UPDATE - PLEASE READ *before commenting*! darko.audio/2021/12/audiolabs-6000a-play-a-christmas-tale/ 1) Got a question? Please ask it of the Darko.Audio RU-vid community (and not me) as I'm now busy making the NEXT video 2) All comments here are moderated by a third party: instagram.com/p/CTWcokaszpW/ 3) Polite comments that advance the conversation are most welcome (but no URLs, please)
I really appreciate your thoughtful comments about how a critical review can effect the employees of the company. Your in-depth discussion about the operational quirks was perfectly handled and very useful.
Having done a fair bit of mastering in my day, I can say that the gaps between tracks on an album are carefully considered and often quite intentionally set. Like music itself, the silences are as important as the sounds between. I appreciate this video very much. Thank you.
Other reviewers of this Play product didn’t even mention this issue, so thank you for bringing it up. I would look into the 6000A and add my own streamer as I hear the amp is great.
Actually, Peter it IS still an issue. Gapped playback is gapped playback no matter how small or large the gap. Perhaps you would be kind enough to re-read my update post. AND while you're there, perhaps pay closer attention to the fresh issues introduced by Transfer mode, chief among them the inability to browse for the next song or album whilst listening to the current one.
Omg thank you! I've been wondering wtf a RHCP button was for several years of your videos. Brilliant. Love it. At our home we have a remote with a little picture of Danny DeVito, available to any guest who doesn't like the song that's playing. "This is a democratic household, if you don't like the song, don't complain about it, just use da veto"
Yes, good point! Andrew’s reviews are always very good and informative. And he praised this amp but I can’t remember any comments on the gaps of the built in streamer. Maybe he didn’t try gapless albums or playllists.....
I'm 48 years old, i have worked in the hi-fi industry for 25 years and I have to say this is the most intelligent and fairest review of a product i have ever seen or read. Well done sir.
Hi John. I have a 6000A and a node 2i to get around the gaps. Works great. I did research before my purchase and glad I did. Thanks for the info. This gap issue needs to be known to anyone thinking about the 6000A play. Have a great new years !!!! Love your YT Channel.🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘Cheers from Canada 🍻🍻🍻
Hi Darko, thanks for the review. Just one little comment, the new version of the App DTS Play-FI is now "gapless", a big improvement. Thanks. Regards....
I have the 6000a Play as part of a bedroom setup. The streaming is done through a Bluesound Node. I look at it this way, the 6000a Play offers the option of streaming if I choose to use it in my ever changing gear situation. In the meantime I am using it as an amplifier which I think is excellent.
I'm glad I bought the regular 6000A instead, which I use with a Raspberry Pi 4 with HiFiBerry Digi 2 Pro as streamer. Works great. Glad I went this route. Gapless playback is a must, I completely agree with you. However I also have a Powernode here, and while it doesn't reach the sonic fidelity of the Audiolab, it comes close, and the convenience factor is so much higher with it. Plus you can easily turn it into a surround setup, which also works really well. Connection to the rear happens wireless, and the Bluesound rear speakers are good enough. So that's really tempting as well.
I could not hate my Audiolab 6000a play more than I do, even if I tried my bestest. Twice a day it changes the source, on its own. It constantly hums, and after a few hours it starts buzzing and humming. The remote has no source change function, so I can't place the damn thing further from me, to not hear it, like in the basement, two stories down, so I have to interact with it, and keep myself from smashing the dreaded thing when changing back the source. Researching the issues I found the internet to be full of the same reports with it.
Glad John finally gave some attention to the Audiolab 6000 series. Nearly bought the 6000A Play but with the lack of gapless playback went for the POWERNODE 2021 instead. I am loving it!
I bought it two weeks ago. I sent it back to the store today morning. As an amplifier is wonderful. Very nice, detailed sound. The streamer is hell... It stops playing music whenever it wants. I have a 1Gbit connection with WiFi6 routers. No issues with LAN at all. Doesn't matter - "connection lost". I tested CA CXN V2 earlier - no problems with LAN - either wired or wireless. These gaps long so much that you think that it is another connection lost. What's more, sometimes it cut some chord from songs !!! You lose 10 or 20 ms from the end of the song and the first 10-20 ms from the next song. It is a nightmare. Instead of relaxing Christmas time with music, it drove me crazy. I wanted to throw it out the window. I am sorry Audiolab. Your Amplifier 6000A is wonderful. This ... DTS Play-Fi is a disaster.
As a music producer myself, the ‘as they artist intended’ portion of this conversation is incredibly important. Im not of a generation where making vinyl was something I did, but back when CDs were how 99% of us listened to music, when making the final edits of CDs at the mastering studio, I’d take the finished version of the album home and listen closely to the cadence of the gaps, and willingly paid for another hour or two with the engineer to add a second here, or remove a second there, etc. That cadence was as important as the final mastering job to my ears and once I was happy I knew the record as a whole was ready to be heard by others. My approach is no different now, though technically speaking creating these edits and gaps is very different I’ll still play the whole album over and over again until the cadence is correct. So yes, this is important if and when people listen to complete (or partial) albums, even when there are more typical silences between tracks. Hats off to you for making a big deal out of this.
Hello John, I bought the 6000A last month for €558 and I must say that I arrived in heaven. Using a Bluesound Node as my streamer, it is a more flexible and gapless solution and you can, depending on one’s taste, choose between two dacs: either the Audiolab (which is damn good btw) or the Node (very good as well). This amplifier is simply the absolute winner when it comes to sound quality below the €1000 price point.
Just picked up an Audiolab 6000a Play on sale for $1300 USD. More than satisfied with the purchase. Since I use Spotify Connect for most of my playback (also stream Roku TV via the optical input from my TV), the gapless playback issue hasn't been an issue at all. The sound quality is indeed fantastic. DTS Playfi has been easy to use, and was easy to connect. Largest issue I had was simply getting my Wifi connected on the right network - has to be same network your phone is on (I have a guest network). Took me like 30 minutes to get wifi hashed out. No big deal. Love love love this thing. Paired with Polk S65 towers.
Thank you so much for proper testing of unit that include player. Many reviewers will simply not mention gapless playback and mandatory phone when using DTS Play-fi
You always bring new points of view to the table. Even if I didn't agree with you, I must say thank you John. You are like fresh air in the audiophile world.
Nice job Darko , I have pop the hood video review up 😃 but just the regular 6000a love mine for 2 years now 216k subscribers dang John I been with ya since 30k 😆
John, the 6000A(play) is a fine amplifier...no doubt about it. While I am not a fan of "the gaps" so to speak, I would have benefited from more critical commentary on the amplifier rather than 2/3rds of the review addressing the gap and how to deal with such.
Blue Sound Node with the non-streamer version sounds like a winner to me. Particularly if we'd heard more about the sound of the product in question for the sake of assessing symmetry with our existing spears, system, etc
still got my trusty Audiolab 8000A. Comprehensive tape record function, still sounds great. not inclined to replace it. Even has (whisper it) tone controls.
Relieved, I have one and thought you were going to slaughter it. Luckily I have not used DTS play and stick to Spotify, Sonos connect, and CD which all work extremely well - Happy New Year.
Finally someone who is honest about the biggest issue of this amp’s streaming capability. NOT supporting gapless is such a disappointment. I really don’t know why gapless support still is an issue in 2021. Software like Winamp fixed this like 20 years ago. But I am going to tryout the 6000a (non Play)
Same here with my Audiolab 6000N. The last main issue with it has finally been resolved; I'm glad I stuck with it! I'm a huge fan of the sound of Audiolab DACs.
Thank you! The difference in price here is $500 between the 6000A and the Play version. That is almost as much as a Bluesound Node, which from the sounds of things would be a more enjoyable experience.
I bought four Google Cromecast audios for 100 euros while they were still for sale. I connected them to the amplifiers through good dacs, and I now have very good streaming for all services on four different systems.
John I could not agree more. The gap thing would drive me nuts because I do frequently listen to whole albums end to end, especially those which are my personal favourites.
Regarding DTS Play-Fi, I'm using a Paradigm PWLink module that incorporates their ARC Room Correction software and Play-Fi. While the current version of Play-Fi works, I experienced the same issues with 24-192 playback glitching (or dropouts) and gaps of five or more seconds. I don't believe your network is an issue, I believe the issue is with Play-Fi. The support note on the current version indicates they're working toward gapless. However, your survey indicates that for a majority of the people polled, either gapped playback wasn't an issue or not something they were aware of. I agree that gapped playback is an issue when dealing with a product of this price and caliber. If someone wanted to stick with the 6000A Play, a better option is to ignore Play-Fi and use Bubble UPnP. Sticking with Audiolab, it's easy enough to use the 6000 with Audirvana/Roon via their remote app and take the USB output from the PC and convert it to optical/coax. The conversion can be easily handled via an inexpensive converter like the Douk Audio adapter that will output a hi-res digital stream to the Audiolab's internal DAC.
I have the 6000A (not play) and initially struggled to like it after upgrading from an Arcam A29. The Arcam just seemed more gutsy although less revealing and detailed as the 6000A. Finally I tested a Fiio external DAC which I found a lot better than the 6000A internal DAC. Taking your advice I bought a Schiit MODI 3 and finally I am happy. I have the punch and the detail. All I can say is that the 6000A is a fantastic sounding amp for the price. I even tried switching from my KEF R300 speakers to an old pair of B&W DM110 speakers and it still sounds fantastic!
John, you could not have been fairer. Really first class, as ever! I think the key here lies in definitions. I completed your survey, answering that I did not mind either way, but only because, in my mind, a gapped playback would add a 0.5 second gap! 5+ seconds would drive my completely crazy and I would have returned it if I’d have bought it. Then again, I probably would have opted for the 6000 A non-play!!
I have the 6000a play, and I don't care about streaming services, I will not pay out monthly subscriptions to various streaming services, i like my CD collection played on the matching 6000CDT, I like my vinyl collection, and I love the BT connection to my iPod playing all my collection in random with no issues what so ever. I have to agree the DTS play fi part is pretty rubbish with what I have tried to play, google music, amazon music and different radio services, never really working without issues. However the amp is just great, I know some will say why purchase the play version, well BT was one plus I knew about the DTS issues prior but I hope that maybe it will be sorted in the future and who knows what format I will be listening to then ! Love your reviews Darko, a very honest review of this amp, but I love it !!
Not Audiolabs fault? That can't be true. They decided to use this system. So while it might be DTS's problem to solve, Audiolab did choose to implement that system over Roon or Chromecast or whatever.
Audiolab are owned by IAG who acquired the rights to use DTS PlayFi in all its brands back in 2018. A commercial decision which Audiolab product designers are likely to have had little to nothing to do with but have to live with.
I’m very happy with my 6000a. Bought the 6000n streamer with it as a package deal. I only use the streamer for spotify and programmed my favorite playlists and radio stations on its 6 preset buttons. Never liked the dts playfi platform. So i can relate to your experenience. Great amp!
Thanks for a well balanced review. I have an Audiolab 6000A which I love, and a Bluesound Node (brilliant)My only conundrum is which of the two devices’ DAC to use
I had a similar dilemma but with my Quad Vena 2 Play which has the same ESS DAC as the Audiolab. To my ears the Quad DAC was a bit better but it wasn’t huge. Bluesound DAC is pretty decent. In the end I sold the Quad and went for an analogue amp so I have to use the Node DAC now.
@@thebingaling1105 Thanks. That is useful info. I’ll play about a bit more and we both have to option of getting a better quality freestanding DAC to insert in between when funds allow :)
Huge thanks for this video, I didn’t think you were going to after your podcast on it. I’m the owner of both a 6000a (non Play) and a 6000n streamer, yep. I had the 6000a paired first with Allo Boss Dac running Volumio, and whilst I really enjoyed the sound of the amp, the Boss Dac felt like a great first streamer but I wanted something sounding better. Covid and lockdown restrictions of supply meant it was hard to demo, so bought the 6000n. Used together these devices function practically the same as the 6000a Play, sonically it would be identical. I love the amp, but the Play FI software is lousy, I feel you’re being kind to it TBH. Yes the gaps are obvious all the time, but it feels laborious and clunky. Better to me than Volumio so I’ve kept it. I do mainly listen to Playlists or vinyl. BTW, Play Fi’s customer support said Gapless Playback is coming some time next year, but their updates are few and never seem to deliver much.
I can see your point. BUT my AudioLab 6000A with its CDT and paired with Acoustic Energy 300s is about as good as audio gets for £1,500. I couldn't be happier with my set up.
A) I’m glad you changed your mind on not doing a formal review on this. After listening the podcast, I thought your experience was important to share on your channel. B) When you actually showed the gapped playback, my jaw dropped. Obviously I believed you before, but actually seeing it in action kind of blew my mind.
John can’t wait for nad m10 v2 review. I hope it coming soon. Maybe with deeper explanation of changes in new model and for analogue inputs issues in previous model … merry Christmas 🎄best wishes
I have Play-Fi on a paradigm speaker that I use in my workshop and it is annoying. Definitely on your side John, and I would argue that Audiolab could be faulted here for choosing to use Play-Fi vs another solution. As you say the though not everyone is bothered by this ( Andrew Robinson choose this as one of his products of the year) and opting for the 6000A is an option. As always love the videos! Happy Holidays from Canada.
Hi. I Owen the audiolab 6000a Play. In Play-Fi you can transfer playback to bypass iPad/Phone, then you get gapless album playback and can close the phone . When you start Play-Fi press recent and you go back where you closed. But I agree Play-Fi are not perfekt. Thank you for many interesting rewievs.
Hello John, thanks for this great video. I absolutely love my 6000 cdt and 6000A play. Great sound for the money. As a, as you call it, playlist listener i don’t mind the gaps. What i don’t like is the use of DTS play-fi. IMHO this app is not very intuitive, some parts of the software are very slow. It makes you tap buttons while it would have been better to wait a few extra seconds. I made a lot of errors while using this app…even after a few months. To be honest, it almost spoiled the fun. (I don’t have Spotify), i listen to apple music using an old ATV with a toslink connection. I’m very glad you mentioned a few workarounds, thanks!! I’m looking forward to your next video 😄
I like a gap. Not all songs transition well when your listening. What I mean by that is each song has its own feel and it sets a certain mood. When a song ends you want to mentally prepare for the next song. The gap allows that mental transition.
That's fine when an album/cd is intended to have a pause between tracks but what about those works where the music is supposed to segue from one track to the next? For example classical music where one movement flows seamlessly into the next, or albums like Dark Side of the Moon or Abbey Road et al where songs flow in to each other deliberately to set a mood or feeling. That's really important to me. This isn't about removing the gaps between songs, it's about inserting them where they don't belong.
Excellent focus on something that to me too is a huge niggle! Seems the bitrate and sample rate keeps increasing (almost unnecessarily) but this fundamental issue seems to be overlooked as if it doesn't matter! I love Floyd, Waters, Billie Myers, and listening to live albums and as you say, that gap destroys the connection with the music! I guess I'm a budget audiofile and use headphone a lot to listen. There is so much low cost gear out there to allow even those on a small budget to better enjoy music, and I love that you cover DIY to high end with such careful balance to you opinions.
I'm an album listener. Some years ago I looked through a list of about 1000 CDs that I owned at that time. Roughly 10% of those CDs have one or more tracks where gapless playback would be "as the artist intended", a few of them listed in this video. My Roku Soundbridge from 2006 supports gapless playback using Apple Lossless. My Roberts Internet radios (using modules from Frontier Smart Technologies) all support FLAC playback without gaps. Of course, my Yamaha RX-AS710D is gapless as well. I honestly cannot begin to comprehend how Audiolab managed to bring this to market. To me no gapless = no sale. Every time.
Added thought... My preferred test recording for gapless testing is Robert Simpson's 9th Symphony (requires serious listening, not something for just a quick listen). First track boundary is at 19 seconds, hence great for testing. 17 tracks in total and one continous piece of music.
Well, good news is I'm a Spotify Connect person, therefore GAPLESS, yeah! Bad news is that there are 5 days left in the year and Spotify Hi-Fi is nowhere in sight...Ugh.
I think framing it as gapless vs non-gapless playback is giving the device more credit than it deserves... five seconds is more non-gapless vs non-gapless with an added delay for no good reason. I was seriously contemplating this device, but can now remove it from my list without needing to waste time driving to another city to find a place where I can demo it in person... thanks for the insightful review!
Great review as always, thanks John. It appears that some of your viewers might have misunderstood the problem somewhat. The amp itself is fantastic - and obviously if you have anything connected to it that supports gapless playback then there are no issues at all. In my case, I have the 6000A Play hooked up to my PC, so any music played on that can be done gapplessly (not a word), depending on the app I use. If you have a CD player hooked up to the amp, it will play gapless if the CD supports it, if you have a turntable hooked up to it, it will play however the vinyl is pressed, and so on. John is specifically talking about the DTS Play-Fi app and it's inability to currently play gapless albums, which I am disappointed in too. Hopefully Audiolab will take note of this and pass their comments on to DTS, so DTS can fix the app.
Another great review and as a fellow albums listener THANK YOU. Not that I’m shocked because musically we are very similar. Seems like the album concept is a lost art. Great as usual, thanks and happy holidays!
Interesting review. I have the 6000A (played through Ophidian Mambos) and it sounds incredible for the money. It is solid and simple to use. I use the streaming through wi-fi, not wired and I have had no drop outs at all. The Android version of the Play-Fi app isn't perfect but it works. I certainly don't get the gaps you are talking about. Probably about half a second at the most - generally I don't even notice it. The Windows desktop version of the app is much better and easier to use and doesn't seem to have any gaps at all. As you say though, this is all a development issue for Play-Fi and will surely be rectified in time. Regarding the amp itself it is a versatile, great sounding, good value, well built product. For everything it has to offer, I'll live with a barely noticeable half second gap! I enjoy your reviews though so keep up the good work.
Because of the podcast I knew about the gap. Didnt think I would mind it so mutch, because im more of a playlist type. But when I sit down and want to skip trough ore between songs (is that a sin?) the gap is also very annoying for me. That, and connecting via spotify connect doest always works and you need a few times for it to connect. In the morning I have little time to put on some music, and if it doenst work right away, its just another reason to put on a bleuthooth speaker because it works instant / stress free. I wanted a simple system for my gf, because if she needs to put different things on she is just gonna use her phone speaker, failing to connect will put her off using it. I paired it with KEF q950's and KC62 sub. To me it sounds fantastic. Really amazed how clear everything is, I was used to using my tv for streaming and connecting that directly into a old marantz amp. the difference is night and day. I do not regret buying it, got a deal for 600 euro and dont know a streamer dac amp combo that would do the same for me for that kind of money. The pre amp function is gonna be handy in the future if I want to connect a different power amp.
Absolutely brilliantly helpful and insightful review. To my knowledge,you’re the only reviewer who has spotted this (or at least shared it) and explained the impact. Really like the look of this amp, but the gapless issue is a real shame.
I bought an Audiolab amp decades ago, it was the same design but in black, a recommended amp in HiFi magazines, never happy with it, sold it and got an A400. Ran that for 20 years then A400X, now back to another mint A400. Never a moments unhappiness with them. The 993 of amps, solid.
Hi John interesting video this one I have the audiolab 6000A and as you suggested I have a network player for steaming and of course works great I have also used Bluetooth through the amp which also sounds great and of course no gaps but is Bluetooth to much of a drop in quality for you? The 6000A is a brilliant amp I’m running mine in the preamp mode at the moment with two power amps with speakers bi amped and sounds brilliant I’ve had audiolab for over twenty five years. Thanks for all your great video.
This is exactly why I bought a 6000a and a bluesound node instead of a 6000a play. Yes it ads up to like a $200 more than the 6000 play but all your streaming issues are solved
@@kadajawi6567 the powernode also has less inputs and no pre out, and I wanted to keep using my restored st70 as the power amp. I got the 6000a as a sort of center piece that has everything(phono, dac, preamp, speaker driver) in case I need a backup or just want to compare it to separates
Hi John -- This was a great, fair recap of your experience with the 6000A. I have had a DTS Play-Fi streamer going back to 2014, or so, and over the years have experienced all the same issues you're having. My main rig has a Bluesound Node 2i (thank goodness), but our secondary living room setup has a Play-Fi steamer. It's a bummer to use, but I put up with out of convenience (i.e. not wanting to spend additional money on this secondary system, and it still sounds good!). The stuttering stop, play, stop, play nonsense is for real though, not exclusive to your experience and local network. However, although the gapless is annoying, I do not experience 5 second intervals between tracks. Sorry to see that's happening to you. DTS Play-Fi isn't anything new. Knowing the glitchy playback and gapless-less feature one would think they'd prioritize these two issues in a software or firmware update. What do I know though?
Thank you John, those examples you put out between the two brand of tv’s made a lot of sense. I am in the process of buying a new tv, and I came to a point due to so much information that I hit a brick wall and procrastinating on a final decision. I have not bought a tv since mid 90’s! But after listening to your explanations why you chose the Samsung. I now feel that I’m a lot closer and on the right track on a purchase, so thanks again.
I recently purchased the 6000a and paired it with my Bluesound Node 2 i. With Magnepan Smg a speakers. NO issue driving them.Best sound I have heard on my set up.
Dude, you should do TED Talks for audio. I truly love your straight forward no BS, Non~I’m an audiophile genius so listen up approach. Be you & Tarun from A British Audiophile, I get a whole lot of Bang from you guys. Keep it coming.
I got one and love it. It works seamlessly with Spotify which I use a lot. I'm looking forward to Spotify's HiFi update. I'm surprised how good it sounds over bluetooth playing from my macbook - just put on a youtube video and the DAC sorts it out. S'good. The DTS Play app sounds amazing with Super Hi Res from Amazon music, but it's so much more clunky to use that I just ending playing with Spotify on my laptop - wirelessly. You can put the antennae out the way and still use it wirelessly you know.
I think that in the context of a thousand pound amp, I would change my answer to the gapless survey. The classic nine inch nails albums would all be absolutely ruined by those gaps, and with an amp that nice I'd definitely be using it for album listening. Honestly even for playlist listening those big gaps of silence seem unforgivable.
Thanks for the warning, and for the comparison about the clarity or detail found in the M10 v2. For gapless albums, my Chromecast ultra is doing it well with my wav files on my android using Poweramp! Even the included equalizer is working via WiFi, amazing.
Thank you!🙂 You saved me there, - I think I will go for the non-play version then. And the just A (and not play) version, still has bluetooth (aptx). Maybe I will be buy a separate streamer down the line. I am very excited about comparing the internal dac, with my old, Hegel HD10 dac. Cheers!
@@stephenbates5237 I'm no CD player expert, my passion is vinyl, but my CDs sound better than ever. I actually enjoy playing CDs now. I use mine with the optical Toslink to the built-in DAC in a PS Audio Sprout 100, with a pair of GR Research XLS Encore. It's a rather balanced system, but where I'd like to try the Audiolab amp. So to me the CDT has been amazing, and expanded my music universe to finally include our CDs for more critical listening.
I only use inputs and Spotify Connect, for this the product is awesome. Was able to pick up the 6000A Play during black friday for 600€ and returned my 999€ Powernode. I think the Audiolab sounds better with my 705 S2's. Yes Bluesound's OS is superior, but I don't use the accompanied app and much of its features.
I have a 6000a amp + 6000n streamer. I’m thinking of selling them and buying a Powernode. Can you describe the difference in sound quality between powernode and audiolab?🙏🏻
What John said about the 'cadence' of knowing (even subconciously) the length of the gap between tracks on a familiar album, is absolutely spot-on for me! And I have been listening to that Talking Heads album for the same number of years!
Food for thought, as I have just bought one and it is sitting in its box, waiting for my new speakers to arrive. For me, I factored in the chance that the streamer would not be good enough and that I would then have buy another streamer and connect it to the 6000A Play. Not ideal but not a huge deal either. It would seem, from your presentation that it is a DTS Play (software) issue and so there is hope that it can be addressed (partially i.e. reducing the gap, or fully - i.e. no gap) by DTS.
Personally no gapless playback is a deal-breaker for me, I can't understand why any manufacturer would still think it's ok. I use a raspberry pi with Linux Ubuntu, running bubbleupnp server and minimserver. It works well for me serving a volumio pi streamer and also my hifi streaming amp. Bubbleupnp server supports gapless playback so this arrangement might be useful to know for others. I knew nothing of pi's a year ago and this channel introduced me so thank you John.
Basically designers have got it completely wrong, should be gap less.... But at the end of day it's up to the audiolab engineers to design it's better....
Love your work John. Back in April I chose the 6000A + Raspberry Pi streamer for the exact same reasons you detail in your review. Gapless playback is a must have IMO. And I am very happy with my purchase, not just for sound but also aesthetic reasons.
