ATARI ST TOS Upgrade 

Did the job 😁

It's painful to watch

Nice one. A switchable TOS would be great for compatibility. I use a software TOS loader now, seems to work fine

You youngsters with your good vision and attentiveness :)

No harm in tripple checking!

They like getting their legs stretched, it's exercise for them

@@backofficeshow You don't really need a chip puller. Just bent a small flat screwdriver and spray contact cleaner on those sockets before extracting them. I have extracted so many IC's from Amigas, Atari's 8bit, Amstrad CPCs ,C64 and STs with that method without injuries from overstretching = )

Good luck! 👍👍

Oh that's fantastic! I don't get many views so when I hear that a video helped someone out it's totally worth it 😂👋👋

+Simon Lock that's numberwang!

I am not sure how useful the different ROM is in reality. This is my hacker ST and I do not really play any games (and it does not actually have a regular floppy on it!) but certainly interesting to look under the hood. I hear you break compatibility with some game titles so if gaming is your thing I would not bother for the different GEM desktop colours :)

You can always get a switcher though. Gives you the best of both worlds. Check out Exxos' site. I have a old style switcher. Does the same job though.

But does Exxos' switcher negate the jumpers? One would hope.

+Jeremy Holloway Almost certainly

+Gary Shelton definitely 👍

+Arturo T Thanking you kindly!

+EgoShredder it's a little annoying that the new ROM chips are a different type or else I could have made my own switcher 😒 As it stands these jumpers would be a big problem in me doing this now

Yeah I think you mean those motherboard pads are easily damaged, which I have done before myself. The dual arrangement is quite simple if you look online, as it is just a couple of wires between the two chips and then a two way switch. Someone posted a URL link below in the comments I think.

+EgoShredder Sort of. Because the TOS ROMs I have are different sizes they need different jumpers as well as their chip select lines to be twiddled on a switch. I think they will cause me hassle. No problem, I have a whole other STE for games if needed

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pZrTISByUb4.html

+EgoShredder Did you find the need to switch that much in operation?

Not much but then I used more serious software and hardware, but most games worked although the older games fared badly and that was when TOS 1.62 worked better. Also 4MB can cause games to fail and you have to use a little AUTO program, to make the computer work as though it had 1MB installed. Something like that, my memory is a little hazy as I sold all my Atari computers between 2012 and 2015. One thing I found was that my existing stock of TOS 2.06 EPROMs did not work in my MEGA STE computer, and I had to get a forum member over at atari-forum.com to burn a set specially for me. The STE ones I had instantly became scalding hot in seconds when placed in the MEGA STE. So you have to use the right model of EPROM it seems.

+EgoShredder ouch! I guess it was down to eeprom specification (similar to the jumpers) I read somewhere that earlier units used loads of smaller eeprom chips. Those would have been a pain to swap out.

A lot of those incompatible games have been hacked/patched in years since...

+Jeremy Holloway Not really found any myself yet

I cannot remember if it was from a source or just through experimentation.

Honestly, I wouldn't bother. If you are on 1.6 stay with it. The only benefit I can see it's that if you are on 1.4 you can't see HDDs properly so can't use a satandisk. There is a utility that lets you load TOS ROMs dynamically. If you have 4mb ram, just try this, I use it the most.

@@backofficeshow Brill thanks for the reply, ill pass on the TOS upgrade as I dont intend using an external HDD I have the Gotek but mainly use it for playing old pompey and medway scene releases! ... Ill look into the 4MB ram upgrade then if I can find anywhere UK that still does these! :)

@@ellhawkes78 People seem to want it because it has the boot atari logo and memory test, but in my experience they just add loads of time to the boot process. I think you make a good choice :)

I was always a fan of the ST for 'serious' work. Definitely could have been a Mac competitor if it had the right marketing

@@backofficeshow If you ever feel inclined, you can purchase a device called 'ultrasatan' which would give you two SD card inputs for hard drives. Then you can install the 'Magic' OS on the HDD, which basically makes the interface very similar to Mac. Way more powerful than standard TOS. lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=48 for ultrasatan and www.exxoshost.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=207 for MAGIC OS download.

Its definitely on my shopping list

Oh cool! Makes me want to experiment more on this machine. I'm going to pull it's gotek when I source an external HDD or SD card solution so convincing it to use bigger floppies will be neat. If I recall it needs a small hardware mod to enable this because of the timings

Could be, that's what a few people have suggested.

Mainly more menu options in GEM are the most obvious differences. If you only play games then it's probably not worth it. If you do regular GEM stuff you might appreciate the changes. I'm sure the are a bunch of other subtle benefits but nothing jumps out.

Exactly the same reason why you use Windows/Mac OSX update today.

Yeah, I saw that after the video 😂

Excellent I'll get that installed as soon as possible!

Is there any point in owning any of these old machines?

I would say unless you must run Cubase the answers is don't bother. The STE was still a downgrade to the Amiga, however if you ever get a chance to get a Falcon that was a nice system and a serious upgrade (Atari and Amiga) "Is there any point in owning any of these old machines?" yes, these systems had an environment/feel that is no longer available. Sure you can emulate the functionality, but you are doing that on a system with a feel of it's own. You have to go through the other system so you know it's not really the same. For some ppl that's fine but for others it takes away the environment. Is there any point to getting a vintage car? it's the same thing.

@Brad Viviviyal Where are you getting your numbers for the "10x the number of games" from what I could find it was closer to 2-3x at best (numbers I found from Atarimania & lemonAmiga) and later that switched around with the Amiga getting more games than the ST. As for the Amiga demo-scene it was well into full swing long before the A600 let alone the A1200 I think probably 1988 and I remember it as I was supplying hardware and software for some of the teams (mainly UK, France & Germany and a couple in the US) and I had to get out of that by 1990 as it was getting too hot. I can't attest much for the ST side of things except that (with the exception of the guys who had MIDI kit) had all switched to the Amiga by 88-89. My understanding is that Pagestream was the best, and best selling DTP on the ST and was available for the Amiga not sure what you were thinking?? anyway DTP was owned by Mac well in to the 90's MIDI on the ST brought Cubase and that was the powerhouse of the time no doubt, the Amiga did OK with Bars n Pipes Pro but it was nowhere near as big. You mention toaster but I think you missed the more popular and better selling apps the Amiga was known for, Deluxe Paint (a great paint program for the time and something the ST couldn't do as well) Sculpt-3D the 1st desktop Ray-Tracing program which ushered in many Ray-Tracing programs that the Amiga was swimming in. I believe the Amiga having the HAM mode and the ST having a limited colour palette for renders is why the Amiga dominated (Lightwave being a part of the toaster setup sits in this area). ProTracker (MED and OctaMED were my favs) being able to make real music on the Amiga without having to spend hundreds if not thousands extra was a huge thing again something the ST couldn't compete with. Multimedia presentations using programs like Scala was something other systems just couldn't compete with (they would need many programs) Vista a terrain generator that you could build animations with (it was great fun) I believe the whole AmigaOS being "decades ahead" has been overblown (sure there's always a few zealots but if we based everything on the zealots nothing would be true) but it was based upon how the Amiga multi-tasked with very little resources while a much more powerful (hardware wise) PC would still have issues years later. I sold my Amiga in 95 when I knew it was over and bought a PC (I had a Mac emulator on the Amiga that ran better than the Mac, and didn't want one) I think it was one-two years later I bought it back as I found that Win9x sucked so hard (so many crashes) it had some fantastic games, but I was so much more productive on the Amiga (even doing work for the PC) and it wasn't until Win 2000 that I switched back to the PC for doing most of my productivity work. I only have one Amiga, An A1200 with an OC 68040, Indivision AGA MK2, two internal storage drives, Gotek FDD, brand new black case and I'm waiting for my matching Cherry MX keyswitch (upgraded) keyboard. I have owned an ST but currently the only Atari I own is the XE. I'm not really a collector unless I have an actual use for it.

@@daishi5571 Atari STE a downgrade to the Amiga really!...I must have missed the Amiga midi ports..tut tut!

​@@patbutete1722 let me quote myself here (this could cause a rip in the space time continuum) "unless you must run Cubase the answers is don't bother" so I think it's obvious where I was going with this! unless you have an external MIDI device and want to create music using it the STE is barely an upgrade to the ST and is a downgrade to an Amiga. There is nothing stopping you from adding MIDI to the Amiga and it's not expensive unlike the MIDI devices of the time. Where the ST is better in MIDI is that it is integrated and technically the timings are tighter. I did a few studios (ST & Falcon) and when I asked a couple of the guys to try out the Amiga using Bars & Pipes Pro they said it worked fine and found nothing noticeably different (apart from the software obviously) Even after that, if I was asked what system to use for MIDI I said ST without hesitation but if you need a system to do more that MIDI I would have said Amiga (and the Amiga was better at making music if you couldn't afford MIDI devices) The ST and Cubase creates an ecosystem much like Mac and Quarkxpress, PC and Wordperfect, Amiga and Video Toaster (I tried to get programs from the time period) TLDR:- The Amiga was a better system unless you had the money to buy the expensive MIDI devices and only wanted to use it for that.

I really like this idea, I do l never considered birthing my own ROMs, which is crazy because I often have to do this for diagnostic cartridges. Excellent job!

+Meth Methanoid Not tried it yet, need to figure out how to actually use a standard gotek. No idea how to make an image on it

It won't work on STe. Jumper E6 just enables an option in TOS, but STe lacks an FDD controller capable of supporting HD floppies. It can be modded to support them, but it requires more serious hardware mod.

Wait, I thought that was due to Atari's licensed version of a Western Digital Floppy Disc Controller chip or something. I think the subject comes up on in the forums at AtariAge a lot. Or Atari Forum.

That's the equivalent of reading the manual or asking for directions 😂

+Aaron Cheah I think they can go to a certain TOS level

Yeah I think TOS 1.04 was the last version for the STFM. You can actually boot with a different version of TOS from disk using SELTOS.

You can use TOS 2.06 in older STs. Even before the FM models...the 1040STf or the 520STm. And the other variants.

TOS 2.06 is supported in 'normal' ST's but it needs additional address decoder because it's not fitting in the same address range like older TOSez. So while simple replacing the ROM set like in this STe, one needs also some additional logic circuitry drop in for that to work in an ST vulgaris.

That's exactly how we used to pull the buggers out in a repair shop back in the day.

😁

Absolutely!

It's a really nice UI to use I find. For me it feels most familiar to the original Apple Mac's. Recently I started coding again on my ST and instantly fell back into the swing. Unfortunately GEM never really caught on, but under the hood, it and the Atari APIs were rather mature in their implementation. Oh well!

backofficeshow nice... i had an amiga and a friend had an st. He preferred he st as it had midi built in which helped with his program he was building to play his piano.

Why is that?