Can you do a video on why french early tank development was so troubled with all the different oscillating turret tanks going nowhere with just the amx 13 to show for it until 1972s AMX-30?
I do like your conclusion that it kept the French tank industry intact. But at the time when you look at the ARL 44 vs say the Soviet T54 MBT or British Centurion Mk3 and American M47/M48 Patton tanks coming into service the ARL44 is not going to last long on a battlefield. Its gun being its only real grace hence why it would have been alocated to the Tank destroyer role. Over all a great vid and analysis on this tank.
There is an aspect of its design process that goes beyond the battlefield itself: designing and testing this tank was itself an act of resistance. It gave French tank designers a feeling of being able to contribute to the liberation, something they must have desperately needed from a morale standpoint.
Except no they really didn't. It was done in secret and it was pretty much just an impractical pipedream and wishful thinking. The only real benefit was that it got French heavy industry back into the capacity to produce armor, but the product itself was useless and took resources away from more practical development.
@@obsidianjane4413there were no « more practical developments » at the time. It is true this tank was ordered to help restart the industry, but it diverted nothing.
@@chefchaudard3580 You think it was free? And there were many other parallel AFV programs at the time the ARL started to actually be built, AMX-13 etc. French tank development in the 50s was a strange time where they spend a ridiculous amount of money and effort reinventing the wheel from 10 years previously, instead of leaping to the state of the art.
@@Sh3ll00 really? I have whichever the 3.7 AB one is unlocked but i got a gift premium destroyer for French bluewater. To this end, France has become my main naval country instead of tanks. But after reading this comment ill try their heavy tanks out again
interesting fact, the armor of the turret of the second ARL-44 prototype was made with armored plates scavenged from the battleship Dunkerque that has been scutteled in 1942 in Toulon the spirit of a battleship was living in this tank, but to my knowledged there is no certitude concerning what has happened to that prototype
I'm French, this tank was created with a view to transition, the tank doctrine, it has never known combat, the only model still in circulation is exhibited at the Tank Museum in Somur, for the others it was dismantled for the AMX 50 project.
This is genuinely probably the coolest looking and most heavy-metal designed tanks of all time. With a gun so big it needs to be retracted, armor made out of a battleship and the engine of its sworn enemy, the ARL-44 has no equal. I absolutely adore it.
It does look straight out of Warhammer 40k. So in the heavy metal looking department I agree. Yet the M103 looks better, and probably the only good looking American tank. Is3 is also crazy.
Fun fact not mentioned in the video, Both variants had an mechanical assisting loader. With the 90mm having a shell pusher. When reading documents back years ago, the 90mm variant demanded a fire rate equal or superior to the king tiger and succeeded.
@@ItsRainyInFrance It's even funnier with the 75mm variant, That one is the same as the 75mm from the sherman, but it uses a over pressure round for increase velocity. Somehow reload 2.5 seconds slower than the sherman WITH an assist loader in the turret.
It needed the mechanical assistance to achieve the same ROF, the shells were about 50% heavier and 40% longer than the King Tigers shells with about the same penetrative capability. Because of the larger size the ARL 44 carried only 37 shells to a King Tigers 86!
I really don’t know what it is, but I absolutely love the general design layout of the ARL, M60, and the King Tiger, it just screams “tank” to me. It’s tall, the hull is basically a brick with enough sloping for sufficient protection, the massive cannon and the large, lengthened turret to make room for the recoil and the bustle ammo rack; it all comes together to make just a really mean looking machine.
The French really did a great job, kickstarting a production of HEAVY tanks while under nazi occupation. It took nazis over 8 years to start their production of their first real heavy tank (Tiger 1), and they weren´t even occupied at that time.
French have an experience to build a heavy tank, while German still figuring how to make heavy breakthrough tank before Sd.Kfz. 181. Really, really big difference
The French did have experience building Heavy Tanks for years before the Fall of France in 1940. From the St. Chamond to the B1 ter., France pretty much always had a Heavy Tank that they developed. On the other hand, the Nazis only had a fledgling armor corps, and had only recently resumed armor development in the 1930s. Their only real Heavy Tank project previously was the K-Wagen, and even then only 2 incomplete hulls were built from that. They had to basically start from scratch to develop the Tiger I while the French had 2 1/2 decades of experience developing armor to draw from when designing the ARL.
@@SaraHeartlin The St. Chamond is a Heavy Tank. You can call them landships if you like, but for all intents and purposes, they are tanks. They were also some of the first and were developed independently of the Mk. I of WWI Fame, and were not, in fact, inspired by other designs. The Char 2C, D2, and B1 (bis and ter) were also developed independently by the French themselves, and had no inspirations outside other French designs. They were also Heavy Tanks. The ARL-44 was the natural evolution of French Heavy Tank development, and work had started on it before the Tiger I even left the prototype stage. While foreign designs did inspire the ARL as we know it today, its desire certainly was not dictated by those inspirations. At its heart it still follows French Armor design to the core.
It's also quite noteworthy in World of Tanks for some players too, because; 1) One of its final setups is historical production version with no fantasy/experimental part in it. (90 mm gun) 2) It handles getting up-tiered better than most Heavy Tanks in that game because said 90 mm gun can punch through most enemy tanks two-tier higher using standard AP rounds when others of the same tier has to resort to pulling out their wallet and shoot premium rounds. 3) It's a tech tree tank, not a premium, means everyone can grind for it without spending a cent. It's rare to get a tank with all 3 qualities considering the state of that game today.
The ARL44 was the French tank design attempting to continue forward while they were under German occupation. It was a dead end design because they were attempting evolve the Char B2...which was obsolete in 1940...in 1944 when they were liberated, proceeding forward with an obsolete design.
B2 was cancelled since 1935. If you are referring to the B1 Bis (named B2 by the Germans), it's not quite right either as the ARL-44 has much more in common with the B1 Ter and B40.
Look, it may not be pretty, it may not be reliable and it may not be fast, but it at least had one thing going for it... it allowed French workers to gain practical experience on the metallurgy, engineering and ergonomics needed for the development of (reasonably) modern armored vehicles in a time where that wouldn't have otherwise been possible
Not really. The video is kind of misleading. They did not build any armored vehicles (for France) while under occupation. They had engineering work that had application, but you have to stretch the truth to say it was directly related to the ARL. You can draft paper tanks all day long but that doesn't matter. Luckily the French heavy industry needed to build tanks survived the war largely intact because the Germans coopted it and it was only a 5 year break in production. They were able to resume production and the fact that they chose a funky outdated design really didn't help.
The ARL-44 is not just a transitional tank. it is a tank designed under occupation that helped France catapult itself into one of the world's primary arms and armour suppliers. It wasn't the best tank but the lessons learned would help shape future developments. It is an exercise into the French resistance mentality and overall helped them in the long run. It also looks bloody awesome.
@@ConeOfArc I thought I recognized you especially the voice but I wasn’t 100% so I didn’t scream out (IT’S ConeOfArc!!! )was good to see you and good luck on the projects and I love the channel.
CONE OF ARC!!!! I was at the Ontario Tank Museum when you visited for the Aquino weekend. I was hoping to meet you but sadly was not able to find you after the demo. I was really cool to share the same space though, been listening to you for ages now. Hope to have another chance to bump into you. Please keep up the great content!
Post-war welfare program for the French tank industry. I've always loved the overall design of the tank with the way it combines pre-war solutions with wartime experiences. It looks almost like something from an alternate reality. It's rare for such designs to reach prototype stage, let alone serial production.
Some times I get worn out of War Thunder and this wacky vehicles is the thing that prevents me from quitting for good, with a special mention for the ARL
Made fun of it in WoT, due to how poor the armor is, got one for free during an event in christmas, and decided to 3 mark it, I succeeded and found out it was fun, love it, the 90mm pens everything on its tier and above, the only real drawback is the turret armor, as for speed, I gave mine the experimental turbo, zooming in at 41km/h.
I really like the ARL-44, so unusual yet unique sad that the IRL counterpart is bad but would probably be still be great to use if its had saw combat with the 90mm gun
There's literally a French King Tiger where in the 50s the French and Germans teamed together and were like we got this King Tiger with an oscillating autoloading turret bro. And also literally rubber tyres for road wheels for some reason.
A good dissertation, thank you and also thanks to those resources you mentioned in the video who went such a long way to creating the quality product you provided.
I think it's a great tank to be honest, not terrible even though it was outdated, but it's most important feature was as a learning process. Working on this project is a reason why Fran didn't have to spend 10-15 years re-learning how to build armor, and their tanks of the 60s and 70s were quite good
As a MASSIVE fan of this tank design in both history and fiction, always personally refering to it as the "Tiger Hunter", the design is the "default" when I imagine a tank shilouette.
ARL44 has a special place in my heart. Not for a very good reason though: only because I played an absolute ton of World of Tanks circa 2014 or so, and the French was the first nation I played extensively. The three tanks I remember the most from that game have to be the BDR G1 B, the ARL 44, and the AMX 50 100.
I agree with your assertion that this was more than just an AFV but a project to develop an industry capability and the complex technical and logistical skills needed.
I like the Arl44, but the post war tank i love the most is the Amx 50 Surbaissé, this thing could penetrate an IS3 at 2km only using solid shot AP, and featured a very efficient autoloader for a 120mm (we are in 1949). It had it's flaws of course like the lack of armor and it's massive size, but i believe it's still an engineering beast, saddly the project was stoped when heat and heatfs became a thing, the need for big guns to penetrate big armors wasnt much of a thing anymore, tho one amx 50 surbaissé remains at the French tank museum at Somur, in fact it's right next to it's brother the Arl 44.
building a tank during the occupation with limited ressources and delayed due to unfortunate situation, it's far my favorite tank above anything. yes he lacks alot of things and were already obselete but it was built with hope to stay independent in producing our own armement even from today
Proves the insane difficulty in design and production of weapons of war. Really explains why the US and USSR were the drivers of weapon development. The expense the testing the Cost shows there is not much room for developing weapons of war.
A non-insignificant amount of people, me included, seem to think that way, so I wonder what exactly makes it so appealing. To me it's the overall proportions and the suspension design. The tank is both imposing and unusual while still keeping a well-known layout.
I saw one at the Musée des Blindés de Saumur and it's a beautiful and gigantic beast, almost as huge as the AMX-50 displayed nearby Edit : I can't write
IMO they should have tried to design a light tank.Cheaper,faster to develop,usually more reliable,their factories were made for lower weight classes and they could have even sold the thing complete to the germans instead of trying to disguise it. Making something that can compete with M26 and T-54 is hard,but beating the Pz 38t is doable even with limited resources.
Impressive that the french managed to design a tank under the Germans noses. And I bet the Germans helped fund it with the snow blower that the french tank designers used as a test bed for the suppression 😂. I wise there was more book available in English about french tanks.
That call of war ad is kinda funny to me because my recent match i was playing france and conquered the entire map by myself because my allies stopped playing
It's interesting that they used a retractable main gun as a solution to prevent damage to the turret mechanisms, because Krupp proposed the same solution to prevent damage to optics & elevation mechanisms for their 12.8cm L/66 proposed Jagdtiger. In this case, WaPruf-6 rejected the design primarily do to the fact that this feature prevented the vehicle from being a viable tank destroyer because it couldn't be deployed into combat quickly.
"No one copies the French and the French copy no one." Well... The first part is certainly true, and in this case, for damn good reason. Though considering the examples of other armour available at this time, the fact they went ahead and built this is a meme more than anything. If anything captured Panthers had a longer service life in the French army than the ARL-44. And that's saying a lot.
"What if the Germans didn't know the French were testing components for tanks?" I mean it's not like the Germans had experience trying to test "not-for-tanks" components in say the 1920s-early 30s
Hey look the opening is our Museum. Canadian Tank Museum in Oshawa, Ontario. We have the largest collection of running historical military vehicles in North America.
Amazing video as usual Cone! I was wondering if you could talk about that B40 project cause it is a real enigma, there is practicaly no info on it. Apparently a single prototype as been buit, but it disappeared before the end of the war.
The Tanks Encyclopedia article on it is pretty much the most you will be able to find as currently the only source for this tank specifically (and used by the article) is a postwar review of the tank by the ARL lead engineer who oversaw the project. There seems to have been confusion over time between its prototype (never built) and that of the preseries B1 Ter of which we have the picture of the hull. I'm hoping to find more in the archives late this year (there is a file on the ongoing projects in 1939-40), but don't get your hopes up too much.
I played this tank a lot when I was still playing WoT. I wanted to like it. I kinda like it anyway, but at the end of the day in WoT at least, it was not a great choice. Thanks for making this video.
I haven't tried them in WT but they are somewhat troublesome to deal with if you do not know where to hit them.. great video cone, I like your approach to explaining why this tank sucks unlike that other youtuber who makes videos and only points out the negatives..
Even if it was not a great tank, as its short and unsuccessful service demonstrated, I find it looks awesome. The Arl-44 seems a prehistoric predator. And it is the thing most close to a real life Leman Russ. This is clear only for Warhammer 40k players like me.
Ah yes, the heavy tank that was made under occupation, built during a reccession in a country not capable of building heavy tanks or tanks in general. Even yet, it became reality in a time when the first or second generation MBTs started to appear French are truly a different kind😅
Both were or the same prewar heavy, infantry tank thinking. The Churchill was developed and refined when it was facing Panzer IIIs and IVs. The ARL when it was facing T-10s and ATGMs. You notice that the British had the sense to not put the Black Prince into production.
I now perceive it as almost a Black Prince analogue but with B1 Ter/B40 roots, as it retains the same principle of massively enlarging the turret ring of a tank with envelopping tracks to carry a very heavy armament (with the same constraints).
Technicaly, the "french king tiger" is more the AMX M4 1949 project ; directly inspired by the Tiger-II. The ARL-44 (redesigned post-war) is more like a "we-dont-have-national-tanks-so-we-need-to-build-tanks-to-show-the-world-we-still-can" tank, a tank that exist just because France needed to build tanks to show its allies french industry still can build some. The orders where pretty stranges, something like "the mobility of a sherman, the speed of a t-34 and the strenght of a tiger-i" or something like that...i don't remember where i readed or heard this. This tank shouldn't had existed but it did anyway because it was necessary. Cursed design for the hull, more like a 30s/1940 B1 tank, but anyway...it's beautiful, not very good, not incredible, but it looks handsome/awsome.
without ARL44 we wouldnt have Somua SM, AMX50 then AMX 30 series and in end leclerc series. ARL kept French tank industry going. ARL was joke compared to its contemprories but current Leclerc isnt and I thank ARL for that. and we are seeing this in recent times as well. look at Arjjun , it is considered joke but thanks to that India is making Zorawar series.
it reminds me of the otan 51 helmet and some other french equipment just post ww2. clearly copied from other similar equipment (ie the m1 in the case of the otan 51), but changed a bit to add a french flair.
I kinda get the whole. "Hey look we're designing a tank despite all the hardship..." etc but there comes a point where someone needed to take a step back and say...nope! I do realise this is the French we're talking about and an independent arms industry has always been considered to be essential but I think its very short service life says all that needs saying about the design.
Could you make a video about the Marmot-Herrington MTLS-1 (I hope I said that name correctly) I find it a strange and curious tank, just like the M2A2 with two turrets each with a commodity, or the M2 medium with a 37 mm cannon and seven 30-caliber machine guns, or the M1 with its machine gun turret . But MTLS-1 caught my attention more, it would be nice to see other videos about the M2 or M2A2, great video and thank you 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷.
The ACL variant in WT is one of the most infuriating pieces of garbage in the game. "Ooh, French Heavy. Finally something with thick armour to shrug off Panther shells!" - Nope. "Oh, okay, but at least you've got a really powerful gun?" - Also no. . . "🤨"
