Bob Berg of Thunderbird Atlatl shares his theories on atlatl weights ("boat stones"), their purpose as a counter balance, and why bannerstones are not atlatl weights. www.thunderbirdatlatl.com
Best theory I've ever heard about banner stones. I've argued many times that the hole size in banner stones would not have allowed them to be mounted on an atlatl and it's more likely they were used on the dart shaft somehow. I never would have come up with the idea that they were used to manufacture the dart shaft.
I like you videos. I like you atlatls also. I have had on of them for many years - nearly 15 years. I use it several times a summer - max cast is just over 70 yards, power is surprising, an easy throw on my lawn accidentally hit a branch on a tree, the branch was three inches thick, the dart went right through the center of it, it split the branch and penetrated about six inches. Such force! While slower than an arrow, it hits so much harder for it's speed. A broadhead would do so much damage. It's fun to train with. Your atlatls are well made, long lasting and fun. They are made right and inexpensive for what you get. Nothing has broken, loosened or worn out. When I take out my atlatl for a bit of fun, the cost is long forgotten.
A little physics here... Rotational inertia is affected more by placement of the weight than by total weight. The high rotation wrist motion at the end of your throw is greatly affected by this. As such, you'd be better off adding a heavier weight near your hand, than a lighter weight closer to the tip of the atl atl. A very fast wrist snap will put more speed in the dart than a faster shoulder push.
Also agreeing with you about banner stones, they were really hard to manufacture, I find it hard to believe they could have been atlatl weights, even if there is research about such stones making atlatl more silent but I believe it's irrelevant difference. Well, we'll never know :) Just typing to keep myself warm...
Wow! Thank you for your research. I love the history lesson. One generation forgets how the other lived. For example, my grandparents didn't grow up with refrigeration, no icebox either. They grew up on farms, but they didn't kill a hog every day. I'm a fan of Naked and Afraid. I have wondered why they don't make an atlatl or a field expedient re-curve bow...other than a lot of it is scripted or changed in production.
I've found two bannerstones that are now in my collection. One partially drilled and one fully drilled thru. It looks as if the partial drilled was discarded due to a crack that formed in the drilling process. The other has seen heavy use as it was once polished and is now beat up. I agree they wouldn't be weights as they are not really heavy at all. Also the holes are not very big at all and if your shaft was that thin it would be prone to breaking at that point. I actually just measured the hole and it's 1/2 inch across.
also I want to add that I am in the camp that the weight was not for balance but its inertia made the stick more stable during the throw and that in hundreds of throws they found that it DID increase accuracy even though it was impossible to analyze the micro physics of a single throw. You would be a good one to do lets say a hundred throws at a well numbered target taking close score then another hundred and take score again after a few days to rest maybe the test would have to be done several times for a good average. That way you are the one doing the work and hundreds of throws not me. However they do say its well proven with the weight--it stabilizes the stick for accuracy barely noticeable.
Bannerstones don't exhibit abrasion-marks that would support this theory. There would then be "cast-off", oversized, oblong-holed junk laying around and there isn't.
I have a stone I swear is an attlatl weight! If so I’d think it was used for heavy darts! In also wondering if these weren’t use in case you threw a spear but then needed to take on a close combatant with the handle which was already in hand?
Thinking a 8 ball would be perfect counterweight. Weither its used as the launching weight or lower down the shaft. A drill can make perfect work on a poolball.
Thanks for sharing, I made my handles longer and heavier to compensate for the heavier arrows. I' know where to get some river cane for lighter arrows. I like to multi purpose everything in my primitive tool/weapon set. Some arrows I will leave natural wood point so it also can be used as hand drill, would primitive hunters have done that?
With the points and triangular design of all these atlatl weights, I've always thought that they were a very good design to be used as a club to dispatch an animal after getting a couple darts in them to immobilize them. One tool two uses.
my atlatl got broke during a move and I found a great atlatl weight that started out as an atlatl weight and got passed along as the atlatl was phased out and it finished up its life as a shaft straightener with the resulting groove highly polished and halfway or more through the weight and smooth as glass. My question is what do you think of using an old pool stick for the best top quality wood and spring action for me to make another self made atlatl?? I will upload a video of the weight I found as it is quite odd and a great find to find one that was passed along and ended up as a shaft straightener.
Could bannerstones have been used as a friction proof handle when using a bow drill; spinning a stick through them to make fire? That could give them great ritual significance and make them a perfect grave companion- keeping one warm forever. Often found in graves. Any chance?
Hi I'm writing you from the archaeological back Waters of mid Michigan where I have found many interesting discoveries. Some may be appearing in a book soon. So I basically tied together the Jackson Grand Rapids River headwaters tribes with tribes around Manistee. But anyway enough about me I believe that you are very close to being right on with the bannerstone theory. I've often thought this myself. Depending on how flat the whole is and it's an entrance or exit depending on your philosophical belief that it would actually serve to cut and trim a fairy smooth shaft is a result of a spinning motion as you described. Unfortunately I have not found any pain or stones. I lived on a tributary of the Grand River and it was more than likely a hunting ground I my acreage although I did find many many many teeth which makes me wonder if it wasn't a funerary spot. I actually found a figurine carved in what I think is basalt yeah Heaven Got A tested which is our super rare fine for the tribez they came up the Potawatomi Trail.. it anyway I'm getting off topic so I believe you're correct that was your theory thanks for the video
Unlikely - the hole in them makes them weak plus they are extremely difficult to make. It would make just as much sense just to pick up a rock and use it as a weapon. Anyway that's our thought.
@@flintknappingtools then why do none of them have any residue from being hafted inside the hole? Hafted tools have residues left over almost always. You can generally see them using mild magnification and often even with your naked eye. I have buckets full of artifacts with residue of hafting. If they were hafted, that hole should protect the evidence pretty darn well but no one has found it yet. Everyone I have ever looked at was clean and that further supports it was never hafted.
@@williambrandondavis6897 Interesting about the lack of hafting residue. And why would an atlatl weight even need a hole at all? In this video he's using ones with no hole and it seems better. On the other hand flintknap's comment is intriguing. What type of performance did it help with? And would it work better with a stone without a hole or with a hole?
