I kindof prefered it when Assassins had the pre-game strat to let you swap which assassin you in your list. Which let you take the more niche assassins if they happened to have a good target
I miss that effect. Maybe if the most expensive assassin had the ability to pregame swap for another one. The flex for a more suitable assassin would be worth the few extra points
I expect they'll get this ability when/if they get a proper Codex. Lots of the index rules are simplified "beta" versions. They'll need the ability to swap to be included tournament lists.
Oh that's super cool didn't know they had that. Would be a really interesting way to keep tactical squads relevant for tournaments if they could swap out their weapons, very . . tactical.
mainly because that Potential to one shot *ANY CHARACTER* is crazy, it will take some luck and a bad play but you could very well 1 shot Abaddon, Lion and Guilliman with that, which I'm pretty sure they are the chunkiest Characters out here.
Vindicare is useless against sisters of battle and, I assume, eldar too. Basically two factions which can decide I'll use one of my prerolled dice to save. And since you only have one shot, that's an easy save. At least it eats through faith dice.
For the vindicare, the battle-shock part seems to be separate from the critical hit bit so I'm pretty sure you battle-shock a hit enemy even if you don't get a critical hit
I feel the biggest nerf to assassins in recent time was the removal of the ability that let you exchange your assassins for a different one pre-game; made especially culexus quite good.
I don't mind the Eversor being toned down from the infatry blender that he used to be, but given the importance of battleshock in this edition, I feel it's a missed opportunity to not make it more meaningful in his case - this should be like his main thing. I guess they thought it would make him overlap with the Culexus to a degree, and thus make him the better out the two, but that's a separate issue. The Culexus is in a really weird place now that the psychic phase is virtually gone, and his rules just feel bland and uninspiring.
It would make a lot more sense for him to have the Culexus's rule and for its aura to be -1 to hit for psychic attacks against any target. Would feel more focused for both.
While it is toned down from 9th still, rolling 2 sixes and no misses double your attack to 12 so you could really put the hurt on a 10 man squad and cause battleshick
Vindicare is almost good for sheer shock / pain in the ass value. He can easily have all the shots bounce. He can also eliminate multiple characters. Personally he always seems worth it because often enough people will try to avoid his LoS, and that in itself can be extremely value. Had one game where all he got was a single Commissar and some chaff but he kept both Lord Solar and a Primaris Psyker from ever going down into that line of fire. He is kinda like a Primaris Turret but more flexible positioning and a more specific target profile doing that. But yea, he feels like the most flexible assassin in his safeness / straightforwardness, and probably the best for a take all comers list.
@@icotica921Yeah he was the only guy that could actually *throw* his melta bomb. Took out a Dark Angel dreadnought with that ability. Then he got mashed by Belial.
I brought a Culexus with Hounds of Morkai (with Phobos Lib) to a tourney. 4 of my 5 games didn't have any psykers to go against, and the one that did was Chaos Knights. I felt so clever bringing that combo, but random chance made them better as objective holders than anything else!
I've had a vindicare do 9 unsaveable wounds to an enemy warlord, kill a rhino, and do 3 rounds of melee and pistol shooting into daemons. Amazing. My eversor got piled into by world eaters, killed no one, survived, then exploded and killed one. He has also survived a full flesh hound charge then wiped the unit in retaliation. Pretty good. I need more data but I've been having a banger of a time with them.
Not using battle shock as a method to amplify the eversors damage as well as to modify his Inv. save to better reflect his power as a terror assassin, was a seriously missed opportunity. Have a similar mindset towards the Culexus. Vindicaire is quite Kino though.
Ye, the Culexus in particular is rather wierd. I mean, in the lore, a Culexus can go "invisible" by using it¡s blank aura to make the mind of non-psykers go "nope! nothing to see here! no skull faced monstrosity in front of me!" while psykers simply recoil in horror. One would think they would have some sort of dread aura on the tabletop.
I love the Vindicare, not only cause I think snipers are badass, but for 80 points, he's a great include in my Imperial Knights to snipe the warlord as fast and easily as I can, which is definetively not a very noble way of doing it, but I don't judge my House's means of Laying Low the Tyrant
As sisters you can get some celestial sacresants with a hospitaller for 5+ FNP or the other leaders that make them tankier, then you can use the "must target this unit in melee" strat on them in conjunction with an Eversor or Callidus so that the assasins get to stay alive for a turn. Not sure if it's worth it but something to consider since you might already be doing that anyway to keep the enemy from targeting repentia. You could also force the enemy to target a mortifier or even the paragon suits if you took them.
@@Dale4cetanu They are described as emitting a electromagnetic wave, that overload the central nervous system and pain receptors of anything in the area. So you can't even see its shots, just the target suddenly getting seizures and starting to convulse and then die. Nasty things really.
So the potential max damage output for the Vindicare rifle alone on a crtical hit is [(D3 + 3) + 3] = 9 wounds with no saves allowed whatsoever if you also opt for and make the Shieldbreaker ability. Then a battle-shock test 😳
Eversor is a fire-and-forget missile that you throw at something and hope he takes his points back, potentially even blow up. At 75 pts he's fine. Vindicare is solid against most lists. Culexus has always been in a weird spot given that he either does something or he does nothing depending on the matchup. Callidus is too expensive for what she does.
I would argue callidus is actually perfect and any lower would be undercosted. Shes not very impressive as an actual assassin though. Her main use is that she can just appear on any objective that isnt held by the opponent, and can cripple some armies who rely on strats. In tourney play she can pop off the field and cover your backline objective or perform an action. If your opponent reroll strats, boom, now he cant again all game unless he pays 2. Even more impactful on certain armies who are going to want to use the same strategems every turn, can make those unaffordable. My buddy has been playing her with his knights and oh man has she saved his butt. its really easy to get either too spread or too concentrated with so few units on the field like knights have, and having the flexibility to drop her in to cover a spot for a bit is an awesome ability.
@@tom4115 The callidus ability that increases the cost of a strategem. First appeared in Drukari as the strategem Agents of Vect, has had a couple iterations but the one that was most popular and infamous was the version that allowed you to increase the cost of a strategem the opponent uses by 1CP. Since then people refer to that type of ability as a vect strat.
Vindicares are an absolutely PITA to play against - they're an extremely good unit. I have a Gargoyles unit in my Nidzilla list purely to fly over and harass vindicares when I face them, (which is often) and lock them up for a couple of turns.
The video I was looking for. Yesterday I played my first 10th battle (coming from 7th) I decided to try Callidus first, in a guard (imperial) vs guard (death) battle vs my middle brother. The callidus was instrumental in helping get side victory no-man-land points. She killed two minor marine characters.
This is great. If you have the time, I would love for you to do a video on the other Imperial Agents as well (the units and the Inquisitors), because I only recently took a look at them and found they look really cool, and now I want to conscript some of them into my Imperial armies!
Vindicator is awesome. Managed to rool a 6 to hit on a shieldbraker round and sniped a tau commander warlord. Even without sixes on rolls he is a threat. Especially on somewhat open tables.
With the Eversor I wasn't super impressed. He killed 6 Termagants and that was with great rolls. Basically his maximum potential for 75 points could be traded for a cheaper cost and higher OC for something like another Guardsman squad or something.
Was that including the Sustained Hits3 and shooting? Also, a thing to consider is that his melee is dam2, so could take out space marine models(and other 2 wound models) fairly well in melee, rather than overkilling 1 wound models. Finally, his free Heroic Intervention each battle round is a nice 1-2 punch option.
Gaunt's is pretty much his worst target against nids. Tyrant Guard/Hive Guard/Genestealers/Biovores/Pyrovores/Warriors/Raveners on the other hand, actually makes use of his anti-infantry 3+ and D2.
Played 40K for just one year back when I was a freshman in high school in 2001. LOVED the Vindicare assassin in my Black Templar army. He's definitely the coolest looking model in the whole Imperium. The crack cocaine and meth addicted Eversor assassin was good for a laugh when playing unskilled enemies afraid of 1st turn insane charges (that ultimately did nothing for me but was fun nonetheless). An ork friend of mine nicknamed the Eversor assassin "turbo burglar." Didn't play the Culexus assassin as I'm a bit of a germaphobe and his weird donut head made me physically ill to look at. Don't remember the Callidus assassin's stats from 20+ years ago but they were NOWHERE NEAR as good as they are now 😳 If I played her now I would pop her Confusion skill on my opponent the first time he used Command Re-roll, ideally early in the game. Now it costs him 2 CP everytime to Command Re-roll for the rest of the game even if the Callidus dies, SERIOUSLY complicating his decision making.
Love some of the assassins, but ngl miss the stratagem pools they used to have. Also the eversor no longer being a guarenteed biobomb is what i am honestly saddest about
Tested the Culexus Assassin today against GKs worked pretty good managed to kill 7 inceptors throughout the game and he stayed alive because of lone operative. The Vindicare assassin is obviously the best for his pts for the role by far. But the Culexus is great against psykers but that's about it.
You missed the greatest point in the use of Culexus Assassins. If there is a [Psyker] character included in a bodyguard unit, the WHOLE bodyguard unit is treated as psykers, therefore the anti-psyker would apply to them. This makes the Culexus an invaluable modell against psyker-heavy character lists, like aeldari, Tsons, or even marines with libras.
My Vindicare used his shieldbreaker bullet to crack five wounds off Trajann Valoris in turn 1, then turn 2 I overwatched when he got even closer and managed to roll two sixes in a row for dev wounds; he got absolutely murdered by the Custodes Guard attached to Trajann immediately afterwards but being able to take out 160 points of warlord with 80 points of assassin is a trade I'd make any day :)
I think the Eversor is most useful in Knights.... lets him get onto objectives turn 1 they otherwise couldn't thanks to buildings being in the way, and then he can't be shot at thanks to lone operative so he's great at just holding things.
I'm planning on running a callidus in a DA list with the lion just to double down on strategem control. Nothing like making them pay 3CP for a strat that doesn't even go off.
So in regards to the Overwatch thing...my thought is as it is currently it has an odd ball quirk with these double up abilities. So we establish that the heirarchy of rules is as such: BRB
Other stratagems can also, normally, only be used once per phase. If you have used Tank Shock in the phase, you cant use it again in the same phase. The overwatch rules states "once per turn" because it can be used in either the opponent's movement phase or charge phase. So under normal circumstances, you only get to use it in either one or the other. That is what the "once per turn" refers to(99% sure of it).
Honestly, if the Culexus forced all psykers to be battle shocked (no test, just shocked) within 12" and turned off psychic within 6" it would be much more useful.
figuring the Vindicare could theoretically one shot any Character (Lion/Abaddon/Guilliman have 9 wounds total) plus extra snipers could very well do that.
I have caused chaos and confusion with a Vindicare in my Deathwatch army. Your only question should be, do you want to one shot your enemy's leaders moment they are visible? and that answer should be always yes. Though, your opponents will probably have a massive shit fit afterwards, I had a match week ago where my Vindicare took out 2 Exalted Sorcerers and Ahriman in 3 turns.
Vindicare IMO is a bit swingy. I had a game where I rolled three sixes against a castellan IK and took out the last wounds (epic moment), and in the next game I rolled a 1 to hit with one shot and a 2 to wound the following turn doing absolutely nothing. Callidus is more reliable, on a tournament messing with the opponent's CP is insane, just the psychological effect makes the opponent think twice if it's the right moment to use a stratagem
The Eversor actually embodies what the original assassins were- killing your target at the expense of your own life. That was what made them so scary, they were fanatics unafraid to die in order to kill their targets.
Since Kurov’s Aquila and similar enhancements cost 40 points, you’re essentially paying 75 for the Callidus’ combat profile. That seems fair. Seems a bit better at assassinating than the Eversor with the redeploying options but a bit worse in combat.
Yeah, I see the Eversor more as a "threatening presence" that lurks around your battle lines. If someone charges one of your units, and it is nearby, you can get a free Heroic Intervention off and get some "Fights First" attacks on the unit. Or if a weakened unit tries to get out of bad situation, the Eversor can quickly close in and finish them off.
Too bad they don't get the Acts of Faith keyword in a Sororitas army. Getting to substitute an automatic 6 on some of those key rolls would be pretty sweet 😄
I took a vindicare thinking “he’s gonna snipe generic captains and that’s it”. The first game I used him in he stared down Abaddon and hit him with 7 wounds. He had to be weekend and Bernies’d around for the rest of the game and now I take my lil sniper in every army Though I do love snipers so I end up taking ravenguard and nestling him in with my scout snipers and eliminators.
For us xenos, the Firesight team is well worth taking, and fulfills a similar role to the Vindicare...but we can take three of them at 70 pts per team. (finally they're worth taking...they've been rubbish since 4th Ed)
Eversor in Custodes is pretty good He can chew up some trash infantry and free up bananas to take down more important stuff. I think an Inquisitor is usually better though, for the Deny and the anti-overwatch power. I miss the Terminator Armor Malleus guy, he was tough enough to hang with them and not explode. Vindicare not so good, Custodes really don't need help butchering HQ, usually.
Auspex out here reading my mind. I love the hobby side of this amazing IP and play very little but I was just wondering if these "really cool dudes" were worth their weight in salt on the table.
hmm...they dont hit as hard, but even against someone like abaddon a ratling sniper team still looks like it will average a hit or two (and do 2 damage) while the vindicare is only going to connect half his shots or less on average and softer targets just look to lean more toward the squad...yes the vindicare looks like he has a chance to take things over the top but i think i prefer consistency. might have to stick to the ratboys...
I use the eversor because I am already using the vindicare and have 80 pts free in custodes. So its eversor or 2 squads of presecutors, and the eversor seems harder to kill
The Vindicare feels a bit cheap for the potential he has - especially considering how many different armies can make use of the assassins. Maybe I'm just bitter than the GSC's Sanctus sniper is so obviously worse for only 30 points less.
Mortarion and Magnus aren’t that big of an issue in the 41st millennium because they’re busy running from a Culexus assassin who can remove most of their HP bar with a shoulder tap Seriously all of magnus’ attacks get rejected on a 2+ with an invul save. And he just has to take the damage given to him most of the time
Shame the Eversor doesn't have his melta bomb any more - gave him a bit more use versus vehicles and big nasties. Now he just kills infantry and not a lot of it to be worth the points investment.
Assassins are funny because they're good but against TSons nobody's allowed to be good cuz it's like "nice Lone Op I'm gonna doombolt you from 36" away anyway lol" "Nice rapid ingress from out of 12" I'm gonna move in my shooting phase to within 12" then nuke you lol" Edit: For eversor's 2+ FNP against psychic attacks as well; doombolt isn't a psychic attack, its just mortal wounds.
