And that bar wasnt reached by many even until now. 🤘👹❤ Totally agree. Its kinda sad to see.. Im 26 and without my father bringing that music near to my heart and soul as a kid i would be lost these days. Especially after the loss of one of the only modern musicians i truly loved, Mac Miller 🙏❤
Ginger idolized Art. This was probably the moment of a lifetime for Ginger. I love the way they interpreted each others statements and answered in kind. There is some real heavy communication going on here. Too many drummers work on having great hands which is important but great hands means nothing without great ears. I love both of these guys so the "winner" here is me and anyone else who gets to listen to this...
according to ginger they never met before this... could you fucking imagine playing in front of one of your heros? Not only that but actually keeping up with them and eventually playing WITH him and only him as well as gaining their respect? Gets me emotional seeing pure heaven on gingers face there at the end, you can tell he's having one of the most important moments in his life.
Your comment is so yummy I could sprinkle some powdered GINGER on it, give it a nice finishing touch like a fine work of ART and just gobble it down 😂😂😂
I used to think Baker's solos where a bit straight, caveman-like. Now I think he is trying to replicate African styles. From this point of view I think his solos make more sense. Art is soo good here. It appears to me that he is going off his comfort zone to match Ginger's style and this results in something quite special
And ,ironically enough, that more organic element/ "African "village to village" is what seperates Baker from the rock herd .But Ginger utilized orthodox, military ,precise stick work which many of his idols, or contemporaries is more known for..he could do it all-whatever the musical context /cue from what was going on around him.
Art seemed impressed with Ginger's independence. Ginger seemed impressed with Art's power. It's a little like each of them wanted to show the other the aspects of their playing that would prove the could truck in the other's circle. Very cool to see.
I never realized just how good Baker was until I saw Beware of Baker. I knew he was good in Cream and very innovative, but then to see him battle against the jazz giants just blew me away.
you are , largely correct. But when the 'match" taping was over, the press wanted Ginger & Elvin to embrace for a promo shot..Ginger said ok , but Elvin said " just don't make it look TOO friendly "@@aleleeinnaleleeinn9110
dude when i heard this on a night in tunisia i lost my mind edit: im trying to learn a night in tunisia on drums and i wanna learn that part. but holy shit.. its actually extremely difficult
That was outstanding, Art looked like he was giving no quarter there during the trade-offs, but you could see their mutual respect for one another during the end of film drum duet.
These two virtuous drummers were masters and an apprentices of each others even though Ginger was heavily influenced by Art but man i can tell Art is very “swung” by Ginger’s feel and his orchestral playing as well as his jazz chops! Geniuses at drums and both are so incredibly humble of each other’s gifts Love this treasure of a film!
There's footage of Ginger Baker in tears telling how much it meant to him to be recognized by those legendary jazz drummers as being one of their own. That meant so much more to him that anything else. You can see it here, the way Art nods at him going "Oh yeah, this boy KNOWS his shit!"
Both Art and Ginger had a great respect for each other's talent. Ginger admired art tremendously, great show.those of us who enjoyed this video are the real winner's!
I think Art's not used to being challenged. I think he's used to being top dog in the world he lives in and I think Ginger really gave him a run for his money. I've got all the Jazz Messenger cd's and I've never heard Art play better than here.
Disagree… but I respect the opinion. Ginger baker was a fantastic drummer. And got better the longer he was playing. But art Blakey was on a different level of drumming
For those of you who like to criticize one way or the other, look at interviews with Ginger Baker--speaking as an old man, he remembers these so-called "drum battles" with obvious emotion--he makes clear his deep respect for the great drummers that participated in these events with him, and cites these men's influence and friendship as an important part of his life. All this from a man known for his, shall we say, irascibility. RU-vid viewers may not be able to learn drumming from Ginger, but we could learn something from his open-minded, big-hearted attitude in this respect (obviously not in certain other aspects of his life, in which he would clearly not be much of a role model!)
I'm not a huge Ginger Baker fan, but you have to credit him for showing up. All these drum battles are Ginger vs Legend X. Give it up to the guy who met the challenge.
Palmer has a big mouth too, and I've seen him perform live, 2 1/2 hours worth from a distance of 25ft. He's very, very good, but Baker is my favorite hands down.
Too many comments to read through, but I love that just two minutes in, and you can see how much these guys are watching and *listening* to each other.
If you realy want to know what makes Ginger so versatile and outstanding, particular if you are a drummer yourself watch his: MASTER DRUM TECHNIQUE! It's published in 3 parts on RU-vid. And even if you are not a drummer this will turn you on! But if you are, your view of your instrument will change. It's a total eye opener! Ginger takes european rudiments, then puts them into african timings and plays them over the whole kit. He's like a one man percussion ensemble!
Wow! Wow! Wow! Two super drummers playing together. Playing magnificently, marvelous, with talent, style and rhythm. We just can't get it better. I really enjoy it. Some comments are funny, they miss the point.
I remember hearing about this drum battle...cause im so damn old....but this is the first time that I ever watched it ..very cool...Ginger sounded much better than I originally thought...Art is certainly one of my all time favorite Jazz drummers... R Tullius...KJT
Inconsistent recording quality but a timeless one, so we do have this for posterity! They both have a great sense of humor in their exchanges that adds such a good feel.
Answer no2: None of these guys "brought Ginger up". They all knew about him. His Solos "Do what you like" and "Toad" had made him known all over the drummers world! He had made history by re-defining drumming. He is one of the few drummers who is constantly playing with all 4 limbs, using hi-hi hat as a time keeper, and thus has an immaculate timing. Over that he plays patterns adopted from the african talking drums, so he combines ancient thousand years old drumming with modern Jazz and Rock!
Jesus guys. Can't we express our opinions without the name calling? Everybody is not going to agree. We all rank drummers by their style, technique, musicality, type of music , showmanship and our individual standards. Even our favorites don't always give outstanding performances. We are all drummers or at least appreciate drumming. Let's keep it civil.
Art was just a force of nature, even though he was getting up there in years at the time of this video. I could always tell when it was Art whenever I heard that hi-hat. Too bad there's no video of the duo Baker did with Elvin Jones.
@@parallaxcontinuum7898 - It was videoed, but never released, apart from the clip on 'Beware of Mr. Baker', but you can get it on audio CD (I have it...)
This is probably from one of their drum battles. Ginger alone among rock drummers fought drum battles against the top jazz drummers of the era and was judged the winner by the youthful audiences. As a jazz buff I might have judged differently but the very fact that he took these guys on shows that Ginger was King of the Rock Drummers in his day.
Phil Barker Ginger was originally a jazz drummer I guess but what he is known for is his work with Cream. Ginger is not what you would call soft-spoken but I love the guy. I only wish they could do something for his health.
avalanche344 You don't know what you're talking about. You're fixated with a non entity. By the way if I lashed out you would know about it. Now get back in your pram fuckwit.
like how Art has a look like "yeah sup, Ginger,you do your thing... I don't care I am going to be over here just doing my thing"..all with a smoke in the mouth
Now I understand why Ginger really didn't think much of John Bonham. Never really had heard Ginger play other than with Cream. Pretty impressive. Neil Peart and Ginger Baker would have been fun to watch together also.
My father is a good jazz drummer.Big fan of Elvin Jones and Art Blake.He considers Bonham a great drummer.He was impressed with Bonzo's playing on Houses of the Holy album.Now as a role model....
John Bonham was the better drummer and there's no question about it. How many drummer polls Has Ginger outranked Bonzo in ?. Bonham had a lot of respect for Ginger Baker and I believe cited him as an influence somewhere. Baker wad known to have been an irascible and cantankerous individual. About that Bonzo couldn't 'swing a bag of shit' or something like that remark..we don't know what the context was exactly for that comment (maybe you do). I wouldn't give it too much credibility. Bonham had Ginger in almost all categories except for maybe what he did up top on the cymbals; Ginger was better at that possibly. John made comments that he wasn't much for cymbals and preferred the sound of drums... Who knows but all you need to do really is look at the body of work and John come back John comes out way ahead.
@@JoeSmith-ev2bg As if popularity polls were a criterion for excellence. In the end, it's not who's "best," there is no "best," there's only who you like.
The ultimate drumming showoff...with two awesome drummers! Jazz drummer ART BLAKEY,and rock drummer GINGER BAKER (though,he too,dabbled in jazz,before and after,CREAM!). This is like a rare treat for music aficionados,everywhere!
***** >*"What Jazz where are the albums what albums"* Ginger Baker's Jazz and Afro albums: Live! Fela Ransome-Kuti and The Africa'70 with Ginger Baker (1970 Afrobeat) Stratavarious Polydor (1972 Afro Jazz) From Humble Oranges CDG (1983 Afro Jazz) Horses & Trees Celluloid (1986 Afro Jazz) No Material live album ITM (1987 Afro Jazz) Middle Passage Axiom (1990 Afro Jazz) Unseen Rain with Jens Johansson and Jonas Hellborg, Day Eight (1992 Jazz) Going Back Home Atlantic (1994 Jazz) Falling off the roof Atlantic (1995 Jazz) Ginger Baker's Energy ITM (1995 Jazz) Coward of the County Atlantic (1999 Jazz) African Force ITM (2001 African) African Force: Palanquin's Pole Synergie (2006 African) Why! (Jazz 2014) These are the ones AFTER Cream... he was on several before Cream which could be described as Jazz-Rock (Graham Bond's Organization) and Jazz (Don Rendell). There are at least 20 other albums which are mostly in the 'Rock' category, but some of the compilation albums have Jazz tracks on them.
You can really hear the African influence with Ginger. Art Blakey is so tech it's insane. The difference between both players and their styles is incredible. I wonder what Blakey thought of Ginger's playing...
Read Ginger's book "Hellraiser"! I also read an article in a german drummers magazine, many years ago, where Art commented on Ginger's great playing and his friendship with him. Unfortunately after moving houses 5 times, I haven't got that one anymore. You realy should understand that Ginger has played Jazz, Rock, Worldmusic throughout his life, and at the moment has a band called Jazz Confusion! He is a multi talent and is highly regarded in the Jazz, Rock and Afro Beat world!
Just an update : Art was fully competent in many, many drum:’/ percussion techniques - appreciated why Ginger (Pete) was in awe of him. Sheer style accompanied all the years of hard work, practice that went into the mix. My brother was an excellent drummer, gifted from infant years on - so I’ve insight into ‘practice time’ Love this video & Ginger facially expressing his love & respect of Art, the man. God , look after them Jane Russell
I have been an Art Blakey fan for a long time. All though I have been a Rock fan most of my life I never really listened to Ginger Baker much. Art probably thought he was going to school Ginger and did not! Ginger definitely held his own and I thought at times even bettered Art. Remember I am a Blakey fan and this is the first time I have heard Ginger play like this or this video. I have new found respect for Ginger now. It took me long enough!
You have to bear in mind that Ginger might've been higher than heaven. Listen to Cream's "Born Under a Bad Sign" for some complex drumming inside a straight blues song.
Ginger and Art are both great players and Ginger was actually very much into the jazz and blues genre during his run with Cream. He studied mainly blended rock and jazz techniques and played so well. Art was more on the other hand, a drummer that studied African rhythms and blended them with jazz bebop techniques 😮
Hi Rador. I think it's a common mistake for young people to want to become a "jazz drummer", or "rock drummer"! A drummer should be a musician and therefore he should listen to as many different kinds of music as possible. One day I shared a practicing room wit a guitarist who played in a "grunge rock" band, and was amazed to see him playing transcriped paganini violin patitures on the guitar. A real musician uses the experiences of many different kinds of music! Categorisation is limitation!
It must have been frustrating as hell for Ginger to constantly hear himself be compared to the rock drummers of his time when there was no comparison. Perhaps frustrating enough to justify some well-earned boasting!
I'm with Philtones. Why is there any judging here? Why bring up the name of another drummer? It only opens the door to drop a dozen names of world-class drummers, all with a tremendous style of their own. I think Ginger and Art played off each other and it made both of them better. If I had to choose, I'd pick Ginger's playing in the early 1990's. He had matured a lot; he seemed happier and the music he was playing (IMHO) had more substance. As for Art, his discography speaks for itself. To think that Art's first instrument was the piano --- and he transitioned to being such an amazing student and performer on drums is a great story of artistic versatility and accomplishment. According to Art (in a 1982 interview I recorded with him at the Winter Park Jazz Festival in Colorado) his first live performance as a drummer was pure baptism by fire. At a club in his hometown of Pittsburgh one evening, early on in his career, he was unseated at the piano when Earoll Garner walked onto the bandstand --- and the band leader told Art to go sit behind the trap set. After an exchange of a few unpleasant words, that's what Art wound up doing. And that's where he stayed for the rest of his career. The piano experience no doubt helped him later as a band leader.
Was it the band leader or the club owner that told him to play the drums? I think I always heard it was the club owner, who was a stone cold gangster packing heat and that influenced Art's decision.
@@bholaoates1542 I stand corrected. It WAS the club owner. He was in Art's face about his reluctance to give up the piano chair. Aren't we glad he decided to go and sit behind the trap set, instead of walking out of the club that night?
@hillroad - dude I think this might be the greatest accumulation of music ever THANK YOU THANK YOU. From slug christ in a blakey drum solo. Dude are in my soul my right now?
Overplaying is a very subjective thing. I love the looseness of drummers like Mitch Mitchell and Sabbath's Bill Ward, but I also love the understated restraint of Charlie Watts and Zigaboo Modeliste.
Was this even for real! My mind can't grasp this watching it in 2022? The steep decline in musicianship we have witnessed in the last years is just mind-boggling! ART and his MESSENGERS along with especially GINGER's work with FELA is for me nearly the epitome of what we as humans achieved in music. Today's "music" is a far cry from what I would...call music!
The BEST drummers always have smaller drum kits...no need for show and smoke and gimmicks... I got tears in my eyes And my hearts in my gut My Grandfather was a jazz drummer and he loved Baker and Blakey and Was friends with Krupa
@Simon Phillips you shouldn't talk about something you know nothing about. These people know what they are talking about. And you can't compare a piano with a drum kit, you just showed its best to shut up when you don't know what you're talking about.
@@kimberlyhardin8034, he reminds me of that saying "wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something" - Plato.
