Attempting De-Extinction 

Another problem too is; who is going to teach these northern white rhinos to BE northern white rhinos? It is a problem more pronounced in elephants; where having all the old males be poached leaves the younger generation of males without someone to teach them how to be an elephant. Maybe the problem isn't as pronounced in rhinos; but it is another angle to consider.

The hybrid calf: is it fertile? How much have these two species differentiated? I wonder if a better approach might be mixing the northern rhino samples into the extant southern herd to increase the genetic diversity of the whole group, rather than create another bottleneck situation.

I wonder how long it took the rhino to get diagnosed with endometriosis. It often takes humans well over 10 years even while knowing they have it.

Really weird watching Jessi bring the serious energy rather than the kids show energy. Glad to see her role increasing though, great presenter!

Among these "whether we should" questions is also about the rhino's impact on the wider ecosystem. More specifically, are they a keystone species or not? Because if they are and they're left to die out, it's not _just_ that rhino population that has been devastated.

If preserving them includes preserving their range and protect them from poachers, it would be worth it but more efforts need to go to protecting all species that are still here.

The last point seems kinda odd to me. If we bring them back but don't do enough to address poaching, they *could* go extinct... But if we don't bring them back then they *will* go extinct, even if we end poaching tomorrow.

Welcome back from Animal Wonders Montana Jessi. Don't remember Jessi over here on the main SciShow since before C-19.

This is a fantastic summary of all the big relevant issues with severely endangered species. Not just from a genetics angle, but from actually adressing the systematic issues that caused the near-extinction in the first place, looking towards the sources of problems instead of just trying to fix problems after they've already happened. Thank you sci show!

Fun fact. The name white rhino has nothing to do with the animal's color. It comes from the afrikanns word "wyd" that means "wide", and refers to the animal's wide square mouth. the word was misinterpreted by early english settlers as "white".

Ethical questions are very important when discussing these technological "fixes" to man made problems. From "should we use IVF to produce northern rhinos?" to "should we put all our climate efforts into carbon capture?" it feels like more energy and money go into after the fact fixes instead of addressing causes.

While not touched on here, another point is whether limited conservation funding should be spent on large charismatic species (eg, pandas, a rhino subspecies) when many other entire ecosystems or less charismatic, but highly important, species are at risk but get much less money. As an entomologist I'd be thrilled to have a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the funding put into saving these big mammals. I think all species are worth saving, but unless humankind miraculously agrees conservation is a high priority and gives us more funding, there are ethical considerations about which species or systems get the most money poured into their protection. More of that thought process needs to be the ecological ramifications of losing that species rather than how cute, cuddly, well-known it is, i.e., favoring mammals most of the time. We really need more funding if we want to give attention to all species, particularly the ones from highly unique evolutionary lineages or that play keystone roles in ecosystems. The last point she makes is a huge one - we need to address core problems of habitat loss & degradation, or those species won't last long once reintroduced. That's where more conservation funding needs to come in, to restore and protect the habitats, work with local communities to foster support and facilitate the community taking part in protecting their natural heritage, and get legislature passed to ban or reduce harmful practices that continue to contribute to habitat destruction. With such limited funding, putting it into a process that then fails because we didnt address the core threats is devastating. Ideally conservation is implemented primarily at the ecosystem level and only when needed at the species level; this preserves the natural processes, species interactions, and land they occur on, and protects the many many species we do not know enough about to protect, do not know are there, and do not have any public awareness or support. We try to get around limited funding by trying to use charismatic species as umbrellas for saving their whole habitats and thus all the species in them.

Awesome to see her on here not just sci show kids!

I've recently watched a zookeeper and the White rhino they have at the zoo play with each other like he was a puppy. It snorted and sorta hopped kicked and ran about every time he peaked around a corner, then they'd come up to the barrier between them and he'd nuzzle his hand for some skritches around the pointy boop and they'd do it again.. We are fortunate to have a rescue for these animals, it has a shady past like all zoos do if they're being honest. But it started local and out of a need to conserve. And the pivot they've made over the years to education and proper enclosures. Makes me want to hop around like a happy rhino. And if you're all, the animals are always just lying around or I never see them.. go in the early morning and not in the middle of the day when it's all warm. Over the decades I've been going they've come light years in the way they are.

Thank you for illustrating the larger scope of this problem. Heartbreaking all around.

Love seeing Jessi here, showing her knowledge, as well as the excellent Sci Show team (research, writing, sound, etc!) I enjoy your work very much.

We caused these problems, its time we do eveything we can to try and fix it. And we''ll learn a lot along the way

Since we are the reason it's gotten to this point, from overhunting to poaching to habitat destruction, it seems we should be honor-bound to fix what we effed up. Then again, what about the other hundred species a year we drive to extinction? I feel we are also honor-bound to stop the disappearances of those species, TOO.

I think if we are largely responsible for something dying off then we should try to bring them back. As for protecting them, keep them in zoos until it's safe to release them, that means among other things, paying people to keep them safe from poachers while educating people so they don't even want their horns.

I think the solution is a pretty simple one. Yes save the rhinos. But also add more funding to protection efforts too. Poaching is a human mistake, and it should be one fixed. Regardless of if you save the rhinos to have them poached again, what do you think will happen to other animals in the future? Once the rhinos are gone they'll move onto the next lucrative thing. Which could be alligator skin or lion pelts for all we know. We want to be conservationists to animals? Then we have to not just keep them around, but keep them safe too. "But how can we protect them from poachers" First off, disarm them. Most poachers are in places where hunting weapons such as rifles and tranquilizers are easy to obtain. Remove the ability to purchase or acquire them and it'll severely hinder them. Lock down areas where black market exchange is easy to pass through and it'll double down. Second, surveillance. A lot of wildlife conservations have surveillance but it's obviously not enough. There needs to be a form of monitoring that can cover entire grounds. I propose a satellite based surveillance system that can monitor entire fields. We have the ability to take satellite pictures and videos for mapping and GPS but we can't use it as monitoring to aid conservative efforts? We could also have intrusion detection implemented alongside it. A system that detects if someone wearing a specific tag enters and is cleared to be there, whereas someone who isn't allowed to be in that wildlife sanctuary would alert the system. There you go 2 things we can already do to help protect wildlife from poachers. A lot of people assume we already do these things, but we really don't. We have weak half-assed forms of them.

Speaking more generally about Rhinos, there was a plan conserve them by actually farming (ranching) them for meat AND [horn]. the idea being that, much like the wide and cheap availability of bull horn, farmed rhinos could be strategically released into the wild once the price of [horn] tanks due to availability, essentially removing the motivation for poaching

Wow. This was almost certainly the best SciShow video I have *_ever_* seen. And I think the reason is that the presenter didn't just appear to be a talking head reading a script. For whatever reason, she seemed to really _know_ her stuff. This was great.

I went to a zoo in Thailand where they had the most amazingly gentle and tame rhinos. Seriously… it was so friendly they literally let anyone interact with it. It blows my mind when they open their mouth and you see such huge teeth on such a gentle and friendly animal. Total opposite of a hippo. FWIW, the giraffes were also surprisingly tame and docile but they never struck me as aggressive like a horned animal.

Jessi was the perfect host for this episode. I follow Animal Wonders, and it's visible how much she cares for animals, and is worried about them living their own best lives

Hi Jessi! Great to see you back over here too.

What a wonderful host! (Jessi Knudsen Castañeda). Love her voice, and her clear presentation. No rushing, but not to slow. Very pleasant to watch!

Yes it is. Lets do it.

JESSI!! welcome back

Yes

Of course, this should be done. Not only could the Northern White Rhinos be saved, but the knowledge gained would help with saving other endangered species. Furthermore, the newly-revived rhinos would not have to be released to the wild right away. There are plenty of zoological gardens and game parks--look at all the ones in Texas--where they could be kept until their old territories were secure enough that they could be reintroduced into them. The objections to this happening remind me of the ones that purists made who opposed rescuing the California Condor and wanted to just let it go extinct. Even before I saw the condors' sailing in the sky above the Grand Canyon in Arizona, I knew that these people were destructive idiots, and viewing the condors in the air just confirmed that knowledge.

She is such a wonderful presenter. Glad to see her beyond the kids’ show setting. Wonderfully interesting topic, as well. And there is my offering to the almighty algorithm!

Jessi on Scishow Prime? Yes, please!

Even if we only have a few captive white rhinos at least they are here! Once they are gone it’s much harder or impossible to bring them back. If we can keep a few alive to learn from it’s still worth it.

WELCOME BACK!!!!

YES!!!! Jessi doing SciShow!

Always a treat to see Jessi hosting Sci Show!

Rhinos are amazing awesome creatures and we should try to save them.

Oh it's so nice to see Jessi again! I've always liked how passionate she is about animals.

One could potentially induce mutations in some embryos (also via CRISPR, if one wishes to do so, but also untargeted) to reduce bottleneck effect in future generations

Thanks good Lady

Yes we should

Of course, I'll watch the video now.

We need to save the great white rhino. Where else is Ace Ventura gonna hang out?!

I think we should focus on conservation and ending poaching first. Seems more viable than bringing back the Woolly mammoth though.

Why not divert all the efforts to prevent the currently existing biodiversity left from getting to this stage??

Having an entire video of portraits to choose from you went with that one for the thumbnail...👏

I love her channel !

Hi Jessi!

Masterpiece theatre with Jessi, wonderful

Something I haven't seen considered much in this particular case is the question of what exactly we're losing: that's two individuals of a SUBSPECIES. On a biological level they might be different enough but ecologically they likely serve the same function as the southern white rhinoceros. In some cases subspecies are more highly adapted to a specific environment but if we cannot protect those environments from turning into different landscapes that possibly the other subspecies would thrive in, there is a case to be made for introducing the southern subspecies to inhabit Africa north of Congo. I see this case more as an experimentation but not particularly one that shows the best, remorseful side of humanity. Before they were the last two, there were a few dozen, before that some hundreds, and the alarm bells didn't ring loudly enough. Most of human societies have inherited the colonial, capitalist drive to take, exploit and destroy life and this right to exist before other species lies at the core of most conservation problems.

Fascinating video! It's terrible that we have to resort to IVF to preserve a species that we've caused their near- extinction. 😢

Query... where would resources be taken away from to do this? That is also an aspect of such intense investments.

It's funny how we wouldn't need to go through all this trouble if only we know how to control our greed.

There is nothing to lose. Better we get the rhino back with some risks than losing it forever. Even if there might be genetic problems. We might fix them in the future. Even if poaches will kill them. We will still at least have some animals in zoos that have a chance to rewild later. But if we don't use this last chance this species will be lost forever. So let's do everything in our power to keep the species alive.

Hi I'm 18 and I want to study ecology and conservation after I graduate high school at the end of this year. Thanks for the video very interesting and also applicable to the ongoing efforts of de extinction of several species.

Animal Wonders Montana!

I ❤ Jessi. She's awesome!

This kind of knowledge is going to be vital in the future. It's going to be an essential part of our stewardship of this planet and the cosmos beyond it.

Jesse! so good to see her

You forgot to mention your excellent channel Animal Wonders Montana! 😊

For one second, I thought I was watching Scishow Kids. I was about to call my kids saying there is a new episode.

Yes. We need to try at the very least.

There's two more important questions, imo, that weren't brought up in this video: -Should species that went extinct for reasons other than human interference be brought back or saved in this way? After all, they failed evolutionary. -If not, then how do we even figure out whether human interference played a part? Habitats could change because of climate change, but they could also change naturally. Species might be overhunted by other animals because those animals are staying away from humans, or they might just not be capable of escaping the hunters. A disease might be introduced through human movements, or it might just appear by chance.

Yes… if it’s the fault of humans that these beautiful creatures are hunted to death then yes, save them.

One question that never comes up with these hypothetical scenarios. How many generations do you have until you start seeing dangerous levels of inbreeding? Most of these animals are going to be siblings, and with a herd of just a dozen animals you have only so many generations before incest becomes wholly unavailable. Especially if, again, most of those animals are already related to at least one other individual. There’s a serious risk of fatal developmental disorders.

We already messed with their livelihood big time. Helping them survive by any means should be a no brainer.

I heard about this when my family did a tour of the San Diego Safari Parks as they have some of the rhino's they plan to use

The safest way to protect them from poaching is to have them in captivity. But then, does that count as ‘reviving’ or ‘rescuing’ the species?

I think we should give it a try. It's the least that we can do considering we're the ones that brought them to the absolute brink of extinction.

When thinking about the ethics of reviving an extinct species (or conservation efforts that rely on captive breeding in general), I think it is also vitally important to think about the well-being of the individual animals that will live in captivity their entire lives serving to boost the genetic pool (and possibly provide an avenue for education). In my opinion, the best life for a wild animal is the wild, assuming they have the ability to survive. Captive breeding programs rely on a proportionally large number of individuals never experiencing true freedom or a stable life, depending on the species. I bring this up because it is a topic of debate in the wolf conservation community. I work for an organization that participates in federal captive breeding programs for American red wolves and Mexican wolves. Our position as an organization is essentially the same as my own: we will only participate in these programs so as long as efforts are being made to reintroduce animals to the wild; otherwise, why are we breeding these animals? Not only will the vast majority live their lives in cages, but animals are moved frequently-for space, to match with a different animal for a breeding season because it’s what the population needs genetically, for companionship for another animal (for however long), etc., When it comes to wolves, in particular, we have to consider the cost of setting animals up to bond and start a family/pack only to tear them apart later-what effect does this have on their social/mental/emotional health? Not to mention, during the breeding season, paired animals that are not supposed to breed must be separated which causes immense stress on its own. On top of the individual cost, does the animal we are “bringing back” have a habitat to come back to? This is a bigger question when debating the ethics of bringing back fully-extinct species like mammoths. Between climate change and introduced species, many habitats are changing at a rapid rate that may make it impossible for a reintroduced species to survive.

We definitely should, no question asked. Incredibly valuable to have species even with a bottleneck

I think it's good if we try to save them, so long as we do it carefully and continue taking big efforts not to make further mistakes. I'm not convinced they really provide a lot of value to the ecosystem--my best guess as to their value is their territorial and aggressive nature would help keep their lands from being swarmed by smaller opportunist pack predators--but I also don't think we will succeed in saving them. But we will undoubtedly learn a ton of valuable insight by trying.

Some people have really cool names.

it sounds like you consulted with gerd gigerenzer. this type of analysis sounds like it came straight out of How to Stay Smart in a Smart World. kudos

I love rhinos so much, please do whatever is needed to safe them

Jessi!!!! I have sooo many questions on a sci show kids! Plsssss turn on the comments!😊❤

If you bring them back it makes the ones that got poached basically worthless. They were only valuable because they are so rare. The people that own them won't let them get cloned or brought back in any way.

as much as i’d love to see the species bounce back, this feels like too extreme and risky of a situation to be pulled off well. it would take so much time to rebuild a population and by then their habitats could be so different that they either aren’t suited for them anymore or they end up becoming an “invasive” species to the newly established ecosystem. also, truly what kind of quality of life would this repopulation group have? there’s no question that they would be under constant medical and environmental stress being the first of their kind while also trying to not be the last. not to mention how expensive a project like this would be as well as (imo) extremely high risk and unpredictable. it just seems like an unfortunate situation where humans interfered too much and the consequences are clear. i think it would be more productive to let the remaining rhinos live the remainder of their lives, learn from the situation, and apply the scientific advancements to other projects

I recall reading about the death of the last male Northern White Rhino, effectively making the species Functionally Extinct. Mom found me sobbing over the newspaper, still open to the article. My instant reaction is ‘yes, let’s save them!’ But… I can see the other side. If we don’t fix the problem, how can we save them?

Do the best you , good vets doctors, scientists , man hunted rhino to extinction for fun, Man owes rhinoceri apologies and help

Do such A video on Indian lions 🦁 too it's a great story

I wish someone would do this with the Vaquita.😢

Something thats rarely brought up is that species are more than their biology. In some sense it makes bringing back an extinct species impossible because it will forever lack any behaviour and knowledge not encoded in to its genetics. Perhaps we could document enough to replicate an animals role models, but we know from raising creatures in captivity right now that this can be tricky, and those are behaviours we can still learn about from the living examples. You might still want to do it, but it seems starkly more self serving. That you are not so much resurrecting a species as it once was, we had our chance to do that through conservation, you are just replicating its physical form for your own wonder. (Though there are perhaps more complicated situations, like bringing back a species that may act as steward for a land. That has its own array of issues.)

Just do it. Learn from it and preserve some of the material. Win Win

Hi Castaneda!

I think it's possible. I don't know about the ethical questions. And I honestly think 40 years is MUCH too short a timeline for any of this... I feel like we'll need a century or two to truly set things right. Part of that is because of potential genetic trouble - after all, can we know that the genetic material we have available is "good" as it were? What if they all have greater-than-average chances for reproductive problems like our two survivors have? And there's the question of how we keep the new rhinos alive - not just safe from poachers either. The safest bet is to keep all the new stock in captivity - like they did with Whooping Cranes, kind of. And as another person pointed out, that also begs the question of who teaches these animals how to be what they ARE? Who's going to set aside and patrol territory for them? Who's paying for all this? There's just so much to untangle here. I think we DEFINITELY should continue thinking hard about this idea. There are other species we might yet save, even if it turns out we can't save these rhinos. I also think we very much should not treat IVF as a "magic fix it button," because it just isn't, won't ever be - SHOULD never be - an easy solution. I'm all for optimism in seeing the potential of scientific solutions. But they can't exist in a vacuum and we've just plain got to be more sensible, more ethical, look ahead farther - with EVERYTHING in our world.

They would start evolving at a much more rapid pace and create new species of rhino sooner than they would have otherwise. We would probably see giant or Pygmy rhinos

We do it to gain understanding and knowledge. We can learn so that when it happens To another species we will be more prepared.

One step closer to making Xenomorphs

I've not seen the video (yet), but the answer to if we should save them is already a loud yes. If nothing else, just to spite the poachers and hunters.

I think for some critically endangered species that have closely related subspecies, there needs to be the serious consideration if genetic purity that will almost certainly result in a likely nonviable population is more important than the species persisting but with some geneflow with that subspecies which makes the population stronger. This fixation on keeping subspecies pure even at the cost of that subspecies going effectively extinct is really not helpful. If those two female Northern White Rhinos were allowed to breed with a Southern back when they were still capable of reproduction, while the offspring wouldn't be pure Northern they'd at least still carry the Nothern bloodline.

I diagnose this issue with human intervention

Instead of Seven Eves, it would be Two Eves....

If you are required to 'reinvent the wheel' every time, its not really a case of 'reinventing the wheel' since the old solution isnt applicable.

Queue _Jurassic Park_ theme...

Behold, Holocene Park!

Jessie! ❤

You have to realize that, as long as the common rhino males have the same number of chromosomes, they can use their sperm to fertilize the white rhino female to produce a hybrid. The offspring will be very similar in their physiology. Remember we've done this on different dog breeds for millennia.

I am both amazed and disappointed that you went this whole video without uh doing um uh Jeff uh Goldblum um uh impression.

Maybe we can reduce poaching if rhinps by developing lab-produced 'rhino horn'. The genuine article is keratin -I sense that powdered ersatz horn would be acceptable to the shady trade in traditional medicine, as the genuine article... and at a small fraction of the price.