you explain this verse? This 70AD? Zec 14:2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

@@zacharybeauford2244 curious actually, not 100% sure and i'm going to enjoy studying Zech, Dan, Rev, Thess etc side by side eventually. 14:2 sounds kinda like the 7 year period. it could've been 70 AD but then i've heard from a handful separate sources about the 'already not yet' concept. ch 14 in general seems very close to the ebd to me like Armageddon/1000 year deal. i've not joined pre- or postmil and have just begun to look into eschatology. it's an interesting subject

@@whotookjimirocket I’ve been studying it for a couple years now. I started as a futurist premil but after I started studying for myself I quickly realized that view was untenable. I still have much to learn but certainly am leaning heavily towards partial preterist postmil.

@@whotookjimirocket Excuse me ! This is happening today? Goodness gracious please tell me you do not believe this is actually happening as we speak!

I wonder about that as well; if there is any scholarly category or some such. I suspect it varies by person. I see it primarily as a question about the kingdom and the timing of Christ's return, not about the length of time the kingdom lasts. Thus I always considered the "millennial" part as the least important part; I believe that Christ will return after the fulfillment of the (millennial) kingdom, hence a Post-(millennial) kingdom return of Christ. Fleshing this out in broad strokes, there are two major positions, a Pre-(millennial) kingdom return and a Post-(millennial) kingdom return. The two main theories in each of those camps are Premillennialism and Dispensationalism for the former, and Postmillennialism and amillennialism for the latter. So between A- and Post-, I see it as whether we see the Church as the kingdom of God and believe the promises that God will grow his kingdom not of this world from the tiny pebble it started from to the great mountain that fills all the earth (Postmillennialism), or whether one denies that the Church is God's kingdom and so our human institutions will eventually fail and God needs to bail us out (Amillennialism). There are two groups within Postmillennialism, there those who take the 1000 years literally, and those like me that take it as a literary way of saying "a really long time" or "forever" / "eternal". I think too much is made about the single verse that says the kingdom will exist for 1000 years and see the important bit as the ultimate success or failure of the Church in this world. Thus, in my mind, "optimistic" Amillennialism doesn't exist, that's just Postmillennialism. My friend who calls himself an optimistic Amill attaches more weight to the "millennial" part and it is the literal 1000 years that he is skeptical of (as I am). So I just tell him he's Postmill and he tells me I am optimistic Amill, and we agree to disagree. :) Ultimately it comes down to the semantics of our preferred label.

This question is why I'm still suspicious of postmil, but I'm a premil pretrib in the vein of Macarthur

I think the main difference between Amil of any flavor and Post-Mill is the location of the throne. Amills, if I am getting this right, believe Christ is reigning now from Heaven, but not on Earth. Postmills are more, "All authority in Heaven AND on Earth is mine. Go, therefore..." So, if Christ is reigning right now on Earth as in Heaven, what does this entail about His return? 1 Corinthians 15:23-28 is the passage that turned a 20 year dispensational premil into a postmil. Christ must reign until His enemies are made His footstool. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. After this He returns and "then comes the end, when He delivers up the Kingdom to the Father," in essence fulfilling what the first Adam failed to do. When the end is described as Christ offering up a completed Kingdom to the Father, this leaves little room for a thousand years. In Isaiah 65, it talks of the New Heavens and New Earth as still having age, curse, and death. But we saw in 1 Corinthians 15 that death is defeated, Christ returns, and then comes the end. Postmils, therefore, believe that as the Christian is a New Creation in Christ, progressively coming more and more under Christ's dominion, we also believe the Earth also is a New Creation, progressively coming more and more under Christ's dominion.

Three events pointing to Tribulation 2024-2031. 1) The star sign from Revelation 12 out of the bible occurred. (23 Sep 2017) 2) Daniel 69 weeks= 483yrs Ottoman Rebuild (1535-1541) 3) Israel born as a nation in Isaiah 66 occurred. (14 may 1948) All three signs actually happened. In Genesis 41 Joseph lets us know that there will be a 7 year warning before the 7 bad years happen. Rev12 star sign 2017 warning so that is when the 7 year warning starts add 7 years is 2024 when Tribulation starts making 2028 the middle. Daniel 9 Says Jerusalem will be restored in trouble! Under enemy rule counts Ottoman ruler rebuilt 1535-1541 the words for restore and rebuild can be understood as returned and rebuilt start or end. The early date has already passed rules it out for us now so we can use the later date add the 69 weeks aka 483years 1541 + 483 = 2024 Tribulation start! Tribulation is the last week adding up to 490 or the 70th week, 2024 Start + 7 year Tribulation = 2031 End. Psalm90 Is about the nation of Israel nation means people and country. In psalm 90 it says all our(Israel's) days are 70-80 years and then we flee Matt and Daniel in the Bible let us know Israel nation/people flee in the middle of the Tribulation so when they flee it is the middle not the end 1948 add 80 years is 2028 the Middle of the Tribulation. Third Day Pattern If we had realised the pattern of the third day arrival we would have known it was unlikely for Jesus to return before 2030-2033 as his work on the cross was done, the Church was born, and he left for heaven within the years 30-33AD giving a 3-4 year window for error as to his earliest arrival which effectively rules out any time before 2 days aka 2,000yrs are up giving us 2030-2033 as the earliest likely time of Jesus return. Genesis the Sun was created on the fourth day. -Jesus The Son was born into creation on the fourth day, third day from the fall. -Jesus the boy went missing - Found on the 3rd 24hr day. -Jesus the man dead found living on the 3rd 24hr day. One is, Two is a coincidence, Three is a pattern. How does 2 days = 2,000 years? A day is like A thousand years and A thousand years is like A day with God and from God's perspective this is Scale and Ratio like maps have. Below is 1,000 Years as days. 0-1,000 = Day 1 Adam falls 1,000-2,000 = Day 2 2,000-3,000 = Day 3 3,000-4,000 = Day 4 Jesus Arrives 4,000-5,000 = Day 5 5,000-6,000 = Day 6 6,000-7,000 = Day 7 Jesus Returns Tribulation is a harvest so follows the same pattern as a harvest. First fruits- Earthly presentation to God at his temple of the first ripe = 144,000, Made Apostles same way as Paul. (remain in earth to work the harvest, Matthew 9:38 - Luke 10:2) Main body harvest- self explanatory, This is when the main body of the harvest is brought in and placed in a store house = Mid Trib Rapture of the body, Body goes up as or just after Devil and his angels come down. (Fullness of the Gentiles come in, Romans 11:25-26 - Isaiah 59:19-20) Gleanings- This is where the stranger in the land (devil) can come and take what they can from the owner of the harvest's (God) field (earth) once that time is passed the owner can come and collect the remaining remnant. Greek Harpazo just means taken by force, A removal from danger a person is about to be hit by a car and you Harpazo them you seize them from that danger and there is three different types of removal from danger. 1st type Enoch - Classic rapture view taken by God before death. 2nd type Noah - removed into a safe place but surrounded by danger, Ark, Bunkers, hidden in mountains. 3rd type Lot - Last second pushed out of the way of danger flee if you stop you will die. So you might be raptured but might not be raptured to heaven this is true for some and some are not removed from danger at all. I fully accept I can be wrong also, but Let's say I am wrong worse case some disappointment & life goes on but if I am right now you know and less likely to be tricked by the False Christ so really only upside in sharing. Objections: People might leave because you "set a date" - if my words that are unrelated to God's essence, being or salvation could cause people to stop believing in God than they didn't believe to start with. What about those seeking - If a Peron's claim could make them say this proves no God because that person got it wrong than that is an excuse because they never wanted to believe and if it wasn't this it would have been some other excuse. Conclusion: There is only upside in sharing and it is biblically supported Ezekiel 33:6 if you see danger than warn others. Matthew 24:44 Must keep watch for Jesus. Gal 1:10 A servant of Christ seeks God's approval not man's approval. John 13:34 Love one another as Jesus loved us - Jesus suffered, was disliked, he taught, he warned, he sacrificed, he cared and he did it for everyone even those who hated him.

Post mil is for catholics

It is obviously a rhetorical question and the answer is "yes", so the real question is "why does the Bible ask will He find faith on the earth when He returns if post mill is false?"

@@oracleoftroy Exactly what revelations says will happen

Hi, Willis! Here's a sermon from Doug on 1 Cor 15. Hope this helps! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UjFWffLE9SE.html

Fulfilled in AD70.

@@danthemede323 an honest question…do you take communion in church?

@@willisfletcher6260 no, I'm afraid i dont. That was only applicable until He came. Which, i believe, according to His own words He did.

Sure… from a Certain point of view

@@SWillTiamG there is only one correct point of view

and where is that....?

@@zacharycorral1318 at the beginning of the great tribulation.

I’m not opposed to changing my eschatology midair.

Then you should drop your Star of David logo. The premil view understands that all the promises (covenants) God made with Israel will be fulfilled literally and on earth. To deny that is to deny the Old Testament and the promises to God's chosen people.

@@xapie128 what? I said postmill not premill!!!

@@yayforeals, Exactly. The premil view understands prophecy is all about Israel. The postmil view tries to replace blessings to Israel and gives them to the church. Hold a postmil view if you want, but promoting the star of David is an oxymoron for a postmil view.

​@@xapie128 Yeah... "Replace" in the same way Paul does when he says the promises weren't to an ethnic people but to a spiritual people, a people to whom the natural branches were cut out and wild branches grafted in, per Romans 9-11. The people actually trying to replace snythinh are those premil who deny Paul's clear teaching and try to make those promises a race based things despite how clear Paul and the rest of the OT and NT are.

You either read scripture as Christ is coming and will literally reign on earth for a thousand years, premil or you read scripture to say we are in that thousand years and as time moves toward Christ's return, Christian values will begin to reign in the world and the Christ will return, postmil. And or somewhere between, yet none of it is salvation based meaning all you need to stress is the Gospel. Study and pray about it. Much love friend Jesus Christ is King...is, was and will be!

Postmil is wrong premil is right

@@GojoTheHonoredOne9 care to elaborate?

pre-mil is basically a system created by ignorance of scripture and history.

@@rayortiz6189 LOL ignorance of history? you need to get your church *history* knowledge up and learn that historic premil has been held by multiple church fathers.

I always understood it as satan and the original fallen angels were the ones roaming around on earth but in the 2nd heaven. I didn’t know people thought satan was bound as of now?

@@tyc4587 Unfortunately yeah, both postmil and amil believe that.

The fact that demonic possession/oppression is still taking place should be enough of an alert to both amill and postmill. Honestly, i dont doubt that satan would love it if christians thought he wasnt a problem. Sounds like a deception to me.

The mustard seed got me

Premil is the way👌🏽

@@GojoTheHonoredOne9 Yeah, that’s what I thought for most of my 45 years of life... until I read through the entire Bible last year and got hung up in the prophets, asking God to help me understand the purpose of these books for me and anyone else who has existed in the last 2000 years... especially if their warnings were intended only for one generation of a very unclear, unspecified time period as I’d always been taught. And I came to realize, in spite of what I had heard my whole life, but could never make any sense of, all those prophets were warning Israel to repent or receive her just rewards. She never did. She rejected her Messiah, and continued pursuing salvation through the Law, apart from Christ, outside of His grace. And she got everything God said she would get - judgment and destruction. Exactly like the prophets and Jesus foretold (“this generation shall not pass...” 70AD - utter devastation - old things are passed away!) Exactly what historians of the first century witnessed and recorded. Exactly as John the Revelator recapitulated for the Church - “things which must shortly take place!”

@@randgclark well said.👍🏻

@@GojoTheHonoredOne9 The way of false teachings.

I would honestly say the modern postmillennialism is almost exactly the same as Augustinian amillennialism. It's really a matter of optimism, which seems to be found in Augustine, Calvin, etc. In many ways, I think the differentiation at this point is rather odd, considering that modern postmillennials (besides the optimism) hold to a very different form of eschatology than the Puritans, who were historicists, holding to a thousand year period in the future. Amillennialism is definitely the orthodox view and the view held by almost all postmillennialists today, with the only major difference being a matter of optimism.

@@merecatholicity In my thinking, the totalitarian example of the city Munster in the 16th century gives me pause on optimistic views.

Gotta remember who writes the history books for public school students

@Dennis Yen correct. I know. That is a difficult position to hold.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Ys6_Th7rvW0.html This is another video from Doug Wilson with a brief explanation of Postmillenialism. I’ve come to believe that it is the most consistent way to interpret old and New Testament prophecy. I grew up Dispensational Premil and struggled with the inconsistency in the way biblical interpretation was practiced. It seemed there was a disconnect between normal interpretation and prophecy. I want to interpret the Bible in a consistent manner and I see the Postmil position doing that.

@Dennis Yen Postmil says the “end times” was the end of the age, the age of Old Testament Judaism. It is a partial preterist position meaning the beast of revelation was the Roman Empire and the Harlot was 1st century Israel, the social gospel is definitely not what reformed Postmil pastors preach. They preach salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. I highly recommend the video link I posted previously. It is a very concise explanation of Postmil eschatology and actually explains the natural interpretation of scripture verses a wooden overly literal interpretation. That isn’t “spiritualization” it’s taking the text as it’s presented. When Jesus says he’s the Door we don’t look for a doorknob...

@Dennis Yen To be clear, I don’t believe the great tribulation is yet future but it is a description of the destruction of the temple and the city of Jerusalem in 70ad. It was future to Jesus in Matt 24 and future to John as he wrote the book of Revelation but it is past to us.

@Dennis Yen Rick Warren is also not a reformed preacher. I don’t know the groups Joel’s Army or Latter Rain that last one sounds like New Apostolic Reformation type stuff to me. Just to clarify, when I say Postmil or Postmillenial I’m not talking about Seven Mountains Theology or anything like that. I’m talking classical, historic, Postmillenialism. I do believe we’re in the millennial reign of Christ now and it will be fully consummated at the last day when He returns and defeats the last enemy which is death. I take Him at His word when He says, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me...” He has been given all authority on earth, not just in heaven.

Wha? How do other religions converse about whether Christ will return before or after the consummation of his kingdom?

@@oracleoftroy this is where my having no idea what pre or post mill comes in. I just meant the part about God reminding us that He controls the world by shaking up our complacency. As to the other question, Judaism at least has different views on what will happen before the Messiah comes and if the Messiah can sooner through our action and what those actions might be (doing more mitsvot or moving to Israel en masse, establishing a state, and perhaps even rebuilding temple).

@Travis F the Bible teaches Jesus will reign on earth for a "millennium." The pre, a, and post prefixes refer to where in relation to millennium Jesus bodily returns to earth. Premil says Jesus returns and then rules bodily from jerusalem for a thousand years. Postmil says the millennium began at pentecost and we're in it now, conquering and subduing the world for Christ through the church, and after we are victorious through him, he will return to earth and usher in the eternal state (no sin). Amil sees the millennium as allegorical.. The a- means "not," as in, simplistically, there's no millennium. It didn't happen in the past, we're not in it now, and there won't be a literal one in the future. Jesus will return at some point in the future and usher in the eternal state and it's got nothing to do with the political situation on earth at the time.

@@horrificpleasantry9474 Thanks! Ours is 6,000 years since Creation. But can come earlier depending on our actions. Followed by 1,000 years of "Sabbath." Unclear what that means exactly seeing as we can't cook on the Sabbath. ;)

@@davidz9741 my easy answer is that it's a wrong belief. But actually it wouldn't be wrong - I have to be fair - because it calls it a sabbath. Because in the OT every 7th and 50th year was supposed to be a sabbath year/year of jubilee where the israelites were not to plant any crops, and in years of jubilee were to return land to the tribe of original settlement in canaan. But the reason why a 1000 year sabbath rest for the land has to be wrong, then, is that the 70 year babylonian captivity was already a sabbath for the land. The israelites had not observed the sabbaths, so God gave the land rest by removing the Jews for the time they had not observed the practice, as a catch-up. Since there have not been 1,000/8*50 = ~6,000 years of unobserved sabbaths, which is longer than the israelites could ever have been in canaan. The whole point of WHY God would enforce a sabbath on the land does not make sense with the expectation of a 1,000 year one. I'd like to recommend the online article "the impossible faith" on the website "tektonics," for a thorough argument for how we in the 21st century, without needing access to obscure historical documents or artifacts, can know that Jesus was resurrected. This is the crux of the entire faith, no pun intended. It's worth it to know the strongest version of an opposing position. Hopefully it will also change your mind. But at least it will be important knowledge.

He goes, but sends the Spirit. He says to pray that his kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven. It’s really not about the transition to the new heavens and earth not being troubled, which is located at Zachariah 14 and Rev. 20:9-15. It will be troubled, but that comes after the present age, in which Israel is renewed unto Christ and has peace (Ezk. 38). Jesus won’t come until Israel says blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord (Mat 23:38, Acts 3:19). Things have to look up before they look down.

@@gusshredney1491, very true. His kingdom is not of this world, but it has been sent into this world. We do not fight according to the means of this world, outside in, but inside out. As Paul says we are ambassadors, but the conflict is in this world for the pulling down of principalities and powers. To say “his kingdom is not of this world” without also saying “may his kingdom come” in this world, is to hold his kingdom too far off. It is here, in our hearts and between our hands.

But that’s consistently how the language in used in the prophets.

@@TheDareD3vil well in Revelations it talks about the sun scorching the Earth. Just think about that for a minute. Interpreted literally could be very terrifying. In the Book of Luke it talks about men's hearts failing them for fear. It may be symbolism but its symbolism of something very terrifying.

It is one of the three main millennial positions. Postmillenial means that one (as I do) believes that we are in the millennial reign of Christ right now and that His second coming is after the Millennium. Most people nowadays are premillenials meaning they believe Jesus’s second coming will be before a literal thousand year earthly reign of Christ. These positions come from Revelation 20 and are quite complicated. However they are super interesting! I encourage you to study all the eschatological positions objectively. Doug Wilson and Jeff durbin are great teachers and explain postmillenialism very well. I’d also encourage you to watch the RU-vid documentary “on earth as it is in heaven”. It describes postmil very well.

@@jacksonobrien3993 thank you so much , so clear and concise. I love Jeff Durban too. Thanks though, ima read up on 20 Rev

@@mountainmover.s of course! God bless you!

@Caleb P I didn't say that Christ reigning now through the Church is symbolic. He is literally reigning now through the Church. I said the passage in revelation is symbolic of that fact. Just like Satan isn't literally bound with chains(the chains are symbolic) but he is prevented now from deceiving the nations, which is literal.

Victoria Koerber When the millennium starts Satan will be bound and thrown into a bottomless pit for 1000 years. He will be released for a short time to gather an army to go to war against Christ one last time at the battle if Armageddon. Then he will be thrown into Hell forever .

How does this point to postmil? I’m clueless on all of this.

Huh? How does this point to postmil?

That is the great commission, nothing about that passage says or even eludes to Jesus saying "establish 99.9% of the kingdom of heaven on earth, then ill come back and finish up the rest." Post millenialsim doesn't work for the simple fact that man is SINFUL AND WICKED! and sinful and wicked men will never succeed in establishing heaven on earth. ONLY God can do that. Pist millenialism almost sounds like a "if we work REALLY HARD well finally make this place clean and Holy enough for God to come dwell with us" type of eschatology. It focuses on man doing rather than God doing.

Is it better to do meaningless things that don't actually help to show virtue no one would notice otherwise, or to actually focus on things that help? Masks might help if we all used N95 masks and never ever ever touched them, but no one, absolutely no one actually properly follows the procedures when wearing a mask. So they collect lot of bacteria on the mask which they are constantly touching to adjust, getting a concentrated dose on their hands which they then use to touch everything else. That's in part why the data between states and countries that did and did not impose a mask mandate are within the margin of error of difference in terms of effectiveness. More people should be interested in following the actual data than demanding we do meaningless gestures to pretend to have virtue while we hurt people socially, economically, and a host of other deadlier ways.

We've all seen the well meaning guy with his mask under his nose or covering only their chins but that's not the majority. Results from willingly mask wearing countries is much better than those who are more reluctant. While we should investigate questions of how well a solution, such as wearing masks, works we should also be willing to deal with the results. www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent provides a good discussion of the testing and benefits. While it's possible that the nasal tests only work in the lab and that reduced infection rates in various countries that started wearing masks were due to coincidence it's not the most likely explanation. In the meantime the best evidence we have is that (on average) wearing a mask helps me a little and people around me a lot. I can do this little thing for my neighbor. Soldiers and civilians did it in the Spanish Flu epidemic and it helped then. Today we have better masks.

The rapture was in AD70. That shipped sailed nearly 2000 years ago.

@@danthemede323 …oh! Do you really believe that? 😮 Where, at that date, were people snatched away?

@@madwhitehare3635 i wasn't there to observe it but the NT is clear as to when it occurred. Historical sources recorded supernatural events occuring around Judea at that time. See Josephus and Tacitus for details.

_"There are people faithfully sat under the teaching of the bible who are trying to sit under its authority and get things wrong in their understanding (all Christians to a greater or lesser extent)."_ Yeah, so? They got this wrong; big deal. And they are free to say Postmill got this wrong. As Christians, can we please stop acting like the world and getting offended by every little thing? Sheesh! Learn to disagree in love instead of demanding that everyone else hide their opinions if you disagree with it.

@@oracleoftroy Sorry, were you offended by what I said there? ...😉

@@oracleoftroy Not meant with any lack of love brother but it seems to me that you’re doing exactly the thing that you’re trying to rebuke me for. If it’s wrong for me to criticise their stated position why is it ok for you to criticise mine?

@@iknowyourerightbut4986 I know, it seems like a lot of people are offering postmil due to being reactionary towards weird IFBs or pentecostals who happen to be premil. But their argumentation is like Catholic argumentation against protestantism -- not valid

@@iknowyourerightbut4986 You seem to miss that you are the one holding to a standard that says disagreement with others should not happen. I think we can disagree in love and not take offense over disagreement, hence why there is obviously no contradiction on my part for rebuking you. Trying to impute your position on me is dishonest. I explicitly said both sides are free to call out each other where they think they got is wrong. Why are you pretending like I didn't?

Yet the first will be last and since I'm last I'm technically first!

@@aqqibabs 🤣🤣🤜🏾🤛🏾☄🙌🏽

The last hear confirmed pre mil for me. The world is clearly being set for the AntiChrist and the mark of the Beast system is so obvious with the threat of no buying selling or trading without the vaccine. I bet five years from now this video will not have aged very well.

@@JD-rx2kh vaccine shows no indication that is the mark of the beast. People will know when they get the mark of the beast.

@@travis6694 I agree, I never said it was the mark of the beast. The mark doesn’t come until after the anti christ arrives, dies, and comes back to life according to Revelation. In fact, it’s why people take the mark bc it’s worship of the fact that he’s a “god.” Obv this hasn’t happened yet. But there’s no denying the technology and mindset and conditioning is here via COVID

Many states no longer have operating child sacrifice centers. I’d say things have gotten better.

We're in satans little season..

Full preterism is not true. The resurrection of the dead has not happened yet. 1 Corinthians 15:25-26 state that Christ must reign until all his enemies are put under His feet and that the last enemy Christ defeats is death. There are still enemies in the kingdom and people are still dying, therefore the full subduing of Christ’s enemies by the great commission and the resurrection of the dead have not happened yet. Therefore full preterism cannot be true. Partial preterism is, however, true.

Neither will this channel

We're in satans little season..

It's easy to be postmillennial when you read scripture in its historical and cultural context. ;)

@@merecatholicity yeah because this generation didn't mean this generation that is now past , but keeps getting expanded into the future.

@@merecatholicity How so? History is firm evidence that we are globally heading into the moral sewer.

@@keithwilson6060 You seem to have a narrow view of history. And beyond that, what does scripture say of the ultimate outcome of history? I find it hard to believe that the sin of Adam will have a more profound impact than the finished work of Christ.

@@merecatholicity the ultimate outcome of history we agree upon. You just think the ultimate outcome happened centuries ago. What does that make us, chopped liver? The coming millennial reign of Christ will be physical, universally conspicuous even to the heathen, irresistible through his rod-of-iron rule, and evidenced by the RESURRECTION of ALL the saints.

There’s almost no evidence to that. All extra biblical demonstrates that it was written in 60’sAD

@@diegovalleperez3360 The majority, by far, of historians and scholars believe revelation was written between 90-90 AD.

I’ve seen the majority of the evidence of the 90’s, is not persuasive. There’s more evidence to 60’s AD.

@@diegovalleperez3360 Again, the majority of historians and scholars date the book of revelation between 90-96 AD. You can disagree all you want that still doesn't change the fact of what historians and scholars hold to.

@John Trevett Ok, and? Like I said theres a lot of and even more evidence to 60’s AD. Historians and scholars are not perfect, they have failed multiple times. So I will stand with the majority of the evidence. The book was written in 60’s AD.

The finality of the word of God has been complete: God is not or has not given any new revelation to anyone after His divine word has been solidified.

Also Jesus was the last hope of salvation, man failed the first, second, third, etc. Jesus did not and would not give the last hope to another human, turn your eye on Jesus and not a person for salavtion.

@@godsson491 I meant to add... This is not a new revelation .. we know Christ will come again.. this is simply Jesus telling us to prepare for that event.. as Paul says,, we are not to be in the dark.. not to be taken unawares....

@@bluecollarapologetics1473 I think you misread what I wrote..... She is the messenger .. the prophet.. as Jesus calls her his secretary and told her to wrote down what he wanted to say.. This has Full Approval of the Holy see, the highest authority in Christendom. It is the last call to mankind to turn towards the Mercy of Jesus.. as he said, woe to those who refuse this time of Mercy they will face my Just wrath... I'm just the messenger buddy do what you want with the message. most true prophets get rejected anyway..

@@sevenswords8781 Yes Christ, Paul and the rest of the Apostles warned and foretold what will happen in the future and those were the final revelations of God, not a nun 1000's of yrs later....there is no need

They already happened. That was a divine judgement to Jerusalem.

@@diegovalleperez3360 explain how the last Trumpet happened already

@QKVCS I’m not postmil, I’m amillennial. When the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed Jesus prophecy in Matthew 24 got fulfilled. In 70 AD the second covenant and the millennial kingdom officially started. That is what Revelations 11:19 tells us. Now he is reigning with the saints in heaven over the nations. As for us we are living the church era, preaching the gospel and the victory of Jesus in the cross and that is what Revelations 20 says.

@@diegovalleperez3360 thats not an answer to my question nor are you going by Scripture AT ALL

@QKVCS What? You’re futuristic. There is zero indications in the Bible that the book of Revelations is futuristic. When the book starts with that all things in the book will should happen soon. That soon in greek is τάχει, which means that literally will happen soon, with speed. Why Jesus was in a hurry to give copies of the book of Revelations to the churches of Asia minor, if the book of Revelations is futuristic? The signs that Jesus gave to the destruction of Jerusalem are the same signs that John gave (the seven seals) You asked for the seven trumpet, and that is the answer. The seven trumpet is not Jesus second coming and the consummation of all.

Err, Cessationists don't deny the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, FYI.