To Jose: I had a close, loving experience with the holy spirit, I know what I felt, it held me close, it moved me emotionally, spiritually, and touch my soul ... and told me that you should send me $1,000.
Perfect summary, that's what this really comes down to. If someone else has the same experience that he did, he's willing to accept it at face value without any evidence.
Childhood indoctrination is definitely a form of child abuse. During childhood, we develop our "operating system", the tool we use to interpret the world. It's the basis of how we think. Teaching children to believe things they can't prove are true is like giving them a mental disability, it greatly hinders their critical thinking, open mindedness and willingness to acknowledge when they are wrong..
He missed it when Matt's statement was, "if you can choose what you believe, then choose to believe I'm right," so it's not surprising that it went sssssailing past when it was a more awkward construction.
it's like the call with carlos, "Why should we take the bible seriously?" "Sir, I'm not cursing on you, please don't curse on me." "...nobody''s cursing on you...." *HOLY FUCK!*
@Hans Slane dude where's your proof for that? other than a damn dusty book written by 40 flawed men. We don't know who wrote the books to trace it's origins. They coulda been drunk off their ass writing that. I dont think 2nd hand accounts of someone saying they saw jesus rise is viable evidence. Many of its stories can easily be seen ripped from the epic of Gilgamesh, an even earlier piece of literature. The bible has been translated and mistranslated thousands of times over to where you have 30,000 different sect and you all fight witheachother over which one is more "christian". Most of it is full of contradictions. The only "proof" of Jesus you have to go by is the shroud of Turin which has been debunked time and time again. There's no viable proof as of yet to prove Jesus or god is even real. What makes the bible any different from Greek mythology? Seriously what's the difference? The bible is just a myth to help people back in the days cope with world around them and what they couldn't explain at the time. And as the world becomes more and more technically advanced and that we can come to terms with saying "we don't know" instead of shoe horning a god, the need for religion to explain our mysteries go way down.
It’s amazing isn’t it? He doesn’t think it’s normal to question people. He’s a sheep who just follows what he’s told without question. How does he get through life like that?
My father is a retired southern baptist preacher (yes I know stop throwing rotten tomatoes at me lol) we have a solid relationship and my parents have known my position on the Bible and god. But he always says the same things as Jose somewhat I know deep in my heart he agrees with me sometimes because those are the times in discussions he gets angry and defensive and says I’m being disrespectful (I’m 55 hes 82 it’s all good really) I realize he’ll never admit it his fears are terrifying and his anxiety about death and hell. But I do smirk when he begins throwing a toddler tantrum when I make a good sound argument against that old book. I know I’ve made him think. I give him props the man I was raised by is mot the man he was when I hit age 30 (there are 6 of us 4 are atheist) Most of the time religion is debated a lot between us all we do ok 👍 yes it gets heated. But then we all go change subject and play international rummy, gin and poker. And have family quality time when we get together. He’s an old softie really. My mom she does pray for us but she also can’t stay upset with us heathens lol that long. They love us It hasn’t always been this way but we worked through it mom and dad were never the type to disown their children. I know I’m lucky ☺️ but oh how I wish they could step away from the indoctrination.
@@starlaminde3113 that's a nice story 👌 , glad you have that relationship with your dad regardless of differences. Sometimes age can mellow out the crazy a bit........rare but nice to hear. All the best 👍
Very relatable though to be honest, idk if it's just me being autistic but I really enjoy Matt's straightforward way of talking and I recognize all too well the tendency among many callers to NOT be straightforward but instead just go off on a semi-related rant. In a way the caller was kind of right, a rather large portion of people don't talk the way Matt does, they're way more vague and don't have a proper back and forth, which in my opinion is a really bad and ineffective communication style. If everyone talked like Matt then it'd be so much easier for everyone to communicate! It's totally beyond me why SO many people can't follow the basic back and forth of questions and answers, and yet somehow I'M the "socially handicapped" one
Jose: i will take someone at their word about an experience with the holy spirit. Pentacostal: the holy spirit led me to speak in tongues. Jose: that's crazy.
Jose is soooo incredibly naively and frustratingly IGNORANT! He plays the Constant Victim! I recommend that he gets fast-tracked into the Dunning-Kruger HALL OF FAME!
Christians be like, "If I feel stupid, it can't possibly be because I actually am stupid, or because my beliefs are stupid. Therefore, I must be the poor, defenseless victim of some evil genius' elaborate and sinister scheme."
Very common amongst religious people ... Even hardcore beliefs acknowledge the fact that not everybody believes, but they must be stupid and bad and what else, because they don't believe what is true. A vicious circle of stupidity.
I think the word you're looking for is dishonest rather than insufferable. His whining passive aggressive victim attitude is entirely constructed in a piss poor attempt to deflect questions he doesn't want to answer.
gazza595 Yes, yes. Whiny, annoying, passive aggressive, ignorant, defensive - which all makes him quite insufferable to listen to. He’s called before and he wasn’t any better then. Bloody awful.
@Hans Slane emotions are brought on by thoughts and thoughts are brought on by emotions...you’re not actually saying anything of substance there whatsoever.
I am quite disappointed that people here are so critical of this guy. He sounds like a young person indoctrinated into a religion, who is actually questioning things. So please do politely debate with him, he sounds like some one who over time actually has a high probability of figuring out the BS, but if you are an asshole to him - it just pushes him back to the seemingly accepting evangelicals... Save the being rude thing for the older people who should know better or anyone blatantly using religion for profit
Agreed. He's a self righteous little jerk. He's severely deluded and wants to stay that way. Jose, in his right mind, would be at least embarrassed and hopefully ashamed of himself.
Matt is getting better with his "savage mode" and I'm loving it. So entertaining. Also after gazing into my magic crystal ball, I can state that Jose got nothing out of the call whatsoever. His victimhood remains strong.
Well I love how the caller wants people to take him at his word, but he refuses to take Pentecostals at their word about speaking in tongues, since they believe things that he doesn't. The only people they take at their word are ones that believe what they believe. That's religion, and it demonstrates that its all bullshit. (Jose- I had an experience, I'm right!! take me at my word!!, someone else - I spoke in tongues!! Jose - "well thats just crazy")
Jose is soooo incredibly naively and frustratingly IGNORANT! He plays the Constant Victim! I recommend that he gets fast-tracked into the Dunning-Kruger HALL OF FAME!
Matt sometimes jumps on people unnecessarily and it can derail good conversations. And he complains about being interrupted and then he interrupts the caller repeatedly. Matt needs to chill
@Logic ....I don't remember anything in your comments that was difficult to understand; perhaps you're just concentrating on acting superior and forgetting to actually say something novel or interesting.
If someone told Jose a story about their experience with the holy spirit he would believe it if it matched his existing idea of what such an experience should be.
“Are we fucking clear?” Best response for someone hurt by words. Thank you Matt. People need to get off their high horse regarding swear words. Your hurt feelings about words is really telling.
Logic he has every right to be hostile when people claim to know what he believes. It’s probably the worst you can do. That said we are all humans with emotions so I just don’t care enough to worried over hurt feelings. People make the choice to call in; Matt and the other hosts don’t call out.
Caller says “yes you just take people on their word, just believe them when they claim something” And then he won’t just believe Matt when he makes claims
I've been talking to a person online for the past two months or so who's EXACTLY like that, someone who clearly has never been challenged on his claims before in his life. He'll make random statements that he pulls straight out of his ass and when I ask him to prove it he loses his mind, like he cannot comprehend the idea of backing up one's statements with actual facts. He loooves to use anecdotes and personal observations, so he'll say some dumb shit like "70% of people do X" and when I ask him to show sources that back up his statistical claim he'll tell me to "just go outside and experience the world" as if that's proper evidence
@@tylercampbell6365 that’s an excuse u make to compensate for how illogical the theist position is and instead of being intellectually honest u make excuses about it because u can’t reconcile the fact that Jose’s logic is illogical.
@@tylerdurden6917 Really because you guys don't have an answer either..You have played with God's chemistry set and have come to understand some things about it but still end with zip..If you ever figure out and verify all of those theories you guys have let us know.. Untill then have fun living in sin...😎
wlb2121 how? Let me guess I’m conspiracy theorists since apparently I’m awake to the truth while your not. Listen my friend don’t be shocked when it happens
"You're trying to make me look like an idiot." No, Matt is asking you very straight forward QUESTIONS, but if your answers are idiotic.... well... there you go! 🤷♂️
Caller: Let's have a conversation Matt: Ok, let's begin! Caller: Waaaaah! Stop having a conversation with me! You are being mean! My butt hurts! Boo hoooo!
Humans haven’t evolved much in thousands of years. They’re still mired in superstition and nonsense. And it’s scary that one political party in the US wants to turn the US into a theocracy. Those people are worse than ISIS or the taliban.
@Robert Letto Please demonstrate that I'm unwilling to accept theism. Give specific details. (Hint; you can't. Don't make assumptions about people. You're using a strawman)
@@zoggdawg8141 Exactly. I am quite willing to accept the idea of theism if someone was to prove the existence of that god. To not, would be delusional.
I don't know, I'm pretty sure that as the nurse dialled the number for Jose, she muttered "....fucking idiot" under her breath. Matt can't claim responsibility for Jose looking like an idiot all on his own. And he's [Jose sounds] old enough to know that picking your nose and breathing through an open mouth while trying to direct traffic in a hospital gown, kind of....factors into the whole idiot/not idiot calculus
"Dan was respectful and didn't try to spoonfeed me." Actually, Dan broke the truth down and put it in a baby bottle for José. Matt made him eat his FUCKING broccoli, and chew every bite!
It’s religious entitlement. Jose is literally just upset that that Matt didn’t validate his entitlement and wouldn’t coddle him by telling him he’s right. He feels entitled to have EVERYONE agree with him, and never question. So when someone asks even a simple question like “how can we know you’re telling the truth? he instantly panics, cries, and has a tantrum. Not just because he doesn’t have any way to tell the truth of his claims, mainly because Matt dared to ask any question rather than just repeat “you’re right, now I believe anything you tell me”, which is what he’s used to hearing. He’s so mad that he was exposed he had to attack Matt and say he’s just denying everything.
Yep, I've noticed that with a lot of callers on this show. They're right on the precipice of where they'd have to recognize a truth, and it's as if some defense mechanism kicks in ... like when a computer reboots because the operating system has become unstable ... their brain reboots with the Theist OS reasserted, and you're back to square one. Usually accompanied by the words "I completely understand."
The problem with people who believe in “God” is that they build their entire lives on a foundation of lies and are afraid the truth will set them free, and they don’t know how to start over. Cognitive dissonance at its best.
Matt: what’s your justification for knowing it was the holy spirit? Jose: my justification is knowing what I felt Matt: Jose: that is my justification Wtf 🤷🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
I see it as kindness and patience on Matt's part, despite the caller's constant evasions and deflections, strawmanning and veiled accusations. It makes for effective Socratic theatre as well. Any thinking person who observes this dialogue is bound to wonder why the caller is so desperately resistant to seeing the very clear propositions that Matt is putting forth. All the called can do is CLAIM to understand and then immediately deflect as if he hadn't heard a word, or complain that the use of logic is somehow "not normal" and he is being made to look foolish. The part about looking foolish is true, but nobody except the caller is responsible for that. And he can't even be honest enough to take responsibility.
Agreed. Religion's main method of spreading is through birth. It's why most religions encourage being "fruitful," discourage contraceptives, and vilify abortion
@Laura Streeter Agreed as well. Christianity originally spread when it was state mandated by the Roman Empire. Islam did the same thing. Convert, or die.
Matt gives him a simple example of logic. He can't cope with it so begins to accuse Matt of trying to confuse him. What can you do with a guy like that?
If Jose - GA calls again, ask him 'if a Muslim person 'has an experience' with their god, would he (Jose) believe him/her (a Muslim person) about the claim.
@@zackhall2681 People obviously can't just be skinny and have strongly defined facial features. It's definitely better to assume someone you don't know is doing hard drugs, definitely. Such a nice way to approach new people and get first impressions.
He's recently switched to a non-meat diet. He was overweight before but I think he's dipped a little too far under. Hopefully once he's got used to things he'll strike a good balance.
After listening to only a few callers, I'm struck by how confused and unable to articulate clearly what they believe and why. It's quite disconcerting how many people live their lives in this daze. Not dissimilar to being in,dare I say, a cult. I am so happy I've escaped those shackles. Love your show, even though it's hard to endure most arguments(?).
I had the feeling that he was so close to understanding something. Well, when I was a christian you couldn't have convinced me of anything, I had to come to the conclusion that there is no god on my own.
What we have here is someone holding a freshly dipped paint roller by the roll, trying and failing to hit someone with the handle, and getting angry that their target is painting them.
@Enjoy and Travel The World! It makes you glad to see Christians owned so you must be glad this is the only time you will ever have and everything about you will soon end forever. Odd thing to be happy about.
@Enjoy and Travel The World! ♥️ You're Romans 1:28. Why are you wasting what little time you have left here when you will soon be "destroyed forever" (Psalm 92:7). ♥️
Cloning is part of the new world order stay awake. This is why christians are ready and athesits are not. they are so asleep while christians are already for whats to come
I've been in a bar in Chicago durning a Cubs playoff game and felt the emotion that was in the room. Is that the holy sprint or just being emotional charged by the enviroment.
I was in a bar in Oregon with a buddy in 93, cheering for the Bluejays. Everyone else was cheering for the Braves. Jays won. The locals were not happy. We bought them all a drink. We were heroes. It was a miracle. Praise Hesus.
Metal shows do it for me. Chills head to toe. Lightening through my veins. And I also used to feel that way at church when I was a brainwashed kid. So I’m quite sure it’s not gawd
Last time i experienced a thunderstorm, i felt Thor's presence. Im in SoCal and i cant remember last time it rained/thunderstormed. Thor has forsaken this area
What can I do with someone else's personal experience? If someone has a personal experience of mithra are you then compelled to believe that mithra is real?
Poor Jose. He seems like a really nice guy, he's just been conned into believing things for which there is no evidence. The people that did that to him deserve to be punished.
Yeah I agree with you there. I feel like he's an okay guy who is just really pathetically lost. If he hadn't been raised in an environment that told him these things were real, he could be living a life that isn't founded on ignorance and he could have the ability to deal with truths and not get upset so easily when faced with them. I feel bad for him because he does seem like a decent person but I think he's very likely a lost cause. He never developed the tools to do anything besides see himself as a victim and convince himself that others are just manipulative. It's another unfortunate example of what endoctrinating young minds will do and the often permanent damage it causes. Really sad and frustrating. I hope someday he can turn a corner.
When he says you don't talk like normal people he is basically saying if you communicate with him in a logical way instead of just believing then you're not communicating like a normal person.
They believe that they use “discernment granted by the holy spirit” to determine what’s actually the “holy spirit.” Most don’t want to say this because they know it’s circular. I used to say and believe this. It took me a long time to come to an understanding that what I called “god” and what I called the “holy spirit” was actually just me.
To be plagued with the thought process of Jose, like that of so many other people of faith, must surely be its own punishment. A life of unreality followed by oblivion.
Dan did right by this guy when he started talking about his experience with the Hare Krishnas and brain science. I think that might be a way to reach SOME of these people.
"Feelings are unreliable when you don't know what you're feeling" besides just admitting to confirmation bias, someone should teach this kid about phantom pain. Heck, if you have something as common as sciatica, you feel pain in your leg, but the problem is in your back.
I wish more people would watch this because it's super important to understand how to actually assess evidence and why faith is not a good way of finding truth.
If someone asks you a direct question based on what you just said, and you feel that they're "trying to trip you up" You've probably got a bad premise.