great video. I think I should mention that today most PCB boards consist of many layers, so just because it looks clear to cut, doesn't mean it is. Keep up the good work!
Did this mod myself a while ago. Works great. One thing, the volume is off for the Pokey sound if you just run a wire like you did. You won't notice it if all game sound is Pokey or all TIA, but if the game uses Pokey and TIA sound (like Commando), you do. I used a tiny variable resistor on the TIA audio line (I think) to get them right. Always planned to take it apart, measure the resistance and then just get a resistor, but I got lazy and the variable resistor is still there. ;-)
I assume you know you can lose the switch box and use an RCA to F adapter and put the cable from the console straight onto the F connector on your TV... (this is what I do with my old consoles that don't have composite outputs)
The reason the 7800 doesn't have composite on it is because it was actually developed and they were all manufactured a couple of years before they was actually released. When they were all originally built composite wasn't common on TVs. They sat in warehouses for a few years. Atari stop sitting on them in released it when they saw the success of the Nintendo NES. Before the Nintendo NES had come out Atari had switched their focus to 8-bit computers to compete with Commodore. Love your videos dude 😀
This is mostly true. The 7800 was developed in 1983 for a 1984 release, and actually had a test release in 1984 in southern California. However, the console was shelved when Warner Communications, unbeknown to the 7800 development and marketing team, decided to put Atari up for sale. When Jack Tramiel bought Atari he put new projects on hold while the company was shuffled around under his direction. In addition, there was a dispute with General Communications Corporation, the developer of the 7800, over who was responsible for payment. After everything was settled, Tramiel green-lit the 7800 for nationwide release in May of 1986, 4 months _prior_ to the nationwide release of the NES. Marketing for the 7800, coupled with a small library of mostly arcade ports, didn't help the 7800 after the NES was released. "Massive" side-scrolling games like _Super Mario Bros.,_ _Castlevania,_ and _Mega Man,_ along with fantasy adventure titles like _The Legend of Zelda_ made Atari's library of games look ancient. Also, Nintendo's licensing agreements with third party developers insured a fast-growing library of exclusive, quality titles for the NES that Atari just couldn't compete with.
I don't know this to be fact, but I wonder if the reason Atari didn't include composite support is because the 7800 was actually designed in 1983 to be released 1984, but shelved when the company was sold. After Nintendo brought back the market, Atari brought it out without making any changes to the original design.
This is my theory too. Guessing the consoles were built, boxed and warehoused, according to reports, so Ataru jus decided to ship them out as-is. From other reports, the person who bought Atari during the time of the crash didn't care about game systems, so I'd also consider that no adjustments were ever considered after the release. Would have been nice though had a 7800 model 2 been released with composite and improved sound chips.
@@SumDumGy You're right, they just shipped out the original units manufactured in 1984. The 7800 was actually released in a test market in southern California in 1984, and was slated for a national release later the same year. The units were shelved suddenly because after Warner Communications sold Atari to Jack Tramiel, he did a lot of restructuring of the company, halting the release of new products. Also, there was a dispute with General Computer Corporation, the actual developer of the 7800, over who was responsible for payment. Once all that was settled, Tramiel green-lit the 7800, which was released nationwide in May of 1986, _4 months prior_ to the nationwide release of the NES. Had the 7800 been more successful, I'm almost certain there would have been a second manufacturing run, perhaps with composite outputs and an integrated POKEY sound chip.
That 3M VHB double-sided tape is _very_ good. It's not your run-of-the-mill double-sided tape and will hold up for a long time. It's largely water-resistant and there's even an outdoor version that's weather-proof. It's worth giving a second look next time you need to stick two things together. :)
He mentioned this in one of his videos. He used to flip Apple laptops and started making how-to or repair videos about them. After the Apple flipping dried up, he started doing videos part-time. Earlier this year, he was able to leave his job and start RU-vid as a full time gig.
I appreciate this is an old video - the UAV (Ultimate Atari Video) mod is widely available now and is a huge improvement on these cheaper composite mods - and for only $25! It also adds s-video. Definitely worth looking into if you're looking to revisit this or mod any other Atari consoles. 👍
I second the recommendation of the UAV. You can install it without any changes to the existing circuit, leaving the RF module functional - you just need to add two resistors and a capacitor for sound. The picture on a CRT is amazing.
I see a bunch of comments from people acting like the guy making the video is an idiot with statements like: "how could he not know he doesn't need the switch box, all he needs is an RCA to coax adapter" True there probably is no purpose for the switch box now(even if he wasn't doing the mod) since it is an analog tuner and probably the only thing he will use it for is the Atari and if wasn't going to mod it could use an RCA to coax adapter, but has anyone commenting on that have enough sense to know that maybe he doesn't have the adapter and doesn't feel like either ordering it or going to a store that has it when that switch box works just fine(and besides he was doing away with that part of the circuit that used it anyway and he was just showing how it would have been hooked prior to the mod). And he was correct saying "you will need an adapter" when showing how it hooks prior to the mod as you would have either needed the RCA to coax you guys keep mentioning, or the switch box he used which just happened to be handy since he already had it.
The 7800 doesn't have a composite video output because it was actually designed in 1983, when pretty much no other video game console had direct audio/video outputs. The 7800 was ready to be released in 1984, but it got shelved due to the video game crash and Atari being sold to Jack Tramiel, who wanted to focus on computers. But after the success of the NES in 1986, Atari took the 7800s and games that had been sitting in warehouses for two years and put them on the market. Eventually Atari did resume production of the 7800 and developed some new games for it, but it was nowhere near as successful as the NES or its own predecessor, the 2600. And the 2600 and 7800 both do actually produce stereo sound internally -- the two audio channels coming from the TIA chip are independent and are then mixed together in the console's circuitry. But with further modification you can tap into the independent outputs and send them to the left and right audio outputs.
6:15 Atari was already having quad core Pokey ICs made for their arcade department. A pin-selectable duel core Pokey TIA IC would have done wonders for the 7800. What a shame. In that case, they could have kept their backwards compatibility but also provided sound that is superior to the NES in some ways. That would have been an edge. A couple years later, they rolled the dice on a custom audio IC in the Lynx, anyway. I can't imagine what would have stopped them from doing the same for the 7800. They were probably financially worse off by the time the Lynx came out and they were being run by Jack Trammell in both cases. Strange.
From what I understand the 7800 was originally designed to have an onboard POKEY, but Atari was trying to keep manufacturing costs down while also making the 7800 physically smaller (due to the ridiculous size of the 5200). So they compromised by removing the POKEY from the system board, then providing a smaller version of the POKEY for developers to install in their game cartridges. Most developers didn't use it because the cost of putting extra chips in the cartridges was seen as too high for a profitable ROI.
you know what I would love to see if you could find one to do the mod to could you maybe do a Atari jaguar mod to get rid of that nasty audio video cable. I think that would be a awesome mod to do and would help so many people as those cables are getting harder and harder to find and come by.
Goes against the point of the video but just so you know: You can get an RCA to F-Type adapter (www.frys.com/product/1524949) which will save you, or anyone else, from having to deal with the PITA switch boxes and 300Ω -> 75Ω adapters. You still need to switch to CH3 or CH4 on both the console and the TV so they're lined up (It's still an RF signal). When you use a switch box like shown in the video, what you're actually doing is taking the 75Ω RF signal from the console (this goes for all of the consoles with RF out), converting it to 300Ω using the switch box, and then converting it, again using a 300Ω -> 75Ω adapter.
Kevin Blankenship it depends.. if you've got other stuff hooked up via rf, you need it for ease of connection. it also depends if he received the original rf cable with his 7800.. if he had it, he'd have hooked it up direct.. here in Australia, all atari concoles had a male rf connector on the end, no rca.. But going composite video and direct audio out, is a better choice anyway. As rf in the vhf range(channel 3 and 4) is dead in Australia, no new tvs have it anymore... I'll be making this mod to my atari consoles so I use them on any TV.. of course, will just make the mod to composite and then will need a composite to hdmi adapter of some kind... as apparently, composite is also dying in Australia, in favor of hdmi.....
I notice a lot of you suggest using an rca to rca cable and an rca female to f-male adapter, I find that is a bad Idea because most RCA to RCA cables are meant to carry analog audio or low frequency base band video signals like composite video and work poorly for carrying relatively high frequency broadband signals like RF video, I personally use an RCA male to F female with a piece of rg59 head-end cable with f connector on each end, although in the past I have had good results using piece of 2.5C-2V with high quality-ish push on f-connectors along with the F-female to RCA-male adapter
7800 was supposed to come out before the NES came out that’s why it didn’t have it I suppose. The Famicom doesn’t have composite out originally but the Nes did so it’s…confusing.
Probably the reason it only had RF is because the Atari 7800 supposed to be released in 1984 but because of the video game crash they waited until 1986
God I love this channel. My face lit up when I saw there was a new 8bit guy video. If I knew how to solder i would mod some consoles but I always mess it up. Great video!
It doesn't have composite because it was design 3 years earlier and manufactured two years earlier. Then sat in a warehouse for 2 years before release.
@@musclesmouse 7800 was released in southern California in 1984, shelved, then released nationwide in May 1986. NES wasn't released nationwide until September 1986. By the time Atari was really competing with Nintendo (would have been 1987), the 7800 had been out almost a year.
Countless videos talk about those without any kind of permission. I think it was because of the negative feedback. Personally, I think it was quite silly and didn't like it. The idea was good, but there were many faults
I used to not give a shit about old hardware because I'm a futurist, but your channel has actually got me interested in it. In fact, so interested to the point that I've done lots of research and watched numerous videos on very early computers from 1940s - 1960s and onward. I'm now fascinated by how these older machines work because despite their obvious obsolescence, in some ways these machines are more complex than modern machines. It really took lots of ingenuity to actually begin the era of computing. Thank you for enlightening me.
Jeff Gordon Sure, he's a disciple of Marinetti - "zang-tumb-tumb-zang-zang-tuuumb tatatatatatatata picpacpampacpacpicpampampac uuuuuuuuuuuuuuu" and all that.
Nah. You can make an adapter for $4 in parts to use a Genesis pad with a 7800 if the game requires two buttons. If the game doesn't require two buttons, which is all 2600 games and the vast majority of 7800 games, just plug it in and go.
No don't use a Genesis pad on any Atari or Commodore. The Genesis pad puts 5v down the wrong line and can fry chips, especially Amigas are sensitive to it.
Genesis controller only works as a 1 button like 2600. I tried it as a kid. I wasn't crazy over the buttons on the side of 7800, they were uncomfortable.
dear 8-Bit guy. I'm young. Only 17, but I was always in love with retro end new tech. in fact I'm a collector(wanna be) too. I don't have a lot of money so I only own a few systems myself. But i have some saved money to buy games and stuff so if you start a kick starter for that game I'm going to buy it. I was in love with the Ultima games. the sound the story, even the graphic.Sadly I only played them on emulators. Any ways, I wanna say thank you.Your channel helps a lot. - with love from Hungary
I have been watching your videos for a long time and it's just crazy seeing a youtubeer go from a small channel rarely uploading and fixing MacBooks to a channel that is getting new subscribers at a amazing rate and the owner of that channel is now making 8 bit games and might be in a commodore documentary
I've noticed one specific easter egg, That 8 Bit Guy sometimes wears a t-shirt the same brand as what he is reviewing e.g he is wearing an Atari Shirt while he is Reviewing an Atari 7800 :P
@@ObsidianContraption Stone age Gamer, and AtariAge just sold out of 7800 Game Drives today unfortunately. but the 7800 game drive is a flash cart that accepts SD cards like the everdrive, and has a video output for RGB SCART, and component cables right from the cart itself
Why do Americans still use non-metric units? You had nice 3cm (30mm) at the bottom of ruler but you decided to use some bizarre 2,54 cm instead of just 3 cm ;)
@Den Tyngaste The only reason why we use the imperial system is because that's all that most use, simply because that's what we know. Most don't actually like it, like myself. I can read metric well enough, but in practice, we don't use it often enough. (Also I completely agree that the US is pretty trash...)
I like metric and I wish the US would switch to it, but to switch a country over to an entirely different standard is a huge deal and one in which our leaders and industries are just not interested in doing yet. For what it's worth, the metric system _is_ standard in just about all scientific and medical practices in the US.
The pal 7800 has the RGB connector of the Atari ST computer BUT only outputing composite, not RGB, even though it end with a scart plug... Oh well at least it's composite out of the box :) (Don't bother to get one though, it's region locked and outputs in slow 50Hz).
I had that exact unit! Might of been mine when young. (sisters spilled water in mine) You have the console only which explains the missing everything else. stored games and controllers in one box and consoles in other. I loved playing Xevious, Joust, And Ms. Pacman. The controllers are a step up in function but tended to fail easily. (switches dislodge from inside) not very durable.
Definitly a good idea to include both L and R audio jacks. This way, you're guaranteed that when 'subbing' this device for another, (disconnecting audio from DVD player and moving the cable to the Atari jacks), It'll play on both channels.
It not having traces on the surface doesn't mean there are no traces there. You were lucky here. PCBs don't only have traces on the surfaces, but also on the inside
I just hook my 7800 through a VCR, which doesn't give it as clear a signal as composite, but the VCR coverts it to composite so I can play on more modern TV's. However, the composite mode is pretty cool. I just have no experience with soldering and all that.
I realize this is an old video, but for anyone interested in doing this now the issue he had with the sound on 2600 games can be corrected by leaving one of the resistors in (R5 on the board), bridging it at the bottom to R6 right beside it and then attaching the audio wire to that bridge. Info can be found here: atariage.com/forums/topic/256230-av-modded-7800-missing-sounds-on-some-2600-games/ - Cheers. :-)
In fact it is better to leave R5 and R6 unaltered when doing this type of mod, in my case after figuring out this, soldering other resistors to see what happens, using for a long time the same pin 8-Bit Guy used for audio, I replaced R6 with a 22k ohm resistor (Original is 18k ohm, but I read in my multimeter 14.95k ohm), the levels between TIA and POKEY are pretty decent. I also found out that the higher R6 is, the TIA volume decreases and POKEY volume increases, and I routed my audio output to a pin coming from C9 (C9 is located right next to R5 and R6). I'm still documenting my observations on this.
not all youtubers that rely on patreon follow the exact same system/length of time before releasing to their youtube audience. in the end donate if you like the videos they post not necessarily for the custom content/duration of early availability they make available specifically for patreon supporters.
Great episode. This mod looks a lot easier to do than I anticipated. I personally have a composite modded system, but I did not do it myself. In hindsight, I now realize I probably could have.
+The 8-Bit Guy >does not output stereo sound NOT TRUE! Even the Atari 2600 did stereo, all the way back into the 70's! Even the first ever Atari cartridge, Combat, was in stereo! While it is true that there are only a few stereo games, they do exist, especially in the Homebrews. Fact is, some Homebrews *require* stereo for you to be able to complete levels. PIN 12 on the TIA is the RIGHT channel PIN 13 on the TIA is the LEFT channel
Stereo was never implemented in the final design though, was it? I imagine you could probably get it by using those pins but it's not like it matters much since most games were probably designed for the mono audio that was used in the end.
Not sure about the Amiga, but to my knowledge no NES games were ever programed for stereo, whereas many Atari games actually were. The Atari 2600 and 7800 have actual separate 2 channel left and right audio. The NES does not. Again, not sure about the Amiga.
Seeing that double adapter made me think of how I used to have my C64 hooked to my TV through breadties. I mean, come on, pay for an adapter? The computer was expensive enough!
Part of the reason the 7800 was missing composite support might be that it was originally to be launched in 1984. That lasted all of a month, and they shelved the system due to contract disputes and it didn't make it back to retail store shelves for the "real" launch until 1986. So it was already two year old technology by the time most people could buy it.
i recommend you check out the original xbox. it was a powerful console for the time, and has some good softmodding and hardmodding related things. it's the polar opposite of the 7800; it was advanced for its time and supported up to 1080i from the very beginning, if you had component cables.
Damn, Dave, you're pretty legit. Doing those hardware mods of retro computers and consoles, making your own c64 game (and it'll be physical, as well), etc.
Hello David ! I have a pal 7800 here in France, it comes with RGB scart connection (exactely the same as the one we had here on the Atari ST computers), but it works really bad... I only get a picture when the TV displays its OSD. As soon as the OSD goes away, so does most of the image of the 7800 ! No other consoles I own do that... So my only chance to play the 7800 is to have some OSD showing on screen which is distracting. Would you have any piece of advice about that ? I can send you pics and vids if needed :)
@@IcyTorment yeah the rgb is really bad on my french system I can confirm that. A pal Atari is always problematic unless modded or plugged on older 80's TV with analog chassis. But on my 90's Sony crt it messes up with the digital internals of the TV's chassis and will display only black until TV shows some OSD information. Imagine facing this issue back then and try to figure it out...
2:45 The reason the 7800 doesn't have composite output is because it was designed in 1983-84 before composite was becoming commonplace on consumer TV sets (they were of course on computer monitors, but not all of those had sound in 1984). When the 7800 was released in 1986, Sam Tramiel was looking to make a quick buck and needed cash and already had the 7800 and batch of games just waiting to be rolled out. He couldn't afford and simply didn't want to make any other changes - he was focused on the Atari ST computers.. trying to milk the Atari 8xx series computers a bit longer.. and then eventually the Jaguar.
Just a quick tip for anyone watching this that doesn't want to mod their console. Instead of the old TV/Game switchbox (Newer 1990's era TV/Game switchboxes actually also have a coaxial output, allowing you to skip the 75 Ohm To 300 Ohm adapter 8-Bit Guy had to use pre-mod), just look up "F-Type adapter". It's a RF to coaxial adapter that screws onto your CRT's (Or VCR's) coaxial input and accepts the 7800's rf cable directly. Bypasses the interference prone TV/Game switchbox entirely. Works for unmodded 2600's, Colecovisions, and most other classic pre-crash American consoles as well (and any CRT television that has composite inputs is also going to have the coaxial input).
I have kept 3 separate TV/Game Switch Boxes for my Atari systems (2600/7800/400). I have 2 separate specific unit switch boxes for my Nintendo systems (NES/SNES). I have a composite connection cable for my Atari 800XL computer system. I have retained 2 Color CRT TVs for my RF systems, but I need to find a replacement composite color monitor.
Hello! Just finished development on a PCB board for the Atari 2600 which provides proper buffered composite and S-Video from the system, it's been designed in such a way to prevent any luma leaking into the chroma for a clear as possible composite channel. It replaces the RF output (on the junior) models so no modifying of the case is required. may be able to create something that works for the 7800 too. Happy to provide you with a board and parts if you are interested.
I think the female coaxial to male RF adapter for 5 bucks shipped works great for the price and ease of use. You just put it on the end of the audio/video out cable from the Coleco or Atari and screw it on to the RF input on your TV. It takes the place of that stupid box, and it looks and sounds better. I dont trust myself trying to mod my systems, and Im pretty happy with the quality. I was really surprised. Eventually Id like to get my Coleco modded, and pick up a 5200 and 7800 and mod them. Between that coaxial to RF, and my S-Video switcher with S-video AV multi outs for the SNES - N64 - GameCube and an S-video PS1 audio/video cable on my CRT , Im very happy. Its no RGB mod, but for the price ($20 or less for the switcher, and like 7 bucks for each of the RCAs with S-Video) it cant be beat. You ll be surprised how good S-Video looks for how cheap it is. For the homeys in the Midwest, you can find that S-Video Switcher (RCA brand) at your local Menards for like $20 bucks. its 4 in, 1 out and they all have the 3 RCAs and an S-Video for all the inputs and outputs.
Did something similar to my VCS 2800, with only a single audio (I can just split the signal so the sound plays on both speakers) jack. I was thinking of moving the color attenuation to the side also, just in case I had to mess with the color settings.
