Ascended Astarion as an ex seems like the kind of guy who would keep finding excuses to bump into you at your work or places you hang out just so he can awkwardly tell you how great he is doing and how happy he is now and that you are missing out on so much and then when you tell him you are also doing well and seeing someone new he will key your car in the parking lot then go home and write an angry fan fic about you begging to come back to him and him laughing in your face saying no.
Actually when vampires have a person that they love, they never leave them alone That the point They have feelings, and it’s real, but just according their nature, feelings are corrupted, twisted and maybe like toxic (for us)
@katiatall in the lore vanpires can't love "Love turns into a hungry obsession, while friendship becomes bitter jealousy." They don't leave them alone because they are obsessed 😔
@@katiatall Yeah I imagine at least in this very specific scenario where she rejected him so harshly he would still be super obsessive but not in a "i want you back" kind of way but in a "I'm just going to follow you and relentlessly try to make you feel bad for hurting me" kind of way.
The poor man is coping and seething under his barely maintained composure. He has everything he ever wanted and all it cost was the one thing he truly needed
Oh my god that fake 'i love you' sounds almost as insincere as "how about these little words, everyone's favorite..." i dont even play this and it felt like a slap on the face
@@Nictat0r Oh yes, for me it is the obvious gaslighting question afterwards. "That is what you want, isn't it?" He is checking if his pet still works. He is doing the same in the act 1 romance scene and also when his quest is before the climax. (After meeting Petras and Dalyria and when he asks for help after defeating cazador.)
I love how he parallels his first night with Tav. "That's what you want, isn't it...to lose yourself in me" vs. here "to be mine forever?." He's still just trying to do and say what he thinks Tav wants to hear. Such great story telling.
@@Nictat0rTrue, true, that was a toxic/selfish thing to say, but I agree with @blueplague5911 that *most* of the things said by your Tav were not actually unhealthy. If anything Astarion is being toxic too, trying to manipulate still, even if he thinks it is out of "love". Tav is right in that a beloved slave is still a slave, soooo...not what he wanted to hear, maybe disappointing, but not necessarily the wrong things for Tav to say. Again, the sleeping together is a horrible thing to say to him.
@TheOddOne347 totally agree. I just felt the asking for just one thing from him, considering his history, is pretty cruel. Not that he didn't deserve it. I just tried to choose the meanest options because he was being such a terrible person 😭
@LaydiNite I think you can see it that way, but I think there is room for it being a mistake with good intentions. The lines "I wanted you to feel safe" and "I wanted the best for you" could arguably be a Tav who was trying to be practical with getting rid of so many spawn and wanting the best for astarion. That being said, I think if you are ascending astarion, you are probably going for a full evil playthrough, and that's pretty toxic 😬🤣
"But you will not be in my heart." That's cute that he thinks he still has one. Ironic that becoming a literal living vampire with a beating heart kills who he is while remaining dead causes him to come alive again. Goes to show that a working heart isn't always a live one. I'm definitely a spawn Astarion stan but I can appreciate toxic Astarion as well sometimes. From another person's eyes. I would never allow myself to be treated that way.
Exactly. Just more manipulation 😔 I feel the same. Spawn Astarion is wonderful but Ascended Astarion hurts my heart. It's a great story either way though, so well written.
His story is truly a masterpiece. So many pros and cons and so many choices. But at the end we help him choose whether we give him what he wants and not what he needs, or we give him what he needs and not what he wants. At the end of the day, it can't be both. I've done both endings and I prefer to give him what he needs rather than what he wants. Spawn Astarion learns free will and starts to feel again rather than give him power where he becomes a Cazador 2.0 with a different way of doing so. Ascended Astarion is just too cruel than he already was before. If only we can live eternity as a true vampire with Spawn Astarion 😭😭🥺
I love the first half of the dialog, it's so cruel. I chose the same when playing evil Durge. He keep talking about spending eternity together and my guy was just horny and wanted sex. "Don't you want more?" "No thank you, just the sex please. Now take your clothes off or shut up!" - Roleplaying a disgusting asshole is the only way I can handle ascended Astarion. You can be vicious towards him and don't even have to feel bad. A very tragic ending for him overall. He got what he wanted - power and control but mentally he is at his weakest point. He thought ascending would solve all his problems but he is still scared, paranoid and traumatized. Continuing the cycle was the easy path. It's all too common for the abused to become the abuser. You can 'just push' your trauma on to somebody else. Healing from trauma is tough and messy. You feel weak and pathetic. But it takes a lot of strength to break the cycle and be better than generations before you. So even if spawn Astarion cannot see it at the end of his quest, he doesn't need the ritual. He is already strong.
I completely agree. I'm the same, I really struggle not to be an asshole to him when he says the things he does. I would love to see scenes with ascended astarion and spawn astarion in the future and what that outcome would be. Ascended Astarion controlling and paranoid and hopefully Spawn Astarion finally free and happy. Although I would guess that Ascended Astarion might be dead at that point if he starts trying to take over the world 😬😂
@@Nictat0r If you play the various origin stories you find out that all of them die sooner or later on their 'evil' path. SPOILER . . . Gale gets killed by Mystra just after the final fight. Lae'zel becomes Vlaakiths evening snack. Wyll and Shadowheart are always worried about assassinations and betrayal and Durge has to kill themselves or become Bhaals puppet. Astarion fantasizes about taking over the city, which will not end well for him. He will probably have a good time, but it will be a short time 😂
So I have two theories and I hate them both. See, if you have the party leave after defeating (but before killing) Cazador, Astarion will accept that he cannot do the ritual without fuss or lamentation, kill him, then free and defend the spawn, describing them as innocent victims deserving of a chance at life. We also know, both through his relationship with Tav and the fact that even 170+ years after the fact, he still gets incredibly emotional when thinking about Sebastian or "that sweet man" he couldn't bear to bring home to Cazador. Like legit there are only handful of times in the game where he seems close to tears, and Sebastian and recounting that story are two of them. There's even a debuff he can get if Sebastian condemns him. Further, after you don't ascend him, he comes to Tav and thanks them for saving him from himself, describing himself in the ritual chamber as blinded by the promise of power and the safety he hoped it would grant him, but we know if we ascend him that he starts masking again and becomes more fragile than he was in Act 1, which makes a lot of sense because, as someone far smarter than me put it, giving Astarion ascension hoping it'll help him is like giving someone with PTSD a gun and expecting them to feel safe. It doesn't work like that. He's still as scared and traumatized as ever, but now he's either been de-souled (if you follow the lore) or he's having to deal with the guilt of killing the spawn and corrupting himself beyond all hope of love and real connection. Honestly I *hope* the devil pact of a ritual takes his soul and robs him of his humanity, because the idea that he's still that same person who thanks Tav for saving them from this fate, now buried under a fresh mountain of guilt and self-loathing, fucking hurts man.
wow that gun point is perfectly put. I never thought of it like that but that hit the nail on the head. I also hope he's lost his humanity with it, which I thnk is accurate. Mainly so I don't feel bad about hating him. The whole situation is tragic but ultimately he was free to make his own decisions, just like he wanted to 😔
Oh hello, the algorithm reunited us once again 😍 There is this VICIOUS irony of the ascension that it's giving him exactly what he wants while also denying him the true freedom to become his own person (the thing he needs). Astarion does not know what's good for him, which makes sense because trauma affects your higher brain functions like memory, self-control, orientation, attention, judgment, planning, and decision-making.
@@Nictat0r have you heard of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs? it describes a relationship between needs and development. when the most basic survival needs are met, an individual/community/society is able to engage in more complex tasks like those Louves listed. and there's another pyramid, too, one that describes the inverse relationship, how oppression and abuse limit development and increase the conditions for violence because the means to solve problems and resolve conflict have been removed. this one is called the pyramid of hate.
@@Nictat0r Thank you for your sacrifice! I'm glad you're picking the "mean" options because those feel much more like what I would choose in your situation.
For me, it’s the fact he won’t make you a true vampire and then breaks up with you if you won’t be his spawn 😅 like boy you’ve spent this entire adventure telling me how spawn have all the hunger and little of the power of a true vampire, and now you want that for me??? WHY exactly is making me an equal a problem for you? From what I gather, it’s because all he understands now is power and control. So maybe people who like the romantic fantasy of “Once you’re mine, I’ll make sure you NEVER leave me” really enjoy this for that reason. And people like me who start going into fight or flight mode at that (IRL a huge red flag) sentiment run the fuck away 😂
hahaha exactly! He didn't miss his calling as a salesman thats for sure 😂😂😂 All that "you are mine" stuff makes me sick to my stomach. I would be half way to Waterdeep before he'd finished his sales pitch 🏃♀🏃♀🏃♀
The quote that completely killed this route for me was: "Please, everything is about power. Sex, relationships, violence - they're all just different forms of control." That coming from a r**e suriver is so messed up.
@@Louves192 Yes that one was AWFUL. I will also add to the list when he explains what’s about to happen to Tav before Turning them, that he’ll “kill your mind”. Some of that scene was hot ngl, but that line had me like🏃♀️🏃♀️🏃♀️
This game is so freaking well written and the voice acting is incredible. You point out Astarion's hypocrisy and he acts like he was just waiting for the other shoe to drop, as if he wasn't the one who pushed you away by seeking to use you as a spawn. Shows at once both his fear of not being good enough (waiting for the other shoe to drop) and the abusive behavior to come as he follows in Cazador's footsteps.
@@FranWest.Right. That "I love you" is more of a test to gauge Tav's reaction. He's struggling with his own feelings and isn't sure how to proceed, or if he CAN proceed. He doesn't know how to ACTUALLY have a relationship.
While looking at the ending dialog scripts I found something interesting. There is a devnote in the Ascendion romance ending dialog that confirms he does intent to keep Tav as a spawn. If Tav asks him if he is going to turn them into a true vampire, he replies that there is nothing he wants more; but the devnote says he is overly sincere and doesn't mean it. Shocker - I know 😂
@@Nictat0r The script goes as follows: Player: And you promise you'll make me a full vampire soon? Astarion : My darling, of course! I want nothing more [devnote: overly sincere, he doesn't really mean it] And I know people will say the script is lying something like that. But there is no point in arguing against delusions 🙄
There's a reason people insist because he tells you he intends to and says what you want to hear, that he's telling the truth, and it's called DENIAL... He'll never admit that he would've used tav and their love against them so people take that as confirmation that he's still as loveable as he was before ascencion... They either don't know or refuse to acknowledge that he's LYING! "But he said he'd make tav a true vampire, he said he loved my tav" yeah, he's still lying. That's... like a thing he's known to do when you meet him. Don't be so naive, oh my god 😭😭 It's just all so weird, the denial I mean.
@RobotScarlet I completely agree. I think someone also mentioned there is some dialogue somewhere that says he's lying about making Tav a vampire, but I haven't encountered it yet personally
The detail that convinced me he wasn't the same person anymore is when you say the line: "I wanted a powerful ally and now I have one.", implying you were using him. And he seems fine with "being used", while he would have been outraged before the ritual. And also when he just ascended, describing the physical effects of your feelings to him (heartbeat increase, shortness of breath etc) as "you, waiting for his command". Astarion died in the same room as Cazador during that ritual. There is truly nothing left of him, despite a husk of lies.
That is so true. He would have never been okay with being used before that. Its sad to think that would be the rest of his life now. Using people and being used 😔
There are so many contradictions in ascended Astarion to what he said and did before the ritual, so there is plenty of proof that the person he was is gone if he ascends. It confuses me so much that there are so many people who deny this fact and view the ascension as a good ending for him and that he still genuinely loves Tav (which obviously isn't the case). What is the cruelest detail to me is what you can learn from detecting Cazador's thoughts before you kill him. That deep down even Cazador regrets the life he led as a vampire lord and he mourns the man he's been before in his mortal life. So it kind of shows that true/ascended vampires lack the one thing Astarion truly wanted: A free will and autonomy over his own life. Cazador and ascended Astarion are only driven by their hunger for power and nothing else.
@@Nictat0r I think it's after he hides inside the coffin if you don't have Astarion in the party. I wasn't able to trigger it myself so far, but I've seen videos of it. His thoughts are "These deathless dreams hold memories of a mortal life once forgotten. Of the boy I was, the man I became, the monster that will not end. I sleep, but cannot rest. I live, but cannot die. I am eternal, and I grieve." It's pretty fcking sad that even a bastard like Cazador is aware that he's a monster, but still couldn't stop himself from being one. I'm afraid that the same could be true for ascended Astarion.
The fact he doesn't ascend if by himself makes me believe that he ascends for the sake of being with Tav- it's the only thing that explains the difference. He thinks he has to become powerful, he feels he doesn't deserve Tav the way he is, but he sees tav as the best thing that ever happened to him and the one thing he truly needs to become whole and worthy again. So he ascends. He loads all the guilt of killing the spawn on himself, thinking it's the only way to be deserving of tav and truly be with Tav forever, as he doesn't know how to fubction without, and in effect looses what actually did make him deserving of tav: his, at the very base, innocent and good soul. It's tragic, really. And here, when he's confronted by Tav with what he lost through the ascension and sees that he's loosing the thing he all did it for, he tries to seduce Tav again, using an "I love you" in a cruel, manipulative and confused way all at once. He's trying desperately to make Tav, who he thinks he reauires to be whole, his forever and doesn't realize he already had Tav before. And when he realizes that Tav won't let him own them like pack of medication pills, that all the things Tav liked to hear no longer work because he's lost his sincerity, despite the fact that he sacrificed his "innocence" for Tav, he panicks, breaks and then copes by deflecting and blaming Tav. He gets bitter. He gets lost. He gets... Worse. The one thing that he thought would fix him ends up breaking everything apart again, leaving him a hollow shell. Ascended Astarion almost breaks my heart more than spawn Astarion, because he looses something he can never get back for something that doesn't work out.
I don't think he can ascend without Tav though. He has to see the markings through Tav's eyes. Completely agree though, ascended astarion is so heartbreaking 🥺
I let him Ascend for like... a couple days but I could barely stand listening to him talk to my character. I was like: is she gonna have to move away from BG to get away from this weird freak? Because you know he doesn't mean it when he says he's done with you. He sounds so weirdly like Strahd. I can't believe the same guy that wanted to walk in the sun is talking about blanketing the world in darkness.
Haha mistakes were made, I have to move. The ultimate bad break up 😂 Completely agree though. He gave me the ick from the first conversation after he ascended.
I agree but perhaps Raphael's description of the Rite of Profane Ascension had some real meaning. It is more diabolical than even for Raphael's tastes. Not just from killing 7000+ souls. It has to do something terrible to the recipient.
The only good thing about Ascended Astarion is that I can kick him in the balls lmao. Other than that, that's not him, poor baby becomes Cazador 2, ugh 😖 😭
THANK YOU for showing us these outcomes cus i always see like "good end / ascended astarion" videos but like wheres the options where tav sets boundaries HASASAHSAH
@@Nictat0r If it’s butt shots you want I recommend doing the avenge the water woman (pr whatever it’s called) quest, getting the dress/armour and sticking Astarion in it. Best decision I ever made
@@Nictat0r no the sea ladies armour is often the best thing I’ve ever seen, the side cut outs go past the hips so you can see basically everything and the front cut out is LOW, Larian also spent WAY to much time on the fabric physics on it because in almost every cutscene where he’s wearing it and moving I die a little
Yeah, I totally understand that, it is a pretty tough ride. Sometimes, I have to take a break because it's so heartbreaking to play through. Then I do a quick good Astarion reload to make everything better again 🥰🥰🥰
Honestly? I won’t be surprised if history would repeat itself - Tav would take a role of spawn Astarion and A.Astarion would end up like Cazador. Sooner or later he will get bored and that whole „great romance” act will end.
If you ask if he’s learned anything, it leads to a dialogue where he says he wants to share it with the person he loves, and doesn’t say it in a manipulative way
@@Nictat0r I wonder what choices you chose :o he got a little snippy but ultimately what he said was “I just want to share this with the person I love, don’t you want that too”
@@Nictat0rlol that’s understandable, I’m patient with him but sometimes I’m like *side eye and chooses worst option before going back to previous save*
The way he says "We could have it all!" makes me think about the song "Old Money" from the MTG soundtrack - when the vampire gang tries to convince you to join them :D "You could have it all. Join us and raise above the rest. It only takes one kiss on the neck. Immortal."
I am not sure if it's just me or if there is an intended connection between appeal and sincerity in the game. Whenever Astarion turns on the seducer voice, I instantly find him superbly unappealing, he performs hot but he is only painful (and a bit hilarious). And then you have Gale, who casually drops his little speech about how fighting alongside the player makes him tingle and it instantly makes me wonder if one might perhaps further discuss the topic during the next short rest, please? Mainly because it is almost painfully sincere.
I kind of agree. I think I found it appealing in the beginning, but now I know his story, even if I go back to the beginning meeting, it feels different
Haha, no, I think there are a few people. You're not wrong though, can't deny he's got some amazing new powers. I think the story and writing are great, I just don't like him romantically long term for my Tav. You know, because he's super evil and all 😂
@@Nictat0r tbh. He rejected me romantically! Hahahaha. I'm still hurt by it! 😭🤣🤣 I was too heroic. But as a friend companion he's less toxic I guess. + he still gets to walk in the sun ascended. I dig him powerful and evil. 🤣❤️
@kiri_the_maker haha I'm just imagining you're heroic character in conversations now. "Hi, I'm the heroic saviour of the city. Oh, don't mind Astarion in the back there murdering nobles and accumulating power. He's great in a fight and a hilarious dinner guest... if you don't mind being the main course." 😂😂😂
You know one thing i dont understand? Non ascended astarion has more dignity, emotional intelligence, and confidence than ascended astarion. Shouldnt it be the other way round? Ascended ast should have been better, but he is so much more.. pathetic. He is more insecure, more guarded and lies to tav (non ascended drops the act and is more truthful), more paranoid, and more manipulative. Its far worse than act 1 astarion. I wish we could spend more time with ascended astarion to really figure out his personality. Maybe hes on a temporary power trip and would settle then mellow down, but we doubt so. I hope we get a dlc. I would like to know how depraved and different he is. Its the one and only way to settle the eternal spawn vs ascended astarion debate.
I think his emotions attachments wither and warp when he becomes ascended. He even says in one dialogue, "Everything is about power. Sex relationships, violence - they are just all different forms of control." Very manipulative 🥺 He's driven by sins, so greed, envy pride etc. He's not capable of emotional intelligence, but I guess that's the sad trade off for power. It depends on what you value most. Emotionally intelligence and true love or power and strength. Power corrupts, so I think he will only get worse with time, just like cazador 😔 Fingers crossed for a dlc or extra content, I would love to see that as well 😍
It makes sense when you see it as the journey of an abuse survivor. If he rejects the ritual he is free to be his own person. Breaking out of the cycle of abuse takes a lot of mental strength and he proves that he is strong enough. It also requires a lot of self-reflection. Someone in that kind of siuation often doesn't realize they are a part of the cycle and they need to take an active role to escape it. He acknowledges his weaknesses and puts in the work to become a better person. Ascension oh the other hand is the perpetuation of the cycle, it's the 'easy way', the passive one. He is continuing what countless generations did before him because he didn't have the mental strength to refuse the ritual. He might be physically more powerful but his mind is weak. Ascended Astarion refuses to see his flaws and acknowledge his trauma so he won't be able to heal from it.
@@Louves192 so true. You especially see it with his fits of rage when you mention cazador after he ascends. He's still haunted by it because deep down he knows the truth. He will never be free of cazador because he will see him in everything he does.
@@Nictat0r Uh yeah that one is rough. Especially when you consider he moves into Cazadors mansion after the ritual. The servants call him the 'new master'. Urgh.
"I can't believe you let me do that" is the only truthful thing he said. He almost sounds disappointed. He turns it around into manipulation and deflection with "a pleasant surprise." I think if spawn Astarion was there to witness himself.. idk. Letting Astarion ascend is like letting a friend drink and drive. Sure they want to, but do you enable them?
That is true, but I felt it was a little toxic to only choose options asking for his body, considering the trauma he has been through with that 😳 but for sure Astarion is toxic, that why I tried to choose the mean options, because I hate him so much
Then don't, I would have agreed with you if that was in act 2, but you see, with the confession scene, he finally realises that he's more than a tool, and he's done being a toy used for someone else's pleasure. That scene is extremely important for the character, because even if tav forces him to do the deed, he then breaks up with tav, because he realises that tav considers him just a tool for their pleasure, and he's no longer willing to use his body to gain alliances and things that he needs. Furthermore, in act 3, is the first time that you hear him saying a massive no, in the brothel, when the twins propose a foursome, and he states that it's too soon, and he doesn't feel comfortable. Astarion proposes the sex to tav, after Cazador's death, because he's finally free and can start to heal from what he was forced to do when he was Cazador's property, because, let's face it, until Cazador's death, he was running away from someone extremely powerful that had no intent into letting one of his spawns astray, and he was most likely going to make an example out of Astarion. If you see in one of the cutscenes, after Cazador's death, he said something on the effect that the adventures that they had taught him not to be afraid anymore, because living in fear meant not living at all. After killing Cazador, he feels free, to explore his sexuality (because yes, trauma survivors are still people with needs and wants) and intimacy once more. True, Astarion in act 1 chased tav too, but act 1 astarion still saw himself in danger and in desperate need of an ally and therefore used all the techniques that he had learnt and habits from when he was Cazador's slave, while Astarion in act 3 went through the revelation that he didn't had to sell his body no more, that he was more than he was made to be and with Cazador's death he was actually free.
thank god i saw this video in my recommended. i was so set on ascending astarion because that's what he wanted but seeing this... this isn't it. (its a blessing and a curse to go into this game completely blind)
*Spoiler* If you want a more, I don't know, satisfying(?) feeling after ascending Astarion, play as evil DUrge >> . . . Evil DUrge to Ascended Astarion: "Yes, my treasure, whatever you like, dark consort sounds like a blast. Let's rule the world together!" (DUrge then enslaves elder brain) "You were so right, my dearest pet--godlike power is wonderful! Now... On. Your. Knees." Almost feel sorry for Starry at that point.
If they ever add changelings to the playable races, my changeling cleric of Asmodeus would absolutely do this. Seduce him, sleep with him, manipulate his feelings so he thinks she'll never turn on him, allow him to attain the power of the ritual, allow him to turn her to further cement his trust in her, and then rip it all away from him and turn him back into a puppet, thus also controlling every spawn that he creates.
@@Nictat0r yeah. I'm mostly healed from the trauma. Thanks, in no small part, to my second ex, who actually treated me like a human being. We weren't compatible either, but this time it was more that we each realized we wanted different things, and neither of us would've been happy with making the other miserable just to preserve the relationship. I'm still friends with my second ex. Can't stay the same about my first.
@@emmasilver2332 sometimes it takes someone you treating you right to see how terrible the other person is and what to watch out for. I'm so sorry you went through that. I think it happens a lot with women especially when they are younger. I know there was so many times in some relationships where my gut was telling me that something was wrong but somehow I convinced myself it was just me or I was being silly. Now if i see a red flag I run for the hills 🏃♀🚩
@@Nictat0r exactly. I'm 23 and I'm still learning how to make my own decisions. At first, I was afraid to say no. Now, I'll often say no on instinct just to prove to myself that I still know how, or to reassure myself that my loved ones will respect my decision. It'll take me a while before my yes and no will truly match what I truly want. Before my decisions are truly and completely my own. But at least I'm on a positive trajectory now.
Tav: Treats Ascendant Astarion like crap, breaks up with him... Ascendant Astarion gets salty and and toxic Tav: surprised pikachu face.. You do Realise, that if you actually treat him like you love him, he is not "toxic". On the same note: Break up with un ascendant Astarion at the end of the game, see how he really feels about giving up everything for you.
Oh no, I did that first, and he was very toxic. He manipulates and lies to you to make you his spawn, his slave essentially. If you read his thoughts, it says he will never respect you. He basically reverts back to a worse version of act 1 astarion 🥺
@@Nictat0r It's all how you want to interpret it. But if you do the wisdom check (which is not "detect thoughts") It says He will think YOU are Demeaning YOURSELF... Not that he is demeaning you.. Meaning that he still thinks that you are too good for him, but you are settling to be with him. As for the "slave", again, if that's how you want to interpret it. I however see it differently, He makes you his "vampire bride" (as shown in the sex scene) He always refers to YOU first and himself second. "Yours and Mine, Alone". Calls you his "Sovereign" (meaning Queen), His "right hand". If you dont treat him badly, he has no reason to treat you badly. Buuut to each their own.
@FranWest. so why are you demeaning yourself? If he's not toxic, why would he think that? It's fine you like him if that what you're into, you do you, but he is textbook toxic. He was specifically written like that. He did a faustian deal with the devil for his soul. If you say and do what he wants, then he's nice to you. If not, he gets angry with you. Just like a toxic boyfriend. He doesn't love Tav and he's not even capable of it as part of the DND lore 😔
@@Nictat0r "why are you demeaning yourself?" Because he thinks you are too good for him, but you want to stay with him anyway. I love both versions of Astarion. I don't care what version you like, it just gets tiresome seeing every yt vid, of people picking the worst dialogue choices with him only and breaking up with him and saying SEEE He's horrible!. No other characters get that treatment, not Gale or Lae'zel, just him. Also, he did not make a deal with the devil for his soul. The deal (which was not his, that he stole) was for 7007 souls for his prize. His was not included. 7 spawn + 7k other "spawn" = 7007. Ofc if you are nice to him, he is nice to you, that's how ALL people work...LOL. He does love Tav, definitely not the same way spawn Astarion does, it is more obsession, lust, possession, but for a Vampire, that's Love. If he truly didn't care about Tav at all, he wouldn't even bother trying to turn her to keep her with him forever. He has what he wanted, he could have just left. In the dnd Lore - what he does to Tav is make her his "vampire Bride", going by the sex scene. It's what is known as "The dark kiss", But, I'm guessing, you don't want to debate or talk about dnd lore, so, let's just agree to disagree.
@FranWest. I love a bit of dnd lore debate 😃 I was referring to the part where it says that vampires can't love "Love turns into a hungry obsession, while friendship becomes bitter jealousy". For me, obsession is not love, so I'm not into it. Regarding the bad choices, I recorded both, so the other one is scheduled in a few days. I just put it second because it's the one I prefer, but from a psychological point of view, Astarion exhibits toxic behaviour whether you are nice to him or not. He says what you want to hear, and it's a lie, not just from the context clues in the story and previous dialogue, he can not love as a vampire. I haven't romanced Gale or Lae'zel to the end, so I can't comment on how they act. Astarion does make a Faustian bargain though, his soul for material things such as power. Faust makes a deal with the devil, and that is what Astarion's storyline is based on. Also, regarding the demeaning situation, we will definitely have to agree to disagree. Ascended Astarion is a pretty confident guy, so I dont think he thinks you are better than him. His views on spawn are clear. He thinks they are pathetic. He also threatens to make you a spawn to teach you a lesson when you reject him. Yet he uses manipulative language like "dark consort" to make it sound more appealing and less controlling, but as a spawn, he controls you, as Cazador did his spawn. But yeah, sorry if you are mad as the ascended astarion vids. I try to post both sides for fairness, but for me personally, I'm not a fan of a villainous character, so it's spawn astarion for me. Morally grey is as far as I go 😂
it confuses me a bit as to why he seemingly cares and even tries to manipulate tav into staying with him even though its obviously a lie when he says he loves tav he is so selfish so its hard to believe there is leftover attachment that he has. even without tav he has power over everything so why does it make a difference
yeah but once tav is a spawn he can control them forever. It all about him, he doesn't care they will be a spawn, something he clearly thinks is pathetic. Ugh i hate him so much
I mean unpopular opinion but I do think he still loves Tav. I think after ascending his love has been warped in a very twisted, abusive, possessive form of unhealthy, toxic love. Objectification meets obsession meets possessiveness. I'm not trying to romanticize ascended Astarion, just pointing out it's possible for "positive" feelings like love to become warped and twisted. He wants to turn you right away because he's terrified to lose you, either through death or just you choosing to leave him. So he has to make you his spawn asap. He doesn't care about the moral/ethical implications of him having complete control over your autonomy. In his mind it's all worth it for you. He's doing this FOR you. To protect you, as wrong as it is. He doesn't care what you think or feel. It's an abuser's mentality, make no mistake. He acts like he's unbothered with his whole "you won't be in my heart" line but really I think he'll be secretly brooding over Tav for a long time. Aparently there was even cut content that confirms this, with the Whithers epilog where he says ascended Astarion considers reaching out to Tav from time to time but his pride as a vampire lord prevents him. Also maybe I'm just biased but I think in a way the ascended ending is even more tragic and heartbreaking if somewhere deep down he still loves Tav but he's just too blinded by his ego and pride to see how much far he's gone. His vampire lord nature doomes him to lose Tav when they refuse to become his spawn or he loses everything he ever originally loved about Tav by making them his spawn and killing their mind. If you wanna get extra angsty you can even imagine maybe somewhere really deep down on a subconscious level he would never acknowledge a part of him forever hates himself for ascending and making Tav his spawn/pushing them away.
@scarymonsterzz fair enough I think a few people think like that. Personally, I think it is obsession. The line "I... love you. That's what you want you to hear, isn't it?" (Or something to that effect) to me that is clearly a lie to get Tav to agree to being turned.
