Art, Morality and 'Humans' - Demystifying Indian History - Manu S. Pillai - Historian -  

What a brilliant guy. OMG, the way he articulates his thought is absolutely deadly and addictive. Ocean of knowledge. Love from Pakistan Manu Pillai.

Brilliant work, Shehzad. Thanks for taking the time to come up with this beautiful conversation. And yes, we were witnesses to a historian with a sense of humor and a comedian who is intelligent. Leave the thankless comments by the wayside and march on ! Naya saal kaafi nafeez jaaye aapka ❤️

As a Bengali, I am bare witness of the fact that, rural women forever wore sarees without a blouse. Even i saw that myself. Old bengali movies have such figures quite often. I think that is a practice throughout our subcontinent, till the male gaze took over.

Noice I was waiting for this. Finally an author who can cover South of India as well. Thank you for releasing it this year itself! :D

Absolutely loved the discourse. This is what education needs to be about: question the simplistic prejudices and beliefs thrust upon us and open our minds to various shades of grey that define the true reality of our past and present. Please continue this important work🙏🏽

While I am a big fan of Manu's work, I think while discussing origins of communalism he does under-emphasise the pre-modern roots of communalism. For example Chris Bayly and Ajay Verghese's work does show the existence of localised violence that we can now loosely term as communal violence. I don't mean to essentialise these categories just like Manu said as Bhakti period was a time of shifting categories, but I think the idea of saying that census and colonial categorisation were the principal factors behind the rise of religious violence in the sub-continent would be going a bit too far as it would negate the bridges that connect contemporary to medieval. Also thanks a lot for hosting him on your channel. Loved his insights!!

The year is ending on a much better note than expected! Thanks, Shehzad!

OMG! Never expected this collaboration So happy Btw, I have read his Rebel Sultans Love from Assam India🇮🇳

Brilliant guest in a brilliant podcast! Recently learnt but soon became one of my favourite authors

His books are brilliant ! Most of Indian history are basically North Indian and present day Pakistan ‘s history ! South India was always excluded . Manu pillai does justice to South Indian history

Most Indians visit / revere Mosques / Gurudwaras / Churches / Sufi shrines / Temples even today 🙏🏽 Blessings from anywhere and everywhere are welcome.

Loved the conversation !

He spoke so well that it felt like a scripted interview. He was ready for every question with a concise answer, without any hums and pauses. He also sounds relatively unbiased/nuetral. It was interesting and not depressing.

Very informative with interesting unfolding of mythos. Thank you both for this discourse. Keep it going.

This podcast is a genuinely enlightening, thank you for sharing it.

Love it

I loved this

Your best Episode 👌 Thank you Shehzad.

This was so good!! Thank you!

Wow.. Manu is impressive

Wow! I hate myself for loving the accurate (can't get the exact one) history. I always get depressed reading or listening history, but this is something else. It's hopeful. Thanks Shahzad for this 🙏

brilliant episode, sir.

Loved the podcast. 👏👏

Excellent guys … and thank you for pointing how the electoral system by the British further added fuel to the communal fire.

Keep going man! Love those history and people's history podcasts. 23k subs💘

In rural Gujarat, older women folk wear backless cholis. New generation women don't wear such cholis, unless it is Garba 😜

I read his book and also wrote my research paper based on that.

Namaste... Dil choo liya bro

Shehzad Even Indians like me love to listen to your prog. Today's guest is a phenomenon given his age

Very balanced and critical views on most topics

very very goooooooood!! happy new year!!

Shehzad, this was great! Let us have more Pak-Indo conversations!

Many fans 🙌🙌🙌🙌

nice job, you had couple of flourishes there👏

Nice show give new idea to think about the facts

Ah, you said it would be released next year... So thank you for releasing it this soon :)

The way author is portraying Mughal period is a bit inaccurate. The jaziya was destroying local livelihood. Mughals could not force islam because they were minority and would have made lower class revolt. But still the jiziya was very burdensome. There was a reason why Marathas were not very happy with Mughals and revolted. He also doesnt get why mughals could not destroy maraths by just killing people. Well thats because it was gorilla warfair. Second mughal army itself was mostly indians they would not being that type of stuff. One could argue that Mughals indeed were slightly less aggressive as compared to the afghan invaders. Mainly because it was their own kingdom to just go on full killing spree.

This guy should read , history of Islamic imperialism in India by KS Laal, books by Jadunath Sarkar, RC Majumdar and Sitaram goyal

Beautiful podcast! Just too short :( Pls have him on again. Also try to get william dalrymple if you can. Thankyou shehzad!

Loved the podcast bhaijaan, please invite Vikram Sampath and J Sai Deepak as well. They have nuanced perspectives on the current socio-political and historical discourse in India.

O Wow.. Just discovered this video

Quite an interesting interview. Coming from pakistan, you asked different questions and that is interesting.

Hello @Pakistan experience How can we buy manu's books in Pakistan especially Lahore?

good one. 1. what can be done for the exclusive ideas on all sides, i know they don't matter as much as we think they do, but when we are out to solve the problems between communities , exclusive ideas do come in . just curious. 2. why does the speaker differentiate village life in the ancient times as the "real" culture? doesn't seems fair . but open to discussions.

Biswa isn't South Indian 😛 He's odiya ( from Eastern India) Odiyas are from Odissa State.. Eastern Indian

51:03 Not entirely true. People still have their Kuldevataas although they're given more importance on some yagna related activities and not on daily basis. And the concept of kuldevataas is more common in villages.

A Jat from North India, my granny used to wear a man shirt under the Saree, not a blouse.

Can you do a podcast with uzair younus bhai on indian economy presnt and future. What youth can do to improve economy. Actually we mostly see biased reviews on this. Want a non biased nutral review. Thank you in advance

not only in Kerala , I am from Bihar and my grandmother and all thr women of her age never wore a blouse in their lifetime..

In regards to covering the top, even today, men are suppose to be topless when they enter the temples in Kerala. Entry with shirts on is absolutely prohibited in Kerala temples.

As he talks about books in the background in Ravi Verma’s painting, I am looking at the books and trophy’s behind Manu 😂

Can you also interview historian called dr vikram sampath

The interviewer n intruding persons r capable n thorough on their subjects

Brilliant conversation..Manu is one of most sensible guys of our times... In today's highly polarised society, we need sane guys like manu to decipher and put forward thigs in sensible, rational manner. RW from India will never like Manu :-) keep up good work..lets create atmosphere where sensible , balance guys like Manu are given visibility and platform .

Bring on somebody to talk on history, evolution and ideology of RSS as they understand it or something related. Maybe Vijai Trivedi, Vikram Sampath or Sunil Ambekar. I feel we have little understanding of RSS although it's become very prominent today.

Invite Christophe Jaffrelot

44.1 aurangzeb deccan me shivajimaharaj ke mrutyu ke baad aaya tha 28 years maratha se ladha jit nahi paya yahi Mar Gaya aur jo jaising wali baat kr rahe he wo early times ki he jisme shivaji maharaj aur jaising me treaty Hua tha lekin within few years shivaji maharaj ne fir se woh kile jit liye

The guy is brought up reading Marxist history.

Bring Vinay Sitapati on to discuss his book called Jugalbandi which is about the BJP before Modi.

Please invite koneraled elst

1.11.00 RSS used to tell the story of 3rd battle of Panipat in Sakhas in 1970-80s with inferences that entire North India went against Marathas . So it is important for RSS to have unity at any cost. One reason why RSS people leave BJP do not like Modi but never revolt because it will destroy nation. Modi was himself pushed out of Gujarat almost into wilderness in Haryana/ HP but he also did not revolt.

Who’s listening at 1.75x speed.😍

57:30 While I agree with most of what Manu says, this coming of circles is a false equivalence. It's built around the myth that steppe people migrated in 1500-1000 BCE brought in Indo-European language, got Sanskrit out of it, then composed Rig Veda in record time (!) and that if such a circle is only 1800 years prior to Islam's arrival, India was to define itself by even more circles. (1) This false equivalence is precisely what's fuelling Hindutva; more evidences (from Max Planck institute on proto-Indo European; satellite imagery of dried Saraswati river) etc are indeed pushing the Rig Veda to a couple of thousand years prior to 'received wisdom' from colonial/ marxist historians. To concede at least some level 'primacy' to Hinduism in the subcontinent (as a broad term, not just for Vedic, but other earthy beliefs) does not mean it's a recipe for dissonance. It's like acknowledging Daoism is native to China (despite them having a good % as Muslims/ Christians now) or that Shintoism is native to Japan and so on. To constantly peddle that Hinduism was just one more circle in a quick set of circles to arrive in quick succession is intellectually dishonest and isn't even a prerequisite for modern secular values to flourish. Acknowledging one civilisational primacy and continuity in a given land (after all, Hindiuism isn't claiming any other territory as its bedrock) (2) Argument sake - if kings were kings by any means necessary (violence, propaganda, subterfuge, ...) regardless of religion - would Indian landscape "abound" in 800+ year old temples in Sultanate/ Mughal ruled areas ? Isn't it coincidental that while village life, tax system, military conquests etc happened under Muslim kings just as good/bad as Hindu kings, and somehow, we don't have great monuments to speak of a religion practised by 80% subjects ? Manu comes as close to a honest historian as feasible, outside the marxist camp; yet, his hesitation to not let his work or words be picked up by Hindutva seems to make him tone down his critique of even rules like Aurangzeb.

Please bring abhijit chavda

Please invite Abhijit Chavda!

Excellent podcast Shehzad. One thing I want refute too Manu is the part where he spoke about the Siege of Golconda. Like I understand where he is coming from in his explanation and I agree that indeed it was for politics. However, it's really discounting Aurangzeb's tainted xenophobic checkered history. I'm not trying to be biased; I am coming from genuine observation and understanding. I believe for Aurangzeb that additionally his reasoning to take out Sultan Abul Hasan Tana Shah for being Shia was like knocking out two birds with one stone. The rebuttal Manu made in regards to Aurangzeb's mother and generals being Shia doesn't hold up to Aurganzeb's intolerance of Shias. Proximity means nothing, it's like the argument made in white middle America of "Oh all my friends are black how can you call me racist" or even "my spouse is black" it honestly proves nothing. To me I reflect on the Kufans during the Battle of Karbala who they themselves were Shia and also pledged allegiance to Imam Hussain A.S. , only to betray him after basically being propositioned by Ubayd Allah ibn Ziyad to join his side instead. Like it doesn't take a lot of make a Benedict Arnold, man is fickle beyond reason and can easily throw their morals to the way side given the right circumstances. No hate all love, I am just making a clarification on this very serious matter as I don't want it to be misconstrued or be taken from granted by anyone..

Chatrapati Shivaji maharaj ki jay 🚩🚩🚩🚩 proud to being maratha 🧡🧡

Invite Harris Sultan

Please do a podcast ith Kamran Ali

yeah, mughals were god gift to this humanity and india. the best apologist historian in current times. Indians should be beware of historians like him.

Wasn't Sir Syed and Jinnah responsible for creating and reinforcing the schism - by way of their 2 nation theory? Isn't what is happening in IN a resultant of their efforts?? It takes two or more to tango.

Hairstyle is rad

Also, as Shashi Tharoor says….yes, the Mughals came as invaders, but they didn’t come to India to steal the wealth and take it somewhere else…they came to India and became Indians, generation after generation. Taxed the local population but spent the money right here in India as compared to the British, under which all the projects were aimed at how to transfer wealth away from India overseas.

I thiroughly enjoyed it. Am from hyderabad,india. Why can not we,pakistanis and indians have more such conversations. Our govts can go to hell.

Most of what this guy said is just biased justification of old practices. Good or bad.

Shehzad, you must be a unicorn in Pakistan.

Do call Vikram Sampath another historian from India who too is Sahitya Academy award winner. And he isn’t typical left wing historian too whitewash history just to propagate his political affiliation.

He is not directly blaming moplas! Slightly apologetic

What about hundreds of thousands of Indian(Hindus) were enslaved and sold in Central Asia and Middle East which Hindu King sold Indians outside? What about Jhazia?

19:40 I wonder how much money would I have made if I put a dollar everytime you said this 😆

Indian history more about mughal mughal ,rajput, sikh... very less about Northeast india, southern india...

Mapilla massacre can be justified because muslims once who were politically influential were marginalized. However, godhra massacre can’t be justified because the innocent hindus who got burned should have kept quiet and accepted the reality that the train was caught on fire.

Of course, the Brahmin Peshwas of Pune were precursors of and appropriated by the RSS.

*58:23** kitna bada historian h bhai, ye statement Dene se pahle ye to soch leta Indian subcontinent me 50% muslim h or ye ese hi nahi bane h, these all are converted forcefully by Mughal, kam se kam sach bolna to dikh le*

Come here pappa and get back to me to our house.......

Invite Abhijit Iyer Mitra 😇😇

Weren't Dara siko and Aurangzeb from two complete different centuries? Dara siko fought Mohammad Bin Qasim right!

Meenakshi Jain, Vikram Sampanth are historians who you should call

39:56 is he from some different universe? He's like Hindus use aurangazeb to label indian muslims negative? Does he not know the indian muslims see aurangazeb as a hero?😂 Atleast he accepted that aurangazeb was a crackhead zihadi, even though he tried to whitewash him by saying ohh it was just politics and political gimmick! Who was babar? Why people love babri masjid so much? Because they love babr? No not because he was great king but because they see him as a there hero! When people literally offered to pay whatever they say or asked them to build masjids anywhere they want, they still were like...ohh! No! It's a property issue 😂 like we don't see the bigotry...

Please invite Vikram sampath

Invite me on your show. Let's talk. I am a VP with global bank, lives in Europe and know both India and pakistan intimately, both literally and figuratively. We will have an interesting conversation. I want explain the basics of Dharma to a pakistan audience

I can not wrap my head around that being topless was the norm and covering up was too modern/indecent. Is this a joke? How is that possible? 😭

Man how did you got hold of all the Indians 🤣

Manu, my friend, I agree with you every bit but surely don’t agree your view on Aurangzeb. He was undoubtedly bigot who caused irreparable damage to social fabric of India. You literally carry sea of knowledge but I don’t know why you show little affinity to Dara Shikoh. I mean you would go in length when it comes to Aurangzeb. To me seeds of partition of India were sowed when Dara was murdered by bigot!! Dara, the Last Mughal who tried tolerant, secular society and failed!!!

35:12 basically he mean that Britishers didn't kill Indians in Jaliawala bag because soldiers who fired were Indians

The same excuse he was giving for aurangzeb can be used do defend Hitler, zia, Modi anyone

he should read sikh history to know about so called aura of mughals. perhaps he is son of hindu women who they kept in harem or son of Mutah

Couldn’t go past the excruciatingly boring story about the bed. Time seemed 0.25x

He is so wrong about moplas in kerela and the way they butchered hindus in malla puram and kalicut (Kozhikode) ! Instantly he came out as a left wing apologist for the most peaceful people!¡!! This is what is wrong with left wing narrative, they are so critical about Hinduism but very protective about m PPL ! The main reason why this lopsided narrative has no takers in India or even entire world today!¡!

Yeah. Examples were nice. I also have example Modi loves board Muslims and he loved by them. Modi also has a muh boli Behan who is from pak now settled in India she tie Rakhi every year, these examples shows Modi blamed for Gujrat riot is not entirely true as they are shown right?? Here we have almost 600 mn Muslims in subcontinent they converted out of free will because beautiful sufism trend and all. I never see said good thing of past(fake) often countered but said bad thing(fake) must be countered. Having a commander or minister of different religion does mean that that kings were not prejudiced against other community? Really? Don't be that dumb.