Atomontage Engine - A Large Game-Like Scene

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Atomontage Engine features an extremely efficient data model. It packs a typical voxel to less than 1 bit in the memory. Future games will require this functionality to actually work on common computers. This video shows a large scene made up of pretty many voxels. It also shows basic effects like volumetric fog and dynamic soft shadows. The volumetric content can be modified in real-time.
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Опубликовано:

29 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 158

@TheTwober 9 лет назад

Interesting video, also very boring. ;) You definitely need some marketing guys.

@protox4 13 лет назад

Best thing I like about this is the fog at the beginning of the video. All the game's I've played when there's fog it only shows up when you get into it, and it doesn't even look good. Here it looks fantastic! I wonder what it looks like up close....

@AtomontageInc 12 лет назад

Btw the entropy doesn't prohibit large scenes.Scenes in AE can be huge (500-2000km; more can be combined to get even larger one). The real problem is that you either have: - a large low-res scene full of unique content,or - a large hi-res scene full of repeating content (you know what I mean, right?),or - a small hi-res scene full of unique content You cannot have: - a large hi-res scene full of unique content that is destructible in real-time, THE ENTROPY PROHIBITS THAT, it's a physical law!

@Themindforest 12 лет назад

It is pretty cool how you can change the detail of the volumetric atoms, I hope you will be able to one day get enough fine detail to make it look photo realistic. It looks great though already.

@ross817 13 лет назад

I would LOVE to see dynamic water using a voxel engine like this one.

@AtomontageInc 12 лет назад

The question is what you mean w/ "unlimited".AE,just like all engines in the world,is limited in everything it can do.A very important limit is one caused by the entropy of the data it processes.There's no workaround to fix it (not in this universe); the best thing I could do was to make it possible to always find the right ballance between memory footprint and computational complexity.So I did so.I focus on the real usability of AE,therefore I'm no fan of unlimited repetition of static content.

@Dth091 14 лет назад

This is very, very nice. I've always had some strange fascination with voxels, and this video blew me away with the level of detail at the start. When the engine is 'finished' (although nothing like this is ever truly finished :P), will you be licensing it to game companies?

@zotlerg 12 лет назад

Thanks for replying. "Hierarchy yes, but all depends on algorithms used." I was asking what the algorithm actually is though. :) Do you ray-trace through each pixel or render large blocks in sections, rather like Donald Meagher did in the 80s where he used 2D quadtrees in the last stages?

@JustineBieberxoxo 12 лет назад

Also, the first cheaper 4K screens are coming, and even phones have full-HD now, pc screens will go much higher res in the coming few years(4K and 8K on 24-30 inch in 3-5 years). Did you take think of this? This will scale easy enough?

@AtomontageInc 12 лет назад

This one was the lowest resolution scene I've shown, the newer ones are more detailed and shot with a camcorder and what you see there is running in real-time on an old laptop. Btw the resolution was still quite low so there are actually a number of ways modern hardware can/could render it - raycasting, rasterizing, using GPU or CPU... I still don't understand why so many people (usually non-programmers:) don't believe voxels are viable. We had the necessary hardware some 7-10y(!!!) ago already.

@jarblewarble 13 лет назад

@KaLul1 Minecraft is one of the best-known games with a fully destructible environment, but I don't know of many others.

@clemdemort9613 4 года назад

Looking very good!

@albusfenix93 12 лет назад

I think this technologies are the future of game graphics, but you have to work on a physical lighting for a best result

@TomFuIp 13 лет назад

looks nice zoomed out

@zotlerg 12 лет назад

Do you use 'distance fields' or 'k-d trees' or 'BSP' trees? There must be a hierarchy somewhere? Don't mind me - just fishing. : )

@HAWXLEADER 12 лет назад

why not? voxelstein 3d does that... even with ragdoll physics and breakable stuff that fall when you make them float...(it also has dismemberment of limbs...)

@AtomontageInc 12 лет назад

we will see.. I want to make it easy for developers to use the engine in their projects, therefore some version could be free, or it could be like 'pay what you want' or similar, cannot be more specific this early

@jarblewarble 13 лет назад

This looks like a potential successor to Minecraft!

@metabog 14 лет назад

How can you possibly store a voxel in less than one bit?

@rydude998 13 лет назад

If Minecraft looked like this I'd shit orphans.

@ShuddupChip 13 лет назад

2:57 Gentlemen, I give thee MINECRAFT!!!!!!!!!

@AtomontageInc 13 лет назад

@suckots that's the average value (read the discussion below)

@Sund4nc3 10 лет назад

make a Dune game NOW!

@Aoredon 11 лет назад

Lol, who cares if they look realistic, it's a game.

@KarlTheBee 11 лет назад

Really? You don't play the games because the graphic is too bad? -.-

@graspee 11 лет назад

That's a stupid reason to stop playing video games.

@TheGUARDIANOFFOR 10 лет назад

voxels still too big"!!!!!

@APlethora 8 лет назад

I'm curious as to how you created the data set (voxel information) for this demo.

@PandaMojo 14 лет назад

Compression is all about taking advantage of patterns. If you have a perfect cube of a single color made of 32x32x32 voxels, you don't have to store each voxel -- you can just store 'there's a cube here' in a handful of bytes (only storing e.g. position and size) -- much less than the 32x32x32 bits = 4096 bytes. Even this pattern will appear a lot in a scene with lots of solid underground areas. Depending on the scene and how you count, 1 bit / voxel can be trivial, or it can be impossible.

@lentoman 13 лет назад

NASA really should have invested in this instead of going to Mars, would have made it a lot cheaper to produce those photos of sand and rocks. ;)

@AtomontageInc 12 лет назад

in this case the engine saved frame by frame in some non-compressed format, I guess that crippled the performance, otherwise there was hardly a reason for such inconsistent framerate

@whoppix 13 лет назад

@oysi93 "blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah" (this string takes up 55bytes, each character is represented by one byte) "bl52ah" (takes up 6bytes/48bits) this way, I've compressed the original string to less than 1 bit per byte, without any loss of information, assuming the compression-scheme is well-defined and you know how to reverse it. This is an example, and this is not how you compress strings. But it's a simple proof that storing things in less than one bit works.

@jonas26a 12 лет назад

The landscape shots are pretty amazing. I think voxels have a bright future. Nice work

@AtomontageInc 12 лет назад

all depends on the particular rendering technique - sometimes rendering cube-shaped voxels can be cheaper then rendering dots or some kind of blobs or what ever.. but you're definitely right that with per-pixel details it doesn't really matter what shape particular voxels have on screen (if super-sampled)

@AtomontageInc 12 лет назад

which octree? ;) jpeg compression could be OK for color data, but there is so much more information stored in the scene that focusing on a particular compression (lossy or lossless) wouldn't help much. In AE the compression scheme is based on a number of different compression methods (not simply formats or algorithms), each reducing the footprint in a different way than the others.

@AtomontageInc 12 лет назад

animations are possible but with my current algos the performance wouldn't be good with too deformed objects, also lighting wouldn't look very well; textures are baked to voxels when meshes are imported, the polygon-mesh renderer is similar to any simple OpenGL based renderer out there, it supports textures etc. it is too early to talk about licensing but I plan to release some version that will be free thanks!

@AtomontageInc 13 лет назад

@oysi93 if you compress random colors (e.g. some noise) then you probably won't compress it that much, but a typical scene is very far from randomly colored.. Btw I'm not the only one who has reached a compression rate of about 1bit/voxel, seems like it's not that difficult :) still my numbers show that typically up to 4-8 voxels could be squeezed into a bit (statistically), the error introduced with the compression must be removed during data reconstruction

@AtomontageInc 12 лет назад

Hierarchy yes, but all depends on algorithms used. The data model doesn't restrict the programmer in what or how he can do. You know I'm not programming the engine for myself :) I know that the more versatile the data model is, the more people will make great things with it.

@AtomontageInc 12 лет назад

In real-time with all what is required to work fast in a video game without introducing tons of constraints? I don't think so. The complexity can be moved from data to code, but that's probably not a good idea when programmers and transistors are expensive and memory and disk space cheap.

@AtomontageInc 14 лет назад

@SikGamer70 a single bit cannot be compressed, a group of a thousand can (to let's say 753, or less if the information entropy of the data allows that).. and the cascaded compression scheme in atomontage allows pretty much more than that :)

@AtomontageInc 12 лет назад

cannot say when but if I survive this without being merged into something bigger then there will probably also be some very relaxed license, could be free for a version with limited features or something like that

@AtomontageInc 12 лет назад

there are noise functions but none are really random in nature and can be parametrized well; hm now I don't remember how exactly I placed the stones, maybe that was in a way a random thing

@AtomontageInc 12 лет назад

That will be completely necessary to actually make this project a success! Otherwise somebody else will release their project free and AE will disappear.

@MakoRuu 12 лет назад

Even though it looks incredible. It's too rocky. XD I used to live in the desert, and it wasn't THAT rocky in the sand. Lol

@JustineBieberxoxo 12 лет назад

How long untill you have something resembling a working prototype. I mean, it's cool to look at, really, but a simple small demo, a gamelike something of 30 minutes, 15 even, could really help this along.Just a sdmall coop thing where you send 2 people Battlefield or Hitman style to take someone out, using all the physics and chemistry you can fit into it. - I remember being very impressed with voxels in Armored Fist 3 and Delta Force 2 back when I was young. Higher res plus good physics....

@HAWXLEADER 12 лет назад

why not? if voxels are 3d pixels and voxel models are actually 3d pictures.. than animation will be like a 3d video!(not stereoscopic 3d but space 3d like video with volume) and btw if you look into the game voxelstein 3d it has voxel ragdolls and voxel animation... which looks pretty neat and these are voxels... not polygonal cube models that made to look like voxels(ahhm minecraft tools)...

@zehawk1 11 лет назад

1 bit? Anyone who knows anything about computer memory knows that is quite impossible. I do think this is highly interesting though. If someone can tell me how they fit a voxel in less than a bit, tell me please. Im curious. Keep up the good work! Unless this is a pre rendered video, then not as impressive.

@hartejoseph 13 лет назад

Your art work is of pretty high standard as well.What do you think of unlimited details point cloud system.I know their art work and physics are not the most mind blowing but for geometry it has put the bar up.Is your work compatible my be a solution for both parties if you brought your work together.

@jokegred 12 лет назад

One more thing, I have a couple of ideas for you: A)Try bullet physics. It's free and open source, and works well. B)Go open source. You can later close up the code, but you would be AMAZED at how many people would help. C)If you go open source, release the beta/ alpha for people to help Oh, and a couple questions: How is this with animation? Does it support image textures and regular polygons? If it will be for purchase, how much $ will it cost? What about menus? Other than that, awesome!

@whoppix 13 лет назад

@oysi93 Note also that compression doesn't typically act on single entities/voxels (though it might do that as well), but on many. Say "This block of voxels here, I'll use lots of data to describe the surface, but the inside can basically be described by 'fill with brown'". Or Pi, for instance: You can write Pi, which takes up 2b, but you can expand it into an infinite stream of bits that never repeat. It's a question of what's practical, feasible, clever and how much you know about your data.

@whoppix 13 лет назад

@oysi93 When you say each color takes 24 bits, you are talking about the data not being compressed at all. String comp. can get MUCH higher compression rates than 70%, but it depends on the algorithm you use, and what kind of text you're compressing. It's the same with colored dots in space -- the more you know about them, the better you can compress them. The question is just what kind of compression is practical in terms of CPU usage, etc.

@AlanColon1979 13 лет назад

@shogg ohh yea i forgot to mention, the vehicle is polygon based. His engine merges the best of both worlds. It's actually quite amazing and a stroke of genius. On his site he describes this scene and here is a quote: "The video also features an old-style polygon-mesh based model of a truck." So that truck you see here is polygon based, not voxel. It's a great idea IMO. I don't think i've been this excited about new technology since 3DFX came out with their first GPU.

@AlanColon1979 13 лет назад

@shogg I agree. most people didn't read his site tho. The main problem ppl don't understand is the guy doesn't have beastly hardware to generate the initial data (this would be done by the devs in the realworld, not the gamers) so to make faster progress he has to cut out options that would increase how nice it all looks to generate a level under 10 hours or so. If he had something beefier he could generate the terrain with more detail in a reasonable amount of time, thats how i understand it.

@bwrightau 13 лет назад

@suckots Compression can reduce an expression to less then 1 bit. Take for instance the sequence: R R R R R R R B which could be represented as 7 R 1 B. In this instance you can see how each value of R is less then 1 bit in effect.

@InternetLad 13 лет назад

@jarblewarble a 2d side scroller called "Cortex Command" is another one, reminiscent of the old style "tank" games where you'd lob things back and forth but fully fleshed out. it's indie and still in development but still hella fun

@JohnnyVa7 12 лет назад

Yeah, excactly. I didn't know that depending on the rendering technique, voxels could be cheaper for pc than dots and I don't understand quite well how would this happen, since the dot is a 1-faced mesh, whereas voxels are 6-faced. Anyway, I am not a technical or porgramming expert, so I get easily confused sometimes :P

@maracachucho8701 12 лет назад

True, but that still doesn't mean it's not possible, it just means you'd have to add some extra stress to the system. By the way, when you talk about entropy, I hope for your sake it's got nothing to do with thermodynamics.

@HAWXLEADER 13 лет назад

now create a cool racing game with this technology where you will be able to shoot the racers with weapons and bullets will remove voxels and weapons will cause random partial damage that will affect physics

@zotlerg 12 лет назад

Colour is only data. 1D is MP3, 2D is JPEG, 3D is just an extrapolation.There's so many problems that conflict with modern GPU rendering like competing with reflection, movement, specular reflections, multiple real-time light sources and shadows. How can you deliver this as any alternative?

@saibamoe 12 лет назад

I just have to say that the terrain looks fucking beautiful , you may not be able to animate humanoids or creatures , for those you mays still have to use polygons , but for a terrain let's say middle-ware addons it's gorgeous . I can't iamgine how you would morph a face with voxels :( .

@outbackshaqYT 13 лет назад

neat when I saw the voxels expand, it made me wonder if further away scenery could just be told to be larger, and render slightly blurry. that way it would seem like there was less detail, but it would be just a quick command for something like zooming in on a scope to get high detail

@LinesGrey 13 лет назад

@monstercameron in my opinion not. At 2:55 there is no compression on it (as they show this feature) AND -if they turned it off for the truck- at 4:53 you see the triangle lightning caused edges. (if you want to see it ;D ) ..but better you get an answer from the producer!

@nichtdiemama11 12 лет назад

I stopped playing video games in 2008 because I was pissed that they still werent photorealistic as promised years before. Since then, this video is the first and only good thing about graphic development I have seen. Looks very promising.

@shogg 13 лет назад

too many people are focused on the artwork in this scene, this is to show the capabilities of an engine that is coming along tremendously and that voxel technology with physics and animation is practical afterall

@XenonMan1 13 лет назад

Thank God I am part of the Data Realms Family. 2 things I am hoping for: 1) That this game turns out to be a huge hit. 2) And that I donate $50 to the developement of this game.

@HAWXLEADER 12 лет назад

you can randomize it or just draw it.... like you do in sandbox 2 for crysis... there are some yt vids that shows 3d voxels landscape editting...

@Forget43 12 лет назад

Is there a sort of "geometric smoothing" that can be done between voxels in areas that would look good or on small scale stuff or would it be a waste of time/make no sense?

@ackkipfer 11 лет назад

can u make so small like atoms? (like euclideon) ? cause no one like blocks, out side minecraft :D but i will like to test in a demo this engine, that's for sure!

@hedanit0 12 лет назад

The camera movement seems very inconsistent. Is that because the engine is loading in voxels and lagging because of it, or is it just the recording software?

@MadocComadrin 13 лет назад

@Therysinx Aside from the fact that Euclideon is a scam, this already has physics and actual scenes instead of some piece of crap island full of repeated objects.

@saibamoe 12 лет назад

Imagine a mass effect 3 made with voxels , and to look as good as the poly one , facial aniamtions would be hard to pull off from developer's view .

@LightningBeast 13 лет назад

holy shit ! imagine an rts game like this ,where you can zoom in to real person size and just watch the whole shit like a movie or something

@KaLul1 13 лет назад

This looks so fucking awesome!!!! That means... future games with full destructible everything??? :D OMG!!!! I am happy to live in 21th century

@BioClone 11 лет назад

lol, then dont follow the real life aswell, what about colonize the moon on 2010? xD. Games isnt just about graphics

@maciejgru1 12 лет назад

Wow, it's amazing engine. It's like very very very..... high resolution Minecraft. (I know it sounds stupid but it's right)

@hartejoseph 13 лет назад

@MiJaEllis Its still a blocky up close like I say put the two together and you would have an awesome beast

@InternetLad 13 лет назад

who else watched the whole thing waiting for an explosion to show off destructible enviroment that never came.

@SikGamer70 14 лет назад

Sounds like a hoax. How can you get smaller than a bit? I'm pretty sure you can't compress a bit to make it any smaller.

@thespaceboon101 12 лет назад

I think that truck was to big at first I was like WOW look at those canyons then I was like -_- when I saw the truck

@youmakeitwhatitis 13 лет назад

@monstercameron no the website says the truck is a polygon model. I think part of the idea here is hybrid rendering.

@ackkipfer 9 лет назад

Please, release a playable demo :D

@jisatextraservdotnet 11 лет назад

1 bit is statistical. You compress the whole stuff, keep the global size and divide by the number of voxels.

@zotlerg 12 лет назад

Have you thought about compressing the octree with a 3D Jpeg like algorithm? At least on the smaller blocks.

@Reavenk 13 лет назад

Freaking sweet. Is the collision detection between the truck and terrain using voxels, or a geometry proxy?

@bbrtki 12 лет назад

awesome, the sand gets moved. good progress, but youll need to add it to an existing game of some sort.

@IXconnorXI 13 лет назад

I have no idea what any of this means but if it means better graphics then I'm 100% for it :)

@MGinshe 14 лет назад

@monstercameron No, the truck is made of Polys :) Not sure if you even still want to know xD

@ross817 12 лет назад

I'm guessing this was pre-rendered. There's no effing way you're doing that in realtime.

@maracachucho8701 12 лет назад

Actually, with procedurally generated content, that is very possible.

@edo9731 12 лет назад

is this unlimited?? because in your videos i see only smaller platforms.

@Forget43 12 лет назад

(Or has it already been done and I just haven't been paying attention.)

@allanchartrand 11 лет назад

so you play a game for it's graphics or something? not the story?

@akaltar 12 лет назад

What are you using to render this? OGL? DX? OCL? something custom?

@depthsofabjection 13 лет назад

guess what dude....you're gonna change how we play games ;)

@AverusMuto 13 лет назад

thats is awesome hey can you help me make my game engine

@monstercameron 14 лет назад

i thought that a bit is the smallest unit in comp storage?

@raingloom5334 7 лет назад

Where is a playable demo of this? The last post on their blog was in 2015.

@jisatextraservdotnet 11 лет назад

... and maybe it is even possible to get 0.5bit per voxel.

@minhtri7821 13 лет назад

@AtomontageEngine Now i have to find SikGamer70's comment

@jimbo80982 13 лет назад

@AtomontageEngine and at the cost of cpu time surely?