Atla Palani vs Eleven/Hopper vs Abdel/Candlekeep vs Shorikai | CEDH Gameplay 

There’s so many viable strategies besides Oracle, I don’t think it will ever become a problem

I love using my human tribal Katilda to sneak in wins with hoof effects. No one suspects little 1/1 humans to all suddenly be mana dorks.

It's cute, but it doesn't technically win the game - I've explained why in a separate comment

​@@jordandietrich4236 it's literally in the Comprehensive Rules that this doesn't win. Doesn't stop your opponents from conceding, but if you read my whole post, my point is that you shouldn't play it in a high stakes cEDH tournament, as if there's any sort of adjudication you're the one who's going to get penalised, not your opponents.

@@HalcyonVentures Technicality, but this would be covered by the Magic Tournament Rules, not the Comprehensive Rules. MTR is the one explaining which shortcuts are allowed.

@@HalcyonVentures This is incorrect. The reason Four Horsemen doesn't work is because Eldrazi shuffle themselves into the deck. Neither Loaming Shaman nor Endurance can do that with this combo because their ETBs will resolve before they become 0/0s with the next activation, and because Endurance bottoms Loaming Shaman instead of shuffling the absolute worst you can do is Shaman egging into Endurance egging into every creature egging into Shaman.

@@jordandietrich4236 that doesn't help though. vigor only shuffles itself back in

He even got lucky to draw the preordain, then still missed :/

Greed

If you watched game 2, this is par for course for his keeps - heavy on rocks, light on lands to exploit the ETB, but Philip is exceptionally greedy even by normal standards

@@jordandietrich4236 I disagree, in the case that Atla only needs a creature tutor and any buff to go off, after he revealed that he had the creature tutor and then tutored with wish claw, getting rid of out of time doesn't make sense

@@jordandietrich4236 absolutely!

We did that a long time ago but it was so much extra effort for so little gain.

I hate that RU-vid showed your comment below the video so I saw it before the video even started

One of my three CEDH decks. Not my most played, but it's fun to pilot. I'm not only happy to see it played, but thrilled to see it win one of the games.

I think it will only have a chance to fail if the initial egg trigger has two or more eggs. When you have two egg triggers, it can flip into one of the recursion, resolve its ETB, then move on to the next egg trigger. It flips to the other recursion, resolve its ETB, then Mirror Entity trigger is next on the stack. Unless you can shuffle one of the two recursions before they die, the loop then fizzles. If the initial egg trigger only has one creature, then it would always flip one creature at a time, never allowing both recursions to stay in the battlefield at the same time. Then according to other comments under the video, the loop will continue and eventually guarantees you to flip the pinger everytime Endurance hits the field. One of the loop flow would be: 1. Flip into Endurance 2. Empty graveyard, does nothing 3. Flip into Loaming Shaman 4. Shaman shuffles Endurance to deck 5. Flip into Endurance 6. Endurance puts Shaman in the BOTTOM of the deck 7. Flip into creatures that are not the Shaman 8. Eventually flip into Shaman 9. Repeat step 4, this time shuffling Endurance + all of the creatures and pingers you have. If you flip into Loaming Shaman first, the loop would start at step 3 and it goes normally. It is somewhat 'deterministic'.

It is deterministic because if you hit both shufflers you'll end up with loaming shaman at the bottom of your library thus always hitting your pingers. If it wasn't for endurance's weird ability it would've been non-deterministic

I think it's not infinite though, but for a different reason. If both shufflers etb at the same time (multiple death triggers happened at the start), then they can't shuffle the other one back in when they die.

@@sirshylordy5538 no worries, atla's ability has separated triggers. It can't bring multiple creatures on the battlefield at the same time.

@@kofalmg3636 it brings them back at the same time with relation to mirror entity triggers, but having a shuffle titan gets the job done too

@@sirshylordy5538 like I said it does not, if it did atla would be worded "if one or more egg creatures dies... until you reveal that many creature cards, put them onto the battlefield" but because she's worded as an individual trigger, she put creatures one at a time. Hope it's a bit more clear to you :)

IIRC, most casual Atla Palani decks are centered on cheating out fatties like eldrazi and Blightsteel Colossus, making them extremely vulnerable against beatdown if their engine can't get going.

Endurance only bottoms cards, so even if you hit loaming shaman, leave it as the only card in the grave, and hit endurance immediately after, loaming shaman is guaranteed to be the last creature after you go through your entire deck

@@knightofthenorth926 it's not getting one creature at a time

It does but it doesn’t stop the loop. The abilities are already in the stack

Correct, the creatures enter as their printed P/T, then have a window where their effects can be used before Entity resolves

The new creatures that come from Atla's eggs were not on the field when the last Mirror Entity ability resolved, so they'll enter with their usual P/T until the next ability resolves. During this window, because they have haste, Jordan can activate their abilities in response, and if they have ETBs, they'll go to the stack on top too.

Blossoming Defense gives it +2/+2. Mirror Entity gives it base power and toughness 0/0, but that means it's a 2/2.

Layers. Mirror Entity applies in Layer 7b, Blossoming Defense applies in Layer 7c. So, it remains a 2/2, despite Entity making everything 0/0

They don't come as 0/0. They come with their printed p/t and became 0/0 only when the next mirror entity activation resolves.

They come in as their OG power/toughness, then, in response to one of the mirror triggers, activate their ability to ping someone. Mirror resolves, they become 0/0 eggs and die.

Ahh gotcha, man the stack is a mess sometimes for me

@@jordandietrich4236 that saves Endurance, not the other spell.

Wrong. Because there are only two recursion creatures in the deck, only one of them will be in the deck at any given time. Endurance needs to bottom Loaming Shaman which needs to shuffle Endurance, and the Loaming Shaman will never be in the deck at a time when one of its own egg triggers is resolving. Therefore, the loop is deterministic, as even with maximally bad luck the worst you can do is loaming shaman egging into every creature except the pingers, then Endurance, bottoming shaman, egging into pinger pinger, every creature shaman.

@@Frommerman you are forgetting that there was more than one egg so both shufflers could hit the field/grave at the same time. if you add a shuffle titan then you can keep looping but then you might not ever hit the pingers. having no eggs except the entity itself is sure to cycle the grave endlessly also but the same possibility of never hitting the pingers before the shuffles exists.

@@WrekCreationL Endurance puts cards on the bottom of the library so in the case of only one egg, endurance puts shaman on the bottom of the library making the combo deterministic.

@@durza7173 if things were different they wouldn't be the same, agreed

No

@@PlayingWithPowerMTG Did yall switch to live games or something?

Atla got the +2/+2 before, so her base power and toughness becomes 0 but since she got buffed, she doesn't die.

You're right - Mirror Entity bypasses hexproof. The hexproof is just meant to protect Atla from opposing removal. The real "protection" is the +2/+2 boost, which causes Atla to be a 2/2 when Mirrror Entity's ability resolves, thus surviving it.

@@DarkEinherjar but if I read the ability right, mirror entity ability doesn't exclusively affect creature's base P/T so Atla should be 0/0 no matter the P/T buff she gets

@@felix699 Mirror Entity's ability only changes the base power and toughness. It doesn't change modifications from counters or other effects. Therefore, Atla is a 0/0 with a +2/+2 buff, so a 2/2. Look up the rulings for Mirror Entity in Gatherer.

fwiw other Atla lines can use +1/+1 counters to get around the mirror entity, which it only affects base p/t. super cool combo that I hope to build one

True, which is why the combo works best if Entity is the only creature dying to its own ability the first time it resolves

Wouldn't it depend on how many creatures you have on the battlefield when you intially resolve the mirror entity ability? Because if you have enough creatures at that point you could definitively always hit your win conditions, and when you eventually hit Loaming Shaman you would then be able to choose to shuffle in only the creatures you need to continue your loop. So it would take a few extra steps but I think you can get it to a deterministic win

@@kingofrunescapepking but that's the scenario as described above where the combo doesn't technically work? There is a chance, however infintesimally small, that for every single activation, you hit Loaming Shaman and Endurance as your first two flips, so you never get to the pingers, and you resolve all of your stacked Mirror Entity activations without winning the game. A legal infinite, shortcuttable loop must be able to demonstrate a desired end game state, and to say how many iterations are required to get to that point.

@@thaneofstuff7340 Unfortunately not, as Endurance specifies all the cards in your GY (meaning you can't stack it), and Loaming Shaman has to target when it ETBs, meaning the creatures you want to loop already need to be in your GY when it flips. Ultimately, there's no way to ensure that you flip Endurance and/or the Shaman after the pingers

If they don't get the pingers, they simply shuffle back and try again. With an arbitrarily large number of Mirror Entity abilities on the stack on top of each other, it's just a matter of time. Also, at some point, Jordan would get Mirror Entity back and activate it more times. It would be infinite.

Because he can halt priority before the next Mirror Entity trigger resolves. the becomes X/X ability does not effect creatures until it resolves and only creature in field when it goes off. So it goes them entering -1,000,000 Mirror entity triggers-> Halt priority-> Activate ability to ping-> Resolve ability-> Restart loop. alternatively he could do this and place an infinite number of ping 1 triggers on stack before resolving them.

Because, Mirror Entity only affects stuff on the field when it resolves. That's why it needed 100,000 triggers. Atla Palani flips a pinger, they enter with their assigned P/T, then you respond to the next Mirror Entity trigger by tapping them. Then the next trigger resolves, setting everything to 0 again.

He wanted them omitted by choice. We honor all pronoun requests, including exclusions.

@@jordandietrich4236 shoulda had your pronouns set to Free/Omelettes that win was sick 🤘🤘

Well then you missed out. Because the other decks did awesome things.

Bye